F.U. American taxpayers...AIG to give $165 mill in bonuses

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:51 pm

The gall, the nerve of these greedy motherfucks to take a handout and then reward the executives under whose watch the price of an AIG share fell to 50 CENTS!!!!

Isn't AIG 80% American taxpayer owned now? We didn't get the memo. Can't we impound or freeze all these bonuses considering they all just about lost their jobs?

Fuck their contracts....null and fucking void considering what has happened. They wouldn't have gotten a dime had AIG went under.

Bullshit!

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:08 pm

I see your point, but it still makes me sick. How about performance based contracts? Profit sharing?

That retaining the best and brightest shit doesn't fly when you consider what Japanese execs accomplish and their diminutive, by comparison, salaries they receive.

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:21 pm

R-Jack wrote:
H4ever wrote:you consider what Japanese execs accomplish and their diminutive, by comparison, salaries they receive.
So what exactly do Japanese execs accomplish that American ones fail at? I mean other than making dead hookers disappear without a trace.

Not rying to be a contrarian, but your points seem to be deeply rooted in perception.

Oh, I dunno, much better performance without golden parachute guarantees should they be an incompetent fuck on the backs of shareholders and the American taxpayer. That good enough for you?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:27 pm

So, we bailed out a company to the tune of $170 billion who are contractually obligated to pay these bonuses, regardless of performance.

That's just fucking terrific.

I wonder if our shrewd government knew about these bonuses before deciding to bail these shysters out?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090315/ap_ ... ig_bonuses

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:35 pm

War Wagon wrote:So, we bailed out a company to the tune of $170 billion who are contractually obligated to pay these bonuses, regardless of performance.

That's just fucking terrific.

I wonder if our shrewd government knew about these bonuses before deciding to bail these shysters out?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090315/ap_ ... ig_bonuses

I'm sure our government knew that corporations are no longer controlled by the shareholders but rather by hand-picked executive boards and their proxie votes which helps to explain the outrageous compensation packages.

There needs to be some fucking oversight and it needs to be right now. Let them try and pull this shit in Europe or Japan and see how fast they get laughed out of the room/ran out on a rail.

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:40 pm

R-Jack wrote:
R-Jack wrote: your points seem to be deeply rooted in perception.

H4ever wrote:much better performance (in japan)
:doh:

Try thinking things through before you go YippieKaiYa and hit submit. Please.

Yea....GM and Ford are kicking ass aren't they? My bad.

Do the math on compensation vs. performance of GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda over say...the last 15 years and get back to me.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:43 pm

From the article linked above:

"We cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff the AIG businesses, which are now being operated principally on behalf of the American taxpayers — if employees believe their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the U.S. Treasury," Liddy said.

How much more of the "best and brightest talent" would it take to run that piece of shit company further into the red?

I've got some compensation for you shitdicks. You're fired. No severance, no bonus, pack your shit and get the fuck out of my face.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:49 pm

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Sincerely,
Boeing

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:02 pm

R-Jack wrote:
H4ever wrote: Yea....GM and Ford are kicking ass aren't they? My bad.

Do the math on compensation vs. performance of GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda over say...the last 15 years and get back to me.
OK, so your entire borad brush for the performance of all Japanese executives is a couple of car companies and their performance in America?

once again.

R-Jack wrote: your points seem to be deeply rooted in perception.

Even though your strawman doesn't have a flimsy leg to stand on...why don't you jam him up your ass and get back to the topic. I'm not going to diagram what you already know.

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:09 pm

R-Jack wrote:
War Wagon wrote:I've got some compensation for you shitdicks. You're fired. No severance, no bonus, pack your shit and get the fuck out of my face.
Great. Love it. I'll even RACK it.

If it was that simple and the ensuing lawsuits would not cost TAXPAYERS a shitload of money, I be all for it in the case of AIG.

Simple. Dismiss with prejudice any and all lawsuits by execs regarding lost compensation if they worked for a company that they systematically raped and then later received a government bailout.

That could be arranged through congress. Fuck em. If it's okay to roll back pensions , give away the store under their watch, and otherwise plunder shareholders, then fuck them and their contracts.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:13 pm

R-Jack wrote: If it was that simple and the ensuing lawsuits would not cost TAXPAYERS a shitload of money, I be all for it in the case of AIG.

What the hell, we're already on the hook for $170 bil...

It'd be worth it. The cases could drag through the court system for months or years. Meantime, those execs don't get a dime, forcing them to give up that vacation beachfront condo or exclusive country club golf membership.

"Oh, you were counting on this bonus to fund your lavish lifestyle? Tough shit, go fuck yourself".

If they sue and win, oh well. At least those fucks had to actually work to earn that money.

Jerkovich · Post by **Jerkovich** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:31 pm

Stan Fukkken Pickle · Post by **Stan Fukkken Pickle** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:31 pm

Why aren't people going to jail over this shite?

Barney "Banking Queen" Franks?
Christopher Dodds?
Maxine Waters?
The black dude from Fannie Mae?
Half the Senate?
Half the Congress?
Half of Wall Street?

Somebody tell me, WTF is going on here? With all the corruption, scandal and outcry from the general public why isn't anybody going to jail?

Everyday I'm praying that tens of thousands of American citizens armed with pitch forks and torches storm the Bastille and drag scoundrels to the public square where they will face swift justice square at the hands of a sharply bladed guillotine.

If the French can do it....WHY CAN'T WE! :brad:

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:42 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That deserves a RACK!

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:53 pm

Stan Fukkken Pickle wrote:Why aren't people going to jail over this shite?

Barney "Banking Queen" Franks?
Christopher Dodds?
Maxine Waters?
The black dude from Fannie Mae?
Half the Senate?
Half the Congress?
Half of Wall Street?

Somebody tell me, WTF is going on here? With all the corruption, scandal and outcry from the general public why isn't anybody going to jail?

Everyday I'm praying that tens of thousands of American citizens armed with pitch forks and torches storm the Bastille and drag scoundrels to the public square where they will face swift justice square at the hands of a sharply bladed guillotine.

If the French can do it....WHY CAN'T WE! :brad:

If things keep going the way they have been for the last twenty five years or so, your wish might come true.

But as they say....be careful what you wish for, as it might come true (and it wouldn't necessarily be the dems who would be the focus of the public's ire).

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:00 pm

It seems that every week we're told of some company (that had received bailout money) that has these grand plans of paying out millions in bonuses or for corporate retreats/parties, etc. They're still wallowing in the fat cat mentality that they're entitled to lavish bonuses and perks regardless of their corporation's dismal performance. They can't seem to come to terms with their new reality and it's apparent they just don't get it.

I was against bailouts in the first place and felt that financial and economic Darwinism should work its course. I understand there are serious repercussions from the likes of AIG, GM and Chrysler going kaput. There are also serious repercussions from letting them piss through a few hundred billion. It's very apparent to me that the bailouts just aren't working for those companies as they come seeking another handout a couple of months after burning through the tens of billions that was supposed to have already steered them back on course. How much longer will we continue to handout money to these companies that seem to not be viable in anyway, shape or form? It just isn't working. Cut our losses and move on.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:36 pm

H4ever wrote: Simple. Dismiss with prejudice any and all lawsuits by execs regarding lost compensation if they worked for a company that they systematically raped and then later received a government bailout.

That could be arranged through congress. Fuck em. If it's okay to roll back pensions , give away the store under their watch, and otherwise plunder shareholders, then fuck them and their contracts.

Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward out front should have told you that's a stupid idea.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:40 pm

R-Jack taking names as usual? Check.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:41 pm

There was a simple answer to this.

Let the companies fall flat on their faces.

After the dust cleared in bankruptcy court , these execs could get in line behind the rest of te creditors.

Now it ain't so simple. "We" have handed over bazillions and told them to get on with running their companies.

They have.

So there really ain't a god damn thing we can do about it.

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:53 pm

Rack Fu wrote:It seems that every week we're told of some company (that had received bailout money) that has these grand plans of paying out millions in bonuses or for corporate retreats/parties, etc. They're still wallowing in the fat cat mentality that they're entitled to lavish bonuses and perks regardless of their corporation's dismal performance. They can't seem to come to terms with their new reality and it's apparent they just don't get it.

I was against bailouts in the first place and felt that financial and economic Darwinism should work its course. I understand there are serious repercussions from the likes of AIG, GM and Chrysler going kaput. There are also serious repercussions from letting them piss through a few hundred billion. It's very apparent to me that the bailouts just aren't working for those companies as they come seeking another handout a couple of months after burning through the tens of billions that was supposed to have already steered them back on course. How much longer will we continue to handout money to these companies that seem to not be viable in anyway, shape or form? It just isn't working. Cut our losses and move on.

^^^^Rack that. You give a group of miserably failed corporate crooks taxpayer money to wipe their chins, they say thank you by business-as-usual outrageous antics, and they turn around and ask for more money.

Predictable.

They now regard taxpayer bailout money as a form of income and go shopping for corporate jets and third and fourth summer homes.

Fuck em. Eat the rich. Shareholders should lead the charge when it comes time to be French for a day.

All they are doing is lending credibility to the socialist movement. And do they give a fuck? They will.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:43 am

I'm listening to Paul Harvey (a tribute replayed on NPR) read this now.

http://thereaganwing.wordpress.com/2007 ... ependence/

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as
traitors, and tortured before they died.

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.

Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary
Army; another had two sons captured.

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or
hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their
fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they?

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.

Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated.

But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and
trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the
British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of
Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward,
Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson JR, noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife’s bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart.

Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution.

These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing
ruffians.

They were soft-spoken men of means and
education. They had security, but they valued
liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and
unwavering, they pledged: “For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.” They gave you and me a free and independent America.

The history books never told you a lot about what
happened in the Revolutionary War.

We didn’t fight just the British.

We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government!

Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn’t. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It’s not much to ask for the price they paid.

Remember: freedom is never free!

Maybe if people like that were in congress today, people like the "robber baron" executives would also have some honor, integrity, and sense of "Country First".

But we live in an age of entitlement. Clearly, these men were led to believe, by somebody that they were entitled to their compensation. It's just difficult for me to sympathize with their disappointment and not take umbrage at their umbrage, in light of the millions of retirement plans suffering, the countless layoffs of employees who were about to retire but now cannot because of the market, and the countless other Americans suffering at the hands of decisions made by these men and their tormentors on the Hill.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:23 am

The whole thing or just the 5 being tortured and killed ?

The author was a bit free with summing events.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp

However, the overall price paid is not false, agree ?

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:47 am

Tom In VA wrote:The whole thing or just the 5 being tortured and killed ?

The author was a bit free with summing events.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp

However, the overall price paid is not false, agree ?

The execs at AIG don't deserve to breath the same air those men nor that you, I, and any honest hard-working American breathes. That much is entirely true.

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:28 am

H4ever wrote:
They now regard taxpayer bailout money as a form of income

That's exactly what's going on and it's sickening. It's not surplus money to be used for their every whim. It's simply money to be used for their operational survival. If I'm on food stamps, I'm not buying filet mignon, Cristal and truffles. I'm buying basic necessities. Paying $165 million to a bunch of shitheads for leading you to a $99 billion loss in one year is just ludicrous. In what bizarro world does that make sense?

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:27 pm

Why would you be on food stamps? Are bribes shrinking along with the economy?

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:27 pm

mvscal wrote:
NOBODY* is "too big to fail."

*unless they make enormous campaign contributions and/or pay bribes and/or kickbacks. Can't have them failing now, can we?

-sin
Politicians

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:03 pm

mvscal wrote: NOBODY is "too big to fail." There is already a legal remedy for failure in the private sector. It's called bankruptcy. Failure is a vital and necessary component of freedom. It applies to markets as well as individuals.

Exactly..the bullshit argument that if AIG failed it would take down the system was complete bullshit. Even with the bad oversight taking place, no way in hell would Justice have let them get that big before busting them up..simply imfuckingpossible..for one company to take down the entire system...Chicken Little was heard real well that week..

Now we see GM getting religion and saying.." Hey maybe we will make it...." Duh..Chapter 11 was there..just waiting for them...the new business model would have been required..and the markets would have reacted on the basis of one mismanaged car builder..fuck them

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:08 pm

yeah, I'm positive that if McCain had been elected, those AIG bonuses and Caterpiller layoffs would have never happened....

and save the "McCain wouldn't have bailed them out" rhetoric, because that's flat out horseshit and you know it.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:03 pm

Derron wrote: the bullshit argument that if AIG failed it would take down the system was complete bullshit.

Bullshit or not, at this point, I'm thinking that taking down the "system" would be a good thing.

simply imfuckingpossible..for one company to take down the entire system...

It wasn't just one company.

AIG was the biggest and last in a long line of dominoes who were all inter-connected.

Bear Stearns
Lehman Brothers
Wachovia
Wells Fargo
Citi-group
Bank of America

The list goes on. What fucked AIG more than any other reason is that they provided PMI on the numerous sub-prime mortgages, invested in heavily by the above mentioned companies, that went south when adjustable interest rate loans reset.

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:16 pm

who here called my name?

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:24 pm

War Wagon wrote:
Bullshit or not, at this point, I'm thinking that taking down the "system" would be a good thing.

simply imfuckingpossible..for one company to take down the entire system...
It wasn't just one company.

AIG was the biggest and last in a long line of dominoes who were all inter-connected.

Bear Stearns
Lehman Brothers
Wachovia
Wells Fargo
Citi-group
Bank of America

The list goes on. What fucked AIG more than any other reason is that they provided PMI on the numerous sub-prime mortgages, invested in heavily by the above mentioned companies, that went south when adjustable interest rate loans reset.

So explain to me how that stellar group of companies and the situation they are all in now is better than having them all in Chapter 11....or 13 for that matter...the US moronic governement would be in a better position than they are now..better cash position, no stakes in what are now basically penny stock companies..AIG could have went down, the other companies would have taken a hit, the Feds probably would have had to put some money in there, but not what they did in the way they did it, and the amounts they did it in..

Mother fuckin AIG paid off all the off shore banks before anything else..fuck them ...let them fail..the government could have propped them up afterwards for a hell of a lot less..

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:43 pm

In hindsight, Derron, I don't disagree with any of that.

I'll admit that last fall I thought a bailout was necessary and that it might actually help the economy. I was waaay wrong... all it did was enable these dumbfucks to survive on life support a few months longer (and scam their bonuses), while they continue to hold their hand out to Uncle Sam.

Fool me once...

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:54 pm

mvscal wrote:McWho? What does he have to do with any of this? In any event, he wasn't the one running around filling the heads of morons with "Hope and Change."

How's that workin out for ya, by the way? Diggin the "new" way of taking care of business in Washington?

I would have liked to have seen exactly what the Republicans answer to this fucking nightmare would have been....oh, that's right you're solution is to simply let them fail...the only problem with that is not only do they fail, but they take a shit load of other companies/finanical entities with them and put thousands, no tens of thousands out of work

what then?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:15 pm

Felix wrote:oh, that's right you're solution is to simply let them fail...the only problem with that is not only do they fail, but they take a shit load of other companies/finanical entities with them and put thousands, no tens of thousands out of work

And that's different than what we have now in what way?

Just had another round of layoffs at my company. The last 60 survivors have now been culled to 32. It's getting close to turn off the lights, the party is over. If you're not directly engaged with producing revenue, which means shippable products, you are expendable. Thankfully, I still rememeber how to run those metal fabricating machines i used to operate 15 years ago, or I'd be SOL too.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:25 pm

Cut him some slack, MV. I liked how he called out the AIG people who accepted the bonuses to off themselves.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:11 am

mvscal wrote: You are assuming facts not in evidence. In case you haven't noticed, they're failing even with the bailout and it hasn't exactly been Armeggedon here. The only thing the bailout has done is throw good money after bad.

I'm not assuming anything...it's a fact that AIG is not a single corporation, but a conglomerate of different business entities-the reason for the bailout was not to prop up a shitload of overpaid executives, it was initiated to allow the drones that work there to keep their jobs...what do you think is going to happen to the unemployment claims when you put that many people out on the street...in reality, you're going to pay for it one way or the other...

Bad business MUST be permitted to fail. That is the way the market corrects itself. That is how business practices evolve and improve. I understand that's some pretty tough, fucking medicine for a lot of people, but that's just the way it goes.

On that we agree...the only problem in this case is that you'd punishing thousands for the egregious behavior of a few...the douchecanoes that ran that company into the ground should be put in jail for their reckless business practices...but how many countless thousands are going to be paying for their actions if we let them fail?

Again the topic of discussion here is not what the Republicans might have done, but what the Democrats actually did.

the question is completely relevant...it goes to: what do you do with the thousands that will be out of work? There certainly isn't anyplace to put them except on the welfare lines, because you simply cannot create enough jobs to absorb that many unemployed, especially in these economic times....so, do you try and help AIG become economically viable again, or do you have those thousands of people collecting unemployment? I'm sure that question came up

one way or the other, you and I are going to be footing the bill.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:36 am

War Wagon wrote:
Felix wrote:oh, that's right you're solution is to simply let them fail...the only problem with that is not only do they fail, but they take a shit load of other companies/finanical entities with them and put thousands, no tens of thousands out of work
And that's different than what we have now in what way?

Just had another round of layoffs at my company. The last 60 survivors have now been culled to 32. It's getting close to turn off the lights, the party is over. If you're not directly engaged with producing revenue, which means shippable products, you are expendable. Thankfully, I still rememeber how to run those metal fabricating machines i used to operate 15 years ago, or I'd be SOL too.

Exactly...Felix burned his hand on his crack pipe it looks like....Those companies gutted themselves, since they were probably, no ....they were way fat on drones anyway....nothing like a good old bloodletting to let you determine if your business model is solid...those companies could have 11'nd their way out a lot cheaper than the bailout...you think AIG did not leave more than a few companies / public agencies holding the bag after the bailout (s)?

Newsflash..stimulus money would have worked a lot better and went muccchhh farther if it did not go to pay off the bad debts of really fucked up companies..the bad debt that was generally contrived debt anyway...bad debt is bad debt..its money gone forfuckingever....

I will venture to say that if those companies had reorganized under an 11, more people would be working for them, they would be producing more GDP than they are now, instead of wallowing in their own shit waiting for the next fuck up to take them out. They might have even bee able to alter their business model to where they could make money again ? If they could not 11 their way out of it, then they fucking fail..end of story..and if your so fucked up that you can't 11 your way out of that, at that corporate level you were toast anyway a long time ago anyway.

Trim off the next rock and spark it up there Felix..you might get another brilliant brain flash..

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:43 am

Looks like GreenJeans works for AIG in some fashion, thus his concern with those poor, innocent paper pushers who in reality don't produce a damn thing other than bad debt.

Clean out your desk.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:24 am

mvscal wrote:
That's a personal problem.

no, that's your and my problem, whether you want to acknowledge it or not....

and actually no, I'm not in favor of bailing out the fucking crooks that ran the company into the ground...my concerns lie more with economic impact and the ancillary fallout from a conglomerate of that size failing

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:52 am

Felix wrote:
mvscal wrote:
That's a personal problem.
no, that's your and my problem, whether you want to acknowledge it or not....

and actually no, I'm not in favor of bailing out the fucking crooks that ran the company into the ground...my concerns lie more with economic impact and the ancillary fallout from a conglomerate of that size failing

So, we bailout a few thousand low-mid level paper shuffling folks simply because they aren't right at the top of this ponzi scheme?

Just so long as we have board member's heads on a pike?

Yeah, that's pretty much the lib's playbook right there. Your OK. I'm OK. Now let's go find some rich dude and string him the fukk up!!!!!!

Yeah, that'll fix everything.

It's like others here have said. There are sections of this conglomerate that are doing OK. I write a fukking check to those bastards every few months or so for insurance. I assume that section of this monster is still working. A good sect. 11 house cleaning would have left it functioning, as a smaller company. All those innocent drones working in that section would still have a yob. They might not have had big fat bonuses as the company that promised them no longer existed, but, too fukking bad. You, me and our kids and grandkids would have a shitload less debt.

Instead, that fukking monster still exists....on our dime. And you think a few hacks in DC that allowed this shit to get out of hand in the first place are suited to keep it under control?

Like wags said, "fool me once...."