Van the Man

[Mikey]

I think I just tasted part of my breakfast again.

:?

[Van]

I think I just tasted part of my breakfast again.

:?

Really, that raises a good point. How does trev look, with bed head? Does she serve a mean omelette?

[LTS TRN 2]

Van, are you pretending to be a guitarist now? Your inane take on early Jeff Beck and Hendrix reveals a wankin' wannabe. The fact that you honestly think the Trower vids are really good makes this clear. What, you can't hear that he's completely copying SRV? Or you're ignoring that his real early corallary was David Gilmour, not Hendrix at all. And that Beck and Hendrix are so completely different--but not for the (non) reasons you offer. Jimi was essentially rhythmic? You're clueless and based on your takes I'll bet you suck ass on guitar.

[Van]

Van, are you pretending to be a guitarist now?

Is this somehow news to you, after all this time?

Newsflash, Nick: mvscal's into military history, Pikkkle isn't a big fan "of the coloreds" and the middle east is a bit of a political sore spot.

Am I a "guitarist," per se? No. To me, a guitarist is one who makes his full time living playing guitar. I'm merely a guitar hobbyist, in the same way that you're a psychotic Muslim extremist apologist hobbyist.

Your inane take on early Jeff Beck and Hendrix reveals a wankin' wannabe.

It reveals an actual understanding of where they were both at as guitar players, at the time. I notice you didn't actually attempt to refute any of it.

What, no Al Jazeera links to try to prove that they weren't similar guitarists, back in 1967?

The fact that you honestly think the Trower vids are really good makes this clear.

"Really good," compared to what? Compared to the best of Beck, or Hendrix, or SRV? Of course not.

Link me up to where I said they were.

"Really good," compared to the Eric Burdon clip, which is what prompted me to post them? Yeah, they are.

What, you can't hear that he's completely copying SRV?

What, you can't hear that he's playing the same exact shit he played before SRV even came into the public's awareness?

SRV was still an unknown twenty year old in '74, when "Bridge Of Sighs" came out, and Trower is still playing all those old pieces the same as he ever did; practically note for note, with the same basic gear.

Are you retarded, or just bad with calenders?

Or you're ignoring that his real early corallary was David Gilmour, not Hendrix at all.

You're the one who claimed he was a Hendrix/SRV imitation, not me, you idiot. I said he bore only a passing resemblance to "Band Of Gypseys" era Hendrix, and that he obviously predated SRV.

And that Beck and Hendrix are so completely different--but not for the (non) reasons you offer.

I'm talking in the earliest days, not in later years. You said Beck and Hendrix never played or sounded at all similar, which is just nonsense.

They both had the same blues background. Beck had some additional Chuck Berry, Cliff Gallup, Gene Vincent and Scottie Moore rockabilly influences and Hendrix was more into R&B, but their earliest tones were damn similar, even despite Beck's use of an Esquire, vs Hendrix with his Strat. They used the same basic fuzzbox, with the same Marshall heads, and the same basic blues phrasing.

Beck was even still using a pick then, almost exclusively.

It wasn't until The Jeff Beck Group that he really began to veer away from the blues, and more towards the metal/fusion realm. Once he bailed on his Fenders and went to the Les Paul, he was firmly in fusion territory...which is precisely where most people feel Hendrix would've ended up heading, had he lived.

In the earliest days, though, hell yeah, he and Jimi sounded quite similar. They weren't musical twins or anything, but they were much more similar than they would be by the time Wired or Blow By Blow came around, much less things like Flash or Guitar Shop.

Jimi was essentially rhythmic?

I didn't say "essentially," I said he was much more into rhythm guitar than Beck. There's no disputing this. Often times, Beck couldn't even be arsed to play rhythm guitar.

Beck and Clapton barely even cared about rhythm guitar, in the early days. Hendrix always cared about it. Hendrix came up playing with R&B bands like Sly & The Family Stone, on the Chittlin' Circuit, plus he spent time playing with Billy Cox; he damn well grew up on rhythm guitar. He didn't just see it as filler between solos, the way a young Beck, Clapton or Blackmore did.

Are you trying to say Hendrix didn't focus more attention on rhythm guitar than Beck, in the early days???

You can't be serious.

[RadioFan]

RACK Van.

[LTS TRN 2]

True, you were comparing the Trower wanking with the Burdon trainwreck, but consider that Burdon once was first rate while Trower has always been a joke, just a one key Hendrix copier.And you're missing the point entirely with Beck and Jimi. The world of a difference was not only acid (still a huge factor) but that Jimi was an actual, or authentic, r&b player, unlike Beck who while a true convert of Blues was entirely different. And as far as Jimi's "rhythm" playing, here you reveal that you've not only missed the point, you've missed the train entirely. Rhythm is lead (and vice versa), as Joe Pass demonstrates. And your definition of a guitarist in the first place is bogus. You're actually comparing a professional and an amateur, and neither of these actually denotes whether the player is a "real" guitarist or not. And lay off the muzzies, without them Israel would have to get a job.

[Van]

True, you were comparing the Trower wanking with the Burdon trainwreck

Case closed.

but consider that Burdon once was first rate

No, he wasn't. At his peak, he was never more than a mid level blue eyed soul wannabe. He wasn't even Stevie Winwood, much less Van Morrison...much less Ray Charles.

while Trower has always been a joke, just a one key Hendrix copier.

Goddammit, now wait a minute! Is he an SRV copier, a Hendrix copier or a Gilmour copier?

I'm gonna havta start using a pencil for my scorecard.

And you're missing the point entirely with Beck and Jimi.

How can I be?? You've yet to make one! All you've done is tell me I'm wrong, without offering up anything in refutation.

You've offered zero specifics, and zero clarifications.

The world of a difference was not only acid (still a huge factor) but that Jimi was an actual, or authentic, r&b player, unlike Beck who while a true convert of Blues was entirely different.

Ultimately, yes. Initially, they were much more similar, at least when it came to soloing.

In terms of song structure, yes, they were always different. Beck was never an R&B player, not unless you wish to count some of his techno R&B meanderings on something like Flash, or maybe his "People Get Ready" work with Rod Stewart. (Which was brilliant.)

Hendrix was just plain a better song writer, which lent itself more to the R&B genre. Beck was always more of a guitar instrumentalist, at heart.

Still, Beck was offered the Rolling Stones gig, which would've forced him to play a buttload of R&B, and while he would've chafed at the constraints of that type of band he could've pulled it off, at least for awhile.

And as far as Jimi's "rhythm" playing, here you reveal that you've not only missed the point, you've missed the train entirely. Rhythm is lead (and vice versa), as Joe Pass demonstrates.

Stanley Jordan demonstrates it even better.

Still, c'mon, no, "rhythm isn't lead, and vice versa," not when there's a lead vocal occupying the "lead" space.

You can't be doing "lead rhythm and lead guitar, or vice versa" in the middle of the vocal section of "Little Wing" or "Hey Joe."

Christ, don't even begin to compare jazz comping and jazz lead playing with rhythm guitar playing in an R&B or rock setting.

Ike would've kicked your ass right off the tour bus.

And your definition of a guitarist in the first place is bogus.

Who cares? It's my definition. I don't claim it to be official, or universal. I don't consider myself to be a guitarist, because I'm merely an amatuer...a hobbyist.

If you do, fine. I don't. I realize the literal definition of "guitarist" is merely "one who plays the guitar," but just because someone paints their house or changes the tire on their car I don't consider them to be a painter or a mechanic.

You're actually comparing a professional and an amateur, and neither of these actually denotes whether the player is a "real" guitarist or not.

Of course not. It's just how I categorize guitar players. There are people who play guitar, like myself, and there are people who are guitarists, and those are the pros.

Okay, I'll back off that definition, a little. If a person is a part time pro, meaning they do get paid to play, I'll still consider them to be a guitarist. They don't have to earn their entire living from it.

That would even include street musicians. If a guy is out there on Fisherman's Wharf, guitar case open, and he's earning himself $50 or whatever by playing for tips, yeah, he's a guitar player.

I've actually done that, only in L.A., and I guess during that period of time I did consider myself to be a guitarist, though it wasn't a full time gig.

Anyway, again, sticking a thermometer in your daughter's mouth and applying a soothing salve to her skinned knee doesn't make you a doctor.

And lay off the muzzies, without them Israel would have to get a job.

:D

[Tom In VA]

Well Van, all I know is that you and Trower provided a very memorable moment. I was chillin on the couch and reading the thread. Clicked on the Trower vid(s) and my 15 month old son cruised over to see who was jamming. He climbed up next to me and put his hands on this ....



Grabbed the laptop to get a better view as he peered at the screen ....

All the while just groovin' and shaking his head, smiling and my wife and I were just loving the moment.

Bravo dude, bravo.

[LTS TRN 2]

just because someone paints their house or changes the tire on their car I don't consider them to be a painter or a mechanic.

If a guy is out there on Fisherman's Wharf, guitar case open, and he's earning himself $50 or whatever by playing for tips, yeah, he's a guitar player.

I've actually done that, only in L.A., and I guess during that period of time I did consider myself to be a guitarist, though it wasn't a full time gig.

Anyway, again, sticking an object in Tom's daughter's mouth and applying a soothing kiss to her skinned knee doesn't make you a doctor.

And lay off the muzzies, without their Jacksons my wife would have to get a job.

:D

Whoh...too much info, Van. Look, if you can rotate the tires by tomorrow I won't tell the Silver Man that you were pinching his tips on the wharf while pretending to choke on a crab leg. As for your dreadful pedo tendencies, keep it in Tracy.

[Van]

Hey now, you done doctored up that post!



Tracy?