Wind and Green Energy.....lets layoff 114 to start with !

[Derron]

Green energy..yadayada...wind energy ..yadayada...tax breaks....yadayada...

Here it is...proof the mother fucking stimulus and that fucking monkey that is our president can't get it done.

Laying off 114 North American workers what about the economy?? The stimulus package focus..new jobs in wind and green energy...

Customers are unable to secure financing for renewable energy projects ???? What the fuck is that ?

See how much pub this gets...

http://www.vestas.com/

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/inde ... _on_s.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/inde ... _in_p.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/inde ... g_bui.html

[Mikey]

Vestas is a foreign manufacturer.

Solar PV is booming.

Large wind turbines are very hard to site. Locations with abundant wind are usually remote from the grid. Locations that are close to the grid have big NIMBY problems.

[smackaholic]

there are bazillions of windmills in the U&L and quite a few other places. trouble is, the damn things just don't make that much power. not enough to justify their huge cost.

PV is booming, but, my question is can it boom on it's own merit? would anyone other than pompous rich greenies buy it without huge tax credits or outright subsidies. PV might already make sense in SD or phnx. I doubt it will ever make financial sense in 90% of the country.

I think solar farms that generate using heat to make steam are probably more cost effective.

[Dinsdale]

there are bazillions of windmills in the U&L and quite a few other places.

Your thoughts, Trampis?

But they're "remote from the grid"... oh, wait -- they're near the largest hydroelectric plant in the country... and all along a buncha other huge hydro plants that feed much of the Western USA.

[Mikey]

there are bazillions of windmills in the U&L and quite a few other places.

Your thoughts, Trampis?

But they're "remote from the grid"... oh, wait -- they're near the largest hydroelectric plant in the country... and all along a buncha other huge hydro plants that feed much of the Western USA.

Thanks for proving my point you fucking moron.

Did I say that wind turbines were "remote from the grid"? Let's go back and check. Ok, no I didn't. Thanks.

I did say that locations with abundant wind are usually remote from the grid. Did you check your reading comprehension at the door (or did it exist in the first place)?

So you've got some wind turbines (windmills? ) that are close to the grid. Good for you. The majority of sites with a lot of wind aren't close to the grid. Do you see the difference there?

[Mikey]

there are bazillions of windmills in the U&L and quite a few other places. trouble is, the damn things just don't make that much power. not enough to justify their huge cost.

Large (most today are 1 MW or bigger) wind turbines are a lot cheaper than PV on a per kW basis. The capacity factor for PV is only about 20% in the best locations (you know, they don't work at night). The most ideal locations for wind have pretty constant wind velocity. Most of those places are remote from the grid. But you guys don't get that, so just fucking forget I mentioned it, OK?

[Dinsdale]

Most of those places are remote from the grid. But you guys don't get that, so just fucking forget I mentioned it, OK?

The second-largest concentration of wind farms (second to East Texas, which is by far the largest producer of wind power) is in proximity to the largest powerplant in the United States, which probably isn't "remote from the grid."

But you don't seem to get that, so just fucking forget facts, OK?

[Mikey]

God and g0d it's hard arguing with a mental lump of clay.

Of course the largest wind farms are close to the grid. THAT'S WHY THEY FUCKING BUILT THEM THERE. What percentage of the viable wind resource nationally (considering wind, but not proximity to the grid) do you suppose they represent? A large percentage of the "windy" areas are NOT close to the grid. THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T HAVE FUCKING WINDFARMS ON THEM!

And your U&L wind prolly wouldn't be anywhere close to the grid without the hydro. Most places don't have that.

[Dinsdale]

God and g0d it's hard arguing with a mental lump of clay.

Says the dude who just spouted off shit that was actually opposite of fact.


Ponder this, dumbass -- it's inefficient to transmit electricity too terribly far, so why would anyone even consider building a windfarm that is "remote from the grid"... since places that are "remote from the grid" are "remote from the grid" because...

you following?


BECAUSE NO ONE FUCKING LIVES THERE.

Which really cuts down on demand for electricity, no?

[Mikey]

God and g0d it's hard arguing with a mental lump of clay.

Says the dude who just spouted off shit that was actually opposite of fact.


Ponder this, dumbass -- it's inefficient to transmit electricity too terribly far, so why would anyone even consider building a windfarm that is "remote from the grid"... since places that are "remote from the grid" are "remote from the grid" because...

you following?


BECAUSE NO ONE FUCKING LIVES THERE.

Which really cuts down on demand for electricity, no?

Thanks for repeating basically what I said in my original post. It's nice that you could put it in your own words.

Large wind turbines are very hard to site. Locations with abundant wind are usually remote from the grid.

[Derron]

Nice gorilla dust....

What the fuck does it matter where the wind farms are located ?? It don't...

The point of the thread is the fact our monkey face president gets up and spouts on and on about green energy, solar and wind power, and stimulus money, every fucking chance he gets.

Then despite all the largess stimulus money he puts into green,solar and wind energy, all the sound bites and photo op's, the largest wind turbine manufacturer can not get it's clients paper to build new wind farms IN SUPPORT OF the stimulus money, and the fucking company starts adding to the nations unemployment rate.

And it gets buried by the liberal media with little attention.

Fuck Barry and his stimulus, green,solar,wind,sustainable bullshit. It ain't working.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I'm sorry your country is too stupid to figure out how to make turbines and solar panels.

[Trampis]

Lets look a little further down the road shall we then just the here and now. Each and every article Ive come across has the same tone that things will pick up in 2011. Heres a quote from one of the articles you sugested for reading Derron.http://www.oregonlive.com/business/inde ... _on_s.html

"We actually are very positive for the future with wind energy," Jokela said. "We think the market will turn around in 2010 and 2011."

Creating green energy jobs is more then just giving the manufacturers, be they here or in other countrys some spending money. In every article Ive read its about the government coming up with an energy plan that the renewable cenergy companies can budget around not only for this year but for the next 5 to 10 years.

You cant ask these companies to build plants and hire employees then pull the rug out from under them when a new administration or congress comes in. They need a commitment and a workable plan from the US government as well as state government that says "we will back renewable energy and here is how we will do it".

[Derron]

"We actually are very positive for the future with wind energy," Jokela said. "We think the market will turn around in 2010 and 2011."

QUESTION: How do you know when a corporate executive is lying to you ?

ANSWER: His mouth is moving.

You really expect him to say it is going to suck for the next 3 years?? The shareholders love that kind of jive.

Creating green energy jobs is more then just giving the manufacturers, be they here or in other countrys some spending money.

Really ? Maybe you can forward that on to Barry, since throwing cash seized from evil business is his thing.

In every article Ive read its about the government coming up with an energy plan that the renewable cenergy companies can budget around not only for this year but for the next 5 to 10 years.

5 to 10 years ?? How about minimum of 20 years and more like 30 years. My kid was about to switch his major in college to something that followed wind,green,etc etc. He got frustrated and decided that it was no where close to where it needed to be to make a decent career path.

You cant ask these companies to build plants and hire employees then pull the rug out from under them when a new administration or congress comes in.

Banks won't write paper on government backed projects with good bond ratings ?? Barry and his posse came in and said we are going to do this, and this is where it is at....

They need a commitment and a workable plan from the US government as well as state government that says "we will back renewable energy and here is how we will do it".

Workable plan from the government ?? Is that not what Barry has been spewing for the last 2 years ? Where the fuck is it ?

Oregon gave out mad tax breaks of around $ 300 million. The companies could use them, OR sell them at discounts to other companies needing tax breaks. Seems like the intent of "green" tax breaks right ?? That really helps out, and then the local liberals and state fucks cry 'BUDGET CUTS, BUDGET CUTS, bodies in the street, kids dying, old folks on the street, ohhh the horrrahhhh of BUDGET CUTS." So the liberal sheep pass additional tax raising measures by turning out the 35% of people that work for the government, ( unions, teachers, etc)and in low turn out elections, and then slam dunk the election.

The beginning of the fall of free market enterprise capitalism and the rise of socialist dogs.

[Dinsdale]

Oregon gave out mad tax breaks of around $ 300 million. The companies could use them, OR sell them at discounts to other companies needing tax breaks. Seems like the intent of "green" tax breaks right ?? That really helps out, and then the local liberals and state fucks cry 'BUDGET CUTS, BUDGET CUTS, bodies in the street, kids dying, old folks on the street, ohhh the horrrahhhh of BUDGET CUTS." So the liberal sheep pass additional tax raising measures by turning out the 35% of people that work for the government, ( unions, teachers, etc)and in low turn out elections, and then slam dunk the election.

Wasn't that sweet snowjob?

The public employee unions used money they ultimately got from the taxpayers to run ads filled with outright lies to raise taxes on businesses (while they're dropping like flies, really intelligent move) to generate revenue that essentially serves to increase the wages and bennies of... public employee unions (after they already had a large pay raise recently). "If we don't get that $750,000,000, we're going to cut off the things people depend on!"

Then, as soon as the ridiculous measures passed, Teddy the Spectator announces "BTW, we're recinding the energy tax breaks, which puts us an extra $250,000,000 ahead!"

Throw the bum out on his ass... hopefully right next to OneBigAssMistakeAmerica.


The tards who mail in ballots in this state probably won't punish the corrupt Aholes in Salem for this outrageous bait-and-switch scam to remove money from the productive Oregon citizens, and put it in the hands of those whose function is to siphon money from those who actually produce something tangible.

Not a sustainable economic model.


If "green" energy was indeed "green," it wouldn't need to be subsidized, since it would take less resources to produce than other forms of energy... sin, Marcus Allen, financial analyst

[Derron]

Of course I have to remind you of the tax cap of $ 100 million on all of Intel's Hillsboro facilities.

Can't be more than a billion or so worth of buildings and facilities out there..swwweeetttt.

[Derron]

Not a sustainable economic model.

What is this sustainable you speak of ?

Sin,

The Oregon economy for the last 50 years.

[Dinsdale]

Of course I have to remind you of the tax cap of $ 100 million on all of Intel's Hillsboro facilities.

Can't be more than a billion or so worth of buildings and facilities out there..swwweeetttt.

Good -- hopefully they drop it to nothing.

Corporations don't pay taxes, corporations merely collect taxes on the government's behalf.

Anyone who thinks otherwise ain't none too bright... like those who voted for 66 and 67, for example.