New AP poll........

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:39 pm

Few points...

-There's not a chance in hell OU goes from #20 to #3 in one week, just for beating untested, unproven Texas. No way. Nobody jumps 17 spots within the Top 25, ever, much less a two loss team over a bunch of one loss teams. Keep in mind that USC plays ND in South Bend this week, and ND is a media favorite again, so if USC beats them there won't be a chance in hell OU leapfrogs USC, who would already own road wins against Ohio St, Cal and ND.

-Right now I'd swap Bama and Florida. Not that it means anything - at all - but Bama has been the more impressive team so far.

-I'd put Iowa, TCU and Oregon above LSU.

-I'd put Boise behind Cincy.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:37 pm

11 Iowa 6-0 919
To me, Iowa is getting fucked harder than anybody. They've played some cupcakes, but beating PSU and and much improved UM tells me they should AT LEAST be at #7. I'd be mad as fuck at this if I were a Hawkeye fan.

It's hard to get too mad about our ranking when we're #11. If we take care of business, things will work there way out in the polls.

I just don't see how any objective person could honestly vote LSU ahead of Iowa. Same goes for Boise State, and you could make arguments of Iowa over tOSU, USC, and Cincinnati as well.

But like I said, we'll have our chances to move our way up the polls.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:03 pm

Papa Willie wrote: I'd forgotten about Cincy going to Oregon State and beating them. That definitely validates their spot a little more.

Yeah, but OS is always a cupcake in the first 3 games.

And there's no more sure of a bet in all of sports than a 1-2 OS team winning their 4th game, regardless of opponent.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:32 pm

FWIW, the Sagarins:

1 Florida
2 Alabama
3 Virginia Tech
4 Southern California
5 Boise State
6 Oregon
7 Nebraska
8 Ohio State
9 Iowa
10 Cincinnati
11 LSU
12 Miami-Florida
13 TCU
14 Texas
15 Georgia Tech
16 Oklahoma
17 Notre Dame
18 Utah
19 Auburn
20 Arizona

For goodness' sake Texas, play somebody.

As far as conferences...

1 PAC10
2 SEC

and a pretty decent dropoff after that.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:29 pm

About the same as Ole Miss and LSU were the 4th best teams in the country.

Not really.

Harvdog · Post by **Harvdog** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:40 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
For goodness' sake Texas, play somebody.

We tried but Utah and Arkansas pussed out.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:31 am

I'm not sure where to slot Florida right now. That game was rather anti-climatic last night. I'm not sure if Florida's defense played great or LSU's offense is that horrible. I know LSU's defense is good, but their offense made Florida's D look unstoppable.

I'm thinking Florida is missing the homerun threat and can't outscore opponents in a shootout. They will be stuck in close low scoring games when facing a formadable opponent.

Texas' offense is turning into another Chris Simms saga. Simms was so fixated on his first receiver when going through his progressions and that is why he never lived up to his potential. McCoy is doing the same with Shipley. He is not trying to get everyone involved in the offense. Shipley is thrown to a lot more than the other receivers and backs and its actually hurting the Longhorns offense. Texas can't win against OU and the Pokes if they keep this up. McCoy has to snap out of his manlove for Shipley.

'Bama's defense is good. Very good. That secondary is probably the best in the league. Nobody has been able to stop Ryan Mallet except for Bama. That shows me something. 'Bama also has two pro-style runningbacks and a frosh QB who protects the ball. That makes for a legit title run. I'm leaning towards them as the #1 team in the country right now.

The Big XII is down. The BigTen is down. I think Cincy has an outside shot should they come out unscathed in the Big East.

Right now, I think the winner of the SEC and ???? end up in the MNC. That is a huge ?.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:05 pm

Van wrote:I'd put Boise behind Cincy.

that's a game I'd love to see

Jsc810 wrote:Boise is the 5th best team in the country.

Really.

that's what the pollsters say.....

but I know you disagree so what I think you should do is go on a letter writing campaign and make it your goal to contact every voting sports writer in the country and tell them how badly they've overestimated Boise State...seriously, it wouldn't be that tough...just write a one letter fits all then mass mail it to all the major newspapers/sport outlets....start it off with a bang-something like

Dear whoever has their head stuck up their ass
good luck

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:33 pm

Go Coogs' wrote:I'm not sure where to slot Florida right now. That game was rather anti-climatic last night. I'm not sure if Florida's defense played great or LSU's offense is that horrible. I know LSU's defense is good, but their offense made Florida's D look unstoppable.

They should be #1 or #2. Their offense isn't as explosive as it was last season, but their defense is damn good.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:00 pm

Papa Willie wrote:God damn, y'all. I was kidding. But seriously - you'll see them jump up at least 7 spots (which is too much IMHO).

I'd forgotten about Cincy going to Oregon State and beating them. That definitely validates their spot a little more.

The pathetic thing is a 3-3 OU team will still be ranked.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:13 pm

Harvdog wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:
For goodness' sake Texas, play somebody.
We tried but Utah and Arkansas pussed out.

Texcuses

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:50 pm

I wouldn't be quick to dethrone the mighty Tebows based on half a season of play. This is still Florida, people, and last I checked they've still got The Holy One at qb who will eventually start playing out of his mind again, and a ridiculously good defense. Admittedly, Bama has the better resume up to this point, but I think realistically Bama is a poor man's Florida. They are a very solid #2 though.

I fell into this same trap as some of you are last year, believing Bama was the best team in the SEC. We saw how that turned out.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:18 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:I can see Iowa being ranked above LSU and Miami.

They should be.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:32 pm

Jsc810 wrote:Can both teams in the BCS championship game be from the same conference? Just wondering.

They could, but it won't happen this year. If UF and 'Bama are both undefeated on 12/5, then the SEC Championship game loser won't be going to the National Championship.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:59 pm

MuchoBulls wrote:
Jsc810 wrote:Can both teams in the BCS championship game be from the same conference? Just wondering.
They could, but it won't happen this year. If UF and 'Bama are both undefeated on 12/5, then the SEC Championship game loser won't be going to the National Championship.

In no way is that a certainty.

If there are no other undefeateds from BCS conferences then the loser of that game will very likely still have more overall BCS points than any other one loss team. The key is that the game be compelling enough to where the loser doesn't fall very far.

This is similar to '06, with Michigan and OSU, with two key differences: 1-The loser here will be from the SEC, instead of the Big 10. The SEC has way more pull right now with the BCS. 2-The loser here will be from the SEC, which gives them more pull than ony other one loss team from any other conference. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter. That's just how it is.

When Bama's only loss is to #1 Florida, and they lost in a good game, which other one loss team is going to get in ahead of them? Heading into that SEC CCG Bama will have an enormous BCS points advantage over any one loss team. With a 'good' loss they won't fall very far at all.

Nope, if Bama and Florida are both undefeated entering the SEC CCG then the only way there won't be a rematch for the title will be if:

-There is an undefeated sitting out there from a BCS conference.

-The loser of the SEC CCG gets killed in that game. Then, yes, some other one loss team could leapfrog them. If it's a good, close game though, forget about it. You're getting a rematch for the title.

Why wouldn't the BCS do that? Texas as a one loss team has no resume to speak of. USC as a one loss team has something to say, but still it'll come down to BCS points, and Bama's points advantage would be enormous. A close loss to Florida will not hurt them like USC is hurt by their loss to Washington.

Who else is there? No way in hell a one loss team from the ACC, Big 10 or Big East gets in over a one loss team from the SEC. What, are they going to put one loss Va Tech in over one loss Bama, when Va Tech's loss came at the hands of Bama?

If the nation doesn't want to see an SEC CCG rematch in the BCS title game then the nation had better root for Texas to run the table. That's your best bet for getting someone else into the title game. That may end up being the only bet, unless someone in the Organ Grinder steps up and tags losses on Bama and Florida.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:42 pm

Jsc810 wrote:

But Boise deserves to be ranked higher. Really.

I know, that's why they are

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:12 am

That works just as well, Sam. If they're both undefeated they'll both have such an enormous lead in the BCS that as as long as it's a close game the loser will still get in over any other one loss team in the land.

For the record, I think Florida is better than Bama, and will beat Bama in the CCG, but I do think Bama deserves the #1 spot over them right now.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:56 am

Van wrote:When Bama's only loss is to #1 Florida, and they lost in a good game, which other one loss team is going to get in ahead of them? Heading into that SEC CCG Bama will have an enormous BCS points advantage over any one loss team. With a 'good' loss they won't fall very far at all.

The game will be played on neutral field and indoors, so the loser of the game shouldn't get a second shot. Agree that the loser wouldn't fall far, but they had their chance.

It would just be nice for the BCS to implement a rule requiring a team to be a conference champion in order to play in the National Championship game.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:11 am

MuchoBulls wrote:
Van wrote:When Bama's only loss is to #1 Florida, and they lost in a good game, which other one loss team is going to get in ahead of them? Heading into that SEC CCG Bama will have an enormous BCS points advantage over any one loss team. With a 'good' loss they won't fall very far at all.
The game will be played on neutral field and indoors, so the loser of the game shouldn't get a second shot. Agree that the loser wouldn't fall far, but they had their chance.

It would just be nice for the BCS to implement a rule requiring a team to be a conference champion in order to play in the National Championship game.

See, now you're talking "should." That's not what you were saying before. You were saying they wouldn't, not they shouldn't.

I'm only talking "would," not "should."

Capice?

:D

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:08 pm

Van wrote:
MuchoBulls wrote:
Van wrote:When Bama's only loss is to #1 Florida, and they lost in a good game, which other one loss team is going to get in ahead of them? Heading into that SEC CCG Bama will have an enormous BCS points advantage over any one loss team. With a 'good' loss they won't fall very far at all.
The game will be played on neutral field and indoors, so the loser of the game shouldn't get a second shot. Agree that the loser wouldn't fall far, but they had their chance.

It would just be nice for the BCS to implement a rule requiring a team to be a conference champion in order to play in the National Championship game.
See, now you're talking "should." That's not what you were saying before. You were saying they wouldn't, not they shouldn't.

I'm only talking "would," not "should."

Capice?

:D

The "should" was in response to your proposed situation. I am sure the media would run with the "rematch" angle if UF-'Bama play a close SEC CG.

In reality, the SEC would not get another shot. 88 brought up the exact thing I said in my earlier post that the SEC CG would be on a neutral field and indoors, so the loser has no gripes about a rematch.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:25 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:I don't see the loser of the SEC title game getting a rematch. And I really wouldn't want that to happen.

I want ~~Alabama~~(my bad...sorry) the SEC champ to embarrass another league's top team...again.

:wink:

If Florida won, the odds of a rematch would be much slimmer than they will be when 'Bama wins. Like it or not, the Tebows will have the clout to overcome a championship loss, the Tide would be relegated to just being one of the other one win teams.

Fucking popularity contests suck.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:00 pm

for JSC and all the others praying for Boise to lose

tonight you're Golden Hurricane fans

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:08 pm

Tulsa, Blount the Broncs!

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:13 pm

Tulsa never comes through. they've been in this situation a few times in the more recent Golden Hurricane ascendancy with Kragthorpe/Graham. They've had Memphis somewhat on the ropes in hoops a couple times in a "big C-USA" matchup (somewhat analogous situation to possibly end the Memphis reign of terror on the gutted C-USA) and folded or got run out of the gym every time.

plus, having seen the OU-Tulsa game not sure they are very good.

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:20 pm

King Crimson wrote:Tulsa never comes through. they've been in this situation a few times in the more recent Golden Hurricane ascendancy with Kragthorpe/Graham. They've had Memphis somewhat on the ropes in hoops a couple times in a "big C-USA" matchup (somewhat analogous situation to possibly end the Memphis reign of terror on the gutted C-USA) and folded or got run out of the gym every time.

plus, having seen the OU-Tulsa game not sure they are very good.

Tulsa hoops rocked under Tubby Smith and Bill Self, though.

Somehow Tulsa is on a four-year bowl streak. Who can forget that 63-7 takedown of Bowling Green in the GMAC Bowl?

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:29 pm

Mucho, you still haven't given a reason why the loser of the SEC CCG couldn't get a rematch. The fact that the game was played on a neutral field has little to no bearing. The fact is, it'll be about BCS points. Both those undefeated teams will have a ginormous points advantage over any one loss team.

Remember, I've already allowed that an undefeated BCS conference team would get in over the loser of the SEC CCG game. The scenario I'm describing involves there being no other undefeated BCS conference teams. When Bama and Florida play each other they'd be the only undefeateds in the land from a BCS conference.

So, yeah, they'd have just an incredibly huge points lead over any one loss team you'd care to mention. The #3 BCS team in that scenario would be miles behind both Bama and Florida.

Once the game was over, and assuming it was a good, close game, what one loss team would overtake the loser of that game? The loser of that game's lone loss is still going to trump any other one loss team's loss, by far. Their initial points advantage will still leave them with more BCS points than #3 will have.

Also, they're still the SEC. This will not be like Michigan-Ohio St. The media perception that these are the two best teams will not be dimmed by one of the teams losing to the other in a close one. It'll likely just confirm their perception.

You keep saying it won't happen. I'm telling you, if it plays out the way I'm describing it then not only could it happen, it will happen. The loser of that game will not fall to #3 behind some other one loss team, and there is no stipulation in effect right now requiring a BCS title game participant to be a conference champion. It's still just #1 vs #2 in the final regular season BCS rankings - including the CCGs - and under the scenario I described Bama and Florida would remain #'s 1 and 2.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:40 pm

Van wrote:Mucho, you still haven't given a reason why the loser of the SEC CCG couldn't get a rematch.

I said earlier that I wish the BCS would put the stipulation that you have to at least win your conference in order to play for the National Championship.

Nebraska and OU shouldn't have played for the Championship in the years they went because they didn't win their Conference.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:42 pm

Van wrote:Mucho, you still haven't given a reason why the loser of the SEC CCG couldn't get a rematch.

I could see Florida losing a close one to Alabama getting in. I don't think they would deserve it, but it could happen. TSPN would be lobbying for it for damn sure. And they have more influence than you think. All this assuming t.u. does not run the table.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:53 pm

Degenerate wrote: Tulsa hoops rocked under Tubby Smith and Bill Self, though.

Nolan Richardson in the early 80's, too. google some Tulsa era Nolan pics, some sweet threads. Nolan beat Tubbs at OU at least two times I can remember. but yeah, they were Gonzaga before there was Gonzaga in the era you are talking about. they had a couple Sweet 16's. and continued to be a stepping stone for coaches to big-time jobs even after that. they have a very nice hoops tradition...though down for a while mostly due to coaching instability and OU and OSU being legit top 15-20 teams the last decade as per recruiting.

Tulsa is all right in football. a quality mid-major. OK State is afraid to play them.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:02 pm

King Crimson wrote:

Tulsa is all right in football. a quality mid-major. OK State is afraid to play them.

should be an interesting game...I can promise you one thing though, if they play (and I use that term completely figuratively because it was more akin to sleepwalking) like they did against UC Davis, Tulsa will kick their asses

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:04 pm

If ANYONE plays UC Davis and doesn't cream them, they do not deserve to be in a BCS bowl.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:11 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:If ANYONE plays UC Davis and doesn't cream them, they do not deserve to be in a BCS bowl.

et tu IF?

apparently they lucked out that nobody bothered watching that game (available on ESPN 360 only), because if any of the current voters had, Boise would have plummeted to about 24

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:13 pm

They are now the Gonzaga of CFB. They's had a few good years of basically playing nobody. They got a chance TO play somebody (OU) and won. They now are getting some slack.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:18 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:They are now the Gonzaga of CFB. They's had a few good years of basically playing nobody. They got a chance TO play somebody (OU) and won. They now are getting some slack.

probably right...if you look at their overall bowl record, it's actually pretty abysmal
they'll keep riding that "blue-collar undersized David" pony til she bucks em off...oh and having a novelty field doesn't hurt either

let me see a show of hands, who hasn't heard the "don't adjust your televisions, the field is actually blue" spiel everytime ESPN shows a Boise home game?

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:20 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Degenerate wrote: Tulsa hoops rocked under Tubby Smith and Bill Self, though.
Nolan Richardson in the early 80's, too. google some Tulsa era Nolan pics, some sweet threads. Nolan beat Tubbs at OU at least two times I can remember. but yeah, they were Gonzaga before there was Gonzaga in the era you are talking about. they had a couple Sweet 16's. and continued to be a stepping stone for coaches to big-time jobs even after that. they have a very nice hoops tradition...though down for a while mostly due to coaching instability and OU and OSU being legit top 15-20 teams the last decade as per recruiting.

Tulsa is all right in football. a quality mid-major. OK State is afraid to play them.

I'm only old, errr, experienced enough to remember Nolan at Arkansas, but he's always been one of my favorites. He played the victim card a few too many times and that rubbed writers the wrong way, but Nolan won and won big with some pretty average talent. Scoreless Williamson was supposed to be his big "star." Yeah, right. Corey Beck and Clint McDaniel as his starting backcourt on the national champs? C'mon. Dude owned the Memphis region for years.

I have seen Tulsa a few times at Kemper in the NCAAs. They always travel well and are loyal to the core, no matter what coach is there eyeing the next big opportunity. Wish they hadn't blown it against a shitty UNC in the regional final in 2000.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:34 pm

Degenerate wrote: I'm only old, errr, experienced enough to remember Nolan at Arkansas, but he's always been one of my favorites. He played the victim card a few too many times and that rubbed writers the wrong way, but Nolan won and won big with some pretty average talent. Scoreless Williamson was supposed to be his big "star." Yeah, right. Corey Beck and Clint McDaniel as his starting backcourt on the national champs? C'mon. Dude owned the Memphis region for years.

I have seen Tulsa a few times at Kemper in the NCAAs. They always travel well and are loyal to the core, no matter what coach is there eyeing the next big opportunity. Wish they hadn't blown it against a shitty UNC in the regional final in 2000.

well, i started going to OU games when i 6 or so....so, i remember a lot beyond my relative "experience" (though i'm shocked by how much of that i've got.....and all of what i remember is not necessarily always accurate as i've also learned...heh).

i thought Todd Day was on the NC team, guess not. Williamson was a good college player, just undersized at his position in the NBA. if you are 6' 9" (really closer to 6' 7") there's not a post position for you in "the League"....Lonny Baxter, Aaron McGhee, and Sam Clancy all come to mind as in the same vein).

not a lot of half-court, point guard walks the ball up-court, then pass the ball around the perimeter until there's 15 seconds on the shot-clock style sets in the Tubbs-Richardson matchups, as you can imagine.

sorry to threadjack.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:44 pm

MuchoBulls wrote:
Van wrote:Mucho, you still haven't given a reason why the loser of the SEC CCG couldn't get a rematch.
I said earlier that I wish the BCS would put the stipulation that you have to at least win your conference in order to play for the National Championship.

Nebraska and OU shouldn't have played for the Championship in the years they went because they didn't win their Conference.

That's neither here nor there. Your wishing for it hasn't yet made it so. There is still no rule in place requiring a team to be a conference champion before it may play in the BCS title game.

Again you're dealing in shoulds when we're talking woulds. In the real world as it's still presently constituted you're going to get Bama vs Florida in a rematch for all the marbles, if the scenario I described should come to fruition.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:46 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
Van wrote:Mucho, you still haven't given a reason why the loser of the SEC CCG couldn't get a rematch.
I could see Florida losing a close one to Alabama getting in. I don't think they would deserve it, but it could happen. TSPN would be lobbying for it for damn sure. And they have more influence than you think. All this assuming t.u. does not run the table.

You think an undefeated TCU would get in over a one loss Florida or Bama, who looked good in their lone defeat to the #1 team?

I don't. I think TCU would get Utah'd.

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Van wrote:Their initial points advantage will still leave them with more BCS points than #3 will have.

Sure, if just about every poll and computer ranks the loser at #2 after the game. If there is no consensus "next-in-line" team, i can see this happening. Otherwise, I'm not buying that the loser automatically stays at #2.

Unlike the Ohio State-Michigan example, the SEC CCG is on the last day before the final BCS rankings. IMO, most pollsters minds about who should be #2 will be made up before the game even kicks off. If there is a one-loss team sitting there at #3 that hasn't lost in over six weeks and is rolling, and enough pollsters out there don't want a rematch, the SEC CCG loser is getting bumped.

FWIW, I would love nothing more than to see Florida and Alabama play twice for the MNC. I thought we couldn't get more absurd than Nebraska in '01, but this may top it.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:23 pm

Again, I'm pretty sure most pollsters are going to be expecting a Fla. win. If that happens, they'll already have Alabama penciled in at #3. Whereas if Bama wins, their predetermined #1 will just fall to #2.

Maybe not. But if it happens,you heard it here first.