2009 WS Call It and in-game thread

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

The last time a defending world champion made it to the World Series the following year was 2001, when the Yankees were defending three straight. This will be different, because usually the defending champ is the hunted. But the Phillies hardly seem like a defending champ. They will be underdogs here and the Yankees seem to be the hunted. I won't sit here and break down position by position and manager by manager because that's not how to predict who is going to win a series.

I think the Yankees have the perfect amount of rest for Game one, while Philadelphia has rested a little too much. Pressure is on NY in game one because being at home and having Sabathia on the mound, they have to win that one. If they don't they are fucked.

Philadelphia carries a psychological advantage. The ghosts of '83 and '93 are no longer there, since they got over last year, so they know they can win. For the Yankees, they have the ghosts of '01, '03 and '04 still hanging in the balance and that will hurt them. The Yankees need this more than the Phillies do.

One of the big advantages people are saying the Yankees have is the bullpen. I call bullshit on that. I see nobody but meatball pitchers in the 6th(if needed)-7th-8th, and be assured that those tomato cans will get pasted. The Phillies have solid middle relief and when it comes to Lidge, I just like the guy's balls. So far he has silenced the naysayers and I think he's going to go on a streak and be a pivotal player in this series. Jason Werth should be huge as well for the Phillies. He's been dominant in that 5 hole. WhereAS, Matsui at #5 should have been kept off the postseason roster. He flat out blows. And having him and Posada hitting back to back really fucks them up because they either clog the bases or chop into easy double plays. Remember I said that. Also, Girardi has to be shitting bricks thinking about how many runs his team left in scoring position against the Angels. Meanwhile, Manuel's team is clutch in those situations and come through with base knocks.

Phillies have better pitching and get the RBIs when they need to....I like a split at Yankee Stadium and then the Phillies doing what they do best and winning three back in Philly.

Phillies in 5, Cliff Lee MVP.

Leading hitters:
Victorio .442
Werth .410
Damon .356
Howard .344
MCabrera .289

Suckass performances:
Gay Rod .197
Utley .145
Texiera .176
Matsui .111
Cano .086


And before you start saying that you are now going to bet on the Yankees Do keep in mind that I accurately predicted last year that the Phillies would beat the TB FlukeRays in the WS, not that it was a difficult call to make. Should be a quicker series than people think.

[Rack Fu]

Thanks for just guaranteeing a Yankees victory.

[jiminphilly]

when it comes to Lidge, I just like the guy's balls.

I'm sure you do.

Thanks for the jinx.

[MuchoBulls]

This will probably be the one time the YAFJ jinx doesn't work.

[jiminphilly]

This will probably be the one time the YAFJ jinx doesn't work.

I tend to agree. I'm not a homer to predict the Phillies win but I'll crack open the homer beer and predict they clinch in 5.

[Shoalzie]

Yankees in 6

Absolutely love this matchup...Sabathia vs. Lee is about as good a pitching matchup you can get right now. I favor Sabathia in the matchup against Lee so it'll be on Pedro and Hamels to get wins in the games against Burnett and Pettitte. I'd imagine the Yankees stick with the 3-man rotation...will the Phillies do the same or will they throw Blanton in as the Game 4 starter? I think that will probably depend on how the series is looking through three games. I don't think Manuel will turn to Lee in Game 4 as long as the Yankees aren't up 3-0.

Both teams have lethal lineups, top to bottom. Eddie Perez on ESPN did an "ultimate lineup" between the teams...picking the better player at each position. I agree with him on taking the entire Phillie outfield but if you were to favor the Yankees at any outfield position...I'd say Damon is having a better playoff than Ibanez. In the infield, you can take the left side for the Yankees and the right side for the Phillies. Second base has been a position where both guys for each team have under performed up to this point. Howard and A-Rod at the corners have been the horses for both teams and it'll be interesting to see if A-Rod can carry his great hitting into the World Series. He can still wear the goat horns if he doesn't show up for this series after how huge he's been so far. I can't see any player in this series having more pressure on them than him because his play to this point.

I see the big money guys for the Yankees coming through and even though Lidge hasn't screwed up in the postseason...he's yet to face a lineup like the Yankees. Rivera has been strong up to this point and his strength is going after left-handed hitters and the Phillies' best hitters are left handed. I can't see him failing in a save situation. I wouldn't feel nearly as confident in Lidge.

Best World Series matchup we've seen since the mid-90s with the Yankees-Braves. This should be an absolute treat for baseball fans...I'm pumped.

[jiminphilly]

Yankees in 6

Absolutely love this matchup...Sabathia vs. Lee is about as good a pitching matchup you can get right now. I favor Sabathia in the matchup against Lee so it'll be on Pedro and Hamels to get wins in the games against Burnett and Pettitte. I'd imagine the Yankees stick with the 3-man rotation...will the Phillies do the same or will they throw Blanton in as the Game 4 starter? I think that will probably depend on how the series is looking through three games. I don't think Manuel will turn to Lee in Game 4 as long as the Yankees aren't up 3-0.

Both teams have lethal lineups, top to bottom. Eddie Perez on ESPN did an "ultimate lineup" between the teams...picking the better player at each position. I agree with him on taking the entire Phillie outfield but if you were to favor the Yankees at any outfield position...I'd say Damon is having a better playoff than Ibanez. In the infield, you can take the left side for the Yankees and the right side for the Phillies. Second base has been a position where both guys for each team have under performed up to this point. Howard and A-Rod at the corners have been the horses for both teams and it'll be interesting to see if A-Rod can carry his great hitting into the World Series. He can still wear the goat horns if he doesn't show up for this series after how huge he's been so far. I can't see any player in this series having more pressure on them than him because his play to this point.

I see the big money guys for the Yankees coming through and even though Lidge hasn't screwed up in the postseason...he's yet to face a lineup like the Yankees. Rivera has been strong up to this point and his strength is going after left-handed hitters and the Phillies' best hitters are left handed. I can't see him failing in a save situation. I wouldn't feel nearly as confident in Lidge.

Best World Series matchup we've seen since the mid-90s with the Yankees-Braves. This should be an absolute treat for baseball fans...I'm pumped.

Solid take.

Can't argue with much of what you wrote. I think the key areas that the Phillies have an edge that can also be potential game breaker/savers are their "running game" as well as their defense. In terms of stealing bases, the Phillies are extremely efficient when they run. Couple that with Posada's declining ability to throw out runners and should the Phillies get men on base, they could be off too the races. It doesn't hurt that they have Davey Lopes as 1b coach. With the exception of Texiera (who is awesome), the Phillies are very strong in just about every position, including LF where, despite playing with a torn abdonmen, Ibanez has played well. In NY, Francisco takes over in LF and he's a slight upgrade. Damon was moved to left because he can't throw anyone out anymore. Hopefully this comes into play in the series so the Phillies can take advantage of it.

[Shoalzie]

The Yankees were able to neutralize arguably the two best running teams in the AL...the Twins and Angels. Pettitte is also THE balk...err...pick-off artist. I do think Posada can be run on so we'll see if Chawlie decides put guys in motion.

[Dinsdale]

Yankees in 6

Absolutely love this matchup...Sabathia vs. Lee is about as good a pitching matchup you can get right now. I favor Sabathia in the matchup against Lee so it'll be on Pedro and Hamels to get wins in the games against Burnett and Pettitte. I'd imagine the Yankees stick with the 3-man rotation...will the Phillies do the same or will they throw Blanton in as the Game 4 starter? I think that will probably depend on how the series is looking through three games. I don't think Manuel will turn to Lee in Game 4 as long as the Yankees aren't up 3-0.

Both teams have lethal lineups, top to bottom. Eddie Perez on ESPN did an "ultimate lineup" between the teams...picking the better player at each position. I agree with him on taking the entire Phillie outfield but if you were to favor the Yankees at any outfield position...I'd say Damon is having a better playoff than Ibanez. In the infield, you can take the left side for the Yankees and the right side for the Phillies. Second base has been a position where both guys for each team have under performed up to this point. Howard and A-Rod at the corners have been the horses for both teams and it'll be interesting to see if A-Rod can carry his great hitting into the World Series. He can still wear the goat horns if he doesn't show up for this series after how huge he's been so far. I can't see any player in this series having more pressure on them than him because his play to this point.

I see the big money guys for the Yankees coming through and even though Lidge hasn't screwed up in the postseason...he's yet to face a lineup like the Yankees. Rivera has been strong up to this point and his strength is going after left-handed hitters and the Phillies' best hitters are left handed. I can't see him failing in a save situation. I wouldn't feel nearly as confident in Lidge.

Best World Series matchup we've seen since the mid-90s with the Yankees-Braves. This should be an absolute treat for baseball fans...I'm pumped.

Solid take.

Can't argue with much of what McCarver/ESPN/SI wrote, which Schotz so uneloquently turned into his trademark droll plagiarism.

FTFY

[MuchoBulls]

Pettitte is also THE balk...err...pick-off artist.

He exploits the 45 degree rule to perfection. Hamels did the same thing in Game 1 of the World Series last season. As a former left handed pitcher, I love watching guys get picked off by that move.

As long as Girardi doesn't over manage like he did against Anaheim, I like the Yankees' chances. Yanks in 6.

[Shoalzie]

Pettitte is also THE balk...err...pick-off artist.

He exploits the 45 degree rule to perfection. Hamels did the same thing in Game 1 of the World Series last season. As a former left handed pitcher, I love watching guys get picked off by that move.

As long as Girardi doesn't over manage like he did against Anaheim, I like the Yankees' chances. Yanks in 6.

A fellow lefty...I can remember how I tried to model my delivery in Little League up to high school after Tom Glavine. I unfortunately had to pitch with guys on often so I had to use a pickoff/hold move quite a bit. I love the freeze move and the stare at first just before going to the plate. It's not really that good to pick up your target late but I at least keep guys closer to first because a shorter lead and that will slow down the running game and in the case of a single...I may keep a slower runner from going first to third and just hold them at second and keep a force play at third in play and prevent a sac fly by the next hitter.

[jiminphilly]

Cliff Lee's first inning pitch count/strikes 11/8. (with 2 strikeouts)...

[jiminphilly]

Um. Now that was just silly. Lee was playing yo yo with the Yanks all night. He would have had a shut out had Rollins been able to complete the DP.

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

Lee on pace to be MVP, Phils should wrap this up in five.

Yankees are playing exactly like they did in the '03 WS- with a sense of entitlement and with no heart. Philadelphia is just the better team, and it's not as close as the jackoffs who said "THIS WILL GO SEVEN!" thought. Rodriguez is back to his old playoff self, their bullpen sucks, the whole team looks nervous and tight....this thing is over.

[Shoalzie]

Lee on pace to be MVP, Phils should wrap this up in five.

Well, so is Utley...because he's going to hit 2 home runs every game, right?

As the old saying goes, momentum is the next day's starting pitcher...the only way that series ends in 5 is if Lee happens to throw all five games.

Lee was awesome...no other way to describe it. I kind of wondered if he'd start getting touched up in the 8th and 9th innings for no other reason than for being stuck waiting for his offense to finish feasting on the Yankee bullpen. He finally showed some signs of being human in the 9th. Good for Chawlie for allowing him to finish that start because most managers would've probably got scared and pulled him after those two singles even though you're up 6 runs with 3 outs to go. His pitch count was decent through 8 innings. They save their bullpen for Game 2 when Pedro isn't likely going to go any more than 6 or 7 innings.

In the head-to-head...I wasn't thinking it would've been a matter of Lee was going to get touched up by the Yankees, I just figured Sabathia would just flat out be the better starter. He didn't have a bad start at all...just two poorly located fastballs on 2-strike counts to a lethal left-handed bat like Utley. His first inning put his pitch count up way too high early on and probably cost him at least one extra inning of work...which meant two innings of that shaky Yankee pen instead of maybe only one. Considering Joba and Rivera are their two best relievers, you can't say the entire pen is brutal...certainly the middlemen have been less than desirable. Marte and Robertson did their jobs facing their token lefties and righty respectively...Hughes and Bruney get the goat horns out of the pen from Game 1.

It was a game where one guy could do no wrong and on the other side, any little mistake gets magnified. The Yankees couldn't do their usual work the count and find a way to get on...not when the starter is hitting his spots. It's such a simple concept that not every pitcher can do...throwing strikes early in the count to get ahead...and then being able to put a guy away quickly with a good out pitch like the curveball or a well-located fastball. He was doing it all night and he didn't allow the big guns for the Yankees to get to him. The road team in any 7-game series with the 2-3-2 wants to achieve a split to allow them the chance to win the series without having to come back to the other park...winning Game 2 is gravy for the Phillies.

[MuchoBulls]

Complete domination.

Now Burnett's on the hill tonight.

[jiminphilly]

Complete domination.

Now Burnett's on the hill tonight.

Probably going to see both bullpens tonight. Given that the Yanks had to use almost all of their's last night, this can't be a good sign for them in a long series. Not too sure how Pedro is going to pitch tonight. He's mostly had trouble in the first inning and gets stronger as the game goes on. The Yanks were over-anxious at the plate last night and so if they take the same approach with Pedro, he might get away with some junk pitches for strikes. If he goes more than 6 innings, I would be surprised. I have to Yanks will bounce back and put a couple across. Likewise I think the Phillies will go with a LH heavy lineup tonight and that short porch might be abused a little by both teams.

[jiminphilly]

Oh and yanks fans? WTF?

"I noticed some people left as the game went along," he said. "It was a little quieter."

[Neely8]

Oh and yanks fans? WTF?

"I noticed some people left as the game went along," he said. "It was a little quieter."

The real fans can't sit in those seats. That is where all of the corporate suits and Fox TV stars sit. Im guessing once they got their mug on TV to promote their soon to be cancelled shows it was too cold for them to stay there. Real people can't afford those seats.....

[jiminphilly]

Oh and yanks fans? WTF?

"I noticed some people left as the game went along," he said. "It was a little quieter."

The real fans can't sit in those seats. That is where all of the corporate suits and Fox TV stars sit. Im guessing once they got their mug on TV to promote their soon to be cancelled shows it was too cold for them to stay there. Real people can't afford those seats.....

It wasn't just the lower level seats that were empty:

Top of the ninth:

Brian Bruney shows why he was left off the postseason roster for the first two rounds. Bruney gave up three straight one-out hits to Ruiz, Rollins and Victorino to push the lead to 5-0 and leaves with runners on first and second.

Phil Coke comes in and stops the bleeding thanks to Utley getting thrown out at home on a Howard bullet double that first plated Rollins to make it 6-0.

The stadium is about half-full now and when Howard hit the double there were more cheers than boos. Phillies fans have temporarily taken control of The Bronx

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/yankeesbl ... xEwoYhonmN

[rozy]

I favor Sabathia in the matchup against Lee

:doh:



:D

I just figured Sabathia would just flat out be the better starter.

:doh:



:D

Ya had ta know I would be around soon enough to give you the crap you deserve for this...
I tried to tell you, but NOOOOOO, you just have to get your takes handed to you by "ANALysts"
But look at the bright side. A sweep is unlikely so you'll probly have at least one more shot for Lee not to continue to punk your takes.

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

The odds in Game two seem stacked against the Yankees but they will win tonight.

Hamels will pitch lights out in Game 3 when they need him to, and the Phillies will get over on CC in game 4 AGAIN, absolutely deflating the Bronx Bombers.

Phillies win three straight at home with Lee finishing them off in Five. I guarantee that the Phillies in in five. The Yankees will show some spark in this game with some good offense but the rest of the way they will be completely gutless and playing with puckered-up cornholes.

[Shoalzie]

I favor Sabathia in the matchup against Lee

:doh:



:D

I just figured Sabathia would just flat out be the better starter.

:doh:



:D

Ya had ta know I would be around soon enough to give you the crap you deserve for this...
I tried to tell you, but NOOOOOO, you just have to get your takes handed to you by "ANALysts"
But look at the bright side. A sweep is unlikely so you'll probly have at least one more shot for Lee not to continue to punk your takes.

For the record, I never said Cliff Lee is no CC Sabathia...

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

And they win just as I said.

Is it me or is this whole thing that Girardi's doing with the bullpen going to be the downfall? Hiding those meatball pitchers worked in Game Two (he should have stuck with AJ in the 8th imo) even though Rivera had to work out of a couple jams.....but that two inning save shit won't play in Philly. That's why the Phillies will take the next three. I can already see Chamberlain rolling in around the 7th inning of game 3 or 4 with the crowd rocking and him unraveling or just hanging meatballs on the fat part of the plate. Same with Hughes who will help batters with constant 3-1 counts. Mark my words....this will fuck the Yankees in the ass.
Their only prayer is if Pettitte goes 7 strong with the lead and then they do another bullshit two inning save, and if CC can work 8 or 9 innings in Game 4. But I don't see that shit happening. Phillies are going to assplow the Yankees in Five games.

[jiminphilly]

-Ballsy performance by Burnett last night. Probably the best game he pitched all year.
-Pedro still looks like he's got something left in the arm. 6+ innings, 3 runs allowed? Not bad.
-Charlie Manual took his turn this series in mismanaging the game. Let Pedro start the 7th and brought in Park with runners on base. He needed a ground ball and should have gone with Durbin. He also should have sent the runners on the 3-2 to Utley because it would have kept them out of the DP and had Utley taken one down the RF line, they might have been able to score 2 despite the short fence.
- I know there is a 1 day rest but I think it was a mistake to go to Rivera for 2 innings. I think he's probably restricted to 1 inning for each of the games in Philly now which allows for the Phillies to do some more damage in that overrated bullpen of the Yanks.

[MuchoBulls]

I can't say I saw Burnett pitching like that, but I will gladly take it. I agree with YAFJ that Burnett should have come out for the 8th inning after how well he pitched in the 7th.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Why do so many non native NYers root for the Spankmees? I just don't get it.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I guess I can see where you're coming from. It's just that from my view, that's a very unlikeable franchise...I can't imagine actually rooting for them unless I'm a New Yorker.

[Shoalzie]

I guess I can see where you're coming from. It's just that from my view, that's a very unlikeable franchise...I can't imagine actually rooting for them unless I'm a New Yorker.

The franchise is unlikeable but I can't find myself to really disliking this particular group of guys they have this year. It's strange that I'm not out and out rooting against them. It's not like I don't like the Phillies but I just don't hate this Yankee team like I did in the past. I can honestly care less who wins this but it's not the usual case where if someone is playing the Yankees, I just take the other side.

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

it won't be in five, but it will be in six for the Phillies.

The Yankees were in a similar spot in '03, up 2-1 on the Marlins on the road and lost three straight. I sense an eerily similar ending in game 4 as the one in '03 when Gonzalez went yard off Weaver.

I sense the exact same thing this time. Especially with a rain-out tonight, Lee pitches game 4, then Phils get momentum back, win game 5 and close it out at Yankee Stadium.

[jiminphilly]

.... Especially with a rain-out tonight...

Now you're taking on the weather service?

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

Told you!!!

Feliz with a CRUSHING HR off meatball pitcher Chamberlain ! Just like in '03.

Just like in '03....a complete momentum swing....Phillies have Lee tomorrow to go up 3-2, then close it out with Pedro in Game Six.

[Rack Fu]

Told you!!!

Feliz with a CRUSHING HR off meatball pitcher Chamberlain ! Just like in '03.

Just like in '03....a complete momentum swing....Phillies have Lee tomorrow to go up 3-2, then close it out with Pedro in Game Six.

I just wanted to quote this before you deleted it. Kind of jumped the gun a bit, dumbass.

[MuchoBulls]

I'll bet if A-Rod hadn't whined about getting plunked that Lidge would've been free to brush him back at the very least in the 9th.

Not sure why you'd try a brush back with 2 outs in a tie game in the 9th inning and 2 men on base. A-Rod had a right to complain last night. Blanton threw at him, regardless of what McCarver and Buck woudl lead you to believe.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I almost felt sorry for Brad Lidge last night. You could practically see his vagina start to pucker after Damon got on base, and it was all down hill from there. Dude just completely melted down and went away from his bread and butter.

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

Kind of jumped the gun a bit, dumbass.

I had no intention of deleting it. The only person "jumping the gun" is yourself. You'll be back here on Friday apologizing to me and giving me props.

The entire scope of what I've predicted since the 1-1 split has been dead nuts on. Last night was another example of the Yankees meatball bullpen being exposed and I'm telling you- it WILL be the reason they lose the World Series and I'm not even satisfied guaranteeing that the Phillies will win this series and coming through on that guarantee. I will take it a step further and guarantee that the reason they win is large in part to the Yankees setup meatball pitchers. These guys, Robertson, Marte, Hughes, Chamberlain- each have two pitches in their arsenal- 1. The fourseam groove. 2. The split finger meatball
As proven last night when Feliz of all people yacked that baby out of the yard and then he cried on the bench

And Melky Cabrera, the guy I said who would be one of the best hitters of the Yankees, is injured. Cue up Carl Lewis- Uh oh!!! And before you point to the ALCS...well, that was the Angels. This is a different cat- the Phillies. And it's an educated guarantee because of the Phil's gutsy hitters and more importantly, their lights-out pitching. Lee gets the win tonight and then Pedro who is so comfortable at the Stadium, forces it to Seven.

Like MCCarver said last night, when he played, pitchers went on 2 or 3 days rest and were fine, So Lee can go easy in Game Seven esp. with another rainout coming after game six (I've already looked ahead on weather.com). I'm not saying Lee will go 7-8 innings in Game 7, but he will do enough to hand the ball over to Hamels for a few and then it's ball game with Utley jacked CC yard in that Game seven in the first inning. This is a special team....they never waste at bats, and they have lights-out pitching, the best in the NL by far. This will be a monumental collapse for the Yankees and Lidge is one of the best closers in terms of blocking out the previous day's failures and coming out the next day and sealing the deal.

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

Blanton threw at him, regardless of what McCarver and Buck woudl lead you to believe.

Why did McCarver insist over and over that "There is NO REASON to put Roriguez on in that situation"

WHAT? :?

Does he think that we are that stupid? Not only was it obvious that he threw that pitch like a dart at A-Rod, but it's one out, runner on third, first base open and a DP machine coming up (Posada). I was yelling at my tv and calling out McCarver for that bullshit. You have every reason to, if not plunk ARod, pitch around him or intentionally walk him. I hate it when announcers try to protect pitchers like that when the intent is clear to any dumbass who knows nothing about baseball.

[jiminphilly]

I'll bet if A-Rod hadn't whined about getting plunked that Lidge would've been free to brush him back at the very least in the 9th.

Not sure why you'd try a brush back with 2 outs in a tie game in the 9th inning and 2 men on base. A-Rod had a right to complain last night. Blanton threw at him, regardless of what McCarver and Buck woudl lead you to believe.

Stop being a puss. ARoid crowds the plate with the best of them and the book on him is to bust him inside to get him out. So they hit him. Fuck him. He acted like a pussy, turning his back to the Phillies dugout and pleading this his own team for support. They should have thrown him a maxi-pad.

[MuchoBulls]

Stop being a puss. ARoid crowds the plate with the best of them

Oh really?

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/media/vi ... id=7223232

Sorry, but that is nowhere near crowding the plate. There are other players on both teams who are much closer to the plate than A-Rod gets and they haven't been hit yet. Blanton went up and in and hit A-Rod high in the back, so he had a right to complain. Getting hit 3 times in 2 games is not a result of crowding the plate.

[Shoalzie]

Lidge did gag under the pressure but the Yankees wily vets got it done in the clutch...Damon reaching base and wisely taking third on the steal with no one covering. A-Rod rips a double, which would've scored Damon whether or not he took that extra base. Posada with the dagger shot on the 2-run double. Rivera promptly goes on and retires the three lefties he faced. The two lefty specialists (Coke and Marte) and Rivera have been money against the Phillies left-handed bats. Matsui adds a pinch-hit dinger and Jeter is now hitting .418 in the series.

If this goes to a Game 7 and the Yanks have to throw Sabathia on short rest again...maybe he can think about not challenging Utley with pitches on the outer half of the plate? Cripes...he's worn him out in this series. The three homers were on fastballs and that double was on a slider.

I can definitely see Lee coming out tonight and holding off elimination for one game but the Yanks will finish this off in the Bronx. I'm feeling pretty good about my Yankees in 6 pick. Burnett probably had the best start of the four games in this series so maybe he can match Lee but I wouldn't hold my breath. Lee will do his job tonight and go 8 or 9 innings and give up a single run and the Phillies' bats take out some frustration on Burnett. Delay the celebration until Wednesday...