The Confederate Flag: Help this Canadian understand...

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Being from Canada, I've never understood what it is about displaying the Confederate Flag that makes people go berserk.
Is it just implied racism? What's up with that?

Also, why would anyone want to fly a rebel flag? It's not the flag of a country.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I can't speak about the intentions or interpretations in the south, but when folks who are California born and bred are sporting the Confederate flag, it is a thoughtful reminder from them to the rest of the world that they are of below average intelligence, blurred the lines of molestation at least once and are generally unemployable.

Hope that helps a little bit Marty.

That's a very scientific analysis. Thank you.

[Stanley Pickkkle]

At dinner tomorrow............nothing but dark meat and nog gravy for me.

[Mikey]

Yee-haw!

[Stanley Pickkkle]

If I was any more of a reciever for dark leathery balls.................Matt Millen would draft me.

[Dinsdale]

Oh, it speaks quite clearly about the South -- stupid fucking inbreds even get dressed up in the reenactment garb, and fly their flag...

to celebrate a war they fucking lost.


And they wonder why the rest of the country laughs at them, which just adds to the comedy. They gave up their rights to modern dentistry and two distinct strands of DNA in the peace treaty, and the stupid motherfuckers (literally) still think they got it going on.

[Tom In VA]

Oh, it speaks quite clearly about the South -- stupid fucking inbreds even get dressed up in the reenactment garb, and fly their flag...

I live right smack in the middle of the area where many major battles of the Civil War were fought, done the tours, spoken to people involved in "living history" displays and reenactments.

The reenactment "scene" is more about a fascination with his period in our history than it is about the "South will Rise" bullshit.

[Mikey]

RACK Pikkle.


(or whoever's speaking for him)

[smackaholic]

rack sam. excellent take.

[Dinsdale]

It's mindboggling the percentage of people who actually believe that the Civil War was fought over slavery.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Also, why would anyone want to fly a rebel flag? It's not the flag of a country.

But it is part of our heritage however much some politically correct handwringers would like to sanitize it from the record. It is the single most dramatic and traumatic event in American history. Rejection of and rebellion against distant authority insensitive to local economic concerns remains part of the American character.

Was there not some clause in the terms of surrender that forbid displaying the Confederate Flag?

[Dinsdale]

Was there not some clause in the terms of surrender that forbid displaying the Confederate Flag?

Kind of a moot point, since people who fly the S&B's and the ability to read are mutually exclusive.

[Katy]

If I was any more of a reciever for dark leathery balls.................Matt Millen would draft me.

[Dinsdale]

One could make a strong case that the Civil War (the 19th Century fracas, not the great rivalry game) was an inevitability given the fed's rampant desire to take greater control of the emerging scope of the national turmoil that was sure to come, and had already begun, with the huge expansion during the Manifest Destiny phase of America, and slavery was merely the rallying cry for what was a constitutional issue of states' rights, and had it not been slavery, something else would have come to the forefront.

So while hostilities began under the umbrella of slavery, it could have been any of numerous other issues, all leading down the same road -- the power-mongers wanting greater control (read: wealth) over rapidly emerging markets. But slavery was such an emotionally charged topic, on the heels of the rampant success of Uncle Tom's Cabin and the heightened awareness it brought, so slavery the issue was.


Nevermind that slavery remained legal in the North... there is that.


OK, maybe not. Maybe I'm just trying in vain to prove I can discuss other topics besides fucking your mom.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Maybe I'm just trying in vain to prove I can discuss other topics besides fucking your mom.

Wow. Could you possibly spare any time from the thesaurus you're currently nailing?

[BSmack]

One could make a strong case that the Civil War (the 19th Century fracas, not the great rivalry game) was an inevitability given the fed's rampant desire to take greater control of the emerging scope of the national turmoil that was sure to come, and had already begun, with the huge expansion during the Manifest Destiny phase of America, and slavery was merely the rallying cry for what was a constitutional issue of states' rights, and had it not been slavery, something else would have come to the forefront.

So while hostilities began under the umbrella of slavery, it could have been any of numerous other issues, all leading down the same road -- the power-mongers wanting greater control (read: wealth) over rapidly emerging markets. But slavery was such an emotionally charged topic, on the heels of the rampant success of Uncle Tom's Cabin and the heightened awareness it brought, so slavery the issue was.

Nevermind that slavery remained legal in the North... there is that.

OK, maybe not. Maybe I'm just trying in vain to prove I can discuss other topics besides fucking your mom.

There was no other issue that sufficiently threatened the south's plantation economy. The south was even perfectly content to allow Andrew Jackson to buttfuck them in the mouth with high tariffs when push came to shove. It was only when a national party, founded upon the principle of abolition, come to power that the southern states bolted.

[Dinsdale]

Wow. Could you possibly spare any time from the thesaurus you're currently nailing?

Absolutely off-the-cuff.


Sorry to dispell your notion that I'm something other than Dinsepedia, but I actually know a thing or two about a thing or two -- it's that Asperger's thing, or so they tell me.

There was no other issue that sufficiently threatened the south's plantation economy.

Followed by:

The south was even perfectly content to allow Andrew Jackson to buttfuck them in the mouth with high tariffs when push came to shove.

Thanks for having my back here -- the overstepping of constitutional powers, and uneven application of federal revenue sources (to fuel the North's lust to man the explosive growth of the Industrial Revolution, and the immigrants that powered it) was the actual cause of the war, and slavery was the... damn I hate to use the term, but slavery was the "strawman" rolled out to reel inb states' rights, so the influence-peddlers benefitting from the Industrial Revolution could prosper without being too much out of pocket.


If anyone on this board thinks any war in human history was fought over any other issue besides wealth/resources, plaese chime in here... so the rest of us can laugh uncontrollably.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Sorry to dispell your notion that I'm something other than Dinsepedia, but I actually know a thing or two about a thing or two --

Yeah. You keep reminding us.

[BSmack]

Thanks for having my back here -- the overstepping of constitutional powers, and uneven application of federal revenue sources (to fuel the North's lust to man the explosive growth of the Industrial Revolution, and the immigrants that powered it) was the actual cause of the war, and slavery was the... damn I hate to use the term, but slavery was the "strawman" rolled out to reel inb states' rights, so the influence-peddlers benefitting from the Industrial Revolution could prosper without being too much out of pocket.

If anyone on this board thinks any war in human history was fought over any other issue besides wealth/resources, plaese chime in here... so the rest of us can laugh uncontrollably.

Damn, you are so close to being right. But you're not. Slavery was the lynch pin of the plantation economy. Period. Full stop. Sure, the southern plantation economy was not well served by high tariffs. But even after Jackson rammed those tariffs through, the south stayed in the union. It was only after the election of Lincoln that the south bailed. And they bailed because they could see the writing on the wall.

[Dinsdale]

In my Devil's Advocacy, you guys have made my point for me (although my guise of "it wasn't slavery" fell by the wayside right about on schedule).

My point being, as Bri so eloquently put, that slavery was the lynchpin, not the reason.

As mv pointed out, the southern states saw quickly-eroding political clout.

I'll reiterate -- no war in human history has ever been fought for any reason other than to increase/secure wealth/resources/power (the three of which are redundant).

I guess what I was trying to point out, through pointed words, was that this revisionist history of painting the Civil War as some great battle waged in the name of morality is complete and utter horseshit -- it was pure economics... just like every other war ever fought.

[Diogenes]

I can't speak about the intentions or interpretations in the south, but when folks who are California born and bred freak out over the Confederate flag, it is a thoughtful reminder from them to the rest of the world that they are of below average intelligence, blurred the lines of molestation at least once and are generally unemployable.

FTFY.

[Dinsdale]

Thanks for the insight, MarcusAllen-Jack.

[BSmack]

In my Devil's Advocacy, you guys have made my point for me (although my guise of "it wasn't slavery" fell by the wayside right about on schedule).

My point being, as Bri so eloquently put, that slavery was the lynchpin, not the reason.

I said that slavery was the lynchpin of the plantation economy. A correct distillation of my thoughts would center on the preservation of slavery being the lynchpin of all southern political thought.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Imagine you had ancestors who fought to protect their land and their way of life. A lot of those ancestors were killed in battle or died in prison camps. 150 years later, people are telling you that your ancestors were horrible people...even though you know they were good people. Hard-working, honest people. I think that's why a lot of people in the south like the Confederate battle flag. And they're proud those ancestors had the balls to tell the federal government to fuck off...we're outta here.

Sam, I don't think anyone is saying that your ancestors were "horrible people," so much as they were fighting to protect a system that was immoral, and was proven to be so by both time and history. That's certainly not to say that all Southerners were slaveowners. The majority were not, and the majority of slaveowners owned just one slave.

I don't know of any relatives of mine who fought. Never checked into it. My mom was an Alabamian and my dad was from Ohio, so I'm sure I had some on each side, as we all probably did.

Not necessarily. Case in point: I don't think any of my ancestors fought in the Civil War on either side.

My paternal grandparents were born in 1901 and 1905. My maternal grandparents were born in 1889 and 1903. Each of my grandparents had parents born in the U.S., but grandparents (on both sides) who were not. Based on that information, I'd put my family's arrival in the U.S. as sometime between 1850 and 1870, contemporaneous, or nearly so, with the Civil War. I could be wrong about this, but if I had to bet I'd say that no one in my family fought in the Civil War given the timing of my family's entrance into the U.S. And there are lots of people around my age whose families entered the U.S. far later than mine did.

If they did fight in the Civil War, I'm at least 99% sure that it was exclusively on the Union Side. I'm the only member of my family who has ever lived in the Old Confederacy AFAIK (and in my case, it wasn't by choice).

[Terry in Crapchester]

What the fork ever, Uncle T in Crap....and I DO mean CRAP!!!


Go stick some fukken meat in your mouth, you babbling lower tier barrister. Take a holiday from trying to make some sort of cuddly group hug point.

JEASE US.....WHAT a pathetic post you made in reply to Sam. Don't discuss this crap any further, dummfuk. You're giving me the appearence in my minds eye that you'e something of a spent widget in both looks and intelect. Keep out of this shit.[/quote]

Cuddly group hug point? Shit, I thought I was disagreeing with Same on his point that "all of us" had ancestors who fought in the Civil War on both sides.

Go fuck your mother, you drunken pedophile. Then do society a favor and put a cap in your dome.

[smackaholic]

chip, or DEK if you prefer, I think you will find that your family's treatment of it's slaves was more the rule than the exception.

The idea that slave owners mistreated their slaves as a general rule doesn't make much sense. Why the fukk would someone want to purposely mistreat their own property, especially when they depended on that property's productivity for their livelyhood. Not defending slavery as it is morally reprehensible act. Just saying that I am sure that many slave owners had good relations with their slaves. Just as ole tom jefferson.

Too bad we have pols in place now that want to basically take up where chip's great, great.....grandaddy left off and be a kinder gentler massah.

[Mr T]

If anyone on this board thinks any war in human history was fought over any other issue besides wealth/resources, plaese chime in here... so the rest of us can laugh uncontrollably.

True that.


Never understood flying the CSA Battle Flag. It never represented the CSA nationally.

You would be more historically accurate being proud of this flag...

or this...

[BSmack]

Tart,

Those flags don't look nearly as good as the battle flag on a bikini.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

:puke:


That 'ho is nasty.

[smackaholic]

:puke:


That 'ho is nasty.

sin,

gax dude

c'mon man, she ain't a ten, but, you'd hit it just like the rest of us, well, most of us anywho.

[Mikey]

:puke:


That 'ho is nasty.

c'mon man, she ain't a ten, but, you'd hit it just like the rest of us, well, most of us anywho.

Seriously, put your glasses on and take a look at that shit.
Maybe you've fuck anything with two arms, two legs (or at least the remnants) and holes in all the right places, but speak for youself.
Would you really be attracted by a mouth that undoubtedly smells like a half full beer can the morning after it doubled as an ashtray? Bags of oatmeal that would hang below the navel without those stars and bars? Legs that look like saran wrap stuffed with cottage cheese?

[smackaholic]

let's have a pick of mrs mikey in a bikini up there.

[LTS TRN 2]

That's no dude..............pass.

[SunCoastSooner]

Also, why would anyone want to fly a rebel flag? It's not the flag of a country.

But it is part of our heritage however much some politically correct handwringers would like to sanitize it from the record. It is the single most dramatic and traumatic event in American history. Rejection of and rebellion against distant authority insensitive to local economic concerns remains part of the American character.

Sorta sounds familiar.



Marty,

Imagine you had ancestors who fought to protect their land and their way of life. A lot of those ancestors were killed in battle or died in prison camps. 150 years later, people are telling you that your ancestors were horrible people...even though you know they were good people. Hard-working, honest people. I think that's why a lot of people in the south like the Confederate battle flag. And they're proud those ancestors had the balls to tell the federal government to fuck off...we're outta here.

I don't know of any relatives of mine who fought. Never checked into it. My mom was an Alabamian and my dad was from Ohio, so I'm sure I had some on each side, as we all probably did. I think the battle flag is a beautiful design, but I don't keep one around or fly one. But I do understand why some people like it. A lot of folks down here who have them don't know a damn thing about the war...or whether they had ancestors who fought for the south...or anything else about the flag. They're morons who act like idiots and think it's cool to have one. There are others, in the north and south, who don't know anything about the war either...and they accuse everyone who likes the flag of being a racist. Those people are also morons who act like idiots.

I think it's a pride thing for those who actually know something about history. Southerners were so rundown after the war, and are still crawling out from under the economic oppression that followed...it's like southern football. It's something to feel good about.

Hell, I don't know. A lot of dumbasses have Confederate battle flags and a lot of very smart, good, non-racist people have 'em, too.

Have a good holiday.

I'll preface this by stating that most of my Caucasian ancestors arrived after the Civil War though on one branch of my family tree we did have three brothers and their father who amongst them fought for both sides. The father and youngest son for the Confederacy and the two older brothers for the Union out of Kansas. The other side of my family is Choctaw and they fought for the Union; One of my great great great grandfathers was involved in burning down Talequah which was the Cherokee capital who were aligned with Confederacy... but basically it was just an excuse to kill a bunch Cherokee bastards. :wink:

Save one issue the South was pretty much correct on every other front concerning their reasons for fighting the civil war. Slavery only directly effected 8% of the southern population and it wasn't even a main point in the war for the Southern States. The Federal government had been overstepping its bounds and has ever since the North won the was of the states. History is traditionally written by the winners and the North won; they have re-written history to make it seem as though the war was over slavery when it most certainly was not at the time and absolutely not to the majority of the Southern soldiers; especially the rank and file.

[SunCoastSooner]

it's that Asperger's thing, or so they tell me.

I always have pictured you as a high functioning Autistic kind of fellow... :wink:

[SunCoastSooner]

they have re-written history to make it seem as though the war was over slavery when it most certainly was not at the time

Guess a-fucking-gain, dipshit. Or were the various articles of secession by the Southern states rewritten after the war?

It's OK to not know what the fuck you're talking about, but it's a pretty good idea to shut the fuck up when that is the case.

Notice I mentioned the rank and file... dumb fuck... reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? And they allow you to educate people and grade their exams... this scares the fuck out of me. The vast majority of the soldiers fighting for the South didn't give a flying fuck about slavery and were fighting for infringements upon their rights.

[Dan Vogel]

The confederate flag is a symbol of oppression. I can't get around that. I think of that when I see that flag. I know many people see other things when they see that flag but oppression was part of the mix. It can't be denied. The flag should not be against the law but I think it would be a lot more respectful for people who need to see that flag to do so in the privacy of their own home. I'm proud of the Amerian flag but am not proud of that flag.

[dingus]

What people commonly think is the Confederate flag, i.e. the one on the General Lee in Dukes of Hazzard, is not the national flag of the Confederacy but the battle flag of the Confederate Army. The ANV's was square, the Army of the Tennessee's was rectangular. It is somewhat an American tradition to fight for what you believe-even if it's wrong which I believe the Southern cause was, and many of the descedants of Confederate soldiers are angry at the villification of the ancestors the vast majority of whom were not slave owners. Rightly or wrongly, fighting to preserve an economy that not only didn't benefit them but hurt them and manipulated to do so by the plantatation owning class, they believed that it was their right to determine for themselves their political fate and their ancestors honor them by flying the battle flag.

The "Flying Dutchman" of Chancellorsville and Gettysburg was the 11th Corps not the 13th.

[LTS TRN 2]

Why did the North invade? This is the real question. Lincoln answered thus..

In August, 1862 Lincoln wrote a letter to Horace Greeley, an editor of the New York Tribune, who published an open letter insisting President Lincoln free the slaves immediately. In Lincoln's reply he wrote "If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that"

An imperialist agenda means invading and controlling someone else's land, etc. And this is exactly what happened. The fact that the North claimed the South couldn't secede is a matter of constitutional debate.

[LTS TRN 2]

The firing upon Ft. Sumter was basically like Tonkin Bay--a baited provocation.

Jefferson had weighed in solidly on the rights of states to secede, etc. It's obviously a thorny issue, but the mandate of the North was very clear: using the "moral imperative" of ending slavery as a justification, they invaded the South.