NCAA Wrestling Tourney

[Mace]

I know that no one gives a shit but Iowa wrapped up another national championship last night with the finals and wrestlebacks being held today/tonight. Iowa has 5 of their 10 wrestlers going for gold tonight and had 8 of the 10 earn All-American honors this weekend. The Brands brothers have resurrected the program to the Dan Gable level of excellence and have proven to be as intense sitting at mat side as coaches as they were as wrestlers. Props to the Hawkeyes for kicking the shit out of the wrestling world.

[smackaholic]

you are right mace. we don't give a shit, but, rack them anyhoo.

[SunCoastSooner]

This was Iowa's year to do it. Most of the power programs were severely rebuilding this year. Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Iowa State, and Minnesota are very young teams right now. Nebraska was decimated by injuries. Penn State has been in disarray with all the coaching changes the last few seasons.

If Iowa didn't win this year's tourney walking away it would have been a fuck up of monumental proportions.

[Mace]

This was Iowa's year to do it. Most of the power programs were severely rebuilding this year. Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Iowa State, and Minnesota are very young teams right now. Nebraska was decimated by injuries. Penn State has been in disarray with all the coaching changes the last few seasons.

If Iowa didn't win this year's tourney walking away it would have been a fuck up of monumental proportions.

This is their 3rd consecutive title, SC, not their first. The other programs you mentioned were wrestling for second place, which at the moment is held by Cornell. Iowa has put themselves back where they belong, as the elite wrestling program in the country, and they will remain there for years to come. The program slipped a bit under Zalesky but the Brands' have returned them to their rightful position as the King of the Hill. The Hawks will reload and win another title next year.

[SunCoastSooner]

This was Iowa's year to do it. Most of the power programs were severely rebuilding this year. Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Iowa State, and Minnesota are very young teams right now. Nebraska was decimated by injuries. Penn State has been in disarray with all the coaching changes the last few seasons.

If Iowa didn't win this year's tourney walking away it would have been a fuck up of monumental proportions.

This is their 3rd consecutive title, SC, not their first. The other programs you mentioned were wrestling for second place, which at the moment is held by Cornell. Iowa has put themselves back where they belong, as the elite wrestling program in the country, and they will remain there for years to come. The program slipped a bit under Zalesky but the Brands' have returned them to their rightful position as the King of the Hill. The Hawks will reload and win another title next year.

Iowa will have a little more competition from Oklahoma and Oklahoma State next year. Both teams produced five all Americans this season and of those ten wrestlers only one senior and one junior.

Oklahoma State is King of the Hill in the sport. Iowa has had its runs of glory no doubt and are by far and away the second best program traditionally but nothing even comes close to Oklahoma State's history. More team titles, more individual titles, and more all Americans than any other school. They've won at least two national titles every decade since the NCAA started having a wrestling title. Iowa, as good as it has been since the 1970s, is still a Johnny come lately in comparison to Oklahoma State. The Cowpokes are and always will be the undisputed kings of college wrestling.

[SunCoastSooner]

This was Iowa's year to do it. Most of the power programs were severely rebuilding this year. Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Iowa State, and Minnesota are very young teams right now. Nebraska was decimated by injuries. Penn State has been in disarray with all the coaching changes the last few seasons.

If Iowa didn't win this year's tourney walking away it would have been a fuck up of monumental proportions.

This is their 3rd consecutive title, SC, not their first. The other programs you mentioned were wrestling for second place, which at the moment is held by Cornell. Iowa has put themselves back where they belong, as the elite wrestling program in the country, and they will remain there for years to come. The program slipped a bit under Zalesky but the Brands' have returned them to their rightful position as the King of the Hill. The Hawks will reload and win another title next year.

P.S. if Nebraska hadn't had 70% of their line up get knocked out for the season they would have given Iowa a real run for their money. At this point they were just lucky that Brester could return to the mat so it wasn't a total loss on the season.

[Mace]

This was Iowa's year to do it. Most of the power programs were severely rebuilding this year. Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Iowa State, and Minnesota are very young teams right now. Nebraska was decimated by injuries. Penn State has been in disarray with all the coaching changes the last few seasons.

If Iowa didn't win this year's tourney walking away it would have been a fuck up of monumental proportions.

This is their 3rd consecutive title, SC, not their first. The other programs you mentioned were wrestling for second place, which at the moment is held by Cornell. Iowa has put themselves back where they belong, as the elite wrestling program in the country, and they will remain there for years to come. The program slipped a bit under Zalesky but the Brands' have returned them to their rightful position as the King of the Hill. The Hawks will reload and win another title next year.

Iowa will have a little more competition from Oklahoma and Oklahoma State next year. Both teams produced five all Americans this season and of those ten wrestlers only one senior and one junior.

Oklahoma State is King of the Hill in the sport. Iowa has had its runs of glory no doubt and are by far and away the second best program traditionally but nothing even comes close to Oklahoma State's history. More team titles, more individual titles, and more all Americans than any other school. They've won at least two national titles every decade since the NCAA started having a wrestling title. Iowa, as good as it has been since the 1970s, is still a Johnny come lately in comparison to Oklahoma State. The Cowpokes are and always will be the undisputed kings of college wrestling.

I'm very aware of OSU's wrestling history, SC, but much of their history is ancient, and their more recent history pales in comparison to Iowa's. Iowa's championship history didn't start until 1975, when Dan Gable was an assistant coach, but there is no arguing that Iowa has dominated college wrestling since then. Sure, they haven't won the title every single year, but they did win 9 consecutive years under Gable (9 of his 15 national champ teams from '76-'97). Here are the national championship years for Iowa:

1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, (4 in the 70s)
1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986,(7 in the 80s)
1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, (8 in the 90s)
2000, 2008, 2009, 2010 (4 in this decade)

I think that it's safe to say that Iowa, not Oklahoma State, has dominated the college wrestling world over the past 35 years, wouldn't you? Twenty three titles in that time period means that no one, not even Okie State, can claim to have won more.

Edit: In comparison, here's Okie State's national championship teams over the past 35 years:

1989 (1 in the 80s)
1990, 1994,(2 in the 90s)
2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 (4 in this decade)

Feel free to draw your own comparisons but Iowa's 23 titles versus OSUs 7 would seem to indicate there is a new King of the Hill. OSU's success in the 2000s (or Iowa's lackluster finishes) is what got the Brands brothers back to Iowa City.

[SunCoastSooner]

I'm very aware of OSU's wrestling history, SC, but much of their history is ancient, and their more recent history pales in comparison to Iowa's. Iowa's championship history didn't start until 1975, when Dan Gable was an assistant coach, but there is no arguing that Iowa has dominated college wrestling since then. Sure, they haven't won the title every single year, but they did win 9 consecutive years under Gable (9 of his 15 national champ teams from '76-'97). Here are the national championship years for Iowa:

1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, (4 in the 70s)
1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986,(7 in the 80s)
1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, (8 in the 90s)
2000, 2008, 2009, 2010 (4 in this decade)

I think that it's safe to say that Iowa, not Oklahoma State, has dominated the college wrestling world over the past 35 years, wouldn't you? Twenty three titles in that time period means that no one, not even Okie State, can claim to have won more.

Edit: In comparison, here's Okie State's national championship teams over the past 35 years:

1989 (1 in the 80s)
1990, 1994,(2 in the 90s)
2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 (4 in this decade)

Feel free to draw your own comparisons but Iowa's 23 titles versus OSUs 7 would seem to indicate there is a new King of the Hill. OSU's success in the 2000s (or Iowa's lackluster finishes) is what got the Brands brothers back to Iowa City.

Most of their history is ancient? Four national titles in the last eight years and the most this decade is ancient history?

34 national titles > 23 national titles.

Oklahoma State has accomplished those things wrestling in the predominant college wrestling conference in the country as well. The Big 8/12 programs have won more national titles than all other schools combined; Big 8/12 programs have 50 combined team national titles. The Big 12 accounts for the number 1 (Oklahoma State), number 3 (Oklahoma), and number 4 (Iowa State) programs on the national title list. Hell look at the standings right now three of the top six teams are from the conference, if Nebraska wasn't so decimated by injury it would most likely be four of the top seven. Every school in the conference that still has an active program is in the top 12 of the standings right now; all but one in the top 10. If not for Iowa's program they might as well call the college wrestling tournament the Big 12 invitational.

[Mace]

I said "much" of their history is "ancient", not "most". Trust me, SC, I am fully aware of the OSU wrestling history...and that of the Big 8/12, but you are either too stubborn or too stupid to accept the fact that Iowa has dominated college wrestling over the past 35 years. 23 national titles over 7 for Okie State in that time span is more than enough evidence to prove my point. The fact that the Iowa boys will be bringing home their 3rd staight championship trophy also proves my point. Pull your head out of your ass and admit that Iowa is the dominant program right now....and for the last 35 years. :roll: Jesus, SC, get a fucking clue and stop misquoting me. I went to the trouble of listing the years both schools won championships over the last 35 years and you seem to ignore the facts. This discussion is over, dumbass, and your fucking cowpokes can drag their severely beaten asses back to Stillwater.

[SunCoastSooner]

I said "much" of their history is "ancient", not "most". Trust me, SC, I am fully aware of the OSU wrestling history...and that of the Big 8/12, but you are either too stubborn or too stupid to accept the fact that Iowa has dominated college wrestling over the past 35 years. 23 national titles over 7 for Okie State in that time span is more than enough evidence to prove my point. The fact that the Iowa boys will be bringing home their 3rd staight championship trophy also proves my point. Pull your head out of your ass and admit that Iowa is the dominant program right now....and for the last 35 years. :roll: Jesus, SC, get a fucking clue and stop misquoting me. I went to the trouble of listing the years both schools won championships over the last 35 years and you seem to ignore the facts. This discussion is over, dumbass, and your fucking cowpokes can drag their severely beaten asses back to Stillwater.

No they dominated during the 80s and 90s. They have had a good run here the last three years but have also benefited from the Big 10's recent renewed interest and dedication in the sport along with coaching changes both at the top and amongst the majority of assistants at other national powers and injury or youth plagued Oklahoma State, Nebraska, Iowa State, and Oklahoma. Look at Oklahoma and Oklahoma State's starting rosters this season. They're both in the top six in the standings and they have a combined 3 seniors and 3 juniors wrestling as the starter out of twenty.

Congrats on the title but don't blow it out of proportion.

Like I said in the initial post if Iowa didn't win this title walking away with OSU, OU, Iowa State, and Minnesota being so young, Nebraska being decimated by injuries, and Penn State with their coaching fiascoes then it would have been a fuck up of monumental proportions.

[Mace]

No they dominated during the 80s and 90s

Yes, and they have also dominated over the last 35 years...since 1975. 23 titles in that time frame says it out front. If a college football team had won 23 national titles over the last 35 years, would you still be making all of the excuses for all of the Big 12 schools? Yeah, probably so. :roll:

[SunCoastSooner]

No they dominated during the 80s and 90s

Yes, and they have also dominated over the last 35 years...since 1975. 23 titles in that time frame says it out front. If a college football team had won 23 national titles over the last 35 years, would you still be making all of the excuses for all of the Big 12 schools? Yeah, probably so. :roll:

Severely beaten with seven Freshman and Sophomores starting, and six all-americans, by a senior laden Iowa program. Oklahoma State has been the most dominant team THIS Decade to go along with the entire overall history of the sport. Most National titles, most individual titles, most All Americans... THIS DECADE to go along with the most all time. They have finished outside the top 3 at the NCAA tourny only twice this decade, once out of the top 5, and never out of the top 10. Oklahoma State has Never finished lower than eighth at the NCAA tourny.

Really... you just tried to use college football as realistic analogical comparison to college wrestling? You're one of those guys who gives a shit because your school is good instead of being a real fan of the sport aren't you?

There are over 200 schools that compete at division 1 football, over 120 that compete division 1 FBS in football; There are over 60 "power conference" programs and a number of competitive "Mid Major" programs. There are fewer than 70 division 1 wrestling programs left and really only maybe eight to twelve that you could term a "power program" and really compete with the other programs that have a realistic shot at winning the national title at wrestling: Iowa, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, and Penn State... mayyyyyyyyybe throw the likes of Nebraska, Missouri, Michigan State, Minnesota, Cornell, Wisconsin, Pittsburgh, Edinboro, and Lehigh in that group in some years (and I stress the word some). Huge world of difference. You pretty much know who the top five programs are going to be virtually year in and year out in college wrestling and almost never is there a surprise like Minnesota's emergence in 2001... in fact other than them and the freak Arizona State title in the late 80s there is never a surprise or outsider that slips in the back door.

[smackaholic]

SC, stay the fukk down. You lose this argument.

This decade 4 vs 4. Call it a tie, although current bode=tiebreaker.

23 vs 7 ?

C'mon man. Your cowgirls have all timey 'bode, good for them and they were the undisputed champs when wolfie was just middle aged, but, damn 23 fukking titles in 35 years? How the fukk do you argue that one? And going to the "well our conference is better card?

pffftttt.

[SunCoastSooner]

SC, stay the fukk down. You lose this argument.

This decade 4 vs 4. Call it a tie, although current bode=tiebreaker.

23 vs 7 ?

C'mon man. Your cowgirls have all timey 'bode, good for them and they were the undisputed champs when wolfie was just middle aged, but, damn 23 fukking titles in 35 years? How the fukk do you argue that one? And going to the "well our conference is better card?

pffftttt.

"My Cowgirls"? I'm an OU grad... but I give credit where credit is due. They have ten more national titles than any other program. Iowa completely fell off the map when they went down... Oklahoma State never has. Even when Iowa was rattling off national titles Oklahoma State still firmly remained in the top three almost every year. When Oklahoma was rattling off national titles Oklahoma State remained in the top three. When Iowa State was rattling off titles they remained in the top 3. In it's worst years Oklahoma State never finished lower than 8th at the tournament. Oklahoma State is the only program in the country that has never finished outside the top 10 at the NCAA tournament.

Also Iowa has always greatly benefited from the large field format the NCAA tournament provides to crown its "national champion" and since they don't have a duals national tournament there really isn't any other measuring stick. Gable designed his teams specifically for the NCAA tournament format. Their program has always shunned the more prestigious smaller field tournaments such as the Brockport Gold, Reno Tourney of Champions, and Cliff Keen Invitational. Iowa has designed its team to rack up a number of points in the early rounds through the random draw outside of the seedings. You stick numerous of those national title Iowa teams from the NCAA tourny in a smaller elite field composed of the likes of just Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Penn State, Cornell, Nebraska, and Lehigh they don't walk away with the trophy. In many of those title years if you put them in a Duals tournament they don't walk away with the title. The NCAA tournament is a wrestling tournament that is so bloated that it rewards teams with the fewest "weak links" instead of the best field of wrestlers; anyone who is familiar with the sport and how a tournament is scored recognizes this and is beyond debate. Large field tournaments do not reward the best overall team they reward the team who is able to steal first and second round wins through the random draw outside of the seeded positions.

[BSmack]

Also Iowa has always greatly benefited from the large field format the NCAA tournament provides to crown its "national champion" and since they don't have a duals national tournament there really isn't any other measuring stick. Gable designed his teams specifically for the NCAA tournament format.

Utterly ponderous. Iowa wins because they "design" their teams for the most prestigious tournament on the schedule? And the other schools don't?

[mvscal]

Iowa wins because they "design" their teams for the most prestigious tournament on the schedule?

RACK!!!

--SECBSH

[SunCoastSooner]

Also Iowa has always greatly benefited from the large field format the NCAA tournament provides to crown its "national champion" and since they don't have a duals national tournament there really isn't any other measuring stick. Gable designed his teams specifically for the NCAA tournament format.

Utterly ponderous. Iowa wins because they "design" their teams for the most prestigious tournament on the schedule? And the other schools don't?

Other teams are just as concerned with their conference tournament as the NCAA tourney. The Big 12 tournament is a lot more difficult from a scoring points standpoint than the NCAA field. The NCAA tournament it is most important from a first and second round advancement standpoint than producing individual champions or placing a grappler on the podium to win the title.

[Mace]

Iowa beat Okalahoma State, Iowa State (twice), Nebraska, Penn State, and Minnesota (twice) on their way to a perfect 23-0 dual record this season, so I think they would have done quite well in your national dual format. In fact, SC, Iowa won the Cliff Keen National Dual meet in January...beating Iowa State in the finals. Guess what? Okie State wasn't in attendance. I guess they only invited national title contenders, not the pretenders.

I grew up in Iowa, SC, and in a wrestling family, so I think I'm pretty familiar with the sport and with the history of the sport....so don't bother with any more fucking lectures on the history of wrestling. I know that Okie State has all time wrestling scoreboard over Iowa and everyone else...but I also know that Iowa has scoreboard on everyone else over the past 35 years. Denying that fact only makes you out to be the fool in this discussion. If you want to continue looking foolish, by all means, keep making an argument to the contrary and keep making USC-like excuses for Okie State and Big 12 shortcomings over the last three and a half decades. Have all of those Big 12 schools been "young and injured" for the past three fucking years? You don't like football analogies but try this one. How about trying to claim that Notre Dame has football scoreboard based on their storied history? Wanna try that one?

Edit: As for the toughness of the Big 12 tourney, just how many Big 12 schools have wrestling these days? Is it five? :roll:

[Mace]

As for the toughness of the Big 12 tourney, just how many Big 12 schools have wrestling these days? Is it five? :roll:

Correct - Mizzou, OU, OKie, NE and ISU

You can't even blame title IX for this - I can't remember the Kansas or Texas Schools ever having wrestling.

On a pure homer note - Max Askren won at 184 - Mizzou's 3rd National Champion

Yeah, Scott, I already knew the answer to the question I posed. Those are five good wrestling programs and, even though it's a five team tourney, it would be a good tournament. I'm not sure how Suncoast figures that the Big 12's five team tourney somehow trumps the Big 10/11 tourney, or the national tournament, but, hey, I don't understand how he could have made the argument he's so feebly presented here.

And props to Askren for winning the title.....and this thread was pretty much started on a "homer note". :)

[SunCoastSooner]

As for the toughness of the Big 12 tourney, just how many Big 12 schools have wrestling these days? Is it five? :roll:

Correct - Mizzou, OU, OKie, NE and ISU

You can't even blame title IX for this - I can't remember the Kansas or Texas Schools ever having wrestling.

On a pure homer note - Max Askren won at 184 - Mizzou's 3rd National Champion

Yeah, Scott, I already knew the answer to the question I posed. Those are five good wrestling programs and, even though it's a five team tourney, it would be a good tournament. I'm not sure how Suncoast figures that the Big 12's five team tourney somehow trumps the Big 10/11 tourney, or the national tournament, but, hey, I don't understand how he could have made the argument he's so feebly presented here.

And props to Askren for winning the title.....and this thread was pretty much started on a "homer note". :)

Mace, I never said Iowa was not easily the best team this season. In fact if you read my posts I said the opposite. If Iowa didn't win this year in a cake walk it would have been a fuck up of monumental proportions. The Oklahoma Schools are young as hell; Oklahoma's assistant coaching staff was completely replaced over the last two seasons with Jack Spates on the hot seat since we haven't been able to get over that third place hump at both the NCAA and Big 12 tournaments in a while now. Just like Iowa just being a consistent top 5 team isn't enough (unfortunately I think this season may have given yet another year, FUCK). Iowa only participated in the duals at Cliff Kleen but not the tournament. Ohio State won the Cliff Kleen tournament. Oklahoma State won both the Reno Tourney of Champions and the Virginia Duals.

As for your little roll eyes quip about the Big 10 over Big 12. Big 12 13-5 against Little Televen this season in Wrestling. Only one school besides Iowa was even able to pull a victory against a Big 12 program and that was Minnesota against Nebraska without Brester and Kolb. Little Televen "powerhouse" Penn State got blasted by both Oklahoma and Oklahoma State at the Virginia duals. Northwestern was completely embarrassed at the Lone Star Duals by Oklahoma by almost 40 points in a dual! Even the perennial whipping boy Mizzou ran roughshod through three little Televen teams.

Oh and don't preach to me about being from a wrestling family or try and make your opinion more valid than mine because you say you're from one. I wrestled up until I moved to back to Texas where they didn't have it in my area. I have two state team titles and two appearances on the podium from my freshman and sophomore years in North Carolina. My paternal grandfather was a Big 8 individual champion at KState. My maternal Grandfather was an individual national champion and 3 time team national champion at Central State (now Central Oklahoma), my father was a three time state of Missouri champion and has a great big shiny ring from the '74 Oklahoma national title, and my 2nd cousin has two bright and shiny rings from Oklahoma State in '68 and '71 from their national titles and two Big 8 individual conference titles.

Five are programs are left in the Big 12. But all are top 10-15 programs. You don't get a weak link unless you consider it Mizzou once the conference schedule is going and there are no gimme matches at the Big 12 tourny like in the Big 10 where if you get a top 3 seed you're almost certainly going to get an easy up and easy points for your team early. Smaller elite field tournaments are easier on the individual wrestler as far as wear and tear but much more difficult on a team and accumulating points. No gimme matches early for easy points, fewer wreslteback matches to earn and accumulate half points.

Texas schools didn't. Kansas and KState did. My grandfather wrestled at Kansas State before he went to OU for Grad school. Colorado had a team up until the late 90s I want to say. KState wrestling was a title IX casualty. Colorado had a pretty consistent team back in the day and was always strong at the heavier weight classes.

[Mace]

Gee, Suncoast, you'd think that someone with your supposed wrestling pedigree would have a clue. You don't. Your feeble fucking "young and injured" excuses...and that's all they are.....might get you by this year, but Iowa has won the title for the past three years. Were the Oklahoma and Big 12 schools "young and injured" for three straight fucking years? If so, they'd better do some better recruiting and forget about signing a bunch of pussies. Iowa's Ryan Morningstar at 165 wrestled the tournament with a torn MCL and PCL, and still finished 7th, so maybe you "young and injured" Big 12 boys need to man up a little and get out on the mat. Iowa does have a number of seniors on this year's squad but they had a freshman win a title and a sophomore who finished as the runnerup. Iowa does not graduate their entire squad, and certainly isn't graduating all of their national championship calibur wrestlers.

My statements about being from a wrestling family came because you claimed that I was only a fan because my team was good.....or something to that effect. I was going to wrestling meets before you were born, SC, so, like the Iowa wrestling program, I'm not some Johnny come lately. As for your success in wrestling in North Carolina, props to you. I may have to Google search to see if I can find even one high schooler from North Carolina that was worth a shit, but I'm sure there are probably one or two...maybe.

Anyway, I made a claim that Iowa has dominated the wrestling world for the past 35 years and, aside from being "young and injured", you've not been able to dispute anything that I've said. If you'd like to continue stepping on your dick, feel free to do so, but I'm out of this conversation unless you can come up with something even halfway intelligent. So far you haven't. You've skirted the fact that Iowa is the dominant program in college wrestling for the past 35 years, and prefer to make reference to Okie State's storied past (far beyond the last 35 years) to the time of Model Ts and the dust bowl.

One last thing....check the final standings from the tournament and you'll see that the Big 10 had more teams in the top 10 than the Big 12.....5 to 4. Oh, yeah, I know that Nebraska was injured or they would have been there too....but they weren't there. Iowa beat Nebraska 33-3 in the Cliff Keen Dual Tournament, along with Boise State, Minnesota, and Iowa State (in the finals). They also beat Ohio State 32-3, and Northwestern 49-0 in conference duals. Iowa was 23-0 in duals and took on all comers.

Anyway, like I said, you're boring the hell out of me and I'm done with this topic. Consider yourself to have lost by a tech fall.

[smackaholic]

I don't know a damn thing about wrasslin'. I won't even pretend to understand whatever the fukk it is that coaster is trying to say up above about OSU's wrasslin' bodeness, but I'll give it a whack.

In 35 years Iowa finished the season as national champs 23 fukking times. Not mythical national champs or dual meet champs or not in the big 12 national champs. Just plain old national champs, which, in my very rudimentary understanding of wrasslin' means their sweaty dudes rolled around on the floor with the other schools sweaty dudes and spent most of the time on top.

My arithmetic skills are way better than my wrasslin' understanding skills and I'm reasonably sure that 35-23=12. So, if OSU won every single fukking time iowa didn't, iowa would still have a damn near 2-1 advantage.

That = no matter the sport. EOS.

[SunCoastSooner]

Gee, Suncoast, you'd think that someone with your supposed wrestling pedigree would have a clue. You don't. Your feeble fucking "young and injured" excuses...and that's all they are.....might get you by this year, but Iowa has won the title for the past three years. Were the Oklahoma and Big 12 schools "young and injured" for three straight fucking years? If so, they'd better do some better recruiting and forget about signing a bunch of pussies. Iowa's Ryan Morningstar at 165 wrestled the tournament with a torn MCL and PCL, and still finished 7th, so maybe you "young and injured" Big 12 boys need to man up a little and get out on the mat. Iowa does have a number of seniors on this year's squad but they had a freshman win a title and a sophomore who finished as the runnerup. Iowa does not graduate their entire squad, and certainly isn't graduating all of their national championship calibur wrestlers.

You really trying to claim that scoring points in a large field tournament isn't a hell of a lot easier than a small elite field? Seriously?

My statements about being from a wrestling family came because you claimed that I was only a fan because my team was good.....or something to that effect. I was going to wrestling meets before you were born, SC, so, like the Iowa wrestling program, I'm not some Johnny come lately. As for your success in wrestling in North Carolina, props to you. I may have to Google search to see if I can find even one high schooler from North Carolina that was worth a shit, but I'm sure there are probably one or two...maybe.

NC is nothing compared to an Oklahoma or Iowa but wasn't exactly mine or my father's choice where we lived... the United State's military made those decisions for us. I also wrestled AAU and Cadet Nationals.

Anyway, I made a claim that Iowa has dominated the wrestling world for the past 35 years and, aside from being "young and injured", you've not been able to dispute anything that I've said. If you'd like to continue stepping on your dick, feel free to do so, but I'm out of this conversation unless you can come up with something even halfway intelligent. So far you haven't. You've skirted the fact that Iowa is the dominant program in college wrestling for the past 35 years, and prefer to make reference to Okie State's storied past (far beyond the last 35 years) to the time of Model Ts and the dust bowl.

Iowa has dominated the NCAA tourny... Iowa actually had a losing record to both Oklahoma and Oklahoma State in dual matches during the 80s, not sure about in early 90s or from 75-to 80. I remember as a kid that pissing my father and 2nd cousin off to no end that they could beat Iowa during the season but they always took the trophy home during the tourny. Oklahoma State always got hurt in the NCAAs because their lower weight classes weren't as strong in large field tournies, and Oklahoma because of it's heavier weight classes.

One last thing....check the final standings from the tournament and you'll see that the Big 10 had more teams in the top 10 than the Big 12.....5 to 4. Oh, yeah, I know that Nebraska was injured or they would have been there too....but they weren't there. Iowa beat Nebraska 33-3 in the Cliff Keen Dual Tournament, along with Boise State, Minnesota, and Iowa State (in the finals). They also beat Ohio State 32-3, and Northwestern 49-0 in conference duals. Iowa was 23-0 in duals and took on all comers.

Big 12 went 13-5 against the Big Televen in heads up duals during the season. Considering Oklahoma had three huge transfers and an almost entirely new coaching staff with the exception of the HC (who should be gone as well) I'll take a fifth place showing this season.

Wrestler here too - even went to one of Gables camps in Iowa City back in 79. Made State twice.

SCS Don't know how old you are but I got to be friends with a guy named Con Mock from UNC - did you happen to know him?

Don't know who that is to be honest. I am a youngster on this board. My HS coach was All ACC at UNC though; Mike Culbreath.

[Goober McTuber]

Take this boring bullshit to the wrestling forum.

[SunCoastSooner]

Take this boring bullshit to the wrestling forum.

If we had one I would use it but it would probably end up like the soccer forum and have twenty topics started by me with no reply.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

If we had one I would use it but it would probably end up like the soccer forum and have twenty topics started by me with no reply.

I was wondering how you generated about 5K worth of posts drivel and I'd never even heard of you until a few months ago.

[SunCoastSooner]

If we had one I would use it but it would probably end up like the soccer forum and have twenty topics started by me with no reply.

I was wondering how you generated about 5K worth of posts drivel and I'd never even heard of you until a few months ago.

I've been here longer than you. Most of my posts are about a real sport you avoid... football.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Most of my posts are about a real sport you avoid... football.

See you in the NFL forum, sport... or not.

[Goober McTuber]

Take this boring bullshit to the wrestling forum.

If we had one I would use it but it would probably end up like the soccer forum and have twenty topics started by me with no reply.

The soccer forum would be a good place for this one. IM, even better.

[BSmack]

Most of my posts are about a real sport you avoid... football.

See you in the NFL forum, sport... or not.

Wow. Just wow.

I guess this means all those times my JAFFL team has matched up against your team it was because you were "avoiding" football. And never mind all those Steelerfan v Patfan flame wars. Those never happened either because you were avoiding football. There isn't a rolleyes big enough for this self administered plungering of SCS's.

[Sirfindafold]

Is there a link for this year's results?

tia

[Goober McTuber]

Is there a link for this year's results?

I believe that Mace has SCS in full nelson Father Nelson, and they both seem to be enjoying it.

[velocet]

NO KEV IN FEENIX AGAIN MONDAY!!!!

[ChargerMike]

...go figure...who would have thought a college wrestling thread would be on the verge of page 2

[War Wagon]

As for the toughness of the Big 12 tourney, just how many Big 12 schools have wrestling these days? Is it five? :roll:

Correct - Mizzou, OU, OKie, NE and ISU

You can't even blame title IX for this - I can't remember the Kansas or Texas Schools ever having wrestling.

On a pure homer note - Max Askren won at 184 - Mizzou's 3rd National Champion

If it weren't for the Askren brothers, Mizzou would've canceled the wrestling program and channelled those funds to the diving team.

Never know when you might score a decent kicker off the diving team.