Tea Baggers and Glenn Beck et al

[JMak]

Where in the history of the US has the Congress required citizens to purchase a product or service as a condition of citizenship?

And 88 is right...the meaning of the Commerce Clause is now caught up in this sick joke that is the belief that the Court is an independent branch of the govt rendering judging from up high on the actions of the other two subordinate branches. But tools like JCS just post their appeals to a totally out of control court without at least recognizing the abuses of power being committed by the Court. Of course, he willfully ignores it because it's convenient to.

[Mace]

[Where does the U.S. Constitution delegate to Congress the power to impose financial mandates on the people?

Not in the Constitution, obviously, but what about Medicare and Social Security?

[Tom In VA]

Can you leymen help a layman out, what is "CC jurisprudence" ?

Specifically the CC, I'm guessing one of the C's is CONSTITUTIONAL.

CC stands for "Commerce Clause." It appears in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution, where the powers delegated to Congress are delineated:

Thanks again, I've been having cranial cramps all day long. They use a pretty broad interpretation of that whenever they want more power (money), don't they.

[Mace]

They should have been declared unconstitutional too.

But since they were not declared unconstitutional, does that not set a precedent for the current healthcare law?

[mvscal]

They should have been declared unconstitutional too.

But since they were not declared unconstitutional, does that not set a precedent for the current healthcare law?

No. The mandate requires everybody to purchase a product from private company. Make no mistake. This has nothing to do with healthcare. It's insurer care. It will inevitably drive up both the direct and indirect costs associated with health care.

[smackaholic]

if SS was sold as an insurance plan, it would have gone out of business a long time ago. put to an actuarial test, it is fukking horrible.

this being said, it's existence doesn't bug me nearly as much as the fact that there is a group of folks that don't have to play.

wanna guess who that might be?

if your guess was various gubmint employees in pension plans, you'd be right.

this is complete bullshit.

if i am required to play in this ponzi scam, so should cops, teachers and others who enjoy fat pensions partly because they can fund these plans with money the rest of us have to throw down the SS rat hole.

and now, these same folks will get special treatment on this healthcare clusterfukk.

are any of you libs out there in the private sector championing such shit getting a bit tired of having your prostate used as a speedbag?

[smackaholic]

The Supreme Court (in its early days) used to be willing to issue decisions that said something to the effect of "The Constitution doesn't mention the issue that you've petitioned the Court to review, and thus the States appear to have the power to do whatever it is that the petitioner is complaining about." And in response to that kind of a ruling, the people would amend the Constitution to clearly address that issue or enact a statute to address that issue. But now, since the Court can divine things from the words that no one else can see, there is no need to amend the Constitution. You just need to make sure your President appoints your kind of Justice to the Court.

you mean they actually realized that the constitution was a list of things the gubmint could do? what a concept.

you do make a good point about how nowadays, the idea of amendments has been pretty much forgotten since it's easier to just amend meanings.

[BSmack]

this is complete bullshit. if i am required to play in this ponzi scam, so should cops, teachers and others who enjoy fat pensions partly because they can fund these plans with money the rest of us have to throw down the SS rat hole. and now, these same folks will get special treatment on this healthcare clusterfukk. are any of you libs out there in the private sector championing such shit getting a bit tired of having your prostate used as a speedbag?

You do realize state and local employees are required to pay into SS?

[mvscal]

You do realize state and local employees are required to pay into SS?

Wrong, as usual Mr. Smack. In many states, teachers are exempt from paying into Social Security. Tell me you knew.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0547.htm

And I can find states in which cops are exempted too. Fail.

Hmm. No doubt it is purely coincidental that they are also public sector union members.

[Mace]

if i am required to play in this ponzi scam, so should cops, teachers and others who enjoy fat pensions partly because they can fund these plans with money the rest of us have to throw down the SS rat hole.

and now, these same folks will get special treatment on this healthcare clusterfukk.

Speaking as a retired government worker in Iowa who is now a substitute teacher, the husband of a 35 year school teacher, and someone who worked with cops for 33 years, we ALL paid into social security and medicare. Also, please give me your definition of the "fat pension" that I contributed to for 33 years, in addition to social security and medicare.

Your statement might be true in some states, but not all.

[Derron]

The unfunded liabilities on both programs is in the multiple trillions of dollars.

We are all going to eat this shit sandwich.

Of course, this does not include the expense of setting up new Federal agency (s) with thousands of jerk off government drones and funding this new experiment..that certainly should add another trillion or two to the process.

[Diego in Seattle]

We're sure glad that conservatives don't tell people how to live.

Sin,
Gays & lesbians

I don't care how you live or who you fuck (as long as it's not illegal), just don't get up in face about it

You mean like the very same PDA's that heteros perform?

and expect all the same rights and priveledges that people who exhibit normal human behavior are afforded.

Please point out where in the constitution that heteros have more rights than gays/lesbians. Take your time.

[mvscal]

Please point out where in the constitution that heteros have more rights than gays/lesbians. Take your time.

Please point out where in the constitution that homos (or pedophiles in your case) have fewer rights than normal human beings. Take your time.

[JMak]

"Muiltiple trillions"??

Sincerely,
over $45.8 trillion of unfunded liabilities coming our way, on top of a current deficit (total assets of the United States minus liabilities) of $11.4 trillion.

[JMak]

if i am required to play in this ponzi scam, so should cops, teachers and others who enjoy fat pensions partly because they can fund these plans with money the rest of us have to throw down the SS rat hole.

and now, these same folks will get special treatment on this healthcare clusterfukk.

Speaking as a retired government worker in Iowa who is now a substitute teacher, the husband of a 35 year school teacher, and someone who worked with cops for 33 years, we ALL paid into social security and medicare. Also, please give me your definition of the "fat pension" that I contributed to for 33 years, in addition to social security and medicare.

Your statement might be true in some states, but not all.

So don't pretend, though, that some public sector employees can be exempted from paying social security taxes.

Sincerely,
Alaska, California, Colorado, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, Ohio, and Texas which exclude public school teachers from Social Security

[JMak]

They should take their contentions up with the legislatures of the various states or the voters. There isn't anything in the Constitution that further differentiates men and women based on their sexual preference.

They have been and in most instances they are losing, hence, they're petioning the courts to simply make up new classes of people and divine new rights for these new "people".

[Diego in Seattle]

And how is it that gays are asking for "special" rights when they're asking for the same rights & privileges that hetero couples enjoy? If your wife were to end up in the ICU ward, you'd be able to visit her. Gays & lesbians don't have the ability to see their loved ones unless they're given the same access to a marriage license that you have. There's lots of other rights & privileges that are determined by whether one is married. So why are you calling your right to marry the person of your choosing a "special" right?

[Psycho Magnet]

And how is it that gays are asking for "special" rights when they're asking for the same rights & privileges that hetero couples enjoy? If your wife were to end up in the ICU ward, you'd be able to visit her. Gays & lesbians don't have the ability to see their loved ones unless they're given the same access to a marriage license that you have. There's lots of other rights & privileges that are determined by whether one is married. So why are you calling your right to marry the person of your choosing a "special" right?

I thought that this is where the smart people posted?

[Mace]

if i am required to play in this ponzi scam, so should cops, teachers and others who enjoy fat pensions partly because they can fund these plans with money the rest of us have to throw down the SS rat hole.

and now, these same folks will get special treatment on this healthcare clusterfukk.

Speaking as a retired government worker in Iowa who is now a substitute teacher, the husband of a 35 year school teacher, and someone who worked with cops for 33 years, we ALL paid into social security and medicare. Also, please give me your definition of the "fat pension" that I contributed to for 33 years, in addition to social security and medicare.

Your statement might be true in some states, but not all.

So don't pretend, though, that some public sector employees can be exempted from paying social security taxes.

Sincerely,
Alaska, California, Colorado, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, Ohio, and Texas which exclude public school teachers from Social Security

You really are as stupid as everyone claims, dumbfuck.

[JMak]

And how is it that gays are asking for "special" rights when they're asking for the same rights & privileges that hetero couples enjoy? If your wife were to end up in the ICU ward, you'd be able to visit her. Gays & lesbians don't have the ability to see their loved ones unless they're given the same access to a marriage license that you have. There's lots of other rights & privileges that are determined by whether one is married. So why are you calling your right to marry the person of your choosing a "special" right?

Bullshit you fucking liar. Gay partners need only draw up power of attorney documents and advanced directives directing the hospital to permit visitation. But even so, moron, married hetero couples are also restricted from visitation in several instances. Hence, it ain't a fucking matter of being married. Petition the hospitals to change their fucking visitation policies, jerkoff rather than destroying the institution of marriage.

[JMak]

You really are as stupid as everyone claims, dumbfuck.

LMAO! Yeah, I fucked that comment up...should have said cannot exempt rather than can exempt. I sucked it on that one.

The point was that states have the authority to exempt some public sector personnel from SS. And, yes, that means all of them.

[Diego in Seattle]

And how is it that gays are asking for "special" rights when they're asking for the same rights & privileges that hetero couples enjoy? If your wife were to end up in the ICU ward, you'd be able to visit her. Gays & lesbians don't have the ability to see their loved ones unless they're given the same access to a marriage license that you have. There's lots of other rights & privileges that are determined by whether one is married. So why are you calling your right to marry the person of your choosing a "special" right?

Bullshit you fucking liar. Gay partners need only draw up power of attorney documents and advanced directives directing the hospital to permit visitation. But even so, moron, married hetero couples are also restricted from visitation in several instances. Hence, it ain't a fucking matter of being married. Petition the hospitals to change their fucking visitation policies, jerkoff rather than destroying the institution of marriage.

Please lay out the specific examples of how gay/lesbian marriage would hurt the marriage between you & your wife. TIA.

[Mace]

You really are as stupid as everyone claims, dumbfuck.

LMAO! Yeah, I fucked that comment up...should have said cannot exempt rather than can exempt. I sucked it on that one.

The point was that states have the authority to exempt some public sector personnel from SS. And, yes, that means all of them.

Obviously they do, but only 14 states out of 50 allow it....not "many" but, some do.

[Tom In VA]

Please lay out the specific examples of how gay/lesbian marriage would hurt the marriage between you & your wife. TIA.

If two hot lesbians moved across the street and I could see into their room, she might catch me with bincolulars ?

[JMak]

I know, lets redefine the institution of marriage to allow polygamy, too. And lets include pets, too. I mean, not only should everyone have the right to marry, but everything should also have the right to marry. Because the institution of marriage has no other reason to exist except to discriminate against those who want to marry mutliple people or animals or bricks.

Seriously, why do these people believe that the institution of marriage should change to suit their preferences?

[Psycho Magnet]

I hate to be the proverbial turd in the punchbowl, but, as a former employee of the local ER, NICU, PICU, TICU and ICU this is total bullshit. We never stopped anyone from visiting a patient so long as the visitor wasn't a doctor.

[JMak]

And how is it that gays are asking for "special" rights when they're asking for the same rights & privileges that hetero couples enjoy? If your wife were to end up in the ICU ward, you'd be able to visit her. Gays & lesbians don't have the ability to see their loved ones unless they're given the same access to a marriage license that you have. There's lots of other rights & privileges that are determined by whether one is married. So why are you calling your right to marry the person of your choosing a "special" right?

Bullshit you fucking liar. Gay partners need only draw up power of attorney documents and advanced directives directing the hospital to permit visitation. But even so, moron, married hetero couples are also restricted from visitation in several instances. Hence, it ain't a fucking matter of being married. Petition the hospitals to change their fucking visitation policies, jerkoff rather than destroying the institution of marriage.

Please lay out the specific examples of how gay/lesbian marriage would hurt the marriage between you & your wife. TIA.

The impact on my wife and I is irrelevant, fool. We're talking about disrupting the institution of marriage to include people that were never intended to be married.

The burden is on you to provide a justification for wrecking that institution. You may begin...

[Diego in Seattle]

I know, lets redefine the institution of marriage to allow polygamy, too. And lets include pets, too. I mean, not only should everyone have the right to marry, but everything should also have the right to marry. Because the institution of marriage has no other reason to exist except to discriminate against those who want to marry mutliple people or animals or bricks.

When has there been any legitimate movement to legalize a marriage involving persons, animals, or objects THAT ARE UNABLE TO GIVE CONSENT, dumbfuck?

[Mace]

The impact on my wife and I is irrelevant, fool. We're talking about disrupting the institution of marriage to include people that were never intended to be married.

The burden is on you to provide a justification for wrecking that institution. You may begin...

There are a lot of heteros who were never intended to be married too.

Sin,

50% divorce rate

[Psycho Magnet]

The institution of marriage is a farce.

[mvscal]

THAT ARE UNABLE TO GIVE CONSENT,

The ability to give consent is defined by statute, dumbfuck.

[JMak]

I know, lets redefine the institution of marriage to allow polygamy, too. And lets include pets, too. I mean, not only should everyone have the right to marry, but everything should also have the right to marry. Because the institution of marriage has no other reason to exist except to discriminate against those who want to marry mutliple people or animals or bricks.

When has there been any legitimate movement to legalize a marriage involving persons, animals, or objects THAT ARE UNABLE TO GIVE CONSENT, dumbfuck?

Permitting gay marriage has directly led to multiple partner marriage throughout Europe.

Nonetheless, both represent logical extensions of your argument. If gay marriage does not affect married hetero couples, then animal marriage would not either. Follow your logic, dipshit.

[JMak]

The impact on my wife and I is irrelevant, fool. We're talking about disrupting the institution of marriage to include people that were never intended to be married.

The burden is on you to provide a justification for wrecking that institution. You may begin...

There are a lot of heteros who were never intended to be married too.

Sin,

50% divorce rate

And what?

Nonetheless, once again, you can blame the State for diminishing the integrity of the institution of marriage.

[JMak]

The institution of marriage is a farce.

Modern civilization depends on it, stupid.

[Diego in Seattle]

The institution of marriage is a farce.

Modern civilization depends on it, stupid.

Oh, do tell how that is!

[Psycho Magnet]

The institution of marriage is a farce.

Modern civilization depends on it, stupid.

Your use of the word modern is incorrect.

[JMak]

The institution of marriage is a farce.

Modern civilization depends on it, stupid.

Oh, do tell how that is!

Just how do you imagine a civilization to survive if you break apart marriage and parenthood? That's what gay marriage, among other things, does. Hetero marriage is the most successful family form in history. Gay marriage contributes to the decline of marriage by judging that all family forms are equal. They are not.

Parental cohabitation, legalized equalization of marriage, and ultimately, gay marriage mutually reinforce the decline of marriage. Together they are the end-stage of marital decline which was initiated by contraception, abortion, women in the workforce, secularism, individualism, and the welfare state. In sum, you have the declining birth rates throughout Europe and in Japan.

Psycho Magnet...perhaps I should have said western civilization as that's important to me or perhaps civilization, period.

[H4ever]

DId you read where I wrote he refuses money, is embarrassed about his finances, and treated her with OTC meds until she was obviously succumbing to her illness?

So he won't take money from his family, but is willing to take it from perfect strangers (taxpayers)?

How do you figure? Or did you skip past the part where he's paying 20 bucks a month to repay the fees incurred when his daughter almost LOST HER LIFE even though the hospital offered to write it off. Go fuck yourself Indy. Go suck some more corporate cock.

[Moving Sale]

Here's a question for you. If I am an enabler for handing an irresponsible person cash every time she fucks up, does that also make the government an enabler every time it hands her cash when she fucks up?

You're not too good at this society thing are you? Here let me help you. A person is supposed to checkity check check themselves before they wreck themselves. Your sis clearly is having a problem with that. The next group that should check her is her housemates as they have to live with her. Failing that it's up to family and friends that are not house mates. Failing that her neighbors should do it. Failing that the city should step up. The county is next in line and so forth. If ANY or those people are too much carrot and not enough stick then they have failed her as you have failed her.

May I add two more cents? Take the kids to dinner. Drive them to school. Take them hiking as you seem to like that. Buy them clothes. Offer to put them up for a day or a week or a month but under NO circumstances do you pay her rent or give her money. Offer to pay for rehab or job training but give her no money. If she crosses the line* after you have done this then turn her ass in to the cops or cps. If she doesn't step up or cross the line then you just have to go to bed at night knowning you've done all you can.

I know it's hard to 'cut her off' like that but believe me, I deal with this shit ALL the time and it's best for all involved, even the kids. Your present strategery is a losing proposition.

* By that I mean does something illegal or puts the kids at risk.

[smackaholic]

I don't know all the details because he is pretty embarrassed about how his finances are and refuses any help from relatives. We have to send the girl birthday and he then buys her the extra things he would love to give her. Never accepts money for himself.

So, see if I've got this right...

A loved one/member of your community/someone you had direct relations with had some hardships?

And you rounded up your extra resources and offered them to those around you in need?

You, despite Big Government's edicts to the contrary, felt compassion for those around you, and did what was in your power to help?

Wow, just think of how much more you could have helped this poor soul if the governemt didn't take half of what you earned.

Gee, this system only fuelled the "Greatest Nation In History" for 150 years or so.

Remind me again when that era ended?


Is the light coming on for any of you yet?


Helping those in need sure the fuck isn't the government's responsibility...


it's YOURS, assholes. And I do mean assholes.


Way to absolve yourselves of the duties of a Decent Human Being, and pass the buck to everyone not named You.


Hell, I'm pretty much poor. I don't have insurance at present. I've been predominately poor my whole life. Never had a whole lot, but always appreciated what I had. Maybe that has something to do with why I never turn my back on those in need... NEVER. If I have two winter coats, you get one of them if you're cold. If I have a burrito and you're starving... you now have half a burrito. If you need a few bucks to cover your rent/mortgage, I'll cover it if I can, just pay me back when you can.

It must be nice to be (some) of you guys -- absolve yourselves of basic obligations to society, and insist that Big Brother does it for you. I almost wish that I had been raised in an environment where I could even understand where you lowlifes are coming from. But my parents (one of which I lost last week) raised me to NOT be a fucking asshole -- that was actually a pretty big deal in my world. So now I'm stuck in the Old School -- where Right and Wrong supercede "the world owes me something."


In short... Fuck you, you theiving fucking assholes. Grow the fuck up and take some responsibility for your Fellow Man.


And welcome to Real Conservatism, H4. You did a good thing.

rack.

here's the fukked up part. apparently H4 and his family are decent folk and they have tried to help this poor sod. trouble is, he's too goddamn proud to take the help from friends and neighbors, cause he's gotta look'em in the eye. the solution here is have uncle sugar hook you up instead. you see, uncle sugar is no one man. he is US. so, it's just like borrowing from your self ('cept it ain't).

my guess is this guy could have taken his daughter to a walkin clinic and pleaded his case and maybe offered a token payment. i suspect they would have done something for her. worst case is they would have sent her to the ER who would have provided full care, no questions asked.