HEY JON

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:37 pm

Any truth to the rumor that Jewel Hampton tore his ACL and will not play in 2009? I know a lot of Iowa fans are big on this guy as Shonn Greene's heir apparent. What a tough loss, if true.

Man, the Big Ten is going to be pretty thin at RB this year...

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:20 am

Yep, he's out. It's a tough loss. He was a very good backup as a true freshman last year. Definitely made the most of his carries last year. Good speed.

The good news is it's a position we actually have depth at. The problem is it's all young depth. Jeff Brinson will most likely be the starter. He redshirted last year. Adam Robinson, redshirt freshman and Brandon Wegher, true freshman, will be the backups along with Paki O'Meara, who got a few carries last year.

Robinson, Brinson, and Hampton all battled for the backup spot last year. Ferentz had planned on redshirting 2 of them, and basically on the last day chose Hampton. Wegher is the highlight of our 2009 class.

I think as long as these guys are servicable we should be fine because our O-line will be very good. I think Ricky has a lot of potential at QB, and he's only going to get better. My guess is this will simply put a little more pressure on Stanzi. I don't think anyone expected Hampton to come close to matching what Shonn Greene did anyways. Not saying it's not a big loss, but injuries are a part of the game. You have to have guys ready to step in, and from the way it sounds, we do.

I will say this though........one more key injury and we could be a 7-5 team. Already suffering some injuries/suspensions on the O-line and now Hampton. The defense is going to be one of the best in the country, but if the offense suffers anymore injuries that could really affect the defense by forcing them to be on the field the entire game, every game.

Barring more injuries from Iowa, this is how I see the Big-10 shaking up.....

1.Ohio State
2.Penn State
3.Iowa
4.Illinois
5.Minnesota
6.Michigan State
7.Wisconsin
8.Northwestern
9.Michigan
10.Indiana
11.Purdue

Ohio State and Penn State to BCS. Iowa to CapOne. Illinois to Outback. Michigan State to Alamo. Who gives a crap about the rest.

Now 2010.......watch out!

We'll have 10 starters back on defense and 8 on offense. Gonna be the team to beat!

minorthreat · Post by **minorthreat** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:36 am

I've heard that Brinson is actually better than Hampton.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:43 am

minorthreat wrote:I've heard that Brinson is actually better than Hampton.

I hope it's true. But remember, Hampton did beat him out last year so obviously the coaches feel different- unless something has changed since then.

minorthreat · Post by **minorthreat** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:48 am

TheJON wrote:
minorthreat wrote:I've heard that Brinson is actually better than Hampton.
I hope it's true. But remember, Hampton did beat him out last year so obviously the coaches feel different- unless something has changed since then.

I think he'll struggle a little at first but probably be fine for the B10. Isn't the O-line pretty experienced?

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:50 am

Experienced, but we do have some issues with Vandevelde being injured for an unknown amount of time and they say Dace Richardson is banged up again too. Plus, Kyle Calloway faces a suspension for being a fucking idiot. If I were to guess, however, I bet Calloway plays vs ISU. Just a hunch.

minorthreat · Post by **minorthreat** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:55 am

TheJON wrote:Experienced, but we do have some issues with Vandevelde being injured for an unknown amount of time and they say Dace Richardson is banged up again too. Plus, Kyle Calloway faces a suspension for being a fucking idiot. If I were to guess, however, I bet Calloway plays vs ISU. Just a hunch.

I'm not sure it will matter much. Unless ISU's Defense pulls a fucking rabbit out of its hat, Stanzi should have all day. The offense should be pretty good though.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:33 am

Jon wrote:1.Ohio State
2.Penn State
3.Iowa
4.Illinois
5.Minnesota
6.Michigan State
7.Wisconsin
8.Northwestern
9.Michigan
10.Indiana
11.Purdue

Mgo, your thoughts??

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:47 am

My thoughts are that Iowa's Big Ten road games are @ Ohio St, Penn St, Michigan St, and Wisconsin. Just brutal.

MSU doesn't even play Ohio St and they've got PSU at home.

No way in hell does Iowa finish higher, and certainly not 3 spots higher.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:16 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:My thoughts are that Iowa's Big Ten road games are @ Ohio St, Penn St, Michigan St, and Wisconsin. Just brutal.

MSU doesn't even play Ohio St and they've got PSU at home.

No way in hell does Iowa finish higher, and certainly not 3 spots higher.

Iowa has won 4 of their last 5 trips to State College and has lost maybe twice in the last 20 years in Madison.

No way in hell does Iowa finish higher? Come on. You know it, and I know it that Iowa was a better team than Michigan State last year. You got us at home and were lucky to win. We'll be a better overall team this year and I think Sparty takes a slight step back.

The Big-10 is clearly a 3 team race between Ohio State, Penn State, and Iowa. I'd give Ohio State a slight edge over the other 2. Everyone else is just playing for bowl slotting.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:37 pm

Any team that is returning their QB from last year, especially a senior QB, has a chance to do some damage in conference. Despite the huge defensive question marks, I think you gotta factor in Illinois as well. They had a terrible season last year, but there is a boatload of talent on that offense. Juice Williams will most likely have a more consistent year than last year, but with Ford & Dufrene in the backfield and Benn, Cumberland & Fason (Florida txfr) out wide I see them right in the mix as well. Yeah yeah yeah, I know. Zook will fuck up at least one game. Probably against N'Western.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:11 pm

That was some Grade AAAA, top choice myopia right there, from Iowa Fan.

The "you were lucky to beat us" was pretty sweet, for starters.

Including Iowa among the three conference contenders was pretty badass.

Talking about Big 10 teams and saying "everyone else" is playing for bowl slotting, but apparantly Iowa isn't, that was just a fucking hawkeye.

Yeah, Jon, Iowa is playing for a BCS bowl. They're a nearly equal part of the Triumverate At The Top O' The Big 10, just a skosh behind Ohio St, and Michigan St is nowhere close to Iowa.

That whole post, it just made me happy!

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:06 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:Y'all play football up there?

Yes, Sam. Football is played throughout the United States. It's not just in the Southeast.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:27 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:
Sudden Sam wrote:Y'all play football up there?
Yes, Sam. Football is played throughout the United States. It's not just in the Southeast.
WTF?!?!?!

When did this start?

I sure would like to see a damn Tide jersey in these pics sometime in the near future!

Damn I guess the Big 10 and Big 12 will have to find solace in the fact they have both had more national titles and all americans from their institutions than the Southeast who discovered football in the 60s...

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:35 pm

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:45 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:Just tryin' to get some blood boiling during the non-football season!

However.....

I haven't got time to count 'em all, but the national championships by conference #s I see in a quick Google search are:

Big 12 - 16
SEC - 16
Big Ten - 11

(1936 to present...AP or BCS champs only)

Are these incorrect?

Fuck yeah they are. I mean, Alabama alone has about 27 NC's, and has probably one 2 or 3 more in the time it took me to type this post.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:01 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:Just tryin' to get some blood boiling during the non-football season!

However.....

I haven't got time to count 'em all, but the national championships by conference #s I see in a quick Google search are:

Big 12 - 16
SEC - 16
Big Ten - 11

(1936 to present...AP or BCS champs only)

Are these incorrect?

Ummmm yeah... just off the top of my head I know that OU has 7, Texas 4, Nebraska 5, A&M 1, and Colorado 1 from the Big 12...

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:45 pm

Van wrote:That was some Grade AAAA, top choice myopia right there, from Iowa Fan.

The "you were lucky to beat us" was pretty sweet, for starters.

Including Iowa among the three conference contenders was pretty badass.

Talking about Big 10 teams and saying "everyone else" is playing for bowl slotting, but apparantly Iowa isn't, that was just a fucking hawkeye.

Yeah, Jon, Iowa is playing for a BCS bowl. They're a nearly equal part of the Triumverate At The Top O' The Big 10, just a skosh behind Ohio St, and Michigan St is nowhere close to Iowa.

That whole post, it just made me happy!

Van,

What was so wrong about anything I said? That's not myopia. Iowa is definitely a Top 3 team in the Big-10. I did not say we will be playing in the BCS. I said we will be in 2010. I said 9-3 or 10-2 this year.

Fact of the matter is, by the end of the year last year Iowa was arguably the best team in the Big-10. It was very close between Iowa, OSU, and PSU. I really don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with that. And we return a lot of starters.

As for Michigan State vs Iowa. I actually think that will be one of our losses. We just can't win in East Lansing and until we prove we can, I will take the Spartans. Same with Ohio State. Can't beat them in C-bus. But Penn State and Wisconsin......we own those stadiums. Even in years we suck, we still play well in Madison and the only year since 1994 we've lost in Beaver Stadium was 2 years ago.

Last year when Iowa and Michigan State faced off, we were pretty darn even. It was the 1st (or 2nd, I forget) game of conference play. We lost by a yard (missed a 4th and 1) on the road in a game we trailed 4-1 in the turnover battle. That team Michigan State saw was not the same team we were at the end of the year. And we return a lot more key players than they do, including our QB.

I have no idea where you're saying I'm being overly myopic. This is a good Iowa football team with a lot of potential in the next couple of years.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:07 pm

I'd bet just about anything that with MSU's and Iowa's respective schedules nearly every knowledgeable pundit in the Big 10 has MSU finishing higher than Iowa. I'll also bet none of them have MSU finishing 6th.

Jon, why would you assume that MSU wasn't also a different and better team last year, by season's end? Do you think only Iowa benefitted from the season marching on?

MSU skips OSU, and they get PSU at home. I'd rate their chances as about even with PSU's, and just behind OSU's. As I mentioned to Mgo in a PM, if USC should happen to walk into The Shoe and destroy OSU again (a big "if," granted), I'd then consider that conference to be completely up for grabs, with MSU being the one team best positioned to fill the breach.

OSU will be in deep trouble as a program hoping to remain any sort of a national title contender, if they get ruined again by USC. Their confidence as a top-tier program will then be nill, and rightfully so, and they'll be ripe to be taken down in-conference.

MSU is the one program in that conference that seems to be coming the hardest, along with PSU, but where PSU is concerned I need to see some year-to-year consistency that I just haven't seen from them. Under Dantonio, MSU looks to be building something, and I don't see Iowa building anything.

They're still just meh Iowa. Same coach, same talent level, same realistically blah expectations.

Meanwhile, MSU seems poised to put Iowa in their rearview mirror.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:25 pm

Are you clueless or fucking retarded???

I'd bet just about anything that with MSU's and Iowa's respective schedules nearly every knowledgeable pundit in the Big 10 has MSU finishing higher than Iowa. I'll also bet none of them have MSU finishing 6th.

Wrong on both counts. By the way........games aren't won in magazines anyways.

Jon, why would you assume that MSU wasn't also a different and better team last year, by season's end? Do you think only Iowa benefitted from the season marching on?

Because I watched the fucking games, Corky and anyone else that did would say the same thing.

MSU skips OSU, and they get PSU at home. I'd rate their chances as about even with PSU's,

Without any experience at QB and without Ringer?

OSU will be in deep trouble as a program hoping to remain any sort of a national title contender, if they get ruined again by USC. Their confidence as a top-tier program will then be nill, and rightfully so, and they'll be ripe to be taken down in-conference.

tOSU could lose 120-0 to USC and they'll still be in contention in the Big-10.

MSU is the one program in that conference that seems to be coming the hardest, along with PSU, but where PSU is concerned I need to see some year-to-year consistency that I just haven't seen from them. Under Dantonio, MSU looks to be building something, and I don't see Iowa building anything.

Well, I was going to continue on with your post but there's really no point. I think this statement proves what a complete fucking moron you are so there's no reason for me to carry on arguing something you're so clueless about.

Dude, go back to the beach. There's some surfin' to be done, bra. Leave the CFB talk to those that actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:13 am

TheJON wrote:Are you clueless or fucking retarded???
I'd bet just about anything that with MSU's and Iowa's respective schedules nearly every knowledgeable pundit in the Big 10 has MSU finishing higher than Iowa. I'll also bet none of them have MSU finishing 6th.
Wrong on both counts.

Links? Show me where a respected scribe has MSU finishing sixth, and show me where more than one or two nitwit Iowa homers have Iowa finishing above MSU this year.

Don't show me a Hawkeye blog, a la m2 and his Cal ejaculations.

By the way........games aren't won in magazines anyways.

No, they're won on football fields; home fields, usually, which is where MSU will be playing their toughest game. Meanwhile, Iowa will be picking up road losses, all over the place.

Jon, why would you assume that MSU wasn't also a different and better team last year, by season's end? Do you think only Iowa benefitted from the season marching on?
Because I watched the fucking games, Corky and anyone else that did would say the same thing.

Right. So, MSU was no better by season's end than they were at the time they played you. Only Iowa got better, as the season progressed.

Dude, seriously, shut up. This is like your "Iowa City has too many bars!" excuse. You are aware that other teams besides Iowa play football, right? There are other college towns, and loads of other bars, and loads of other teams who all start off the season at one level of competency, only to end it at another.

Newsflash: Most everybody gets better, as the season progresses. It ain't just Iowa.

MSU skips OSU, and they get PSU at home. I'd rate their chances as about even with PSU's,
Without any experience at QB and without Ringer?

PSU lost key people too, and so did Iowa. Other than Florida, who didn't?

OSU will be in deep trouble as a program hoping to remain any sort of a national title contender, if they get ruined again by USC. Their confidence as a top-tier program will then be nill, and rightfully so, and they'll be ripe to be taken down in-conference.
tOSU could lose 120-0 to USC and they'll still be in contention in the Big-10.

I didn't say they wouldn't be in contention. I said they'd be ripe for the taking, in-conference, and I said they'd be through as a national title contender.

MSU is the one program in that conference that seems to be coming the hardest, along with PSU, but where PSU is concerned I need to see some year-to-year consistency that I just haven't seen from them. Under Dantonio, MSU looks to be building something, and I don't see Iowa building anything.
Well, I was going to continue on with your post but there's really no point. I think this statement proves what a complete fucking moron you are so there's no reason for me to carry on arguing something you're so clueless about.

Dude, go back to the beach. There's some surfin' to be done, bra. Leave the CFB talk to those that actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

Surf's up, in Sacramento? Cool. My property value must've just gone up.

Nice white flag you waved there, though, I gotta say. You said nothing. Do you care to counter the point, with anything?

JoePa's still in charge at PSU, right? Same up-and-down program it's been for a long time now.

Ferentz is still in charge at Iowa, right? Same mediocre program it's always been, with no change in sight.

Dumbass tanked in Michigan, did he not? He's still there, right? Michigan is at least another year or two away, assuming they get there at all with that guy running things.

Illinois? They flopped, after showing a pulse. No reason to expect anything major from them.

Ohio St is Ohio St.

Who else is there? Michigan St is the one program there that seems to be on a definite upswing. If you think Iowa's on a bigger upswing, you're quite stupid. Iowa might be able to schedule themselves into a little bit of success, but they're still only Iowa. A little bit of success is all they can shoot for. They sure as fuck aren't winning the Big 10, not this year.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:20 am

TheJON wrote:Iowa has won 4 of their last 5 trips to State College and has lost maybe twice in the last 20 years in Madison.

Iowa's schedule:

@ Penn St
Michigan
@ Wisconsin
@ Michigan State
Indiana
Northwestern
@ Ohio St
Minnesota

MSU's schedule:

@ Wisconsin
Michigan
@ Illinois
Northwestern
Iowa
@ Minnesota
@ Purdue
Penn St

There you go. Go ahead and mark the wins/losses, and show me how Iowa is going to finish 3 spots higher than MSU with THAT schedule. Without looking at the other schedules around the conference, I'd venture to say Iowa has the toughest slate in 09. Stop acting like that's not a factor, especially after you just lossed your starting RB.

No way in hell does Iowa finish higher? Come on. You know it, and I know it that Iowa was a better team than Michigan State last year.

First off -- then why did they lose 4 straight games, including a loss at home to Northwestern? Did MSU do that? And what does last year have to do with this year?

Secondly, no, I know no such thing. Aside from the Ohio St and Penn St debacles, that was MSU's worst performance of the season. It was incredibly uninspiring, lackluster football. And they still won. The funny thing is -- you got your bread and butter going in that game, with Greene and the running game, while MSU struggled on the ground with Ringer...their bread and butter as well...and State still won. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that Iowa was a better team when they couldn't beat MSU's D game.

You got us at home and were lucky to win. We'll be a better overall team this year and I think Sparty takes a slight step back.

We got you at home again. What's the excuse going to be then?

And it's nice to know, as usual, Iowa will improve while their opponents take a step back. I'm loving how you don't know a single thing about MSU's personnel, yet you're qualified to evaluate the nuances of where the program is headed.

Don't let the losses of a couple marquee names fool you. The team as a whole will absolutely be better.

The Big-10 is clearly a 3 team race between Ohio State, Penn State, and Iowa. I'd give Ohio State a slight edge over the other 2. Everyone else is just playing for bowl slotting.

LOL.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:35 am

where PSU is concerned I need to see some year-to-year consistency that I just haven't seen from them.

I will say that PSU seems to be in a really good place with recruiting now. As far as building something, things are looking good.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:33 am

No, they're won on football fields; home fields, usually, which is where MSU will be playing their toughest game. Meanwhile, Iowa will be picking up road losses, all over the place.

Where at? Wisconsin? Ahahahaha! Penn State? Perhaps. Michigan State? Perhaps. Ohio State? Perhaps. We just need to win 1 of the road games between MSU, OSU, and PSU. Do that and we're very likely a 10-2 team.

Right. So, MSU was no better by season's end than they were at the time they played you. Only Iowa got better, as the season progressed.

Didn't say that. What I said was at the end of the year Iowa was clearly a better team. Do all teams improve the EXACT same? Can one team NOT improve more than another? Have you considered this?

I suppose Iowa did not improve drastically from our 3-3 start, right? It was just a fucking magical act that we ended up 9-4 with a win over Penn State, and blowout wins over Minnesota, South Carolina, and Wisconsin along the way, right?

PSU lost key people too, and so did Iowa. Other than Florida, who didn't?

Right. But if you followed College Football, and you clearly do not, you would understand the importance of experience at QB. Iowa is the prime example. Want to know how many points combined we lost by in our 4 losses last year? 12. That's right, dickface......12 mother fucking points TOTAL in 4 losses. Why? Because Ricky Stanzi was inexperienced and turned the ball over and/or made bad throws in clutch spots. By seasons end, he started to show some maturity and hence our 6-1 finish. Iowa would have been a BCS team and not Ohio State had we just been more experienced at the QB spot. That's not me being a homer, that's a god damn fact.

Nice white flag you waved there, though, I gotta say. You said nothing. Do you care to counter the point, with anything?

No, there's absolutely no point in doing so. You've proven your lack of knowledge by saying Michigan State's program is superior to Iowa. I mean, are you fucking kidding me? It's not even close. Iowa's program over the last quarter century or so is so god damn far ahead of Michigan State it's not even funny. If you followed college football, and we've established that you haven't, you would know this. Heck, this decade the difference between Iowa and MSU is basically Lakers vs Clippers you fucking retard. Top 10 finishes.....Iowa 3, MSU 0. Big-10 Titles......Iowa 2, MSU 0. Top 20 Finishes. Iowa 4, MSU 0. New Years Day Bowls.......Iowa 5, MSU 1 or 2. Etc....

As for the future of the program........Did you read what I wrote about what Iowa will return in 2010? Not only are we clearly more talented in 2009, but in 2010 we'll have 8 starters on offense back (including a 3rd year starting QB), and 10 starters on defense. Yeah, gee fuckstick, our future sure doesn't look very bright!

Ferentz is still in charge at Iowa, right? Same mediocre program it's always been, with no change in sight.

Yep, finishing in the Top 20 4 of the last 7 years, 3 in the Top 10, winning 2 Big-10 titles and playing on New Years day almost every year sure is pathetic. Michigan State could only fucking dream of doing that shit moron.

Illinois? They flopped, after showing a pulse. No reason to expect anything major from them.

Illinois will win 8-9 games. They have 10-11 win talent but Zook is the coach so you can pencil them in for a couple of inexcusable losses. They have too much talent and experience (especially at QB and WR) to not win 8 games.

If you think Iowa's on a bigger upswing, you're quite stupid.

No, we're not on an upswing like MSU is. That's true. THAT'S BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY BEEN AT OR NEAR THE TOP YOU DUMBASS! That's like saying Florida sucks and isn't as good as Louisiana Lafayette because LA-Lafayette might enjoy more future success than they've had in the past than Florida will. I mean, dude, how god damn stupid are you???

Go away dude, I told you to leave the CFB talk to those of us that actually watch the games. Just admit you don't know a god damn thing about the Big-10. That will save me future dumb arguments with inferiors like yourself.....

hey m club.......busted out Iowa's statistics a couple times in 1 post beeyotch!

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:46 am

First off -- then why did they lose 4 straight games, including a loss at home to Northwestern? Did MSU do that? And what does last year have to do with this year?

Turnovers. We turned it over 5 times vs Northwestern. Stanzi had 4 of them. It was 3 straight losses, by the way. All 3 because of turnovers. That's what happens when you start an inexperienced QB in a BCS conference. 90% of the teams that are inconsistent but at least somewhat talented, are inconsistent because of an inexperienced QB. This is why MSU is going to potentially beat a team like Iowa and then go on the road and lose to a team like Purdue or some other shit team. You lose your star RB too. Iowa does as well, but we have an advantage in that we've got a more experienced QB and a better O-line.

I'm not going to mark W's and L's for MSU for that reason. They're going to surprise you one week and then lose to a mediocre team the following week. The only teams in the Big-10 that's EVER been able to put up 9-10 win seasons with a 1st year starting QB and having to replace a player like Javon Ringer have been OSU and Michigan. You're MSU dude. You're starting to build a solid program but you just won 9 games for the first time since 2000 and you suffered some crucial losses due to graduation.

You're bound to take a SMALL step backwards only because of your QB inexperience. Put an experienced QB on that team and then, yes, I think you'd definitely be in contention. I wouldn't even hesitate to pick Sparty in the Top 2-3. But I've seen it 6 million times in this conference throughout the years.........teams other than OSU and Michigan very rarely contend for a Big-10 title without having experience at the QB spot.

As for Iowa.....

Wins in conference- we'll win 1 of the 3 games vs OSU, MSU, and PSU and run the table in the other games to finish 6-2. 10-2 overall record.

For MSU...... I see an easy schedule with basically every game being winnable. Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois are toss-ups. You'll go 1-2 in that stretch. Penn State is a PROBABLE loss. And you'll slip up in 1 of the other games because you'll turn the ball over 5 times. So that's 4-4.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:56 am

Van wrote:Jon, why would you assume that MSU wasn't also a different and better team last year, by season's end? Do you think only Iowa benefitted from the season marching on?

hmm, anyone have links to box scores of state's last two games?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:12 pm

It doesn't even matter. It's easy and convenient to cherry pick a certain point in your season, point to that, and say you were better...then have the audacity to ignore the actual head to head matchup, or toss it aside as meaningless because you made a bunch of mistakes in the game like committing turnovers.

Iowa didn't get MSU at the end of the year, they got one crack at them in early October, and they lost. All the what ifs, what could've beens, etc., are totally irrelevant.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:37 pm

Maybe it's me, but I just don't think there is a Big Ten team that is a lock to finish anywhere in the standings, probably with the exception of tOSU & PSU. And I base that on both teams' consistency last year as well as the overall talent both teams are returning and have been recruiting recently. Jon is suggesting that Iowa is in that echelon; someone in here said they would be surprised if MSU finished any lower than 3rd. I see the 3rd slot in the Big Ten being wide open right now, and I honestly don't know how any fan of any team can argue against that. MSU, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, hell Northwestern all have legimate arguments based on last year alone.

Sure Iowa returns a solid defense, a great offensive line, and what looks to be [sarcasm]the next coming of Tom Brady at quarterback[/sarcasm] but they were a very inconsistent team last year and have been as a program, historically. No Shonne Green, apparently no Jewel Hampton. I still see them dropping a game outside the trips to Columbus & Happy Valley. MSU is definitely a program on the rise with Dantonio, but I question how they are a top 3 lock in the conference when they are breaking in a new QB and don't have Javon Ringer in the backfield. Check the schedules, fellas. Iowa has the toughest conference slate for sure, and though MSU avoids the Buckeyes don't overlook those trips to Madison, Minneapolis & Champaign either. I really can't see MSU winning all three of those games, not to mention that N'Western always gives them fits as well no matter where that game is played.

To me, there's just too many teams with too many question marks with comparable levels of talent at the 3 thru 8 spots.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:54 pm

Honestly, I am expecting a pretty damn exciting year in the b11. It seems to me that UM can only improve, for example. There are (arguably) at least 5 teams that could end up pretty damn strong.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:36 pm

anyone putting their money on state is a fool. their best season since saban skipped out of town was a result of winning every game in which they were the better team and rolling over in the games they were expected to lose. i've said this before and mgo has answered that he's encouraged by the consistency, which, fine, well and good and all, but until they actually make that jump, especially with a brand new qb in tow, i and the rest of the world not called van will consider it a pleasant surprise if they finish in the top four, let alone top three.

psu is breaking in a new line as well as a whole new receiving corps, yes, not to mention a new defensive line?

i don't know a whole lot of specifics about osu, but there was a significant gap in talent between beanie and that little dude with dreads. pryor also benefited quite a bit last year from an experienced receiving corps bailing him out quite a bit, not to mention boeckman's tutelage. it reminds me a bit of henne "tearing up" his freshman year only because braylon could jump so high. i'd expect a bit of drop off from pryor in this regard, the obvious caveat being his legs.

illi strikes me as an especially dangerous team, though as everyone's already pointed out, zook. i bet juice williams turns in a much better year than pryor.

anyone dismissing michigan is also a fool. they're still too young and/or lack talent at key positions to finish near the top of the table, but they were competitive in most of their games last year despite the players having no clue how to run the offense, not to mention their stable of high school qbs. they'll pull off a few big wins this year.

all this speculation of iowa vs. msu has failed to take into consideration the annual tendency for some joke program to suddenly contend from out of the blue while everyone else's dark horse goes 2-6 in conference play. perhaps indiana will sneak into the bcs.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:27 am

anyone dismissing michigan is also a fool. they're still too young and/or lack talent at key positions to finish near the top of the table

Yeah, exactly. Nobody is dismissing Michigan as a contender for middle of the pack.

As for MSU's inexperience at qb, it's not as big of a concern as some of you are making it out to be. Trust me, I know when to freak out about quarterbacks...and I'm not freaking out about quarterbacks. Hoyer's experience towards the end of the year last year was pretty irrelevant when he ceased the ability to make plays. It's a run-based offense, and Kirk Cousins (whom I think will be named the starter) has two full years under his belt of digesting and learning the offense. Physically, he's got more abilities than Hoyer did, and he saw a decent amount of real game action last year -- not just mop up duty -- and he looked good while doing it. He may not be a 3 year starting senior qb, but he isn't a true freshman either. The defense will be the strength of the team, as it returns many key starters. These things tend to get overlooked when the only evaluation system somebody uses for a football team is looking at the quarterback position. Which is especially funny since I'm not even trying to justify State's "loss" at that position -- I actually think they're going to be better.

Anyone believing the gap between Hoyer and Cousins/Nichol is so huge that the team as a whole is going to take a hit will be sorely mistaken. I loved Ringer, and Hoyer was good at times, but they were not tremendous talents. They were more products of the system.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:53 am

hmm, anyone have links to box scores of state's last two games?

Yeah, no kidding! One of those teams State got lambasted by at the end was a team Iowa beat (State Penn)

Oh, and while MSU was getting outscored something like 73-21 (I'm too lazy to look up the exact numbers) the last 2 games, Iowa was outscoring opponents 86-10.

Yep, Van is right on point here!!! This is exactly why I told the dumbass to not comment in a Big-10 thread.

anyone putting their money on state is a fool. their best season since saban skipped out of town was a result of winning every game in which they were the better team and rolling over in the games they were expected to lose. i've said this before and mgo has answered that he's encouraged by the consistency, which, fine, well and good and all, but until they actually make that jump, especially with a brand new qb in tow, i and the rest of the world not called van will consider it a pleasant surprise if they finish in the top four, let alone top three.

Great take. I'm not from Missouri, but you gotta show me first..... It is damn hard to stay up near the top of the Big-10 consistently if you're not Michigan or Ohio State. Just ask Iowa and Wisconsin. We've both had a lot of really good years and also some mediocre years. It's fucking hard to win 9-10 games consistently in this league outside of OSU and UM. There is absolutely no argument whatsoever that over the last 3 decades, Iowa is the 3rd most successful program in the Big-10. It's not even close between anyone else. But we'll win 8-10 games for a few years and then have a string of 5-7 win years. Then win 8-10. Then have a 3 year rebuilding project and win 7 games total. Then win 8-10. Etc, etc, etc....

Wisconsin had 3 Rose Bowl berths in the 90's. The rest of the 90's was mediocre. They were terrible in the 80's. Up and down in this decade. Heck, since Penn State's joined the conference in the early 1990's, they really haven't done a lot except for a couple of years and they were an elite program back then. Fact of the matter is the top kids in the Midwest want to go to Michigan and Ohio State and the rest of us (unless you're cheating like Zook) are stuck with their leftovers. That's why the rest of the programs either completely suck every year (ie Indiana) or are up and down (ie Iowa, Wisconsin). But until Michigan State shows me they're more than a 1 year wonder, I just cannot pick them high. It would be foolish to do so.

i don't know a whole lot of specifics about osu, but there was a significant gap in talent between beanie and that little dude with dreads. pryor also benefited quite a bit last year from an experienced receiving corps bailing him out quite a bit, not to mention boeckman's tutelage. it reminds me a bit of henne "tearing up" his freshman year only because braylon could jump so high. i'd expect a bit of drop off from pryor in this regard, the obvious caveat being his legs.

Good points on Ohio State, but I just don't know who can compete with their talent in this conference. Really, the only comparable team in terms of talent is Illinois but like I've always said......I don't care how much talent you give Ron Zook, he will never win more than 8-9 games because he's the worst coach in the history of BTPCF.

i bet juice williams turns in a much better year than pryor.

It's almost an insult to Juice Williams for you to put him in the same sentence as Pryor. Pryor is a TERRIBLE passing QB. I don't care what his numbers say. He has lousy instincts and throws like a girl. He will NEVER play in the NFL. He will NEVER be all-conference. He will always freeload off the talent around him.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:58 am

Yeah, no kidding! One of those teams State got lambasted by at the end was a team Iowa beat (State Penn)

Yeah, and the team you lost to at home, MSU beat on the road (N'western).

See how easy that was?

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:59 am

L45B wrote:Maybe it's me, but I just don't think there is a Big Ten team that is a lock to finish anywhere in the standings, probably with the exception of tOSU & PSU. And I base that on both teams' consistency last year as well as the overall talent both teams are returning and have been recruiting recently. Jon is suggesting that Iowa is in that echelon; someone in here said they would be surprised if MSU finished any lower than 3rd. I see the 3rd slot in the Big Ten being wide open right now, and I honestly don't know how any fan of any team can argue against that. MSU, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, hell Northwestern all have legimate arguments based on last year alone.

Sure Iowa returns a solid defense, a great offensive line, and what looks to be [sarcasm]the next coming of Tom Brady at quarterback[/sarcasm] but they were a very inconsistent team last year and have been as a program, historically. No Shonne Green, apparently no Jewel Hampton. I still see them dropping a game outside the trips to Columbus & Happy Valley. MSU is definitely a program on the rise with Dantonio, but I question how they are a top 3 lock in the conference when they are breaking in a new QB and don't have Javon Ringer in the backfield. Check the schedules, fellas. Iowa has the toughest conference slate for sure, and though MSU avoids the Buckeyes don't overlook those trips to Madison, Minneapolis & Champaign either. I really can't see MSU winning all three of those games, not to mention that N'Western always gives them fits as well no matter where that game is played.

To me, there's just too many teams with too many question marks with comparable levels of talent at the 3 thru 8 spots.

Great points here as well. I will say though that sometimes we take a look at a schedule before the year and think one team has a brutal schedule and another has a weak schedule and then as the season plays out we change our minds because you end up having surprise teams and disappointing teams. Like you said, there's a lot of question marks on spots 3-8 (I'd make that 2-8 though) and so I don't think any of those teams are a lock to be really good or a lock to be really bad. I recall in 2003 I believe, Purdue was supposed to be a contender because they had a lot of starters back from a quality team and were playing an allegedly weak schedule. They ended up flaming out quickly. So we don't necessarily know who plays a tough schedule in conference and who doesn't. What I do know is that 2 of our alleged tough road games (Wisconsin, State Penn) are in stadiums we've had a lot of success over the years at.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:01 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
Yeah, no kidding! One of those teams State got lambasted by at the end was a team Iowa beat (State Penn)
Yeah, and the team you lost to at home, MSU beat on the road (N'western).

See how easy that was?

First 2 games of conference play vs last 2 games of the season. There's a difference. We're talking about 2009 predictions and I'll favor a team that played much better at the end of the previous season vs a team that played better early in the season.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:07 am

I don't know how this thread evolved into an unnecessary history lesson on Iowa and MSU.

I just wanted to crack JON for saying there's a huge dropoff in the Big Ten after OSU, PSU, and...Iowa. Nothing that has happened in recent history or the distant past makes that statement any less retarded.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:12 am

TheJON wrote:First 2 games of conference play vs last 2 games of the season. There's a difference. We're talking about 2009 predictions and I'll favor a team that played much better at the end of the previous season vs a team that played better early in the season.

Who gives a fuck? A team is measured by its body of work. You can't just outright dismiss losses because those pesky losses don't make your team look good. You're bordering on m2ool-like behavior...

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:22 am

Nothing that has happened in recent history

What's your definition of "recent history"? Would you consider 2002-2004 "recent history"???? We got 31 wins, 2 Big-10 titles, a BCS Bowl, 3 Top 10 finishes, and about 85,000 All Big-10 players in those 3 years. Would you not consider Iowa an elite program in the conference over that stretch??

By the way.......Iowa has as good of a linebacking corps, defensive line, secondary, and offensive line as ANY team in the Big-10. Add to that an experienced receiving corps and an improving QB and you've got a pretty darn good football team. What the fuck does MSU have? Defense? Meh. QB? Inexperienced. O-Line? Meh. I can roll off a long list of Iowa players that have a darn good shot at being all-conference. Who the fuck does MSU have?

I will sig bet you whatever you want that Iowa ends up with a MINIMUM of 6 more 1st and 2nd team All-conference players than MSU. You will 7-8 guys on defense make the 1st 2 teams, our QB, 3-4 O-linemen, DJK (WR), and possibly Moeaki (if he can stay healthy- TE) and Donahue (punter). I bet MSU has no more than 4-5 guys TOTAL.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:24 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
TheJON wrote:First 2 games of conference play vs last 2 games of the season. There's a difference. We're talking about 2009 predictions and I'll favor a team that played much better at the end of the previous season vs a team that played better early in the season.
Who gives a fuck? A team is measured by its body of work. You can't just outright dismiss losses because those pesky losses don't make your team look good. You're bordering on m2ool-like behavior...

So you're saying that playing better at the end of the year has no more of an indication of how good you'll be the following year than playing well in the early part of conference play???? And you say I'm bordering on m2ool behavior???

The fact of the matter is Iowa made bigger strides than MSU as the season progressed last year and that bodes well for Iowa and not so much for MSU in 2009.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:27 pm

TheJON wrote:It's almost an insult to Juice Williams for you to put him in the same sentence as Pryor. Pryor is a TERRIBLE passing QB. I don't care what his numbers say. He has lousy instincts and throws like a girl. He will NEVER play in the NFL. He will NEVER be all-conference. He will always freeload off the talent around him.

Well, you can pretty much put it in stone that Pryor will be a Heisman finalist, Big 10 POY, first team AA and top 10 pick by the time his career is over. You know how JON and his "never" predictions pan out.