Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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TheJON
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Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by TheJON »

I'm gonna go a bit homer here and post a great article about my alleged man-crush Kirk Ferentz. Whatever. It's a great read, Hawkeye fan or not. As an Iowa fan, I couldn't be happier with the coach we have. He gets a lot of criticism for the money he makes because he's not competing for national titles, but I tell you what........I agree with this article in that he's worth the money he's making. There are a lot better programs than Iowa that would die to have a coach like Kirk Ferentz. The thought of what he could do with 4 and 5 star recruits is scary.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/i ... &status=ok
Iowa's Ferentz is right on the money

October 5, 2009 3:37 PM


Posted by ESPN.com's Adam Rittenberg

Any discussion about Iowa head coach Kirk Ferentz always traces back to his salary.

Let's be clear: college football coaches' salaries are out of control, swelling from the excessive to the absurd, but the fact that Iowa shells out more than $3 million a year for Ferentz really seems to strike a chord.
Stephen Mally/Icon SMI
Kirk Ferentz owns a 75-53 record during his time as Iowa's head coach.


Critics argue that Ferentz doesn't regularly challenge for national titles. They note that he has won only two Big Ten championships in 10 seasons as Hawkeyes head coach (2002 and 2004). They bring up the program's struggles both on and off the field between 2005-07, culminating with a wave of player arrests in 2007 and the early part of 2008. They say Ferentz's name looks out of place among the list of the 10 highest-paid college coaches.

And in some ways, they're right.

But they're also missing the bigger point.

By paying big bucks for Ferentz, Iowa distinguishes itself from comparable programs that lose good coaches to powerhouses and prevent long-term continuity and stability. Ferentz is the second-longest tenured coach in the Big Ten behind Penn State's Joe Paterno, and he's one of two men to lead Iowa's program in the last 30 years. He knows Iowa inside and out after serving as an assistant from 1981-89, and he has helped to shape the culture of an overachieving program.

Iowa faces several inherent obstacles outside of its control, namely a small in-state recruiting base. Well-compensated coaches like Pete Carroll, Mack Brown, Urban Meyer and even Jim Tressel make comparable salaries to Ferentz, but they recruit locally in California, Texas, Florida and Ohio, four of the more fertile states for top-level talent. The challenge for Ferentz in Iowa is much, much more daunting.

Under Ferentz, the Hawkeyes have been bowl eligible in each of the past eight seasons. They have appeared in five January bowl games since 2001 and have finished in the top half of the Big Ten in seven of the past eight seasons. They've had their hiccups, like in 2007, but it hasn't been the all-out disasters recently witnessed at Notre Dame, Michigan and the like.

At 5-0, Iowa is off to its best start under Ferentz, earning a No. 12 national ranking heading into Saturday night's showdown against Michigan (ABC, 8 p.m. ET).

For the most part, Ferentz doesn't just get the most out of his players, he gets more.

Look around the country as talent-stocked teams like Cal and Florida State implode at the first sign of trouble. Then look at the way Iowa rallied from 10-0 deficit on the road against Penn State at night to win the game based on defense, special teams and a ton of mental toughness.

To many, Ferentz's credentials don't translate into a $3 million salary, but consider the alternative. If Iowa doesn't pay, it could turn into Louisville or North Carolina or Michigan State or Washington State, programs that went downhill after losing successful coaches (Bobby Petrino, Brown, Nick Saban, Mike Price). Coaching change really stings, and some programs never recover.

Iowa has avoided the same fate.

Ferentz is in a great situation at Iowa. His name always comes up in talks for NFL coaching vacancies, and while he always leaves the door slightly ajar, he maintains his loyalty to the Hawkeyes. He uses his leverage, and he consistently gets rewarded.

What's so wrong with that?

Iowa might never be able to consistently compete for national titles, but by being a big-time payer, the school at least acts like a big-time player. So far, the approach has paid off.
There may be coaches with better records, but there isn't a better coach out there. To do what he's done at Iowa is amazing. I'm not only talking about on the field, I'm also including the revenues he's helped bring to this athletic department and the donations he makes to the university and charities. Iowa is a tough place to win. It takes a TRUE football coach to win here. Not some pretty boy that freeloads off Top 100 recruits. You have to know how to instill mental toughness in your players and you need to know how to develop those players. That's something very few college coaches have to do much of because they've got so much talent. No coach, and I mean no coach, gets more out of their players than Kirk and his staff. We may not be a so-called "elite" program, but Kirk and Hayden Fry have built this thing into a damn good football program and most teams out there would die to even come close to matching the success we've had over the last 30 years. And one day (soon), Kirk is going to lead this team to a national championship game (next year??).

Anyways, homerism finished.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Van »

Not some pretty boy that freeloads off Top 100 recruits.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by campinfool »

Gee if 8-4 makes you moist, then I'm afraid that John Mackovik should made me semi erect when he was at Texas. That article is absurd because they pump up what he has done at Iowa while not having the advantage of top notch recruits. But according to JON he puts so many 1st rounders a year in the NFL. Hmmm which one is right. Plus they try to make his bowl appearances and top 25 poll finshes seem worthy of his salary. Hell even a weirdo like Mike Leach at Texas Tech has done more with less than Ferenz. I'm glad you liike the guy, but from afar he doesn't impress a whole lot.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by TheJON »

I was going to give a serious response to campinfool until I saw that crap about Leach. How many Top 10 finishes and conference titles does Leach have? What a horrible take. 8-4? Yeah, except this will be Kirk's 5th year since 2002 of doing better than 8-4 but I don't wanna let facts get in the way here.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

For a guy who rips on the ranking system an awful lot, you sure do cherish those top 10 rankings.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:For a guy who rips on the ranking system an awful lot, you sure do cherish those top 10 rankings.
10 or more wins in those 3 years. The rankings are justified. I'm more critical of preseason rankings because it's all based on unproven hype. Postseason is different.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by King Crimson »

one Arkie State TD away from Fire Ferentz articles.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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King Crimson wrote:one Arkie State TD away from Fire Ferentz articles.
Arkansas State never had a chance to win that game. There was never a doubt who was going to win.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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King Crimson wrote:one Northern Iowa FG away from Fire Ferentz articles.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by TheJON »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
King Crimson wrote:one Northern Iowa FG away from Fire Ferentz articles.
Only by the local tards in Iowa. Sure, a lot of dolts around here would have been calling for the coaches head but not me. I told you after that game it was not panic time. Many Iowa fans and media members here did panic. 4 games later, we're still unbeaten.

Fans here want to fire the coach after every loss. Drives me nuts. The meltdowns get irritating. I wish they would ban Iowa message boards. It's unreadable crap when we lose games.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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TheJON wrote:It's unreadable crap when we lose games.
When you lose games?

If memory serves, in the past, when you've lost games, you've gone into hiding mJew-style. You've bashed Ferentz in the recent past. Now that Iowa is 5-0, you're slobbering over his mancunt hairs again. Do you just WANT the bandwagon label?
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

I like Ferentz and the way he carries himself, I just don't buy he's the best coach in the country. There is literally no way to measure that, anway, so I generally laugh at such things. I think he plays down to his competition an awful lot which to me is not a mark of "the best" coach in the country, and I don't believe his talent well is quite as dry as you make it out to be. Just because Scout isn't jacking their dicks to Iowa recruits doesn't mean Ferentz isn't able to load up on quality cornfed linemen -- which is where the foundation for success starts, up front in the trenches.
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Post by Van »

Plus, the fact is he's never won a Big 10 title. Iowa fan can claim it from the hilltops, but just like Cal can't claim the '06 Pac 10 title without people laughing at them so too can't Iowa claim the Big 10 title.

On the hand of Jim Delany, the winner of the Big 10 plays in one of two bowls: The Rose Bowl, or the BCS title game; except for the 2006 Rose Bowl, which was the national title game for the 2005 season. That year, the Big 10's champion played in the Fiesta Bowl.

Iowa 'shared' their two titles, and in neither year were they the real champions of the league. In the 2002 season Ohio St ran the table and ended up winning the BCS title, while Iowa got stomped by USC in a lesser BCS bowl. Nobody in their right mind considers Iowa to be Big 10 champs that season. In 2004 Iowa and Michigan finished with 7-1 records, sure, but Michigan beat Iowa head to head, so they won the Big 10 title. Michigan went to the Rose Bowl, and Iowa went to some credit card bowl.

Iowa has never won the Big 10 under Kirk Ferentz.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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Iowa has never won the Big 10 under Kirk Ferentz.
That's odd. I have seen 2 trophies in our trophy case. They must be fake.

As for the 2002 season........

We went 8-0 in conference. We blew out 6 of those 8 opponents. If that isn't worthy of a conference crown, I don't know what is. I'm not exactly sure how a team could win every conference game they play and not be champions. I suppose 100% isn't good enough for everyone. And don't bring up the Miami-USC-Iowa State argument. Those aren't CONFERENCE games. If we went 0-4 out of conference, but still went 8-0 in conference, we're still conference champs. That's ridiculous.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Van »

Uhh, Iowa wasn't the only team to go 8-0 in conference play that year in the Big 10. One other team did so as well, and that other team also went undefeated on the year, going on to win the national title.

That team would be your Big 10 champs for 2002. They also have a trophy in their case, along with the acknowledgement by the rest of the country that they won the Big 10 - and everything else - that year.

Kirk Ferentz = Good coach who's never won the Big 10.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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Uhh, Iowa wasn't the only team to go 8-0 in conference play that year in the Big 10. One other team did so as well, and that other team also went undefeated on the year, going on to win the national title.
So? OOC has NOTHING to do with your conference standings. Iowa went 8-0. What else exactly were we supposed to do? We won every conference game we played. So did Ohio State. We're both conference champs. Period. End of story. Blame Jim Delaney for not having a conference championship game, not Iowa.

As for 2004, yeah we lost to Michigan but we're still Co-Champs according to the rules.

You can't blame Iowa for CFB and the Big-10 having fucked up rules. I could argue no team has EVER won a national title, but by rule they have.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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Jesus H Christ on a cracker.....Iowa goes 5-0 thus far and Jon's all over this bitch like M2 on a photo tangent.

Talking about a mancrush on a coach, Iowa's fully loaded trophy cases, price of corn being up in Iowa cuz, in his spare time, Ferentz bio-engineered the best variety of corn in the Big Ten, etc. etc.

Iowa goes 7-0 and I fully expect Jon to be talking about Ferentz' enormous black cock and how it's the largest in the Big 10.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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Van wrote:Uhh, Iowa wasn't the only team to go 8-0 in conference play that year in the Big 10. One other team did so as well, and that other team also went undefeated on the year, going on to win the national title.

That team would be your Big 10 champs for 2002. They also have a trophy in their case, along with the acknowledgement by the rest of the country that they won the Big 10 - and everything else - that year.

Kirk Ferentz = Good coach who's never won the Big 10.
Dude, are you pulling a Jsc trolljob here? If you want to bash the Big 1(1) as a conference for not having a) a round robin format or b) a CCG in order to avoid co-champions, then bash away. It is pretty stupid, after all. And I will even grant that when one "co-champ" beats the other "co-champ," that's not a co-championship at all. But like Jon said, Iowa finished 8-0 in the Big 1(1) in 2002 and have every right to claim a co-championship that year. It's not their fault (at least not directly) that they play in the only FBS conference so bass-ackwards that it can produce two 8-0 teams...
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:I like Ferentz and the way he carries himself, I just don't buy he's the best coach in the country. There is literally no way to measure that, anway, so I generally laugh at such things. I think he plays down to his competition an awful lot which to me is not a mark of "the best" coach in the country, and I don't believe his talent well is quite as dry as you make it out to be. Just because Scout isn't jacking their dicks to Iowa recruits doesn't mean Ferentz isn't able to load up on quality cornfed linemen -- which is where the foundation for success starts, up front in the trenches.
You bring up good points. Iowa does have more talent than most would think. But that's due to player development. Many of our good players probably never would have amounted to much at other schools. At Iowa, you simply cannot win without a good coach that knows how to develop players. It starts with the head coach on down to the position coaches and Chris Doyle, our strength and conditioning coach (he's as good as anyone in the business). You bring just an average coach to Iowa, even one that recruits better talent than Ferentz, and they fall flat on their face. Why do you think we pay him so much? Because there's few guys out there that could do as well as he's doing. Our AD knows what it takes to win at Iowa and he knows he'd have a heck of a time finding a guy that is as capable as Kirk is. We know we have to pay the man to keep him.

As for the playing down to the opponent comment, I would agree with this a bit. However, that's not always true. We lay the wood to a lot of bad teams too. It's not like every shit opponent we face, we struggle with. The Arkansas State game was more a case of being sandwiched between Penn State and Michigan. What do you expect? These are 18-22 year olds. And the UNI game was the first game against a team that's better than you think and was incredibly motivated to beat Iowa. It happens. Emotion is a big part of CFB whether you want to admit it or not. But I will say I think Kirk's teams occasionally do play down to opponents even in times where it's not a trap game. But every coach has a fault somewhere. It may not seem like guys like Urban Meyer have faults, but they do. It's just impossible to not win almost all of your games with that much talent so certain things get overlooked.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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Iowa goes 7-0 and I fully expect Jon to be talking about Ferentz' enormous black cock and how it's the largest in the Big 10.
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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TheJON wrote:So? OOC has NOTHING to do with your conference standings. Iowa went 8-0. What else exactly were we supposed to do? We won every conference game we played. So did Ohio State. We're both conference champs. Period. End of story. Blame Jim Delaney for not having a conference championship game, not Iowa.
Van,

Please tell me you are trolling. Iowa was co-champ that year. You can't take that away. As much as I like to bust jon's balls, he is right here. Iowa won every conference game. They were conference champs. You can recycle your last take, but it does not change history. Iowa did have a few good years. Though I would not go with "great" but for this one.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Van »

Couple points...

Ferentz is always listed as having won two Big 10 titles. Clearly, he did not even share one in 2004. That one is pure window dressing, like giving every team in little league a 'feel good' trophy, because they're all winners!

Michigan won that title.

Yes, in 2002 Iowa is at least technically co-champs of the Big 10. I will give them that, obviously. They didn't lose head to head to the co-champ, like they did in '04. The point is simply that they didn't beat the best team in their league that year, and that team finished with the same conference record.

So, great, while Iowa is technically a co-champ that year, WGARA? We all know Ohio St was the real Big 10 champion that season, even if they were forced to share their award with another team.

If people really want to hang on the technicality then fine, Iowa has one Big 10 co-championship under Ferentz. Not two...one, and it's only a co-championship, earned as a result of not having to play Ohio St.

Pretty sure though that Ohio St isn't exactly sweating that half of the one, considering they know who the real champs were that season, and they too have a trophy to prove it.

Oh, and for the record, I don't consider USC to have seven straight Pac 10 titles either, as is the claim always bandied about by the media. In 2002 they shared that title with WSU, who beat USC head to head, so that title is WSU's, straight up. USC should not count that title. USC didn't share it in 2002, just like Cal didn't share it in 2006. There are no co-champs in the Pac 10.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by TheJON »

I will tell Kirk to remove the trophies since Van says they didn't really win them. Nice to see Van decides who does or does not win titles. Iowa goes 15-1 in conference those 2 years and that's not even good enough for him. Big-10 Titles are based on your conference standing and Iowa finished with as good of a conference record as anyone those years. That makes them co-champs. Iowa was every bit as much of a Big-10 champion those years as ANY team that's ever been crowned national title was a national champion. This is how CFB works, Van- don't rip Iowa because of that. Blame the NCAA. 15-1.....tough crowd today!
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Van »

Iowa was 7-1. Michigan was 7-1. Nobody else in the conference had an equal or better record.

So, it came down to Iowa and Michigan, who, as it turned out, had in fact played each other that season. Michigan won. Michigan's loss came at the hands of someone with whom they didn't end up in a tie.

Hey, whaddya know, a tie-breaker! Maybe they could go with the head to head result between the two teams - the only two teams - with the same record!

Novel fucking concept. Pretty sure that head to head tie-breaker thingie played a large role come bowl season, when Iowa found themselves constantly being asked, "What's in your wallet?"

Meanwhile, Michigan could've smugly answered, "Roses."
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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TheJON wrote: You bring just an average coach to Iowa, even one that recruits better talent than Ferentz, and they fall flat on their face. Why do you think we pay him so much? Because there's few guys out there that could do as well as he's doing. Our AD knows what it takes to win at Iowa and he knows he'd have a heck of a time finding a guy that is as capable as Kirk is. We know we have to pay the man to keep him.
interesting premise to hold considering the sample size. iowa's had two coaches in your lifetime. for all the resources you brag about at iowa's disposal, you'd think they could ratchet things up a bit from the status quo where ferentz is holding fort.

if ferentz had access to 4- and 5-stars, he'd be lloyd carr.

van's putting the horse before the cart here with his claim about 2002's real champion. we don't all know who would have won between osu and iowa, and the bowl season isn't the tie-breaker you seem to think it is. a more legitimate comparison would be common opponents, like, say, michigan, who osu was a 20-yard desperation pass from losing to but whom iowa butt raped in ann arbor. there are six other common opponents to base similar comparisons, whereas osu was just as likely to lose to SC as iowa did.

2004, however, is a feel-good trophy. head-to-head carries a bit of weight.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by M Club »

also, what's a non-gay mancrush? i thought man crush was, by definition, non-gay.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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TheJON wrote:I'm gonna go a bit homer here
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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I have a lot of respect for Ferentz, and I'd be happy to see him succeed Joe Paterno at PSU. All indications are that he will stay at Iowa for the duration of his career.

I'm glad to read that your mancrush is non-gay, JON. That concept seems a bit dubious to me, but then again I have no rooting interest where your mangina is concerned - If your wife straps on and probes it, or if Mace stops over and churns your butter with a cattle prod - it's all the fucking same to me.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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interesting premise to hold considering the sample size. iowa's had two coaches in your lifetime. for all the resources you brag about at iowa's disposal, you'd think they could ratchet things up a bit from the status quo where ferentz is holding fort.

if ferentz had access to 4- and 5-stars, he'd be lloyd carr.
We do have the resources, but we don't have the long-time traditions or a good in-state recruiting base.

You have to have 1 of the following to consistently recruit 4 and 5 stars in CFB......

1.Be a traditional power that established themselves 40+ years ago
and/or
2.Have great talent in your home state

Iowa doesn't have either. And to do what we've done under Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz is nothing short of amazing. No one else that doesn't meet that criteria has done better than Iowa has since Hayden arrived in Iowa City.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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Sudden Sam wrote:Granted, I did jump JON when he suggested that Iowa's program was on a par with Alabama's. He had obviously ingested a few too many glasses of potent Iowa bovine-generated mushroom tea when he suggested that. I can excuse that.

I respect the Hawkeye program. Generally, Ferentz produces decent teams.

But I could never be happy with a guy who goes 7-5 on average.
Iowa's program at the time WAS on par with Bama. I never said historically they were.

As for going 7-5..........Kirk's built this into a program where 7-5 is a disappointment. Remember, he started 1-18.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Van »

Head to head breaks the tie, always.

Rose Bowls vs Capital One Bowls confirm it.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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I wore my 2004 Big-10 title shirt to the gym this morning in honor of Van! I ran sprints like a co-champion today!
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Van »

TheJON wrote:I wore my 2004 Big-10 title shirt to the gym this morning in honor of Van! I ran sprints like a co-champion today!
:lol:

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Killian
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Killian »

Van wrote:Head to head breaks the tie, always.

Rose Bowls vs Capital One Bowls confirm it.
Well then I guess USC didn't win the National Championship in 2003. BCS Championship game confirms it.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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TheJON wrote:
interesting premise to hold considering the sample size. iowa's had two coaches in your lifetime. for all the resources you brag about at iowa's disposal, you'd think they could ratchet things up a bit from the status quo where ferentz is holding fort.

if ferentz had access to 4- and 5-stars, he'd be lloyd carr.
We do have the resources, but we don't have the long-time traditions or a good in-state recruiting base.

You have to have 1 of the following to consistently recruit 4 and 5 stars in CFB......

1.Be a traditional power that established themselves 40+ years ago
and/or
2.Have great talent in your home state

Iowa doesn't have either. And to do what we've done under Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz is nothing short of amazing. No one else that doesn't meet that criteria has done better than Iowa has since Hayden arrived in Iowa City.
my point is that you seem to believe only ferentz could have pulled off this iowa gig as well as he has. and honestly, he hasn't blown anyone away. take away those three seasons you reference quite a bit and what numbers to have to point to now?

lots of coaches win with no in-state talent or tradition to sell. dickrod at west virginia is one example. don james at udub? mccartney at colorado?

the thing that doesn't really impress me about ferentz is that he has a model that works - over-emphasis on the lines - but for some reason can't consistently put together good ones. if he could then you guys would be wisconsin, considering the level they've been able to sustain with poor in-state talent and shite tradition.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Van »

Killian wrote:
Van wrote:Head to head breaks the tie, always.

Rose Bowls vs Capital One Bowls confirm it.
Well then I guess USC didn't win the National Championship in 2003. BCS Championship game confirms it.
How does that even begin to follow, since there was no head to head meeting between USC and LSU?

Dude, try harder. That was awful.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Killian »

Van wrote:
Killian wrote:
Van wrote:Head to head breaks the tie, always.

Rose Bowls vs Capital One Bowls confirm it.
Well then I guess USC didn't win the National Championship in 2003. BCS Championship game confirms it.
How does that even begin to follow, since there was no head to head meeting between USC and LSU?

Dude, try harder. That was awful.
Ironic, considering your arguments in this thread. When there's a tie for the big ten title, do you know how they determine who goes to the Rose Bowl? Now, it's head to head. It used to be who had the longest drought between appearances.

Iowa has two co-championships under Ferentz.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Van »

It used to be that they went with the team that hadn't been to the Rose Bowl in the longest time, but IIRC that was in the case of a three-way tie, not a two-way tie.

Not sure how they do it now.

Regardless, in '04 Michigan held the tie-breaker over Iowa, in the minds of the Rose Bowl committee. Michigan had just been to the Rose Bowl the previous year, so the "least recent team" thing obviously wasn't a factor in their selection.

The point is that USC-LSU didn't play head to head in '03, which was my point with Iowa-Michigan in '04, so your analogy falls completely flat.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

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You're right, it does fall flat. Then again, both Iowa and UofM have trophies from that year, and only LSU has the crystal football.
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Re: Non-gay mancrush on Ferentz

Post by Killian »

Mace wrote:So, Van, what about '02 when Iowa and OSU were both 8-0 in the conference. Do you now consider Iowa to be the legitimate co-champion since they didn't go head to head?
Yeah, he already back tracked on that one.
"Well, my wife assassinated my sexual identity, and my children are eating my dreams." -Louis CK
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