Big Ten Expansion Yet Again

[WolverineSteve]

Wisconsin's 7-22 record over the last 29 vs Iowa is quite impressive.

What a tool.

How about conference titles and Rose Bowl Championships the last 29 years?

How many times do we have to have the same debate?

[TheJON]

Iowa has nearly twice as many conference titles in the last 29 years you fucking tard.

The ONLY edge Wisconsin has is Rose Bowl wins. But Iowa has more wins, more conference titles, dominates them head-to-head, more bowl appearances, more bowl wins, more Top 10 finishes, more Top 25 finishes, more everything...............over the last 30+ years.

Yeah, clearly they're better.

You're dumb if you think Iowa is not a better program than Wisconsin. It's really not that close. We can talk recent history or we can go back more than a quarter of a century. You take your pick............either way, the edge goes to Iowa and only a complete fucking idiot would disagree with that.

[TheJON]

What? 29 years is a perfectly logical sampling. I mean, c'mon, it's every bit as logical as pulling out, oh, say, 31, 4, 59 or 16.

Fine...........

22-8 in the last 30. Is that good enough? How's about winners of the last 2? Iowa has the edge head-to-head over Wisconsin during any timeframe except the late 90's-early 2000's in my lifetime.

Whatever timeframe you wanna go by, we fucking own Wisconsin. Not only in Kinnick, but also at Camp Randall. There is no comparison between the programs.

Hell, ESPN even ranks Iowa's program 2nd in the Big-10 during the decade of the 2000's, and Wisconsin checks in..............at #5.

We can go last 10 years, we can go last 2 years, we can go last 30 years............you name it. Iowa is better. You can't argue otherwise. You'd have to be a fool

[Van]

Okay, but in addition to owning them, are they also your inferiors?

[Terry in Crapchester]

I think the Big10 already knows who they want/wants. I believe it will be more than 1 team, with a possibility of 3 teams coming to the conference.

Super Conferences are the future, once the Big10+1 grabs 3, then all hell breaks loose.

CU,Tejas, ? , and ? to Pac10?

And if they were to leave, I think the Texas leg would pressure them to play Taco Tech every year as well. So I don't see any advantage to moving to the Pac-10 for them.

The Texas legislature gives two sits about Taco Tech... outside of the big 2 (aTm, and ut) their baby is Baylor.

Baylor being a private school, I'm not sure the Texas leg could force a Texas-Baylor matchup if Texas were to leave the Big XII. Similar reason to why there isn't a Florida-Miami annual game.

[King Crimson]

Baylor being a private school, I'm not sure the Texas leg could force a Texas-Baylor matchup if Texas were to leave the Big XII. Similar reason to why there isn't a Florida-Miami annual game.

i'm not sure about a UT-BU matchup? i think what SCS means (and he can correct me) is that BU as a school puts a lot of people in the Texas legislature and they have a kind of "protected" status as a result. they were shoehorned into the Big XII as a function of politics more than "merit" by most people's (including Texans) account of the SWC fallout. that private school, moneyed politicos (and Gov. at the time Ann Richards) wanted their school in the big boy prestige league....and not C-USA/WAC type detritus.

i'd guess had SMU not imploded in the late 80's....the Ponies would have been that 12th team. good to very good in football, a solid decade of hoops in the 80's with the Koncak teams etc, equal to BU in academics more or less, also private.

[TheJON]

Okay, but in addition to owning them, are they also your inferiors?

Yes, for the simple reason that there's nothing but fatties in that state. I'm not saying Iowa doesn't have plenty of fat people but we're far from Wisconsin.

Badger fan.......



Hawkeye fan.........



Just sayin'...............

[Van]

It's Sally Struthers as a young lass.

[King Crimson]

nice coochie shot but nothing else really. basically, your average undergrad fake blonde at Anywhere U. and the mascara thing is weird. but, that's not just at Iowa. i'll bet she wears Uggs boots and black tights 8/10 days in the winter. the other 2 she wears the skinny jeans tucked into knee-high boots. that's the official college girl fashion these days. it's like they clone them somewhere.

[King Crimson]

nice coochie shot but nothing else really. basically, your average undergrad fake blonde at Anywhere U. and the mascara thing is weird. but, that's not just at Iowa. i'll bet she wears Uggs boots and black tights 8/10 days in the winter. the other 2 she wears the skinny jeans tucked into knee-high boots. that's the official college girl fashion these days. it's like they clone them somewhere.

By all indications, somewhere near Tuscaloosa.

i'm pretty sure there's a main distribution center around here.....though, while it seems to make sense that you are wearing "eskimo" boots (originally designed for surfers to wear in cold waters (google Uggs))....your ass is NOT looking that much smaller with the big thigh boots and black tights.

[King Crimson]

The look that I can't seem to get my head around is the rain gear. Umbrella, rain coat, running shorts, duck boots. Something about that looks really odd.

we don't have that here. that's sounds like Petula Clark or something. the faux-urban Canarby Steet for sorority girl # middling.

and i like Petula Clark.

90% of college chick fashion is "my butt doesn't look big in this?:". disproportions one way and the other to offset the middle. the sweatshirt around the waist.

[King Crimson]

and SCTV's Tom Monroe (with a SCTV fictional Doobie's Michael McDonald):

Downtown:

[PrimeX]

Now this would certainly shake things up a little bit.

Back in the middle of December, the Big Ten publicly acknowledged that expansion was officially on the table. Almost immediately, names like Missouri, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and the like were mentioned as possibilities.

Based on at least one report, you can push those little minnows to the shallow end of the pool for now. The conference has its eyes on a whale of a school.

According to a report in the Lawrence Journal-World, and citing a source with ties to the conference, the Big Ten and Texas have engaged in "preliminary exchanges" about the Big 12 school switching leagues and joining an expanded Big Ten.

"There have been preliminary exchanges between the Big Ten and Texas," the source told the Journal-World on Wednesday. "People will deny that, but it's accurate."

With the exception of Notre Dame, landing Texas would be far and away the biggest get for the Big Ten. Given the eyeballs the state of Texas would bring to the Big Ten Network, you could even make a pretty good argument that they would be a bigger get than the Irish.

As for the geographic distance between the current member schools and Texas, the Journal-World writes that "[t]ravel costs, in terms of money and fatigue, make Texas seem on the surface like a stretch, but TV revenue would more than make up for the fatigue factor."

Given the conference's own time table -- they said in January that a decision on whether to expand would take anywhere from 12 to 18 months -- this is obviously very preliminary.

But, still, the idea of Texas moving to the Big Ten would certainly send a major tremor through the college football world in general, and the Big 12 specifically. Especially if the rumors come to fruition and Colorado bolts for the Pac-10.

One thing seems certain in all of this: the landscape of the game is almost certain to look much different in two years than it does right now.[/rquoter]

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.co ... ial-talks/

[King Crimson]

blah blah blah Texas fan.

Texas will never join a conference where they have real competition in the resource department, like Michigan or Ohio State. UT's whole hairy palm self-love is about out-spending everyone else and tossing off about it in their regional fiefdom disguised as some kind of "true america" ideology.

you'd think they'd ahve more than 3 conference titles in 15 years and 1 NC in the last 30 out of it. as awesome as they are.

[King Crimson]

not a rant, it's the truth.

[PrimeX]

Jesus Keeerist, change your Tampax. I found the article and didn't even comment on it as I have no doubt Texas isn't leaving the Big12. I do find your true hatred for anything Texas insanely monotonous.

[PSUFAN]

that was totally rerad.

[King Crimson]

Jesus Keeerist, change your Tampax. I found the article and didn't even comment on it as I have no doubt Texas isn't leaving the Big12. I do find your true hatred for anything Texas insanely monotonous.

this dismissive it doesn't matter to me but you guys are all obsessed and shit is about the easiest rhetorical game going.

flowered up with some 3 syllable adjectives.

[War Wagon]

Jesus Keeerist, change your Tampax. I found the article and didn't even comment on it as I have no doubt Texas isn't leaving the Big12. I do find your true hatred for anything Texas insanely monotonous.

I'm pretty sure King Crimson hates everyone and while he may be insane, he's not boring.

[King Crimson]

/quote]

I'm pretty sure King Crimson hates everyone and while he may be insane, he's not boring.

man, i probably ought to sig that shit up....if i weren't such a Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar fan.

Texas fan can suck it. i think Prime is pretty cool and i think i promised him a smiths live lp once....which i hate music people who don't follow up.

[PSUFAN]

KC vs. Prime = good reading, and an honorable contest

Wags vs. wags = call in the hazmat crew and close the curtain

[PrimeX]

i think Prime is pretty cool and i think i promised him a smiths live lp once....which i hate music people who don't follow up.

S'all good. I had one of those days at work at whatnot. I'd still dig that LP though. :wink:

And BTW- Even I know this is just Texas trying to get more money out of the BIG 12 TV deal. I ain't all dumb. Just a little.

[Truman]

And BTW- Even I know this is just Texas trying to get more money out of the BIG 12 TV deal.

How much more cayshe from The 12 could Tejas possibly want? Milk's 'bout run dry on that heifer, Prime...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3409420

[SunCoastSooner]

Baylor being a private school, I'm not sure the Texas leg could force a Texas-Baylor matchup if Texas were to leave the Big XII. Similar reason to why there isn't a Florida-Miami annual game.

i'm not sure about a UT-BU matchup? i think what SCS means (and he can correct me) is that BU as a school puts a lot of people in the Texas legislature and they have a kind of "protected" status as a result. they were shoehorned into the Big XII as a function of politics more than "merit" by most people's (including Texans) account of the SWC fallout. that private school, moneyed politicos (and Gov. at the time Ann Richards) wanted their school in the big boy prestige league....and not C-USA/WAC type detritus.

i'd guess had SMU not imploded in the late 80's....the Ponies would have been that 12th team. good to very good in football, a solid decade of hoops in the 80's with the Koncak teams etc, equal to BU in academics more or less, also private.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Other than UT, Baylor pretty much dominates politics within the state of Texas. TiC should do a search on my rendition of what occurred within the Big 8 during the Texas expansion time period. Baylor was pretty much thrust upon the conference to get the deal through the Texas Legislature.

i think Prime is pretty cool and i think i promised him a smiths live lp once....which i hate music people who don't follow up.

S'all good. I had one of those days at work at whatnot. I'd still dig that LP though. :wink:

And BTW- Even I know this is just Texas trying to get more money out of the BIG 12 TV deal. I ain't all dumb. Just a little.

Dude forgets to send you an LP and it's "s'all good" but I'm still being thrown under the bus for The Wire debacle... fucker. :wink:

[Terry in Crapchester]

Update (maybe not much of one, but since we're in the dead of the offseason) . . .

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co ... 944.column

Big Ten told it’s safe to expand horizons

Teddy Greenstein

9:59 p.m. CST, March 1, 2010
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An initial report commissioned by the Big Ten offered this suggestion to conference officials: Just say yes to expansion.

A source inside the league told the Tribune that the report, prepared by the Chicago-based investment firm William Blair & Company, analyzed whether five different schools would add enough revenue to justify expanding the league beyond 11 teams.

"The point was: We can all get richer if we bring in the right team or teams," the source said.

The five analyzed were Missouri, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Rutgers. The source, though, called those five "the obvious suspects" and cautioned that other universities could earn consideration.

It's also widely assumed that Notre Dame, which came within a whisker of joining the league in 2003, is not ready to give up its football independence, with Irish athletic director Jack Swarbrick saying in December: "Our strong preference is to remain the way we are."

The report got to the crux of the decision that will face Big Ten chancellors and presidents: If they expand to 12 or 14 schools, would they increase the current $21 million-$22 million a year each school receives from the league's revenue pie?

If the Big Ten decides it wants to expand, one plausible scenario would have the conference negotiate specific terms for entry.

It's also worth noting that a Big East school opting to join would have to pay a $5 million "loyalty clause" fee, according to sources.

"You just don't jump into the league and get a full share of what everyone else in this league has established over time," Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez told the Associated Press. "I think someone has to buy their way into the league."

Alvarez declined to be interviewed for this story, as did Ohio State President Gordon Gee, another outspoken proponent of expansion.

Gee did tell Ohio State's student newspaper, The Lantern, that the two main motivations for expanding would be financing and "an inelegance in having 11 teams. We can't play each other quite like we want."

A 12th team would allow the league to split into two divisions and create a Big Ten title football game that would generate an estimated $15 million a year. That game would also address Penn State coach Joe Paterno's complaint that the league "goes into hiding for six weeks" after the regular season.

Two sources told the Tribune that they believe the Big Ten will expand largely because Commissioner Jim Delany, who in 2008 signed a five-year contract extension, wants to add another accomplishment to his legacy.

Since taking the helm in 1989, Delany has added Penn State, helped form the highly profitable Big Ten Network and grown revenue from about $20 million a year to $220 million.

"What gets Jim going," said a source with ties to Delany, "is doing something bold."

Other than submitting to a prearranged radio interview with WSCR-AM 670 last month, during which he shot down speculation that the league had contacted schools such as Texas and Pittsburgh, Delany has declined nearly all interview requests.

Reached Monday, he said: "This is not a quiet phase; this is a silent phase."

At times, Alvarez has been the public voice on the issue. He told Wisconsin's athletic board on Feb. 19 that the league had hired a firm to research 15 potential candidates.

As quoted by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Alvarez said: "They talked about academics. They talked about size. They talked about size of their arenas. They talked about attendance. They talked about the populace in that specific area."

Alvarez said he didn't believe Texas was on the list of 15, and Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds has since told AP that the school's relationship with the Big 12 "is working. I like it … We're always going to be looked at. I don't think that's a bad thing. That's a good thing."

If the Big Ten expands, especially to 14 or 16 schools, the ramifications could affect several major conferences.

As Gee pointed out, Penn State's decision to join the Big Ten in 1989 played a role in the collapse of the Southwest Conference, the Big Eight becoming the Big 12 and the Southeastern Conference adding Arkansas and South Carolina.

"Schools are concerned with what's coming," said an athletic director from a big-six conference school. "They'd rather be talked about than ignored."

If the Big Ten is looking for a new member to pay an entrance fee, you can pretty well eliminate Notre Dame. Meanwhile, at least according to the Chicago Tribune, Rutgers looks like the most likely candidate. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co ... 9535.story

On a related note, here's a query for Big Ten fans.

Lately there's been a lot of talk on ND boards about a future move toward four 16-team superconferences. I'm somewhat skeptical of that happening, for two reasons. First, there are significantly more revenue shares you have to distribute with 16 teams. Second, under the current schedule there would be very little connection between the two divisions, although that could be remedied either by the NCAA adding more games to the schedule or a superconference adding more games to its conference schedule. I've given it some thought, and have concluded that if it does happen, the Big Ten will be the most likely lynchpin, with other conferences following suit. So what do the Big Ten fans here think of the possibility of going to sixteen teams.

[Screw_Michigan]

Why would ND turn down a minimum of $10 million more in revenue by not joining the Big 11?

[Terry in Crapchester]

They don't want to join in the first place, even if it means more money. Throw in an entry fee on top of that, and you're adding insult to injury.

Right or wrong, the entry fee would create the impression that the Big Ten considers ND its least important member. And I could be wrong about this, but I don't recall Penn State having to pay an entry fee when they joined the Big Ten.

[Screw_Michigan]

Greenstein's a HACK! FRAUD! He's got a vendetta against ND and the Big 11!

Sin,

M Club, WolverineSteve

[Killian]

Add to that the fact that ND would have to pay the Big East $5 million to sever ties with the Big East, that extra $10 million in revenue wouldn't equate to a $10 million bump in profit.

Notre Dame athletics will never join the Integer if they have their way. The only way I see ND joining is if the academic side leans heavily on Fr. Jenkins to be a part of the academic consortium.

This would be a moot point if ND could consistantly field a quality product in the fall.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Add to that the fact that ND would have to pay the Big East $5 million to sever ties with the Big East, that extra $10 million in revenue wouldn't equate to a $10 million bump in profit.

As I understand it, there's an alternate 27-month waiting period for leaving the Big East in lieu of the $5 million exit fee. If that's not the case, you could kiss any of the Big East teams goodbye. Pitt, Syracuse or Rutgers would have a much tougher time coming up with $10 million to switch conferences than ND would.

Another possibility would be for ND to join immediately as a football-only member, then wait the 27 months for other sports. Of course, the downside is that ND's athletic department would then be dealing with two different conferences in its two revenue sports. That's hardly ideal, even if it's only for a relatively short period of time.

Notre Dame athletics will never join the Integer if they have their way. The only way I see ND joining is if the academic side leans heavily on Fr. Jenkins to be a part of the academic consortium.

I don't know if the academic side has that kind of leverage. ND has been able to develop a strong academic reputation without the Big Ten. On top of that, ND is a Catholic school, and focuses heavily on undergraduate education, whereas the Integer members focus mainly on grad schools and research. It's not as great an academic fit as it appears to be at first glance.

To me, the greatest threat to ND's continued independence is external, as in either the NCAA trying to force ND into a conference (not terribly likely as long as both Army and Navy also remain independent), or the more likely scenario is the emergence of four 16-team superconferences, together with a small (4-8 teams) playoff field that freezes out ND.

This would be a moot point if ND could consistantly field a quality product in the fall.

Agreed. If we're playing up to our standards, we don't need a conference. It's that simple.

[Killian]

Notre Dame athletics will never join the Integer if they have their way. The only way I see ND joining is if the academic side leans heavily on Fr. Jenkins to be a part of the academic consortium.

I don't know if the academic side has that kind of leverage. ND has been able to develop a strong academic reputation without the Big Ten. On top of that, ND is a Catholic school, and focuses heavily on undergraduate education, whereas the Integer members focus mainly on grad schools and research. It's not as great an academic fit as it appears to be at first glance.

They don't, and I don't see Fr. Jenkins as the type of president to bow to that pressure. Malloy didn't do it, I can't see him doing it. But there is a growing number on the academic side that want this done at any cost. As you pointed out, ND's undergrad programs are very strong but they would love to strengthen the graduate school programs. Tapping into the Big 10's vast grant pool would help them out in that regard.

In '99 the academic side voted almost unanimously to join the Big 10 and the athletic side shot it down just as quickly.

[M Club]

Greenstein's a HACK! FRAUD! He's got a vendetta against ND and the Big 11!

Sin,

M Club, WolverineSteve

screw = jon

[TheJON]

Greenstein's a HACK! FRAUD! He's got a vendetta against ND and the Big 11!

Sin,

M Club, WolverineSteve

screw = jon

Not true. I only play Screw on television.

[Screw_Michigan]

Swarbrick: Changes could be small or 'seismic'

NEW YORK -- Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said Tuesday it remains the school's "clear preference" to maintain its football independence, but that the possibility of impending Big Ten expansion and other conference realignment may ultimately impact the school's status.

"I believe we are at a point right now where the changes could be relatively small, or they could be seismic," said Swarbrick. "What I have to do along with [university president John] Jenkins is figure out where the pieces are falling."

In town to attend the Big East basketball tournament, Swarbrick and new football coach Brian Kelly met with a small group of reporters Tuesday morning. Calling the current college landscape "as unstable as I've seen it" in 29 years as a sports executive, Swarbrick said, "You could each invent a scenario that would force our hand."

The Big Ten, to which Notre Dame turned down an invitation in 1999, announced last December that it would actively begin exploring expansion. Commissioner Jim Delany has said the league will know better by this summer whether to proceed with the process. Last week, the Chicago Tribune reported that an investment firm commissioned by the conference investigated the financial merits of five schools -- Notre Dame, Missouri, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Rutgers -- and confirmed that the league's existing schools would gain revenue were the Big Ten to undergo expansion.

Numerous reports have indicated the league is exploring the possibility of adding more than one team.

Meanwhile, Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott said last month that his league is looking "very seriously" at potential expansion in advance of negotiations over its television contracts, which expire next year.

"You have two conferences [the Big Ten and SEC] that have separated themselves economically and you've got all the other conferences lined up for their [upcoming television] renegotiations," said Swarbrick. "The bar has been set so high, and the [current] media market is so tepid, that it creates a lot of tension."

Asked why current realignment possibilities would affect the Irish more so than other shakeups that have taken place over the past 20 years, Swarbrick mentioned several hypothetical scenarios.

"What if realignment impacted the shape of the BCS?" he said. "Also, the Big East has been a great home for us [in other sports], but if there are fundamental changes to the Big East as a result of realignment, what does that do? What if a few conferences further distinguish themselves from the field? What are the competitive ramifications of that?

"... That's why I'm spending 50 percent of my time right now talking to people [about this]."

Kelly, who came to Notre Dame from Cincinnati last December, said he appreciates Notre Dame's independence, but that he isn't well-versed on the full ramifications.

"I can tell you that it is great when you look at a schedule where you're playing teams from all over the country," he said. "But I know that we have to drill a lot deeper than that."

On Monday, Notre Dame announced the latest of several upcoming neutral-site games, a 2011 game against Maryland at FedEx Field. Last season the Irish played Washington State in San Antonio, and this fall they will face Army at Yankee Stadium. The initiative to play more "barnstorming" games began under former athletic director Kevin White (now at Duke), who lamented in 2006 that, "Over time, we've really begun to behave like a wannabe conference member. I think it was real important for us to go back to our roots and behave more like an independent."

Swarbrick reiterated Tuesday that, "while we're paying attention [to realignment], we're trying like heck to maintain our football independence. It's good for college football and it's great for Notre Dame. That's our goal."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/f ... z0hjDLrRh7
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

[WolverineSteve]

Greenstein's a HACK! FRAUD! He's got a vendetta against ND and the Big 11!

Sin,

M Club, WolverineSteve

Are you saying that I would disagree with the article or that I hate all writers? Both would be false. Maybe you're just being a dick? The fact that you're in the business and can't tell a hack from a legit writer speaks volumes.

[Screw_Michigan]

I couldn't generally care less about both scU-M's shenanigans and the crackpot reporting. I just love the continuous melt you guys are in.

[Screw_Michigan]

I thought you guys really saved your seething hatred for the Ann Arbor News? Even Terry Foster thinks you guys are whack:

When you couple this with an 8-16 football team the past two seasons, things are bleak in Ann Arbor. Of course when you bring this up hypersensitive Michigan fans get bent out of shape and say you are bashing the program.

From The Detroit News: http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/terr ... z0hjgwm3Et

[Terry in Crapchester]

Going back to this . . .

Why would ND turn down a minimum of $10 million more in revenue by not joining the Big 11?

Not that it's ever been entirely about money, but a coupla points here.

First, the $22 million number that gets bandied about by Big Ten honks is a bit of an apples-and-oranges comparison. As I understand it, the $22 million encompasses all sports, whereas the contrasting number mentioned for ND is football only. I'm not sure exactly what piece of the pie ND gets from the Big East's TV deal for mens' and womens' basketball. Hell, even ND's mens' lacrosse team appears on TV on ESPNU occasionally. There's also a Big East network, although it hasn't yet taken off to the extent of the Big Ten Network.

For purposes of this discussion, I'll concede that gross revenue from athletics is higher in the Big Ten. But it doesn't stand to reason, merely from that point, that the difference would be a net gain for ND. First, there's the proposed entry fee (although, from ND's perspective at least, that's more objectionable on principle than on a dollars-and-cents basis). Second, as Killian pointed out, there's at least the possibility of an exit fee to the Big East. There's also at least the possibility of breach of contract liability to NBC.

But from a financial standpoint, the biggest hit of all, far and away, figures to come in the form of alumni donations, far and away ND's largest source of revenue. It's been stated on here numerous times that ND's alumni are overwhelmingly opposed to football conference membership in general, and Big Ten membership in particular. It's one thing to say that joining the Big Ten would cost ND the fan support of a substantial portion of its alumni base. But it's quite another to say that many of those alumni will choose to withhold their financial contributions to ND, or at least a substantial portion thereof. ND will lose alumni donations if they join the Big Ten, no question about it. The only question is how much. From a conservative standpoint, seven figures per year is likely, and eight figures per year isn't out of the question.

So yeah, it's entirely possible that joining the Big Ten won't make ND any better off financially, and could even make ND worse off financiallly.

And btw, by another measure, at least, it's hard to see how membership in the Big Ten would help ND in any measurable capacity. Notwithstanding the lack of on-field success in recent years, Forbes magazine still values ND as the second-most valuable, financially speaking, college football program in the country, behind only Texas. http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/most-v ... tball.html

[WolverineSteve]

I thought you guys really saved your seething hatred for the Ann Arbor News? Even Terry Foster thinks you guys are whack:

When you couple this with an 8-16 football team the past two seasons, things are bleak in Ann Arbor. Of course when you bring this up hypersensitive Michigan fans get bent out of shape and say you are bashing the program.

From The Detroit News: http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/terr ... z0hjgwm3Et

Not sure your definition of melting, but surely different from mine. Pointing out shit journalism is not melting. Your obsession with UM and the UM'ers on here is nearing a level reached by few in the history of these boards.

[Screw_Michigan]

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2010/ ... l-be-done/

I noted in the Big Ten Expansion Index post that Notre Dame is now #3 in TV money… in its own home state behind Purdue and Indiana.

BWHAHAHAAHH