Roger Federer

[Van]

It didn't happen there, either. Borg played right handed. You're probably thinking of Connors, not Borg.

[War Wagon]

:doh:

[LTS TRN 2]

The rankings are not somehow adjusted to the player's era or particular competition, but simply who would kick whose ass at the top of their respective games--on the widest variety of surfaces. Period. And the list I submitted reflects the accurate all-time rankings to date. Federer's game at it's best is the best so far. Agassi's best would beat Conners', despite Jimbo's sheer greatness--and he's my favorite.

[poptart]

Agassi's dad is Iranian.

That's why you've got your pimp hat on.

How the hell can you place him #2 all-time ... ahead of the guy in his own era (Sampras) who PWND him?

Laver
Borg
Sampras
Federer
Tilden

That might be your top 5 players -- and not necessarily in that order.

You could rightfully toss a handful of other players into the discussion, but Agassi wouldn't be among them, imo.

Unless you're an Iranian pimp.

[LTS TRN 2]

And why do you dislike Iranians? It's irrelevant, but you don't know what you're talking about. Sampras certainly deserves consideration for the top three or even two, but the court variety is a larger factor than of which you're aware (along with everything else, you dolt). Pete never won dick on clay.

[poptart]

I don't have anything against Iranians, and it's slighly ironic to me because there was a second generation Iranian tennis player that I worked with for a few years in Houston who I liked a lot.

You're right that Pete's record on clay, and certainly his record at the French, was not good at all for a guy who most consider to be in the discussion for ... greatest ever.

But Agassi won the French all of ... ONE ... time, and remember that he dicked away two golden opportunities to win it early in his career when he blew finals v. Andres Gomez and Jim Courier.

Agassi dicked away a LOT of things for a couple/few years early in his career.

And Agassi won the Big W just ... ONE ... time, while Pete won it 7 times, never losing a final there.

The career slam thing for Agassi is nice, and it shows him to be a somewhat more versatile player than Pete, but I think some folks overrate it on Andre's behalf.

Agassi would have notched 3 or 4 French Opens, imo, if he hadn't have been walking around with his head up his @ss for a couple of years.

[orcinus]

Agassi would have notched 3 or 4 French Opens, imo, if he hadn't have been walking around with his head up his @ss for a couple of years.

Yin and Yang, brother. Take away the squandered opportunities of youth, and there's no way you have a focused pirate assaulting his way through the twilight of his career. Pull the head out and he's a footnote in tennis history ... a flashy haircut with a forehand.

[LTS TRN 2]

Yo, ryhmo, don't forget to cite Lendl for that "haircut and a forehand" slap at Agassi. P-tart, you're pointlessly distracted by the "lost years" of Agassi's career. In fact he started the earliest at the top level, 'cept Borg--and he was a total burnout by 25. Agassi suffered a variety of lingering injuries, worked through them, came back not only stronger but totally reinvented (much like Martina Navratilova), and displayed a game so complete and solid and focused for several years--surpassing even Conners for longevity at the top level--that his place in the highest tier of the all-time list is secure and fair.

[Van]

Connors spent many more consecutive weeks at #1 than Agassi. Connors' consistency at the top was almost unmatched. You have to look at Federer, Sampras and Lendl to see anything like a similar sort of consistency, and certainly Agassi didn't exhibit it.

[LTS TRN 2]

Jimbo was the best for a long time, but he racked up that #1 run pretty early in his career. During his long swan song he was extremely entertaining but not a top five threat. Agassi was always near the top once he made his (second) big comeback--and that's unprecedented. What's to be considered in such a hypothetical ranking is how these guys--they who established themselves as all-timers--would match up at the top of their respective games. And Agassi would beat Lendl as well as Conners and Mac. Oh sure, it's a tough call, and the matches would be glorious, but the rankings I've submitted are accurate.

[Van]

Hell, if you're just going by the end of their careers then Borg is #1. Dude had no "end of his career." He just Jim Browned or Sandy Koufaxed it.

"Yep, I'm dominant. Ah, yes, the good life, living in Monaco. Hey, look at that, over there! Pussy! There, too! Why, there's some more! What the hell, there's hot Euro pussy everywhere! Hmmm. I'm rich, young, good looking, famous and single, so what the hell am I doing here, playing tennis with some Croation douche?? Fuck it. I'm retired. See ya!"

[LTS TRN 2]

Wrong, Van. Jim Brown could have continued at the top of his game--but he's the only one. Koufax had a chronic elbow condition and was barely able to get through his last two seasons, despite the great results. He absolutely had to step down. As for Borg, he had been defeated yet again at the U.S. Open and was genuinely spent. The mental toughness factor is basic to the all-time rankings, and even though he had a tremendous run of exactly six years, he was done. He also had serious foot problems. Agassi would have beaten Borg as well.

[War Wagon]

Hell, if you're just going by the end of their careers then Borg is #1. Dude had no "end of his career." He just Jim Browned or Sandy Koufaxed it.

"Yep, I'm dominant. Ah, yes, the good life, living in Monaco. Hey, look at that, over there! Pussy! There, too! Why, there's some more! What the hell, there's hot Euro pussy everywhere! Hmmm. I'm rich, young, good looking, famous and single, so what the hell am I doing here, playing tennis with some Croation douche?? Fuck it. I'm retired. See ya!"

Bwa - Rack!

[Van]

Nick, I know Koufax had elbow issues. Okay, so you're taking this seriously, despite what I used as Borg's obviously joking reasoning for retiring while still on top of the world...which WW got.

You say Jim Brown was the only one who bailed while still on top?

Rocky Marciano says you're a fag, and so do Lance Armstrong and Barry Sanders. (Nevermind that Lance couldn't stay retired. He retired while still riding the crest of what is the cycling equivalent of winning seven straight Super Bowls.)

[smackaholic]

Bjorn may have been a bit burned out at the time and maybe he was going through a few injuries as does pretty much every athlete, but, he was twenty fukking six!!!!!! He could have unburned himself fairly quickly chilling on the riviera up to his elbows in unimaginable europussy. He easily could have come back and piled on another dozen majors as he likely had another 8 or 10 peak years.

Would have been interesting to see how long he coulda got it done with that wooden racket from the 30s though.

You know what would be fun to watch? Bjorn and roger at their peaks on the grass with a coupla pea sized wooden rackets.

I wonder if roger could get that serve over 100 with one of those?

[poptart]

You know what would be fun to watch? Bjorn and roger at their peaks on the grass with a coupla pea sized wooden rackets.

Tennis lost it's grip on the pro game around 1985 when Becker came onto the Wimbledon lawn with his composite racquet and starting firing off aces.

The beginning of the big snooze.

Federer, who is arguably the most well-rounded player of all-time, is bashing the ball from the baseline at damn near TWICE the speed that the wood era players were.

Find some old Mac-Borg clips on youtube and look at how it seems like they hitting the ball in slow motion.

It was a more enjoyable product back then.

Much more artistry and finesse involved.

[LTS TRN 2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcRNZeo70P4

This demo demonstrates just what 's what...just watch and know...the sheer genius of Laver and the utter force of nature that was Jimbo.

[poptart]

This was a fun clip that I watched a couple of months ago and laffed at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7jkeZ0kNq8

'74 U.S. Open clip -- young Jimbo v. aging Ken Rosewall.

Connors destroyed Rosewall at old Forest Hills -- grass.

Watch at the 3:50 mark, where they show Jimmy's finance -- Chris Evert -- and the announcers making a big deal about all the jack Jimmy would bank by winning the event -- $22,500

LMAO

[LTS TRN 2]

Bjorn may have been a bit burned out at the time and maybe he was going through a few injuries as does pretty much every athlete, but, he was twenty fukking six!!!!!! He could have unburned himself fairly quickly chilling on the riviera up to his elbows in unimaginable europussy. He easily could have come back and piled on another dozen majors as he likely had another 8 or 10 peak years.

Would have been interesting to see how long he coulda got it done with that wooden racket from the 30s though.

You know what would be fun to watch? Bjorn and roger at their peaks on the grass with a coupla pea sized wooden rackets.

I wonder if roger could get that serve over 100 with one of those?

Two things, Smak-ic: first, Borg's game was based entirely on his astonishing speed and court coverage as well as his absolute concentration--and maintaining this was itself the most straining and stressful part of his regimen. And having done this for about twelve years non-stop (including his full-time amateur career at 14 and 15), he was genuinely spent and could not in any way simply have "kicked back" and recharged his batteries or whatever. Quite the contrary, the long vacation which he needed only confirmed that he was done. Second, Borg, like Laver or Connors actually wouldn't change much with a larger graphite racket. One might imagine they'd all start wailing ground strokes like Roddick or Nadal, but it's just not true. Mac and Connors switched and really stayed pretty much the same. Borg used modern rackets in his various comeback exhibitions and was exactly the same (and btw had lost everything!).