2009 Heisman

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:09 pm

Killian wrote:...Purdue has a BCS win under their belt.

eh?

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:15 pm

Illinois also got shit-hammered in the Sugar Bowl by LSU in 00 or 01. it's just funny that ND fan has to defend the middle of the Big Ten in order to defend the Irish schedule or accuse others of "mid" level status when they actually play good teams....while being way too cool to be in the Big Ten all the same.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:43 pm

King Crimson wrote:Illinois also got shit-hammered in the Sugar Bowl by LSU in 00 or 01. it's just funny that ND fan has to defend the middle of the Big Ten in order to defend the Irish schedule or accuse others of "mid" level status when they actually play good teams....while being way too cool to be in the Big Ten all the same.

Where the fuck did you get that out of any of my posts? I wasn't defending ND's schedule or the middle of the Big 10. This was going back to your claim that A) Texas Tech and Oklahoma State were not middle of the Big 12 teams and B) If a MAC player beat a "mid level Big 10 team" then we would hear all about it. A) They are and B) we haven't.

As far as ND's schedule, I've railed against it and the dumbing down of the schedule for the past few years.

My bad mclub, I thought for some reason Purdue won the 2001 Rose Bowl.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:46 pm

If Houston runs the table, then Keenum should definitely be in the discussion to win it. Unless McCoy goes off against OU and runs the table.

Colt Brennan played nobody in 2007. They beat a 4-9 Washington team and that is it.

If Houston runs the table, they will have defeated two Big XII south teams which everyone considers to be the deepest division in all of college football. And they will have defeated Mississippi State. If Miss State somehow manages a 6-6 record and the Coogs beat them in their house behind Keenum's performance, then he chould be considered a strong candidate.

3 OOC victories against bowl eligible BTPFC schools of which two of them were on the road = Legit Heisman candidate. End of story.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:59 pm

Killian wrote:
King Crimson wrote:Illinois also got shit-hammered in the Sugar Bowl by LSU in 00 or 01. it's just funny that ND fan has to defend the middle of the Big Ten in order to defend the Irish schedule or accuse others of "mid" level status when they actually play good teams....while being way too cool to be in the Big Ten all the same.
Where the fuck did you get that out of any of my posts? I wasn't defending ND's schedule or the middle of the Big 10. This was going back to your claim that A) Texas Tech and Oklahoma State were not middle of the Big 12 teams and B) If a MAC player beat a "mid level Big 10 team" then we would hear all about it. A) They are and B) we haven't.

As far as ND's schedule, I've railed against it and the dumbing down of the schedule for the past few years.

My bad mclub, I thought for some reason Purdue won the 2001 Rose Bowl.

but you prove my point. Tech and O State are top 3 teams in the Big XII. you talk like a win over Purdue is a big one but winning at OK State is "mid level".

Texas Tech has beaten Oklahoma and Texas in Lubbock in the last 5 years. OU twice. is there a "mid" Big Ten team that can claim the same?

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:05 pm

Believe the Heupel wrote:Won't win or be invited, but:

Terrence Cody.

Definitely the most talented football player I have seen this year.

He will be making some bank in the NFL if he can stay healthy.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:05 pm

Illinois has beaten OSU at OSU, Iowa beats PSU at PSU every year, what's your point? Mid level teams beat upper teir teams all the time. That doesn't change anything.

I wasn't equating ND's win over Purdue to anything more than it was, a road win over a mid level conference team. Same as Houston over either/both of Texas Tech and Okie State.

And those two are "top three teams in the Big XII"? So who would you place behind them, Texas or OU?

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:27 pm

Killian wrote: And those two are "top three teams in the Big XII"? So who would you place behind them, Texas or OU?

what i'm saying is that Keenum has every right to be in the Heisman talk because he's beaten two teams better than Clausen has played. But, somehow, Clausen gets the love for being a "real" QB for Notre Dame, according to you.

I think there is a lot of BS with Notre Dame and Midwestern Big 10 posters thinking that a loss to a MAC team means the MAC is underrated and not that the Big 10 or Notre Dame team sucks.

the opposite is true. the Big Ten/ND posters rag on Ok State or Tech as being overrated or "mid".

my point is that Keenum has beat two teams ranked (and probably better) than ND and ND fan is yacking about "mid-level" teams as the truth about the Big XII. i bet Houston would be favored over ND if the game were played tomorrow.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:00 pm

Seriously, where the fuck are you getting all of this?

Killian wrote:Yeah, it might be a slight homer pick

Killian wrote:He has some big tests left on the schedule, and he will be doing it without his best receiver. But if he keeps up this pace, there is no doubt he should be in the conversation.

King Crimson wrote:who has Clausen beat that's so much better than OSU in Stillwater or Tech?

Killian wrote:No one, yet

Killian wrote:Keenum, Pike and any other mid-major will have to overcome an inherent bias. Keenum beat two BCS conference teams, as you said, that are as good or better than the two that Clausen has beat. If he beats USC, Pitt, Washington, Stanford, BC, etc., then his wins will look that much more impressive.

So what, again, are you arguing? I never said that Keenum shouldn't be in the conversation. My only comments were about wether he would be taken seriously, given other UH QB's that have been considered and won the award. You started this random sub argument with Van about who and who wasn't "mid-level" and then tried to rope me in by jumping to some conclusion.

King Crimson wrote:Tech and O State are top 3 teams in the Big XII. you talk like a win over Purdue is a big one but winning at OK State is "mid level".

No, I didn't, as I showed above. I was simply stating a fact. Just as it's a fact that Keenum scored the game winning TD against Texas Tech. But since I was talking about why I thought Clausen should be in the conversation, I didn't mention anyone else's big plays.

King Crimson wrote:my point is that Keenum has beat two teams ranked (and probably better) than ND and ND fan is yacking about "mid-level" teams as the truth about the Big XII. i bet Houston would be favored over ND if the game were played tomorrow.

Again, I'm not "yacking" about anything. I never said Purdue was anything more than they were. ND lost to the only ranked team they played (ranked mostly because they beat ND), through no fault of Clausen. And maybe Houston would be favored if the game was played tomorrow. ND is missing their best receiver, and their top tailback and quarterback are both dinged up. Regardless, I bet there wouldn't be a whole lot of defense played in that game.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:35 pm

Keenum is and will remain a non-factor, because Houston has no marquee games on their schedule.

They beat two mid-level Big XII teams, early in the year, and that's it. By the end of the year those games will be long forgotten. Houston needed those games to come at the end of the year, plus they needed either or both of those teams to show up as something other than mid-pack teams in their own division.

It's still September, and Houston already has no showcase games remaining on their schedule. Mississippi St doesn't even register. They're a perennial doormat who will again finish dead last in their own division.

Colt Brennan got a Lifetime Achievement nod when he was at Hawaii, but no serious thought ever went into giving him the award.

Keenum doesn't have a single game of note remaining on the schedule, and Heismans are won with big performances in big, nationally televised games late in the season. Tulsa is nobody's idea of a big game, and neither is UTEP. These are doormat programs, except within their own irrelevant conference.

Houston has no big games, and they run a popgun offense in a popgun conference, so Keenum is putting up big numbers in a vacuum. That's how it works with the Heisman. He has no chance. End of story.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:20 pm

Van wrote:Keenum is and will remain a non-factor, because Houston has no marquee games on their schedule.

Every week Houston wins and the big dogs start knocking off each other (i.e. OU vs Texas, Florida vs LSU, OSU vs PSU, Bama vs LSU/Ole Miss, TCU vs BYU/Utah, USC vs Cal/ORE) then Houston will slowly creep up the board week in and week out and eventually sniff the top five should they run the table. That is a huge "if" of course as I still proclaim they will have a slip up somewhere in C-USA.

However, if they do run the table the more attention they will draw from the media as their ranking gets in the single digits come November. Then they will have a C-USA championship game for Keenum to showcase his skills on the national spotlight one last time before the invitees convene in New York for the ceremony.

I get your point about Houston being lost in the shuffle in the middle of the season, but if Houston continues winning and everyone above them loses a game, then Keenum will be in the conversation as a legit candidate by season's end because he did not lose.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:30 am

Been awhile since I've posted but I thought this was as good of a thread as any. It's nice to see Tony Pike getting mentioned here. I think he is right there with McCoy and Bradford and unless he falls flat at some point this year he's got a great shot at being in NYC later this year. He had some injury issues last year so hopefully he can avoid that this year.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:31 am

Been awhile since I've posted but I thought this was as good of a thread as any. It's nice to see Tony Pike getting mentioned here. I think he is right there with McCoy and Bradford and unless he falls flat at some point this year he's got a great shot at being in NYC later this year. He had some injury issues last year so hopefully he can avoid that this year.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:01 am

i like Brian Kelly and would love to give Cincy some love. but, Bearcats got half a hundred hung on them in Norman last year.

and lost by 30.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:56 am

Yes, early in the season. Last year's team didn't really emerge until later in the season. What happened in Norman was probably good for our guys because it showed what they really needed to work on and they sure did take care of business after that. Try not to put too much emphasis on one game either. I mean, should we judge OU solely on the loss to BYU or should we judge them on their entire body of work this season? By the way, we'll look forward to seeing you guys up here in Cincinnati next year :wink:

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:39 am

Part of that body of work includes the OU game, which, btw, was early in the season for the Sooners too. How Cincy did later in the year still has to be reconciled with the teams they beat later in the year, none of which were teams of the caliber of OU.

It's easy to get better than you were when you got destroyed by a good team. Just play some bad teams.

Rumps, the C-USA CCG is not a national spotlight game. Nobody cares who wins C-USA. Nobody watches. Nobody cares who wins between Tulsa and Houston, not when Bama-Florida and the Big XII CCG are going on.

If Houston is undefeated by then, okay, there will be some mild interest in seeing if Houston and Keenum become this year's Hawaii/Brennan, but we all saw what happened when Hawaii and Brennan were forced to play someone real.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:54 am

CintiBearcat92 wrote:ither. I mean, should we judge OU solely on the loss to BYU or should we judge them on their entire body of work this season?

if you are trying to win the MNC, that one game L is how it goes. there's no such thing as an entire body of work after you lose.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:40 am

Sorry, I'm not biting on the schedule thing and playing bad teams, Van. We play a quality schedule and aren't afraid to play anyone and we've done damned well the last three years. The Big East does awfully good in bowl games for supposedly being such a shitty conference. We're 2-0 against the PAC 10 in the last couple years and did something that USC can't do.....win at Oregon State. Yep, we lost at OU, pretty badly. Everyone else did, too. We did score 26 pts on their defense though and not too many teams can say they've done that in Norman. I guess we'll see how it plays out this year. Back to topic though......Tony Pike is a legitimate Heisman candidate and with all of our nationally televised games later in the year I'm hoping that will be enough exposure to get him to NYC.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:50 am

Believe the Heupel wrote:
CintiBearcat92 wrote:it showed what they really needed to work on
What, everything but kick returns? Oh, and bombing it to Mardy Gilyard. That play worked OK too.

We got beat. It happens. Kinda like when West Virginia kicked your asses in that bowl game.....and USC. Show me a team that hasn't had their ass handed to them.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:12 am

Yep, maybe someone should call Bob and tell him how to quit pissing himself in big games.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:44 am

Cinti wrote: Show me a team that hasn't had their ass handed to them.

You probably don't want to go there, not with a fan of a team whose total margin of defeat in every game combined over the past seven seasons is less than what Cincy lost to OU by in one game last year.

Really good teams don't get their heads kicked in. They may lose here and there, but they never get destroyed.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:49 am

Sure they do......just ask OU. I'm sure I could give you a very long list of good teams that have had their asses kicked in the last few years but I honestly don't care enough to do that. This was a Heisman thread anyway and last time I checked Tony Pike only played a little bit in the fourth quarter of that game after Dustin Grutza was injured. Tony Pike is a helluva QB and last year's loss to OU has nothing to do with that at all.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:19 pm

Oh christ, Cincy cracks the top 25 and now we've got Bearcat representation?

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:35 pm

Bearcat = old school. Good to see you back bro

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:39 pm

I know about Bearcat, but he re-emerges after they're undefeated early in the season with Dantonio's recruits? :brad:

Whatever. Welcome back I guess.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:28 am

Dude, I wasn't here last year and we went to the Orange Bowl. I haven't posted on a board in a very long time so i thought it might be fun to get involved again. I'd say last year would have been a nice time to reemerge if I was frontrunning. Btw, Kelly is doing a much better job with some of Dantonio's recruits than he ever did.

PSUFAN, thanks man....nice to "see" you again!

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:31 am

CintiBearcat92 wrote:Btw, Kelly is doing a much better job with some of Dantonio's recruits than he ever did.

Yeah, it's funny how juniors and seniors are better than when they were freshmen and sophomores.

Shut the fuck up.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:33 am

Mace wrote:
CintiBearcat92 wrote:Yep, maybe someone should call Bob and tell him how to quit pissing himself in big games.
Unlike Cincy, at least Stoops is IN big games.

Last time I checked the Orange Bowl is a big game. Btw, I didn't think it was good enough to just make it to big games and get your ass kicked. Ohio State gets pounded on for getting it handed to them in two championship games but in OU's case it appears to be ok to just make it there. I'll be sure to dig this one back out when somebody gets their ass kicked in a bowl game and you jump their shit.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:36 am

Hmmm.... I always thought it took coaching to develop a player and make them better. Damn, thanks for letting me know that all they had to do was get to be a junior or senior and THEN they'd be better. You shut the fuck up.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:38 am

Shut the fuck up.

You shut the fuck up.

:paul: :paul: :paul:

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:45 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
Shut the fuck up.

You shut the fuck up.
:paul: :paul: :paul:

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:09 am

Yep, it's great to be back. Just the kind of welcome I expected :)

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:12 am

In all seriousness Bearcat, welcome. But what the fuck is up with that "Cinti?" nonsense.

CintiBearcat92 · Post by **CintiBearcat92** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:49 am

Thanks. I re-registered because I couldn't remember my old password and the email account I registered under years ago is long gone so I wouldn't have gotten any email reminding me of my password. Thought it was best to just start over. Nice win today by the way. That Forcier kid can play though....I was impressed by his toughness.

campinfool · Post by **campinfool** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:53 am

I guess we can scratch Keenum and the Cougs off any lists of any national importance. Houston is getting beat by UTEP of all people. UTEP has not looked good at all this year. How the hell can Houston look like a team on the rise and look so pathetic against a team who mustered less than 50 yards total offense the week before.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:26 am

Keenum throws for 500 yards and 4 tds only to have UH's defense yack all over themselves by giving up 300 yards rushing and 250 yards passing. Fucking horrible.

campinfool · Post by **campinfool** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:28 am

Sucks for him because no matter what kind of stats he is putting up, most voters will be mesmorized by the L against UTEP.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:31 am

campinfool wrote:Sucks for him because no matter what kind of stats he is putting up, most voters will be mesmorized by the L against UTEP.

I knew the defense was a big question mark going into the season. They showed their asses tonight. I had a feeling this might be a letdown game and it was. Oh well. There's always next year.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:55 pm

I know everyone wants to say that McCoy is in the running for the Heisman and of course right now he is.

But to be honest the best player on the Horn's roster is Colt's roommate. Shipley has not only been absolutely dominate, he has made Colt look real good when Colt otherwise hasn't looked that good.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:02 pm

Vito, something similar is true in the case of just about every team who boasts a Heisman candidate. Rarely is the Heisman QB truly even the best player on his own team. He's the QB, so he gets all the credit. That's it.