President Dobbs?

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:29 am

Jsc810 wrote:Has this guy completely lost his mind?

Short answer, YES.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:30 am

We all have. Why should he be any different ?

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:04 am

He'd be a hell of a lot better than the clown we have now. I like his ideas on trade. I think the whole free trade idea, particularly with our enemies has shown itself to be shit.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:28 am

I haven't watched him recently, so I was disappointed to find out in that article that he's a "birther." But I'd still vote for the guy...he's a way better prospect than anything either of the two major parties can offer.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:39 am

Why is it a problem for Obullshit to produce his birth certificate?

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:59 am

When I retired I had to produce a REAL birth certificate, the one that was filed at Onondaga County in New York. I had never seen it until then, only a "certificate" of some sort. To my surprise I found out that my Mother and Father were living at my Grandmother's house at the time. I never knew that.
I am still wondering why Obama couldn't come up with a REAL one. Maybe there is something on it he doesn't want known ?

Doug near DC · Post by **Doug near DC** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:25 pm

What happened to his gig at space.com?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:23 pm

It's actually a LOT more funny that a supposedly intelligent person is not troubled by a president failing to release his birth certificate, college records or medical records.

If you know someone who needs to get a passport, tell them to go apply and take the following with them.

- an unsigned photocopy of their (alleged) certificate of live birth

- two photocopies of 48 yr old newspaper clippings reporting their birth

- a phone number of the hospital where they were born -- so the passport center can call and get verification that they have a legit birth certificate on file for the person in question

Let us know how that works out.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:43 pm

Jsc, the very first words from the first link you posted say this ...

- In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen.

This is FALSE.

The Obama campaign did NOT release a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate.

The FACT is, Obama has not released his birth certificate, colllege records or medical records.

Two questions for you, then.

1. Why do you think he hasn't?

2. Do you think a person ought not need to release those documents in order to be president of the United States?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:01 am

Nobody cares.

And if you didn't vote, by definition you are nobody.

Smackie Chan · Post by **Smackie Chan** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:08 am

You might wanna try loosening the chin strap on that tin-foil Raiduh helmet, 'tart. Cranial circulation seems to be deficient.

'Spray - Read the info posted on the links Chip provided.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:14 am

Papa Willie wrote:Why doesn't he just shut the doubters' asses up and just show the real thing? It can't be that fucking hard to do.

Why the hell would he want to? The more simpletons that focus on channeling Oliver Stone, the more he can claim that opposition to him is led by extremists. Besides, if the public didn't care about being mentored by racists, terrorists and other Chicago politicians, why would they give a shit about this?

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:06 am

Papa Willie wrote:
Jsc810 wrote:poptart, I'm a nice guy so I'll assume that you merely are uneducated on the subject, and not a fool; therefore, for your edification and consideration, please see the links below. If you still have any doubt whatsoever after that, please let me know. Happy reading.

FactCheck
Snopes
Snopes again
PolitiFact
PolitiFact again

Chip - I've seen this same thing. I'm not really a birther, but I've seen this picture:

"Digitally scanned"?

Okay - HERE is an example of a real 1961 Hawaiian BC (Not scanned).

All you have to do is to look no further than the fonts used on Obama's "copy". The example above is actually from '63. Why is it that the one from '63 looks a whole lot older than the one from '61? EVERYTHING was typed in back in those days - usually in a courier font. Obama's copy is using very modern looking fonts.

Now - I haven't had a chance to sit down and read all of the Fact Check stuff (so maybe I shouldn't even be commenting), but it's pretty obvious that Obama's example did not come from the same time era.

Why doesn't he just shut the doubters' asses up and just show the real thing? It can't be that fucking hard to do.

spray is right about the fonts. my BC is from the same era ('63) and is very similar to the typed hawaii sample. the only that is allegedly his looks as if it was produced on a compute and printed on a r. No way is it typed. And nobody was doing computer generated laser printer docs in 61 as they hadn't been invented yet.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:08 am

Smackie wrote:You might wanna try loosening the chin strap on that tin-foil Raiduh helmet, 'tart.

Or, you might try answering the three questions I've asked in this thread.

1. Why is it a problem for Barry to produce his birth certificate?

2. Why do you think he hasn't released his BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

3. Do you think a person ought not need to release those documents in order to be president of the United States?

Answer.

If a person is applying for something in America which calls for them to produce a birth certificate, passing off what B.O. has passed off would produce a FAIL.

You grasp that, right?

So being a student of human behavior, it is my assumption, based on Barry's behavior (hiding all of his documents), that he is wanting very badly to keep something important from his past from being known.

He's a lying sack of shit.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:29 am

Jsc, if you want to dismiss me as a fool, that's fine.

If I am a fool, and you are a lawyer, answering the three questions I posed should not be very difficult for you.

You can answer, or not.

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:48 am

poptart wrote:
Smackie wrote:You might wanna try loosening the chin strap on that tin-foil Raiduh helmet, 'tart.
Or, you might try answering the three questions I've asked in this thread.

1. Why is it a problem for Barry to produce his birth certificate?

2. Why do you think he hasn't released his BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

3. Do you think a person ought not need to release those documents in order to be president of the United States?

Answer.

If a person is applying for something in America which calls for them to produce a birth certificate, passing off what B.O. has passed off would produce a FAIL.

You grasp that, right?

So being a student of human behavior, it is my assumption, based on Barry's behavior (hiding all of his documents), that he is wanting very badly to keep something important from his past from being known.

He's a lying sack of shit.

Don't ya'll think that the NSA, FBI, or CIA or somebody would be all over this shit if he was some sort of imposter? Any other regular job where you falsify your application or resume and you get shit-canned immediately. This is the office of POTUS we're talking here. I don't think Obama even has the opportunity to become a CANDIDATE if he's lying about something like his citizenship. This sounds like some kind of UFO abduction testimony here.....about a snowball's chance in hell of being true.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:51 am

H4,

Probably.

But you never know .... :tinfoilhatsmiley:

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:13 am

H4, first, I am not saying Barry is not a U.S. citizen.
In order to be president, a person must not only be a citizen, they must be a natural born citizen.

It may be that he has absolutely nothing to hide regarding his citizenship, however, and no matter how many links Jsc post and how many times he calls me a fool, the FACT remains that he has not released his original long-form BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

You ask, "If he is not a citizen, wouldn't the CIA or the FBI get involved and wouldn't they have stopped him by now?"

I don't know, and I'll answer this two ways.

1. He may very well be a citizen.
People assure us that he is.
I hear them.
Perhaps it's not his citizenship that he is attempting to hide by not releasing his birth certificate, college records or medical records.
It may be something ELSE he is hiding, and that something may be something which would not necessary exclude him from presidential eligibility.

2. The FBI, CIA, whoever, maybe have been, and may continue to be "under orders" not to be involved in the matter.
The heads of the CIA, the FBI -- who do they work for?
If you think it's the people, you need to think again.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:08 am

Mine is actually not a take, S_M.
It is purely speculation on my part -- in answer to H4's question.

Understand, however, that the fact that the FBI or CIA has not called Barry out on anything is not evidence that he is a natural born citizen.
You understand that, right?
Saying that they WOULD have called him out, if he is not legit, is speculation on the part of H4.
We just don't know.

Barry can end the chatter by releasing his valid long-form birth certificate.
College documents.
Medical documents.

Open and transparent.

Where have I heard that?

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:23 pm

The FBI would never call out the standing POTUS for an illegal action.

Sincerely,
Mark Felt

Smackie Chan · Post by **Smackie Chan** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:47 pm

popTVO wrote:1. Why is it a problem for Barry to produce his birth certificate?

2. Why do you think he hasn't released his BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

3. Do you think a person ought not need to release those documents in order to be president of the United States?

What is your definition of "release" as it relates to the birth certificate? According to FactCheck.org, it was released:

The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.

Additionally,

Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates).
...
The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport

Are you claiming that the Hawaii state registrar's office, FactCheck.org, and snopes.com are all in the tank for Obama? Has he bought them off? Are their reps just a bunch of gullible rubes who'll fall for anything? What expertise do you have that they lack? You claim that what has been released is a forgery, but any evidence to support that claim is specious at best. I think Obama is just having fun trolling simpletons like you with this cat & mouse game. There are PLENTY of REAL shortcomings his critics can focus on; this is a diversion from them that has your ilk chasing shadows.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:37 pm

S_M doesn't know what 'usurious' means.

-M.A.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:33 pm

Smackie, FactCheck did not "spend time" with Obama's original long-form birth certificate.

They are saying that they spent time with his certificate of live birth (the thing that had it's copy posted on the Interweb) -- which they have chosen to call his birth certificate.

Smackie wrote:You claim that what has been released is a forgery

I've not claimed that.

But I'll ask you to use your own judgement.

Look at what shutyomouth posted and compare the two documents.

Does something not look right?

To YOU, does the font look legit, when compared to a REAL document from that era?

Did the font from the Obama certificate come off an early-60's typewriter -- as YOU objectively look at it?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:41 pm

What part of the post is funny to you?

What part do you find disagreement with?

Smackie Chan · Post by **Smackie Chan** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:18 am

poptart wrote:Look at what shutyomouth posted and compare the two documents.

Does something not look right?

To YOU, does the font look legit, when compared to a REAL document from that era?

Did the font from the Obama certificate come off an early-60's typewriter -- as YOU objectively look at it?

Here's what I think: Dude (anyone) is born in one of any number of hospitals in Hawaii. Hospital types up a birth certificate using whatever typewriter is available then. Hospital submits copy of birth certificate to state registrar's office. State registrar's office files it. Technology advances. Eventually, all the data from all the birth certificates are input into a database whose contents are certified as "official." When a legitimate request for an official copy is received, state registrar's office processes request and prints onto official paper the pertinent (and certified official) data contained in the database for that individual. The font used to print the documents are not going to look like that of the typewriter used to produce the original document from which the data was taken to input into the database; it's going to be printed in whatever font the printer connected to the database is set to. State registrar embosses the newly-produced document with a seal certifying that its contents are official, and stamps it with a date and signature. This in no way diminishes the "officialness" of the information it reflects just because its font is different from the original. Just my speculation. I don't look good in tin-foil.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:38 am

Smackie, the B.O. certificate of live birth was generated much later than the other one we see, which Buttsy posted.
Yes, common sense tell us all that, I hope.
So Barry's only been in possession of that COLB for a short period of time -- not since the early '60s, or whatever, or else it would look like the other one Buttsy posted.
Ok, fine.

A question is, why would Barry want or need to have had a COLB generated?

So he could post it on the internet and pass it off as his BIRTH CERTIFCATE?

Why didn't he post his BIRTH CERTIFCATE on the internet?

You understand that a person's official long-form birth certificate contains information which is not found on a COLB, right?

Look at the other document Buttsy posted.
It contains info that Barry's simple form does not.

And this is the issue.

He posted a COLB.

BFD.

Well, there are other issues with the photocopy team Barry posted on the internet, but I'm not going to get into it.

Jsc wrote:poptart, you have all the information you could possibly need.

You have reached a conclusion, and it appears that no facts will change your mind.

Jsc, you say this because you mistakenly assume that I am here to deny that B.O. is a citizen.

That is not necessarily my issue.

The issue is, we have a man in the oval office who has not released his birth certificate, his college records, or his medical records.

Why you find this acceptable is beyond me.

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:48 am

Having read the articles JSC posted, the modern copy is a 'certificate of live birth', or a 'short version' of the original that's released for application. It was generated later as requests for it are recent.
The 'long version', or original which is more detailed is maintained by the hospital in which you're born and is not released to the general public. It's a uniform state policy.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:56 am

Thanks, Marcus.

Barry could have his long-form, if he wanted it.

And he could post it.

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:00 am

But if you're interested in getting to the bottom of things, historical documents etc - pulling them out of your wallet isn't an option. State archives are the only thing anyone should accept as it's less likely to be tampered with. It will have been cross-referenced to death. jeez.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:59 am

poptart wrote:A question is, why would Barry want or need to have had a COLB generated?

people lose their birth certificates, you know. mine doesn't exist anymore. a colb has sufficed nicely for the last 15 years.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:33 am

Do you think Barry lost his birth certificate??

You can't get a passport with a certificate of live birth.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5533672_certi ... sport.html

But you obviously can take over the oval office.

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:47 am

You can't get a passport with a certificate of live birth.

so M Club never went to Africa?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:52 am

M Club came to Afreeka.

- Petrus

I don't know when or how M Club got his passport.

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:17 am

poptart wrote:H4, first, I am not saying Barry is not a U.S. citizen.
In order to be president, a person must not only be a citizen, they must be a natural born citizen.

This is my biggest problem with all of this mess. It's NOT a small deal. Since there is some "grey area" in Barry's past he could have done himself a HUGE favor by saying, "For all of you tinfoil tards out there....HERE....happy?" Nevermind the Snopes and whatever nonsense, he has done nothing to disprove the insinuations/rumors/inuendos, which does nothing but undermine his standing with many Americans.

For those of you on the left, if a Republican won the Presidency with any question whatsoever regarding his citizenship, would you be so dismissive? I think the answer is clear. It doesn't refelect on one's abilty to govern, but it's the #1 (and easiest) test that a Presidential candidate is expected to pass. This should never have gone beyond the "You're being stupid...here's my birth certificate" stage.

Regarding the topic at hand, I would be thrilled with Lou Dobbs as a President. Not because I agree with everything he says, but because it would be so refreshing to actually have someone in the Oval Office who actually says what he thinks.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:37 am

mike wrote:It's NOT a small deal

Mike gets it and this is anything BUT a small deal.

One can only imagine what might happen if Barry releases (or is made to release) his long-form birth certificate, college records and medical records and some ... oooopsie ... BIG surprise is found.

Could verrah well be THE biggest mess in the U.S. history.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:59 am

OCmike wrote:
poptart wrote:H4, first, I am not saying Barry is not a U.S. citizen.).
In order to be president, a person must not only be a citizen, they must be a natural born citizen.
This is my biggest problem with all of this mess. It's NOT a small deal. Since there is some "grey area" in Barry's past he could have done himself a HUGE favor by saying, "For all of you tinfoil tards out there....HERE....happy?" Nevermind the Snopes and whatever nonsense, he has done nothing to disprove the insinuations/rumors/inuendos, which does nothing but undermine his standing with many Americans.

Exactly wrong. By ignoring the 'issue' and letting the nutjobs squawk, he has the equivalent of the freaks who thought GWB blew up the Twin Towers in the public eye to distract from legitimate criticism. Besides, even if he wasn't born in the U.S., his mother was, therefore he would be a U.S. citizen anyway (natural-born, unless there was some voodoo ceremony involved).

Besides, nobody cares.

And if you didn't vote, you're still nobody.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:30 pm

It's not as simple as you've just said, Dio.

There are some other issues, but I'll just say this ...

First, I will note that a Hawaii COLB is not PROOF that a person was born in Hawaii, even if that document lists Hawaii as the place of birth.
It is possible for parents who have claimed Hawaii as their residence for over a year to list the state as the birth place of a child even if the child is born out of the country.

Barry was born to an American citizen (his mom) and a British citizen (his dad).
Based on this, and the laws on the books at the time of his birth, IF Barry was born out of the country, he would only receive U.S. citizenship if his mother had lived 10 years in the U.S. and 5 consecutive years in the U.S. after having reached age 14.
She was 18 at the time of his birth.
She didn't meet the requirement, IF Barry was born out of the country.

Them's the facts on that.

My suspicion is that Barry's got some things regarding his legal names, citizenship claims, parents, religious claims, finances, etc., on his school records, medical records and long-form birth certificate that don't match up with each other or with what he has said.

And this is why he has locked down all his documents.

And it's possible that he's not a natural born citizen at all.
I'm not willing to take FactCheck's word on it when the stakes are as high as this.
I prolly would if it was involving some dude applying for a job at a hardware store.

I'd prefer to see Barry's long form, as well as his other documents.

I think that is entirely rightful for us citizens to expect it.

But hey, that's just me.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:50 pm

Jsc, you're a smart guy (allegedly) and normally a worthwhile read.

So I ask you in all sincerity ----- > 2 questions.

1. Why do you imagine Barry has locked down all of his documents?

2. Do you care that he has?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:19 pm

poptart wrote:1. Why do you imagine Barry has locked down all of his documents?

2. Do you care that he has?

1) To spin you like a top.
2) Like the rest of the country, no.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:05 pm

Jsc810 wrote:There are many valid ways to criticize the President; however, his birth certificate is not one of them.

That's the plan.