Second round games thread

[King Crimson]

good games today with OSU-Pitt, Mizzou-Marquette, USC-MSU, and hopefully Siena-Ville.

[Screw_Michigan]

RACK Siena. That was a fantastic game.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Damn, most of the heavy hitters are getting bigtime scares. Someone is going to go down soon.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Yeah, I knew that was coming.

[.m2]

Who Would Have Guessed/Predicted...


The only Pac10 team out of six to make the Sweet 16 is the lowest ranked and lowest seeded AZ Wildcats.

With 13 losses this season, a mediocre RPI, they lost 5 of their last 6 during the season, lost in the first round of Pac-10 tourney, etc, etc.

Very strange!

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I had Zona beating Cle St to make it to the Sweet 16. But I also had ASU marching on.

[Screw_Michigan]

Zona should have never made the tourney, but oh well.

[M Club]

Very strange!

hardly. they were given a toss up in the first round and a french kiss from jesus in the second. every other pac team in the second round drew a team that was, for the most part, better.

[Rack Fu]

Nice preparation by Sendeck. It was like they've never seen a zone before.

Teams in the Big East (especially the other elite teams) can deal with the 'Cuse zone because they've seen it a hundred times. Most teams don't see that kind of D, and it's hard to prep for. The 'Cuse runs the 2-3 better than any team in college basketball. If OU can hit some 3's, spread the zone and open things up for Griffin, they can easily win this game. Play like they've never seen the 2-3 like most teams do and the 'Cuse wins this.

[King Crimson]

If OU can hit some 3's

Survey says not likely. Hope so though.

that's the story (along with a sidenote to transition D and FT shooting, in my book). the other thing about this OU team is they will play great D 30 seconds in to the shot clock and give up a wide open look.

Having watched the OU-UM game and seeing posts here about the "star calls" and "blocking out"....and reading a Free Press article with quotes from Beilein....i can't really accept that the dominant "story" of that game was Blake Griffin "getting away with hard fouls" while the gutty, coached to box out and play straight up UM defenders punished unfairly. Griffin was mugged, particularly in the first half. he ends up on the ground or bleeding more than a couple times. I'm not saying it doesn't go both ways, but the last thing i want to hear is a Big 10 team complain about physical play. I COULD see UM fan being upset about the T call on the UM bench, that was a little iffy.

in the early 2000's the Big XII was a VERY physical league with Barnes, Sampson, Knight, Sutton...etc. the NCAA is officiated differently than league play. Kelvin's teams failed to make that adjustment a lot. and lost to teams like Indiana State and UW-Milwaukee. because that hand check 30 feet from the basket is called a foul. in Big XII play...they let it go.

[M Club]

i presumed it a given that oklahoma flat out beat michigan when i brought up a couple ridiculous calls. in the context of an entire game they were frustrating, not the reason ou won. michigan lost the game the last five of the first half and first five of the second. in the first they should have pushed their lead even further, but running the fast break without manny is a bit precarious [though more so when he is involved...charge!] for them. and then opening up the second the way they did...well.

stars often get the call because they're simply better and other players have to foul to keep pace. and both teams get away with their fair share of hacks and hand checks. and the refs have to deal with griffen in that shaq sort of way where they have to maintain a balance between allowing physical play and the fact it's not his fault he's an athletic specimen and the guy guarding him has gout. that said, it's still infuriating to have one of our better players sit on the bench because he boxed out correctly, or a head scratcher that novak was called for a foul for getting thrown out of griffen's way so he could get a lay up and flex his muscles.

physical play in the big ten is overrated. all "physical" means is that the refs never call fouls till late in the game when they've all of a sudden decided diving for a loose ball is a flagrant.

[King Crimson]

stars often get the call because they're simply better and other players have to foul to keep pace. and both teams get away with their fair share of hacks and hand checks. and the refs have to deal with griffen in that shaq sort of way where they have to maintain a balance between allowing physical play and the fact it's not his fault he's an athletic specimen and the guy guarding him has gout. that said, it's still infuriating to have one of our better players sit on the bench because he boxed out correctly, or a head scratcher that novak was called for a foul for getting thrown out of griffen's way so he could get a lay up and flex his muscles.

physical play in the big ten is overrated. all "physical" means is that the refs never call fouls till late in the game when they've all of a sudden decided diving for a loose ball is a flagrant.

i just didn't see the game the way you did. so, your argument your best player boxed out correctly (c'mon?) all 4 times to get into foul trouble? UM p.layed some dirty ball....really. double teams, triple teams....lot of fouls there.

if anything, UM pushing the ball made OU play the way it did in the middle parts of the season....when they attacked the rim and got easy buckets. the first 6-8 minutes of the first half. that was an OU team Sooner fan hadn't seen in 6 weeks. I don't know if we'll see it again.

on the "flex" thing....can join the classless OU club with Harvdog and Austin Bill....who forget "Mister Texas" Major Applewhite shooting the bird at OU fans (RRS 99) and CU fans (01) or Desmond Howard's Heisman pose....if you want the higher ground?

[Louis Cyphre]

The hole in SU's zone is right around the FT line. If you have a forward that can consistently hit shots from there, SU will collapse on it, opening thing up underneath or on the perimeter.

[M Club]

i just didn't see the game the way you did. so, your argument your best player boxed out correctly (c'mon?) all 4 times to get into foul trouble? UM p.layed some dirty ball....really. double teams, triple teams....lot of fouls there.

if anything, UM pushing the ball made OU play the way it did in the middle parts of the season....when they attacked the rim and got easy buckets. the first 6-8 minutes of the first half. that was an OU team Sooner fan hadn't seen in 6 weeks. I don't know if we'll see it again.

on the "flex" thing....can join the classless OU club with Harvdog and Austin Bill....who forget "Mister Texas" Major Applewhite shooting the bird at OU fans (RRS 99) and CU fans (01) or Desmond Howard's Heisman pose....if you want the higher ground?

i'm not arguing at all about all four fouls, or whatever. i'm saying that i was in the midst of thinking, "wow, this guy gets a lot of calls," when the refs pulled the equivalent of giving someone first base because he stood on home plate and took an 0-2 pitch to the gut. as for flexing, selah. i don't care. i think it would have been more warranted after the first half dunk where novak[?] got to smell his nutz rather than the one he threw the little guy aside, dunked, and the ref called a foul so he could pose instead of running down the court. i've actually defended his flexing on a michigan board:

half you hypocritical wankers would be massaging his balls if he were on our team. i'm sure you took the same self-righteous stance while watching the fab five rip through their tournaments as well. the flexing wasn't pathetic and sickening, either. nearly every time he scored he ran down the court to play defense, but even then you were probably bitching about what a prick he was for dunking. "if he had any class he would have just laid it up." then michigan cut the lead down to five and griffen responded with a few tough shots. omg, he demonstrated some theatrics after making a shot and having a foul called! i've never seen that before. and keep wishing he turns into an oden. his legs are of equal length, and he's going to dominate in the nba.

the oden comment is in response to someone saying he couldn't wait till griffen went to the nba to become a bust.

[King Crimson]

the "pose" didn't come after the dunk. it was two UM players leaning into him, and he scored off the backboard after them leaning on him (eerrrrrr, i mean playing great,fundamental defense).

i'm not a big fan of the pose, but to take the "class" thing too seriously from UM fan who was just as likely jumping up and down for Desmond Howard. I'm not going to accept this from UM fan.

[M Club]

i'm not a big fan of the pose, but to take the "class" thing too seriously from UM fan who was just as likely jumping up and down for Desmond Howard. I'm not going to accept this from UM fan.

really? i'd read what i wrote again. i'm not criticizing anyone for lack of class. i really have no idea why michigan fans - well, aside from losing - are all over griffen for the the flex thing. it wasn't that egregious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOgOpKqQjb4

it's around 2.13 of that clip, right after he muscles through novak. the smell-my-nutz dunk is at 0.28, and he dunked on llp, not novak.

[King Crimson]

The hole in SU's zone is right around the FT line. If you have a forward that can consistently hit shots from there, SU will collapse on it, opening thing up underneath or on the perimeter.

that's the story of the 2-3. I don't know if OU has that guy since they like to put Blake on the high post and Taylor (who ought to be able to make the FT J--but i'm not sure i'd put the game in his hands that way)....on the low post.

[King Crimson]

i'd like to see Warren penetrate in that space and kick or score. my last memory of the 2-3 was 03 with OU passing the ball back and forth at about the time line unable to start the offense until there was about 10 seconds left on the shot clock.

I'd also like to see OU attack the rim in transition which was the trademark December-February. that's the other way you beat the zone. before they set up.

[M Club]

it's not his fault he's an athletic specimen and the guy guarding him has gout.

:D

My main beef was that you seemed in your first post to be claiming that the whole game was officiated in a manner to give OU a clear advantage. Doesn't seem to be what you were saying. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

I thought there were plenty of times where Blake DID get hacked and it wasn't called. I'll concede that on the play before he flexed that was a somewhat iffy call-I don't necessarily think Blake jumped into them, but I'm also not sure what else the Michigan defenders could have done differently there other than back off. Sometimes when you play tight defense a call goes against you. To Blake's credit, he DID power through a double team there.

The flex probably wasn't the most mature thing in the world. Then again, the dude's been taking a bunch of punishment and he's only 19. Cut him a LITTLE slack. Which you appear to be doing.

i don't think the game was officiated to give OU the advantage, just griffin... but seriously, my points of contention:

* ou won fair and square.
* calling every hack would result in basketball becoming handball. the calls tend to even out.
* the only gripe i ever have with officials is inconsistency. or when the dude calling my rec league game is talking to someone on the other court, per last night. unfortunately for michigan, our player capable of getting similar calls as griffen wasn't very aggressive, though it's hard to criticize sims' poor tournament considering we rode his back into the ncca's.
* also, when they make up calls. i never knew a charging call resulted in free throws.
* the flex was fine. i was just annoyed at the foul that gave him his stage for the theatrics. otherwise, they're good for bball. it's not like he was taunting, and it happened once, not every time he scored.
* sims boxed out.

[M Club]

oh.

i'm probably like most people who would like to see the nba half-circle thing imported to cbb. once you give up enough real estate it's over, and the player driving should be allowed to finish rather than wonder whose dick he's going to land on.