Hawaii football coach, soooper genius

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:05 pm

July 30, 2009

Hawaii football coach uses homosexual slur in reference to Notre Dame

By Dan Hinxman
dhinxman@rgj.com

SALT LAKE CITY – Second-year Hawaii football coach Greg McMackin said Notre Dame players engaged in a “little faggot dance” when describing a banquet the night before the Hawaii Bowl last December.

McMackin, speaking at the Western Athletic Conference’s annual football media preview on Thursday morning, said the teams gathered the night before the game for a banquet when Irish coach Charlie Weis introduced the players and a ritual they do.

“I know most of the coaches in the country are rooting for us to beat Notre Dame,” McMackin said. “Charlie gives this talk, ‘We do something special at Notre Dame,’ and (the players) get up and they do this little cheer ... this little faggot dance.”

McMackin said he felt he made a mistake that night by then having the Hawaii players do a Ha’a, a ritual Polynesian dance that McMackin believed made the Irish players take notice and got them to play at a higher level the following day. Notre Dame won, 49-21.

After describing the dances, McMackin asked reporters not to write about his defamatory comments. WAC commissioner Karl Benson was in the room.

“Don’t write that ‘faggot’ down. I was misquoted,” he said. “Just please … cover for me,” McMackin said. “Go ahead, say ‘faggot dance.’ No. Please cover for me on that, too — right Karl? I’ll deny it. Anything else?”

About 15 minutes after McMackin left the room, he returned and added, “I want to officially, officially apologize. Please don’t write that statement I said as far as Notre Dame. The reason is I don’t care about Notre Dame. But I’m not a … I don’t want to come out and have every homosexual ticked off at me. You know what I mean, because I don’t have any problem with homosexuals. But I apologize for saying that and I’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t run that word. If you said ‘dance,’ that’s OK. But don’t use the bad term that I chose, please. Thank you.”

Late Thursday morning, McMackin and WAC officials held a press conference where McMackin again stressed his regrets.

“I would sincerely like to apologize for the inappropriate verbage or words that I used,” he said. “You know, a couple things. I have nothing against the University of Notre Dame. I don’t talk like that. And I’m really ticked off at myself for saying that. I don’t have prejudices, and it really makes me mad that I said that. I’m really disappointed in myself.

“I know there are a couple of you that know me. I’m a very competitive person. I think I told you guys that was my worst loss in my 40-year career at Notre Dame. It ticks me off that I said that because Notre Dame played a great ballgame.

What I was trying to do was be funny, and it wasn’t funny, and it’s not funny. Even more, it isn’t funny to me. I was trying to make a joke and it was a bad choice of words. And I really, really feel bad about it.

“I’m going to apologize to my team. I’m going to apologize to the people in Hawaii. … I hope some of you guys know me well enough to know what I’m saying. All I can do is apologize. I feel bad that I used those words. It was really stupid.”

Benson also addressed the media.

“I don’t think there’s a lot to say from a conference standpoint,” he said. “This primarily will be a University of Hawaii issue. There is a sportsmanship piece in our code that may apply, and at the appropriate time we will address it.”

The nine coaches’ interviews Wednesday and Thursday were recorded on WAC.TV for use on the conference’s Web site, wacsports.com. Benson said that McMackin’s conference was not posted and added that he did not know if it will be posted.

“Obviously his remarks were offensive, and he showed his sincerity in the last couple minutes in terms of his regret,” Benson said. “I don’t know if there is any useful purpose for us to put those remarks on the Internet.”

I have no issues if Weis-lite thinks ND's dance is stupid. Haven't seen it, probably is. It's the fact that he used a term that in today's society is the equivilant of an N-bomb. But the best part of the story, in my mind, is this:

"Don’t write that ‘faggot’ down. I was misquoted,” he said. “Just please … cover for me,” McMackin said. “Go ahead, say ‘faggot dance.’ No. Please cover for me on that, too — right Karl? I’ll deny it. Anything else?”

Ah, coach? You said that at a media day with cameras and tape recorders rolling. But you're right, just deny it. They have no way to prove you said it.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:19 pm

What exactly is the issue here?

Sin

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:26 pm

Why do I have a feeling Shmickity will make an appearance in this thread with a priest/altar boy take?

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:31 pm

McMackin was the DC at Texas Tech a few years ago.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:42 pm

He should've just stood by his statement. Nobody would've given a rat's ass. Most people would've just nodded their heads, or laughed. It wasn't what he said that was the problem, it was all his waffling afterwards that made him look so horrible.

He should've said it on ESPN. He'd be a poor man's Mike Gundy folk hero by now.

College football coaches, saying "faggot?" The horrah.

When did offending homosexuals become a big worry for college football coaches? What, are they afraid that offended homosexuals will boycott and picket their games, for being called "faggots?"

Yeah, that'll put a big dent in the popularity of college football.

What the hell is wrong with this country? How did we ever come to be this pathetic? When did we suddenly begin feeling this overwhelming need to apologize for and be this overly sensitive about every goddamn thing?

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:45 pm

Van wrote:He should've just stood by his statement. Nobody would've given a rat's ass. Most people would've just nodded their heads, or laughed. It wasn't what he said that was the problem, it was all his waffling afterwards that made him look so horrible.

He should've said it on ESPN. He'd be a poor man's Mike Gundy folk hero by now.

College football coaches, saying "faggot?" The horrah.

When did offending homosexuals become a big worry for college football coaches? What, are they afraid that offended homosexuals will boycott and picket their games, for being called "faggots?"

Yeah, that'll put a big dent in the popularity of college football.

What the hell is wrong with this country? How did we ever come to be this pathetic? When did we suddenly begin feeling this overwhelming need to apologize for and be overly sensitive about every goddamn thing?

Yeah, why doesn't he just start dropping N-bombs and talk about the "colored folk" he needs to recruit?

You're slipping, man.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:23 pm

N-bombs and "faggot" aren't nearly on the same level, and you know it. You use "faggot" all the time, along with other slurs against gays, but you never drop n-bombs.

Moreover, the coach of Hawaii isn't the coach of Cal. He doesn't need to worry about offending gays.

Seriously, dropping n-bombs as a derogatory term (rather than as the always unfortunate attempt to be hip and familiar), the way he did with the "faggot" quip, that's a sure way to lose his job. It also guarantees he'll never get a black player to play for him again, anywhere, whch means he doesn't get another head coaching gig anywhere.

Calling a dance a "faggot dance?" In the world of CF? If Nick Saban had said it, and not apologized later for saying it, Bama would build him a statue.

I guarantee you, if Erin Andrews had stuck a mic in Charlie Weis's face to ask him about that Islander dance Hawaii does, and if Weis had said, "Jesus, Erin, what a faggot dance! Isn't that the gayest thing you've ever seen?" you and every other person in ND Nation would be rolling in laughter over it. It'd be all over youtube, all over ESPN, and Weis's popularity would soar, just because of the "regular guy" appeal of it.

If gay groups then began to make a stink over it, and Weis's response was something along the lines of, "Hey, it was a faggot dance. Didn't you see it?" he'd be the new Knute Rockne.

You'd love the guy to death.

Had he said, "It was just a bunch of mvscals being mvscals," uh, no.

Don't even begin to try to say the two things are the same; not in the world of college football.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:35 pm

Nope, you're talking to the wrong guy on that stuff. I don't drop "faggot" quips on my friends. Nor do I call anyone "retards".

It's an extremely offensive term that no one would be celebrating, unless they were completely ignorant. The fact that you are defending it's use is highly questionable.

Are you serious? If Weis said that the ACLU would be calling for his job before the statement completely left his mouth. It would be a top story on ESPN and no one would be thinking it was anything but offensive.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:47 pm

Van,

I gotta go with Killian on this one a bit. About 10 years ago when I was fresh out of college, single and just working and having fun, I really didn't give a shit about much other than getting drunk and laid (some things never change ;) ). Anyhow, I was out with some buddies. One had brought his wife along. I jokingly said something about how I thought "so and so is a faggot." She got all uppity on me. Said I should not use that term, etc. I said "What? Faggot? Faggotfaggotfaggotfaggot." She left the table and never talked to me again.

Some people just have convictions. Do I regret saying that? Yeah, because I didn't see near as much of my friend (her husband) after that. But to her, faggot was like an N-bomb. I still dissaprove of the fag lifestyle choice, but I'm much more accepting of it now. And I damn sure won't go scream "Faggot!" from a mountaintop like I once would do. And if I did so at my job I'm sure I would get fired, even though I work in a 99% white german catholic town where few homos reside. I understand homos being offended by it. If they don't want to be called a faggot, I won't use that term. Now...fudge-packing cock inhalers? Is that off limits?

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:55 pm

Killian wrote:Nope, you're talking to the wrong guy on that stuff. I don't drop "faggot" quips on my friends.

You drop them here. You've said way worse here. You've called people all sorts of frightfully gay things here...and you most certainly meant them as insults!

Besides, I'm sure Hawaii's coach doesn't consider Charlie Weis to be his friend; nor his players.

Nor do I call anyone "retards".

Neither did he.

It's an extremely offensive term that no one would be celebrating, unless they were completely ignorant. The fact that you are defending it's use is highly questionable.

Which? Faggot, or retard? Who said anything about retard here?

On a message board choking with descriptions of gay sex insults I don't think "faggot" even registers. I couldn't give a fuck about defending it.

Are you serious? If Weis said that the ACLU would be calling for his job before the statement completely left his mouth. It would be a top story on ESPN and no one would be thinking it was anything but offensive.

Yes, ESPN would run it as their top story, and yes, the ACLU would go after them, but that isn't what I said, was it? No. I said you and nearly all of ND Nation would be rolling on the floor laughing over it, and if Weis then called a press conference, and in his New Jersey accent said, "Hey, ACLU, take you and your faggot lawyers and go do your own little faggot dance!" most of college football would canonize the guy.

ND's administation wouldn't, of course. They'd be all up in arms with apologies, and disclaimers, but fans all across the country, including countless ND fans, would laugh their asses off if the guy said it, then they'd laugh even harder if he had the balls to stand by it.

People really aren't all that easily offended, especially gays, as much as we seem to need to think people are these days. The only ones who are easily offended seem to be the ones with the specific agendas.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:05 pm

Really, I've called someone on here a faggot? I find that very hard to believe. Why don't you provide me with a link and if I did, I will damn sure apologize. But again, I think you're talking out of your ass. What's new!

And no, I would not be lauging my ass off if Weis said it. Neither would ND Nation.

Go ahead and keep talking about shit you don't know anything about. You're already doing it in two threads with me.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:20 pm

Killian, you haven't used variations on "pole smoker" insults on this board? You haven't insulted anybody here, ever, using graphic descriptions of gay sex?

Not even with the Sissyroo pic? Or m2, and windchimes, and Ren Faires? You've never hurled a gay-based insult here, ever?

If so, then I stand corrected, and I apologize. I'm pretty damn sure though that I've seen you go off on people with fag insults.

As for the other thread, you just have your head buried in the sand. You can't refute a single thing I said. Weis is an embarrassment, an utter embarrassment; moreso than any ND coach in our lifetime. He's done nothing. Well, nothing good, anyway.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:21 pm

Van wrote: People really aren't all that easily offended, especially gays, as much as we seem to need to think people are these days. The only ones who are easily offended seem to be the ones with the specific agendas.

People aren't so much offended as they are clued in to your ignorance, and in this case you're wearing bright lights.

It's also not a matter of taking offense to assume the person using "faggot" is a complete ignoramus. How sheltered are you to possibly think Weis would endear himself to an entire fan base by calling something faggoty? It's a slur. It has the same intent behind it as mvscal. The only difference is you might like black people while you hate homos, thus you've rationalized it's use.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:26 pm

Van wrote:Killian, you haven't used variations on "pole smoker" insults on this board? You haven't insulted anybody here, ever, using graphic descriptions of gay sex?

Not even with the Sissyroo pic? Or m2, and windchimes, and Ren Faires? You've never hurled a gay-based insult here, ever?

If so, then I stand corrected, and I apologize. I'm pretty damn sure though that I've seen you go off on people with fag insults.

As for the other thread, you just have your head buried in the sand. You can't refute a single thing I said. Weis is an embarrassment, an utter embarrassment; moreso than any ND coach in our lifetime. He's done nothing. Well, nothing good, anyway.

Not that I am aware of. I stay as far away from that shit as possible. I'll make fun of people for their dumb ass takes, but I try and usually do, stay very far away from sexual orientation smack.

As for the other thread, it's perfectly fine to eject in this one. Again, ND has had "monster production" from young players. The issue is they are the only players who are producing due to, as you would like to call it, "historic lows" in recruiting by Lionel Tyrone Willingham.

Just admit that you rarely watch anyone other tha Southern Cal, and your frame of reference is typically what ESPN says on College Football Today.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:32 pm

The simple fact that most of college football's fanbase has NO problem with calling each other "fags" eighty seven times a day is proof enough for me that no, most of college football wouldn't do anything but laugh if Weis were to call a dance a "faggot dance."

I take it you've never visited this message board before? Or the main board? Or any other college football board? Or a tailgate? Or a strip club? Or gone to work?

Are you truly going to sit here and be this disingenuous, and pretend like people saying "fag" is in any way, shape or form uncommon, or severely frowned upon in general society?

Sure it's frowned upon in many circles, and in polite conversation. People know better.

In the world of college football? I wouldn't be surprised if Rich Rodriguez was on the phone right now with some old assistant coach of his, yukking it up over fag jokes, and what the Hawaii guy said.

Spare me your "ignorance" bleatings. Nobody's "ignorant" about it. We all know what it means, and we all know when we're not supposed to say it; otherwise, most people just don't give a fuck. It's just not that much of a "hot button" phrase. It's nowhere near as sensitive a phrase as an n-bomb.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:37 pm

Speaking of ejecting....

Killian wrote:Just admit that you rarely watch anyone other tha Southern Cal, and your frame of reference is typically what ESPN says on College Football Today.

No, I won't, and fuck you. Why don't you just admit that you're no "insider," and you don't know anymore than anybody else? Why don't you just admit that your coach has ruined your program? Why don't you stop blaming everything on Willingham? No other coach gets to continue blaming his predecessor...when he's entering his FIFTH YEAR!

That "sell by" date expired a long time ago.

Again, if Willingham was so bad, then the turnaround under Weis should've been instant and stratospheric, especially with these supposed killer recruiting classes he's had.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:38 pm

Van,

We all call each other fags and shit on here because it is anonymous. Not because it is a part of BTPCFB culture. I'm not above dropping a "fag" blast on someone I know in real life, but it would probably be like my best friend on the golf course or some shit like that. Even then, you gotta give the look over left shoulder, look over right shoulder.....fag-blast.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:41 pm

Indy, I know that. The fact is, you still do it, as do most people. I bet you don't drop n-bombs though, not even under those circumstances.

Oh, and yes, calling people fags is very much a part of BTPCF culture. Fans from rival teams have always called each other that, and each other's team that, among many other politcally incorrect epithets. Among college football fans, "faggot" is actually a fairly milquetoast epithet.

Check out what OU-Texas fans typically say to each other. "Faggot" is barely even worth a response.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:43 pm

No, but god dammit if Obama hasn't tested me.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:45 pm

Van wrote:The simple fact that most of college football's fanbase has NO problem with calling each other "fags" eighty seven times a day is proof enough for me that no, most of college football wouldn't do anything but laugh if Weis were to call a dance a "faggot dance."

Go ahead and believe that. Southern states still fly the Stars n Bars, does that make it right? You honestly sound like a child right now. "But everyone does it, that's why it's okay!" Give me a fucking break.

Van wrote: I take it you've never visited this message board before? Or the main board? Or any other college football board? Or a tailgate? Or a strip club? Or gone to work?

Are you truly going to sit here and be this disingenuous, and pretend like people saying "fag" is in any way, shape or form uncommon, or severely frowned upon in general society?

I've visited this board, I've seen it used, and when I was mod, I would edit it out. Typically I would send a PM to the poster, or I would leave a message in the post. Main board? Nope. Any othe college football board? Yep and none of them use that term. Tailgate? Yep, again, don't use that term. Strip club? Nope. Work? Yep, and no one uses that term unless they want to get fired.[/quote]

I didn't say it wasn't uncommon or that it wasn't severely frowned upon. That was kinda my point with the original post. What was yours?

Van wrote:Sure it's frowned upon in many circles, and in polite conversation. People know better.

In the world of college football? I wouldn't be surprised if Rich Rodriguez was on the phone right now with some old assistant coach of his, yukking it up over fag jokes, and what the Hawaii guy said.

Again, does this make it right? I know what coaches say behind closed doors. What's the point?

Van wrote:Spare me your "ignorance" bleatings. Nobody's "ignorant" about it. We all know what it means, and we all know when we're not supposed to say it; otherwise, most people just don't give a fuck. It's just not that much of a "hot button" phrase. It's nowhere near as sensitive a phrase as an n-bomb.

And a short time ago, an N-Bomb wasn't that sensitive of a phrase. I love your argument of "we all know what it means, and we all know when we're not supposed to say it". So in private company, do you drop the N-bomb because you know you're not supposed to say it around "those people" and "they" won't hear you? Holy fuck, Van. Go back and read what you just typed.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:48 pm

Van wrote:Speaking of ejecting....

Killian wrote:Just admit that you rarely watch anyone other tha Southern Cal, and your frame of reference is typically what ESPN says on College Football Today.
No, I won't, and fuck you. Why don't you just admit that you're no "insider," and you don't know anymore than anybody else? Why don't you just admit that your coach has ruined your program? Why don't you stop blaming everything on Willingham? No other coach gets to continue blaming his predecessor...when he's entering his FIFTH YEAR!

That "sell by" date expired a long time ago.

Again, if Willingham was so bad, then the turnaround under Weis should've been instant and stratospheric, especially with these supposed killer recruiting classes he's had.

I can see critical thought isn't your strong suit. That's cool, I'm a shitty speller. I don't blame everything on Willingham, Weis hasn't ruined the program, and I do know more about what goes on inside Notre Dame than most people.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:52 pm

Van wrote:The simple fact that most of college football's fanbase has NO problem with calling each other "fags" eighty seven times a day is proof enough for me that no, most of college football wouldn't do anything but laugh if Weis were to call a dance a "faggot dance."

Simple fact? You've collected social data on this? Or is this just more of where you project your experience into the world at large? "People naturally prefer their hands in sport because I do even though soccer is the most followed sport."

I'll do the same: no one I hang out with uses fag, therefore 99% of cf fans would have a problem with calling each other fags. If I were at a game at Michigan Stadium or a bar with other Michigan fans, and I yelled, "Run, faggot, run," I'd feel the same palpable ostracization as I would were I to yell, "Run, you fucking spick."

I take it you've never visited this message board before? Or the main board? Or any other college football board? Or a tailgate? Or a strip club? Or gone to work?

Are you truly going to sit here and be this disingenuous, and pretend like people saying "fag" is in any way, shape or form uncommon, or severely frowned upon in general society?

This is perfectly telling about you. You're using a message board full of racists as your primary frame of reference?

And no, people don't throw around faggot in my place of work, a school. I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't be too thrilled if they were to attend parent-teacher conferences only to have the teacher pepper his discourse with a "faggot" or two. I've also never attended a tailgate where people feel compelled to drop slurs. "Man, that mvscal can throw!" I mean, I've heard it, but it generally comes from some horse-hair mustache wearing a jersey he bought on clearance at Walmart. And mvscal is an appropriate comparison. It's generally muttered under your breath, out of earshot of the polite society you talk about, same as faggot.

Spare me your "ignorance" bleatings. Nobody's "ignorant" about it. We all know what it means, and we all know when we're not supposed to say it; otherwise, most people just don't give a fuck. It's just not that much of a "hot button" phrase. It's nowhere near as sensitive a phrase as an n-bomb.

It is ignorance. You're fucking ignorant. "If Charlie Weis called it a faggot dance and told the faggoty ACLU to go fuck another dude, ND fans would love it." Considering ignorance means you have no clue, you're grade a, especially because everything you say about mvscal is just as applicable to the use of fag, despite your insistence they're different.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:54 pm

Killian, link me up to where even one time I mentioned any of this being "right."

I haven't. All I've said is that it is. Quit trying to put words into my mouth.

"Just because it's happening, that doesn't make it right."

Yeah? So? What about it? That's a completely different topic. All I've said is that in the world of college football, especially among your typical fan, the use of the term "fag" or "faggot" as an intentional slur is to so pervasive as to be mere white noise.

You're dreaming, btw, if you you think it isn't used on other college football message boards. It's used here too, nearly non-stop, against m2. I've seen some boards where the constant filthy vitriol was so intense it made the main board here look like a Disney board.

People say "fag" and "faggot" all the time, meaning it to be a slur. That's just a fact. Don't shoot the messenger.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:03 pm

M Club, which part of "people know better than to do it in polite society," so befuddled you?

Did I say people said it during parent-teacher conferences, you pompous moron? No. I specifically said people know better.

The world of college football isn't a parent/teacher conference, and who gives a flying fuck if YOU would get offended if someone at a football game called someone else a fag? The point is that it happens, every day, all around you, and if you say it doesn't then you're either lying, deaf, or you never set foot outside of academia.

You certainly haven't spent any time around college football, not if you say college football fans don't use it. I know you've at least seen this board, and people here, like Indy, and shutyomouth, and Jon, they use it all the time...and much, much worse.

Please. Go sell that nonsense somewhere else, M Club Winchester III.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:04 pm

Van, you're defending it's use as a punch line. It's the "What, everyone is saying it..." attitude that is a defense of the use. In my opinion, if you are defending that people are saying it, or saying "it's not as bad as an N-bomb", you are condoning it.

I see it's use on m2. You know who throws that term out the most? JON. Care to rethink your stance on using this board as a guideline?

I go to this board, sometimes NDNation, a UofM board and a sports radio board. None of them allow that word.

Don't cop out with the whole "messenger" bit now. Go for it all.

Also, mclub, I think the correct spelling is "spic".

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:18 pm

Killian, it's hardly confined to Jon. Also, if the boards you frequent don't allow its use, then of course you haven't seen it there. Guess what? Countless other boards do allow it, and it's nearly as common on some of those boards as the word "the."

Now, in your case? Intentionally insulating yourself from it, then saying you don't see it?

Priceless!

I neither condone nor condemn it, so again, don't try to put words into my mouth. My stance is that I just don't give a fuck. I understand that it's not to be used in polite society, and I understand some people truly are offended by it. I also understand that the ACLU's job is to be offended, and to exaggerate their degree of offense, so I couldn't give a rat's ass as to their take on anything.

On a personal note, I don't use it myself, hardly ever. I probably do on these message boards, thought not very often, and almost never without provocation, but I can't think of when I ever might use it in real life.

See, other than your most flaming gays, of the type who dance in parades, I just don't give a crap about whether someone's gay or not. Yeah, those truly flaming ones disgust me, just because they're such outlandish fairies, and I don't need to see such a vivid display of their bizarreness, but other than for those types it's just not something that's on my radar. I know it's out there, and I hear people using the terms all over the place, but it's just not an issue to me.

I don't use it, and I don't care if others do, or don't. If you consider that to be condoning it, oh well. I guess I also condone cancer, and the moon orbiting around the sun. They're both going to continue to happen, regardless of my feelings on the matter.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:22 pm

A closeted biggot, the best kind.

You got me, Van. I don't go trolling for message boards where people say "faggot" as much as you do. Maybe that says something about the boards you're looking for?

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:27 pm

Van wrote:M Club, which part of "people know better than to do it in polite society," so befuddled you?

Did I say people said it during parent-teacher conferences, you pompous moron? No. I specifically said people know better.

Chasing your tail again? What you specifically said is as easy as a cut-and-paste:

I take it you've never visited this message board before? Or the main board? Or any other college football board? Or a tailgate? Or a strip club? Or gone to work?

I've already pointed out how silly it is to base your standard for decorum on what's written on a message board. Also, I travel in different circles than a strip-club regular, and not because I'm above Miller High Life.

Also, nice attempt to confuse the forest for the trees. You posed a rhetorical question trying to allude that "faggot" is commonly used at my place of employ. For the record, I also don't sit around with other teachers talking about "faggot" kids or whatnot. It has nothing to do with pompousness and everything to do with being a halfway-decent human being.

Anyway, I don't think you understand polite society. If the use of fag was so widespread and understandable, you'd have no problem telling your barista you want a coffee, black, because you don't do faggoty lattes. Or the Safeway check-out girl that some fag took the last gallon of milk. Or maybe explain to the cop who's pulled you over that you were speeding because some fag was tailgating. I think you're confusing the fact that people with an understanding can exchange slurs, for whatever reason.

The world of college football isn't a parent/teacher conference, and who gives a flying fuck if YOU would get offended if someone at a football game called someone else a fag? The point is that it happens, every day, all around you, and if you say it doesn't then you're either lying, deaf, or you never set foot outside of academia.

You continuously confuse taking offense with realizing what a ignorant fool someone is. If someone drops mvscal, faggot, SPIC on me in conversation, I don't lay bare my feelings. I simply file that person away as a loser.

You certainly haven't spent any time around college football, not if you say college football fans don't use it.

Oh look, there goes Van projecting again. I can't imagine. Just because your circle of friends is full of racist bigots doesn't mean the world at large fits the same profile.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:28 pm

By the way, this:

Van wrote:I don't use it, and I don't care if others do, or don't. If you consider that to be condoning it, oh well. I guess I also condone cancer, and the moon orbiting around the sun. They're both going to continue to happen, regardless of my feelings on the matter.

Is too priceless for words.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:37 pm

Killian, I don't go trolling for message boards. I've seen them. So have most other fans of college football. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me you weren't aware that there are rival message boards, where shit gets slung? What, are you and M Club holed up in the same cloistered closet?

In any case, this is the only message board on the entire internet I post on. Even here, people say "fag," and much worse.

Oh, and don't even bother going TVO on me, with the "bigot" crap. We've all had way more than enough of the chicken little "racist/bigot/homophobe" accusations.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:44 pm

M Club wrote:If someone drops mvscal, faggot, SPIC on me in conversation, I don't lay bare my feelings. I simply file that person away as a loser.

Agreed. That would describe how I deal with such people, to a tee.

My point is, it doesn't change the fact that people do it, in many different circumstances. I hate n-bombs. I would never use one. I'm certainly aware though that it's commonly used.

Is "faggot" used in your workplace? Fine, it's not. Is it used in many others, as water cooler talk, or crap people throw around at each other in a warehouse, or in joking e-mails, or whatever? You know damn well it is.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:47 pm

I know it's said and I don't pretend otherwise. I stay away from that shit and most of the boards I go to, don't use those words.

Let me ask you a question, Van. Have you ever asked a homosexual man what he thinks the most offensive thing you can call a homosexual?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:51 pm

Killian wrote:Have you ever asked a homosexual man what he thinks the most offensive thing you can call a homosexual?

Probably pretty much anything Rayduh James posts.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:53 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
Killian wrote:Have you ever asked a homosexual man what he thinks the most offensive thing you can call a homosexual?
Probably pretty much anything Rayduh James posts.

Dude, this fucking got me!

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:05 pm

Killian wrote:I know it's said and I don't pretend otherwise. I stay away from that shit and most of the boards I go to, don't use those words.

Let me ask you a question, Van. Have you ever asked a homosexual man what he thinks the most offensive thing you can call a homosexual?

One time, yes, believe it or not.

His answer?

"There is no one thing. We're just like anyone else. We're not all the same. What may completely spin out one of us might not even register with another one of us. I can't speak for all gays, and nobody can speak for me."

He also said, "I don't care if you call me a fag. I am a fag. That'd be like me calling you straight. Would you be offended?"

His friend, a lesbian, she interjected, "Yeah, you don't care, but some gays really do hate the term 'fag,' or 'faggot.'"

He agreed. "See? That's what I mean. We're all different, just like any other group."

I've also known gays who used gay bashing terms on each other, like it was going out of style. They were way more brutal with each other than any of us would ever be to them.

"Bitch," "fag," "queen," and a whole littany of other slurs. Similar to the way blacks drop n-bombs on each other, like drops of rain in a thunderstorm, some gays aren't the least bit put out by verbiage, of any sort.

Others are. They're not all the same.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:14 pm

So how isn't "faggot" and an N-bomb on the same level? Because one is more socially acceptable?

FLW Buckeye · Post by **FLW Buckeye** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:30 pm

Killian- Now whenever one of this forum's, uhh, Einsteins post about faggot dancers, I'm sure that most will associate that with the ND football team. Might have been a mistake bringing it up.

Just saying.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:31 pm

Killian wrote:So how isn't "faggot" and an N-bomb on the same level? Because one is more socially acceptable?

That, and the fact that one is much more viscerally offensive and downright explosive than the other.

Gays, as a formal group, were never slaves in this country. "Faggot" doesn't speak to ownership of a person, and definitive inferiority, and unspeakable violence.

There simply isn't anything like the equivalent historical context there, with "faggot."

Slavery and death, vs politically incorrect bigotry. Yes, gays have died over such bigotry, but it's been nothing like what blacks went through, with the lynchpin n-bomb forever denoting their status on this country's foodchain.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:38 pm

Killian wrote:Have you ever asked a homosexual man what he thinks the most offensive thing you can call a homosexual?

Sally? Fairy? Pooper Scooper?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:04 am

I'll make a go at pretty much anybody, in the appropriate circles of course. Those circles are pretty much confined to message boards or tightknit groups of friends. It'd be cool if we could all do that and not get our feewings hurt. Though I realize there's genuine hatred out there; so that just isn't a realistic wish. Likewise, if anyone wants a go at me, have at. I usually find it pretty funny. I'm not above making some off-kilter gay joke, but tossing around "fag" like some loose lipped redneck is pretty classless. It's not really the "social injustice" that turns me off as much as the realization this isn't someone I want to hang out with beyond 5 minutes, unless he's handing me free beers like so many loose lipped necks do to try and make friends. Beyond that, it just isn't funny.