GOP gives up on health care, reconcilliation passes

[BSmack]

I guess they want to get back to holding up unemployment?

[smackaholic]

nah, barry's got that well under control.

[War Wagon]

I guess they want to get back to holding up unemployment?

7 months and change might seem like a long way off to you.

Make your time.

[BSmack]

I guess they want to get back to holding up unemployment?

7 months and change might seem like a long way off to you.

Make your time.

Oh yea, I'm quaking in fear for what the Republicans will be campaigning on. Can you see it now?

Vote Republican! We'll bring back preexisting conditions! Yea!!!

Vote Republican! We'll bring back lifetime coverage limits!!! Whooo!!!

Vote Republican! We'll remove all controls in health insurance pricing!!! Yipppeeee!!!!

[JMak]

Uh, fucko, the GOP doesnt have to campaign that hard. Clear majorities of people oppose Obamacare despite the Democrats deliberate lies that it will lower costs, cover the insured, and save money. Common sense tells you this. This is why the Democrarts had to bribe other Democrats just to ram it through via an illegitimate procedure.

Bri, exactly what about this legislation do you like? How do you justify piling even more debt on top of the deficits that Obama is generating and on top of the unfunded SS and Medicare liabilities?

BTW - the GOP abandoned their opposition to Obamacare, how? It was going to pass no matter what they did.

[mvscal]

Vote Republican! We won't bankrupt the nation.

[Diego in Seattle]

Vote Republican! We won't bankrupt the nation.

I laughed.

[BSmack]

Bri, exactly what about this legislation do you like?

Aside from the lack of a single payer system, what is not to like? Just off the top of my head the following are or will be law within 4 years:

• Bias based on preexisting conditions will become illegal
  Insurance companies will not be able to purge the sick from their rolls
  Yearly and lifetime coverage limits will be a thing of the past
  Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020
  Children can stay on their parent's health insurance until the age of 29
  Those who are mandated to buy insurance will receive subsidies up to 4 times the poverty rate

Just to name a few.

Oh, and in the reconciliation package, there's a landmark rework of the student loan process that will save the taxpayers billions of dollars and provide even more money for student financial aid without additional defecit spending.

How do you justify piling even more debt on top of the deficits that Obama is generating and on top of the unfunded SS and Medicare liabilities?

The CBO scored the bill as being a deficit reducer. I'm sure you have some Fox News commentator who thinks the CBO score is flawed. But I don't really care. And if Republicans have real solutions, let them propose those solutions and negotiate in good faith.

BTW - the GOP abandoned their opposition to Obamacare, how? It was going to pass no matter what they did.

They finally stopped with the needless obstruction. If you want to get picky.

[BSmack]

From now on, HSA accounts will only be permitted to be used for prescription medications. OTC stuff is no longer permitted.

Big deal. In a real civilized society, HSA accounts and the billions of dollars spent administering them wouldn't even be necessary. Anything that backs us away from the slippery slope of HSAs is a GOOD thing.

The credit to small business for providing health insurance only applies to employers who have average wages of $50,000 or less. What do you think that is going to do for wages? Employers will have to whack people and pay those who remain less in order to obtain the 35% tax deduction for health insurance coverage.

The median wage in the US is 27,000 dollars. The businesses of America need no help in suppressing wages, and they are not getting any help from this bill. Now I know your business is one of those rare exceptions, since you have a bunch of lawyers and paralegals. But then again, you should be offering insurance to all your employees.

There are additional payroll taxes that go on immediately.

Yea, if you make more than 250k. Pardon me while I stop giving a fuck about a 3% tax or whatever it is on income over 250k.

The state health insurance exchanges don't even get set up for several years.

Yep, not quite as fast as I would have liked. But they WILL be set up. And in the interim, there will be "high risk" pools set up this year to bridge the gap.

Oh, in other news, most people will go on with either their employer provided health insurance (with better regulation of insurance companies) or with Medicaid/Medicare. And your nitpicking over a few ideas that you claim are "Republican" is horribly weak. Who cares who's idea it was to kill lifetime limits or preexisting conditions? The fact is the bill moves us forward on those issues and many others.

And if you can't get behind that, then feel free to go all John Galt on us. I'm sure the world will miss a practicing lawyer. :wink:

[Tom In VA]

These guys are shrewd.

The adverse impact of these two bills won't be felt for awhile, long enough to where a Republican can be blamed.

[Tom In VA]

[Terry in Crapchester]

Uh, fucko, the GOP doesnt have to campaign that hard. Clear majorities of people oppose Obamacare despite the Democrats deliberate lies that it will lower costs, cover the insured, and save money. Common sense tells you this. This is why the Democrarts had to bribe other Democrats just to ram it through via an illegitimate procedure.

Huh?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... able_N.htm

Poll: Health care plan gains favor
Updated 1d 20h ago | Comments 12,428 | Recommend 178 E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |

USA TODAY/ GALLUP POLL

The new health care bill:


Source: USA TODAY/Gallup Poll of 1,005 adults Monday. Margin of error: +/-4 percentage points.

By Susan Page, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.
By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

The largest single group, 48%, calls the legislation "a good first step" that needs to be followed by more action. And 4% say the bill itself makes the most important changes needed in the nation's health care system.

"After a century of striving, after a year of debate, after a historic vote, health care reform is no longer an unmet promise," Obama declared in a celebration at the Interior Department auditorium with members of Congress, leaders of advocacy groups and citizens whose personal stories were cited during the debate. "It is the law of the land."


LAWSUITS: 13 AGs sue over health bill
HEALTH BILL: How six groups will be affected
BUSINESS: Employers unclear on impact

To be sure, the nation remains divided about the massive legislation that narrowly passed the House late Sunday. Minutes after Obama signed the bill in the East Room, attorneys general from 13 states — led by Bill McCollum of Florida — sued to block the law as unconstitutional. Virginia filed separately.

Nearly one-third of those surveyed, 31%, say the bill makes "the wrong types of changes," and 8% say the health care system doesn't need reform.

The poll of 1,005 adults Monday has a margin of error of +/—4 percentage points.

The findings show receptive terrain as the White House launches efforts to sell the plan, including a trip by Obama to Iowa on Thursday. "The political tides shifted with passage of the bill," White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer says. "It's easy to demonize something large and complex in theory; harder when it becomes law."

No one gets overwhelmingly positive ratings on the issue, but Obama fares the best: 46% say his work has been excellent or good; 31% call it poor. For congressional Democrats, 32% call their efforts on health care excellent or good; 33% poor.

Congressional Republicans, all of whom voted against the bill, are viewed more negatively. Although 26% of those surveyed rate the GOP's effort as excellent or good, 34% say it has been poor.

Republicans vow to stall a final package of fixes to the bill now being debated in the Senate.

In the new USA TODAY survey and one taken a month ago, the biggest shift toward support of the bill was among low-income Americans, minorities and those under 40. That has created a yawning age divide: A solid majority of seniors oppose the bill; a solid majority of those younger than 40 favor it.

[Mikey]

Clear majorities of people oppose Obamacare despite the Democrats deliberate lies that it will lower costs, cover the insured, and save money.

Nice one. Most of the insured aren't all that worried about being covered. I'm pretty sure it's that other group that has a bigger stake in this.

[Sirfindafold]

Children can stay on their parent's health insurance until the age of 29

Sad. How far have we fallen.

70 years ago an 18 year old kid was preparing to storm the beaches of Normandy. Now we say its okay to live off mommy and daddy until age 26, and liberals like b-smack are pissing themselves with glee.


go fuck yourselves

[Mikey]

Sad. What a gibbering idiot you are.

[Goober McTuber]

That's not sad. That's entertainment.

[smackaholic]

the more i read about this absolute clusterfukk of a bill, the more i hate it. i can't see how anyone with enough brain activity to not be in a coma thinks otherwise. i can actually understand how someone would think single payer is the way to go, but, this clusterfukk is a joke.

of course, single payer is their goal. this is just a tool used to slay the beast (health insurance industry). of course obama is on video tape saying exactly that, but, pay no attention to that.

[BSmack]

the more i read about this absolute clusterfukk of a bill, the more i hate it. i can't see how anyone with enough brain activity to not be in a coma thinks otherwise. i can actually understand how someone would think single payer is the way to go, but, this clusterfukk is a joke.

of course, single payer is their goal. this is just a tool used to slay the beast (health insurance industry). of course obama is on video tape saying exactly that, but, pay no attention to that.

Pardon me while a shed a tear for the long suffering insurance racket. :cry:

[LTS TRN 2]

Uh, fucko, the GOP doesnt have to campaign that hard. Clear majorities of people oppose Obamacare despite the Democrats deliberate lies that it will lower costs, cover the insured, and save money. Common sense tells you this. This is why the Democrarts had to bribe other Democrats just to ram it through via an illegitimate procedure.

Bri, exactly what about this legislation do you like? How do you justify piling even more debt on top of the deficits that Obama is generating and on top of the unfunded SS and Medicare liabilities?

BTW - the GOP abandoned their opposition to Obamacare, how? It was going to pass no matter what they did.

Weasel, you and your nervous squirming ilk seem to keep ignoring that the Tea Bag rallies and "conventions" usually get a couple hundred folks at best. And most of them can't spell very well--if you know what I mean.

Uh...can you loan me six dollars?...How about five?"

[BSmack]

Pardon me while a shed a tear for the long suffering insurance racket. :cry:

Bri - you do realize this is actually a boon to the insurance companies don't you?

Longer term they may suffer due to the requirement for taking on pre-existing conditions, but shorter term they have a whole new list of potential customers

Their suffering will only be relative to the obscene profits they are making now. But yes, the long term legacy of health care reform will be to turn the private insurance companies into the medical equal of a publicly regulated utility. If we had a crocodile tear smilie I would have used it.

[Tom In VA]

Obscene profits has to be the biggest bullshit line of the 21st Century.

Risk/Reward. Providing a service.

[BSmack]

Obscene profits has to be the biggest bullshit line of the 21st Century.

Risk/Reward. Providing a service.

Risk/reward my ass. It isn't a risk/reward proposition if you can just jack the price up any time the "risk" outnumbers the "reward".

[Dinsdale]

Here's a novel concept -- get governemtn the fuck away from the insurance industry, do away with that silly "no interstate insurance sales" bullshit, and actually make the market competitive.

You know... "competition"... that things that drives prices down... kinda part of the "Economics 101" thing.

Maybe let people actually choose if they want to pay extra for a policy that covers their kids until they're 26, or maybe childless folks can opt for a cheaper policy that doesn't include this option?

You know, maybe let individuals decide what's best for them, and allow them to shop and negotiate for their purchase?


Novel concept, eh?

[Tom In VA]

Risk/reward my ass. It isn't a risk/reward proposition if you can just jack the price up any time the "risk" outnumbers the "reward".

Fundamental differences. Will there ever be a compromise ? Ultimately the end-game here is, idealogically, to take from the haves and distribute to the have-nots. But that rarely happens and when it does it simply is a mechansim of changing who the "haves" are.

On the street, that's called stealing.

[smackaholic]

the more i read about this absolute clusterfukk of a bill, the more i hate it. i can't see how anyone with enough brain activity to not be in a coma thinks otherwise. i can actually understand how someone would think single payer is the way to go, but, this clusterfukk is a joke.

of course, single payer is their goal. this is just a tool used to slay the beast (health insurance industry). of course obama is on video tape saying exactly that, but, pay no attention to that.

Pardon me while a shed a tear for the long suffering insurance racket. :cry:

just so long as the gubmint isn't fukking me directly, huh bri?

too bad you haven't the brains to realize that they are.

[mvscal]

Pardon me while a shed a tear for the long suffering insurance racket. :cry:

Bri - you do realize this is actually a boon to the insurance companies don't you?

No, he doesn't. He's an idiot. Pre-existing conditions means nothing more than just another industry that is too big to fail and in need of a taxpayer funded bailout...oh, yes and more government control.

I'd just like to know when was the last time that government intervention in anything reduced costs? Maybe some of you liberal bedwetters can help me out? I'll take your answer off the air.

[smackaholic]

if pre-existing conditions or long term chronic conditions that will require a lot of future care are the issue, why not just propose the gubmint handle that? Doing so would relieve insurance companies from these problems which would......get this.....actually allow them to lower premiums. This would allow more businesses to offer health insurance.

What a novel concept.

I would be fine with such a system if it also meant gubmint reducing the ridiculous levels of regulation that otherwise exist.

But that will never happen since it would mean the continuation of a private healthcare system. And killing it is job fukking one for these fukking crooks. they've so much as admitted it.

[Mace]

Insurance premiums go up due to the ever increasing and ridiculous cost of medical procedures and prescription meds. Reduce those costs and insurance would be far more affordable for the average Joe. I know that's an oversimplification of the healthcare problem, but what can be done to reduce those costs that drive up the premiums? Following my eye surgery, I was prescribed a variety of eyedrops and went to the Walmart pharmacy to fill it. They bring me my prescription and tell me it's $50....for a tiny 5 mL bottle of the drops. I ask them if they knew I had insurance for my prescription and they informed me that $50 was my co-pay and that, without insurance, the cost of the bottle would be $250. Next trip to my surgeon's office, he asks if I got my eyedrops and, after confirming I had, told him they were damn expensive. The doc tells me he had prescribed the drops to an old Iowa farmer who came back to the office and told him how many millions of dollars it would cost to buy a 55 gallon barrel of the drops. You have to know Iowa farmers, or farmers in general, to appreciate the humor, as any farmer entering the HHH Dome in Minneapolis immediately tries to determine how many bales of hay he could store in the building.

[BSmack]

Insurance premiums go up due to the ever increasing and ridiculous cost of medical procedures and prescription meds. Reduce those costs and insurance would be far more affordable for the average Joe. I know that's an oversimplification of the healthcare problem, but what can be done to reduce those costs that drive up the premiums? Following my eye surgery, I was prescribed a variety of eyedrops and went to the Walmart pharmacy to fill it. They bring me my prescription and tell me it's $50....for a tiny 5 mL bottle of the drops. I ask them if they knew I had insurance for my prescription and they informed me that $50 was my co-pay and that, without insurance, the cost of the bottle would be $250. Next trip to my surgeon's office, he asks if I got my eyedrops and, after confirming I had, told him they were damn expensive. The doc tells me he had prescribed the drops to an old Iowa farmer who came back to the office and told him how many millions of dollars it would cost to buy a 55 gallon barrel of the drops. You have to know Iowa farmers, or farmers in general, to appreciate the humor, as any farmer entering the HHH Dome in Minneapolis immediately tries to determine how many bales of hay he could store in the building.

Hey, I pay a 17.36 co-pay every time I go for a walk in allergy shot. That is once every 3 weeks. The solution is made up of dust, mold, pollens and the like and can't be much more than the 5ml you got. I can't wait for my wife to start her new job as I am almost positive that the co-pay will be a thing of the past once she gets in the state benefit system.

Oh, and my mother's side of the family are a farming family whose farm predates the Civil War by a couple of years. So yea, I know exactly what that old coot was thinking.

[Mace]

Do you think Marty can start shipping us our prescriptions from Canada? I mean, shit, Levitra is $20 a pill and, at my age, fucking ain't quite worth that much. Speaking as an Iowa farmer, that's about four bucks a second.

[JMak]

Aside from the lack of a single payer system, what is not to like? Just off the top of my head the following are or will be law within 4 years:

You really have not looked at the experience of single-payer systems in Britain, Canada, or France, eh? The ever more costly system in France couldn't prevent 15,000 from dying over three weeks because of a simple heat wave. Ever hear of NICE...a sick acronym to be sure in Britain. Have cancer and need expensive treatment...no. In Canada, government officials are travelling to the US for treatment and the increase in private hospitals is so large that the government must simply tolerate it. Nice examples, eh?

Bias based on preexisting conditions will become illegal
Insurance companies will not be able to purge the sick from their rolls
Yearly and lifetime coverage limits will be a thing of the past
Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020
Children can stay on their parent's health insurance until the age of 29
Those who are mandated to buy insurance will receive subsidies up to 4 times the poverty rate

What 88 said...additionally, since when are 26 year olds considered "children"? Maybe to pedophiles like you and Diego, but not to rational people.

All you have said is that putting more people on the government dole is a good thing. Why? SS and Medicare are unfunded. This piles even greater debt with doing nothing about growing costs. This does not bend the cost curve downward. In fact, costs will have to go up...why? More people demanding more care that they are not responsible for paying for.

Great idea, dunce!

Oh, and in the reconciliation package, there's a landmark rework of the student loan process that will save the taxpayers billions of dollars and provide even more money for student financial aid without additional defecit spending.

You fucking moron, it's socializing student loans. In other words, costs will only go up. The supposed savings are phony.

The CBO scored the bill as being a deficit reducer. I'm sure you have some Fox News commentator who thinks the CBO score is flawed. But I don't really care. And if Republicans have real solutions, let them propose those solutions and negotiate in good faith.

You ass, the CBO scored it as a deficit reducer because they ignored the doc fix. This bill reduces Medicare payments to doctors by 21% to reduce costs. But as we all know, the Democrats plan on restoring that cut, as Congress has done every year. But they'll do it in a separate bill, meaning the CBO didn't count it. That fix by itself, eliminated all of the supposed savings.

Additionally, this bill taxes the subsidy paid to employers to encourage them not to drop retiree Rx when Part D was created. That subsidy is about $600 per retiree. Obama is going to tax that government subsidy at the corporate incoime tax rate. Yeah, real neat idea that the CBO scored at generating $5+ billion in new revenue. Verizon has already said it will drop retirees. Meaning that these retirees will drop into Medicare at a cost of $1200 each. CBO didn't do any scoring of this likely result.

But the Democrats used no gimmicks to pay for this did they? Nope, you knowingly swallow this bullshit...

They finally stopped with the needless obstruction. If you want to get picky.

Dipshit, there was always a finite number of amendment.

[JMak]

Insurance premiums go up due to the ever increasing and ridiculous cost of medical procedures and prescription meds. Reduce those costs and insurance would be far more affordable for the average Joe. I know that's an oversimplification of the healthcare problem, but what can be done to reduce those costs that drive up the premiums? Following my eye surgery, I was prescribed a variety of eyedrops and went to the Walmart pharmacy to fill it. They bring me my prescription and tell me it's $50....for a tiny 5 mL bottle of the drops. I ask them if they knew I had insurance for my prescription and they informed me that $50 was my co-pay and that, without insurance, the cost of the bottle would be $250. Next trip to my surgeon's office, he asks if I got my eyedrops and, after confirming I had, told him they were damn expensive. The doc tells me he had prescribed the drops to an old Iowa farmer who came back to the office and told him how many millions of dollars it would cost to buy a 55 gallon barrel of the drops. You have to know Iowa farmers, or farmers in general, to appreciate the humor, as any farmer entering the HHH Dome in Minneapolis immediately tries to determine how many bales of hay he could store in the building.

Hey, I pay a 17.36 co-pay every time I go for a walk in allergy shot. That is once every 3 weeks. The solution is made up of dust, mold, pollens and the like and can't be much more than the 5ml you got. I can't wait for my wife to start her new job as I am almost positive that the co-pay will be a thing of the past once she gets in the state benefit system.

Oh, and my mother's side of the family are a farming family whose farm predates the Civil War by a couple of years. So yea, I know exactly what that old coot was thinking.

Motherfucker, what entitles you or your old lady to have taxpayers pay for your allergy shots?

In what fucking fantasyland does that make any sense...economically, politically, or morally?

[JMak]

I think we've had this discussion before - the USA pays the highest prescription drug prices in the world. Big Pharma is so deeply entrenched in Congress they actually have them believing that all R&D would come to a screeching halt if caps were imposed - like every other industrialized nation has.

Utilities are regulated - beacuse there is no alternative, and they are a necessity of life - and I don't really hear anyone bitching about that.

Why in the hell would we bitch about regulating something like medicine costs that are also a necessity?

Hey, dummy...why do you think so significant Rx R&D occurs in Europe?

Why do you think the US pays the most for Rx drugs? Answer - we are subsidizing the world's price caps. Yeah, go figure, R&D costs a lot. We're paying for the French, English, et al utilization oif prescription drugs because they've imposed artificial price caps. But you think the problem is price gouging. Fucking moron. No wonder Obama is in charge and no wonder we have this shit bill now.

[JMak]

Huh?

Huh, what, dumbshit. What? An entire year of 35% approval disappears overnight?

You're not aware od the multiple polls clearly showing clear majorities opposing Obamacare?

Clear majorities have opposed this bill since at lkeast last April, asshole. CNN, Rasmussen, Fox, Ipsos, ABC, NBC, et al. STFU and take a hike you little bitch.

[BSmack]

I wonder how many of JMak's posts you could shred and spread on my lawn?

[Mace]

I wonder how many of JMak's posts you could shred and spread on my lawn?

Would you really want to mow your lawn 3 times a week?

[JMak]

I wonder how many of JMak's posts you could shred and spread on my lawn?

Your posts are already doing a great job fertilizing my grass, asshat.

[JMak]

Detroit - you really are an imbecile.

You ignore an answer that is already given.
Go read my post again and see if your itty bitty brain can comprehend.

I personnaly don't give a flying fuck if you want to pay more for your ritalin, even though your equally spastic bretheren in europe pay a third of the cost. And If you feel so strongly about funding Big Pharma research, feel free to write them a check directly.

The only way they will ever lower prices on medicine is when their patent runs out and generics are available, or when the Government tells them they will lower it. I haven't seen Bristol Meyer or Pfizer pull out of any of these countries and I'm pretty sure they aren't going to abandon the US market either.

As for R&D - most of big pharma doesn't do it. It's funded by small start ups who go public sell shares while working on their FDA approval. As soon as they hit that's when Big Pharma buys them.

Seriously - you need to educate yourself before you clown up yet another thread

I see, you think people invent things for the fuck of it...no incentive to create a new product or otherwise, right? WTF do you think happens when government tells pharma to lower prices? Well, the answer is...look at Europe. How much Pharma R&D is performed there? How many new drugs are created there?

Dumbshit...I wasn't talking about Big Pharma, whatever that is. And that doesn't matter anyway. What matters is that when govt eliminates profit motive shit doesnt get done.

But you're one of these tards that has no problem with rent-seeking unions and corporations that made out huge in this fiasco, right? Oh, right, you had no fucking clue. Kaiser Permanente, Tufts Health...exempted from the full cost of the excise tax plans. Unions...exempted from luxury tax. But this bill is great, right? Doesn't lower costs, just masks new costs by stealing supposed savings from federalizing student loans, imposing new taxes on government subsidies to corporations, not counting the current legislation so that they could deliberately lie about deficit reduction...

Glad you guys think this at all reduces costs. Great work, morons.

[BSmack]

The first Gallup poll since the bill signing just came out. Obama's approval shot up too 50%. It will go well north of that. You people are watching the best and most influential President since FDR. Enjoy it for another 6 years and change.

[JMak]

The first Gallup poll since the bill signing just came out. Obama's approval shot up too 50%. It will go well north of that. You people are watching the best and most influential President since FDR. Enjoy it for another 6 years and change.

Yeah, right...we'll see. Majority disapproval and opposition does not disappear because the unpopular bill was finally signed. Common sense, dolt. Buy some.

BTW, shot up to 50%?? That increase was within the margin of error...liar.