Tony Dungy on Tebow

[mvscal]

Even playing for Stoneage Shottenheimer he was damn good before his injury - as in, Phillip was never going to see the field -

You really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Brees was a bust. He sucked dogshit with his puny little popgun arm for three years. His career was left for dead. That's why the team drafted Rivers. Brees was never going to be anything more than a journeyman backup.

He never had any problems with the mental aspects of the game such as preparation, reading defenses etc. He was always smart. What he lacked was an arm. What he changed was the way he delivered the ball. He finally learned to step into his throws and use his upper body to drive the ball down the field. Anybody who followed the team and his career noticed that he had significantly improved his range and velocity.

[Killian]

Typically, when someone makes a change like that there are articles talking about changing his mechanics. Care to link any up?

What you fail to understand, you ignorant twat, is that Brees had one bad year, when he got hurt. His arm had little or nothing to do with his interceptions, it was adjusting to the speed of the NFL. Almost all QB's struggle their first year or two as a full time starter. The good ones get it by their third year, just like Brees.

I guess all other QB's changed their mechanics after their first two years.

[mvscal]

He was worthless after three years, idiot. I watched all three of them. Why the fuck do you think they spent such a high pick on Rivers if all Brees had to do was "get used to the speed of the game."

Feel free to google his weak arm yourself. I don't need to. I saw three cringe worthy years of it.

[Killian]

You watched him for two years, then, dumbshit. He played one game his first year. In his third full year as a starter, once he was healthy and caught up to the speed of the game, he had a banner year and was NFL comeback player of the year.

Why did the Chargers draft Rivers? Because they're the fucking Chargers. Why did they do half the dumb shit they did.

And the "three cringe worthy years" you saw (if you include his first year where he played one game), had only one year where he threw more INT's than TD's.

As for Brees weak arm, first article from google after searching "Drew Brees scouting report":

ANALYSIS
Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move...Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center... Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.

Negatives... Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.

When you google "Drew Brees changed mechanics" you get one article from the San Diego Union that talks about Brees changing his diet and consulting with a MLB pitching coach about mechanics. No word of him changing them.

So, feel free to fuck off and eject from this thread whenever you want to stop spitting up splinters.

[Van]

Nuh-uh! <insert gratuitous insult>

-mvscal

[velocet]

He played in the OG Run and Shoot (Mouse Davis, Praise Be Unto Him, and to his U&L desciple Junebug). If a guy is halfway accurate, and can get a good grasp of checkdowns, he puts up insane numbers.

Yeah, I know of Davis and Jones from their NFL work. There were some in the aforementioned Colt wars who claimed that the Hawaii offense wasn't quite the same as the full on NFL Chuck 'N Duck. I dunno.

Is he the answer for the Skins?

Fuck if I know. Some R&S guys do well, many fail miserably... just like other "system" QBs. I guess if I knew for sure, I'd be sitting at the Combine collecting a paycheck, rather than playing Armchair Scout with the rest of you.

Hell, I can't even play scout. But what you said there says a lot about what kind of meatgrinder college football smack must be. I mean, for a guy who claims interwebs infallibility, that's a boatload of humility coming from you.

Anyway, you don't give yourself enough credit for once. I'd bet you've seen what you need to where you're good enough to categorize college QBs' prospects into three main groups:

-those you plain rule out. Homerism aside (I think it's something to do with ducks as far as you're concerned), I'm guessing there are guys who just don't even merit discussion.

-those you won't rule out. Not a cop-out; these guys have game and deserve a shot, just not enough of an argument can be made for them to say with great conviction they'll be good NFL starters. You and Killian seem to agree that Colt belongs in this group.

-the brand names. The guys even I've heard of. I've seen the biggest battles around these. A lot of times it comes down to two and a ________or_________ Question develops around them. Once upon a time it was "Shuler or Dilfer?" That was one I think a lot of people would like to forget, except those who said neither. Then there was "Manning or Leaf?"... that one has been answered in spectacular fashion. This year it's "Bradford or Clausen?" Along the lines of what Van said, yeah, even the brand names bust.

But I don't believe that one has to be able to nail down every Next Great in this category in order to know what you're talking about. You guys are probably right about the composition of the other two larger groups a great percentage of the time, but then forget about it because those don't get as much run as the brand names, which you do remember saying something about.

And since I can't get anywhere near any of that, I appreciate youse guys' input.

From everything I hear, isn't the competition boiling down to Jason Campbell vs Rex Grossman, with Colt not even having a shot?

With apologies to Stuckinia, I have to disagree with some of his assessment. If the season started next week, Grossman would have to win the starting spot versus Colt and Bartel. Grossman probably knows some of Kyle Shanahan's playbook, has experience starting in the NFL, in playoff games and a SB, so he'd have to fail bad to lose out. Right now those three have contracts. Bartel was cut from the Browns during the season last year. He was their third string guy. The Shanahans re-signed him this offseason. Colt is still under his original contract. Grossman was signed. Campbell hasn't even been offered a contract. He's been tendered the lowest possible, and remains a restricted free-agent. Any team can sign him and give the 'skins a first round pick as compensation. Of course, that is negotiable. So far, no takers.

But Stuck mentioned drafting a QB. There are hints that this may happen. But even if not, my best guess is that the Shanahans aren't going to waste their fukking time trying to work Campbell into being the starter. They've got a helluva lot of work to do rebuilding a 4-12 team, and it would be insane for them to try to get one of main reasons the team sucked last year up to speed in their system... especially a "QB" who's caught criticism for not picking up NFL systems well. Why hasn't he been released outright? Same reason the Shanny's have been blowing smoke about Campbell being worth a damn: the 'Skins have 5 picks in the draft, and hope to get something for him.

Campbell competing for the starting spot?






velocet