88 Went To Mass Today

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:08 pm

mvscal wrote:
Van wrote:Just using easy-to-understand phrasing.
In what context?

In that I knew you'd know what I meant with those banal phrases. "Ultimate Knowledge", as opposed to the basic knowledge gleaned from watching Ice Truckers on the History Channel, for instance. "Earth-bound man", which is what we are, as opposed to men who are supposedly floating ecstatically in the sky or writhing in agony Below.

Throwaway terms, yes, but you understand their meaning.

Man's ability to reason has its limits, and the issue of knowing to a certainty the answer to the question of divinity is well beyond those limits.
Nonsense. There is nothing beyond reason. There cannot be anything beyond reason. Your statement is a sophomoric cop out which applies equally to all works of fiction.

Pure arrogant bullshit. Anymore than pop cannot prove that God exists, you cannot prove that God does not exist. Simply having no proof of his existence is not proof that he doesn't exist. As we've been led to believe, if there is such a thing as God, He exists in a manner beyond our comprehension, much less our ability to scientifically measure and quantify Him.

How can our limited science disprove the spiritual realm? It can't even give college football a true national champion or the NFL a halfway decent overtime. Science hasn't yet figured out how to make an aardvark from scratch. It sure as hell has no ability to tackle questions of eternal existence.

How can you know that Zeus didn't turn himself into a white bull so he could rape Europa and then set her up as queen of Crete?

Mythological Bestiality Porn?

Dude.

How can you know that vampires and werewolves do not walk the earth?

I'm not sure that I can know such a thing, but I do at least know the form in which they supposedly take shape. Neither you nor I have any clue as to what form God would take, or even where he would exist.

How can you know that professional wrestling is fake?

Because the actual participants have admitted as such, and we have incontrovertible evidence on film.

The first trick of religion is to convince you that you can't really know anything. Everything else flows from that.

Religions attempt to convince their followers that they do know, despite the fact that they can't know. That's the first trick of atheists too.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:29 pm

Van wrote:...you cannot prove that God does not exist.

And how would one go about proving that negative? It is yet another anti-rational exercise in tail-chasing.

How can our limited science disprove the spiritual realm?

What spiritual realm? In any event, that isn't the purpose of science. The basic function of science is to observe and construct a hypothesis based on those observations. Obviously no meaningful conclusions can be drawn from something which cannot be observed or perceived in some quantifiable manner.

Mythological Bestiality Porn?

As opposed to mythological sado-masochistic cannibalism?

Religions attempt to convince their followers that they do know, despite the fact that they can't know.

No. They attempt to convince their followers to believe in something based entirely on faith not knowledge. It is the complete opposite of what you just said.

That's the first trick of atheists too.

There are no tricks to atheism. Just facts.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:31 pm

Jsc810 wrote:How do you have a universe without a Creator? How could there be a beginning?

Presumably then, your Creator would also have beginning. So...who or what created the Creator?

You're sucking your own dick in a hall of mirrors.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:35 pm

I love reading mvscal. Awesome shit dude. When God does to you what he did to Saul, watchout, you will be on FIRE.

Definitely one of my favs on the internet.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:12 pm

Jsc810 wrote:Yes, mvscal, that would be the uncaused cause.

And when you can account for the creation without a Creator, let me know, kthxbi.

When the questions you raise don't make any logical sense (and yours don't), you are probably asking the wrong questions.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:18 pm

How could there have been an egg, without a chicken ?
How could there have been a chicken, without an egg ?

This is all a byproduct of some massive chain reaction in a spontaneous event that occurred in the universe trillions of years ago.

Humans ? It is the human ego that would invent the notion that out of their microscopic insignificant, temporary, and soon to be extinguished existence in this universe that somehow THEY were singled out and made special.

-------------------------------------------------

This is all a byproduct of some massive chain reaction in a spontaneous event that occurred in the universe trillions of years ago.

Humans ? Out of the microscopic insignificant, temporary, and soon to be extinguished existence in this universe that somehow the Uncaused Cause would reveal itself to them.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:36 pm

Actually we're all just a figment of Stanley Pikkkle's imagination.

How disturbing is that?

Bucmonkey · Post by **Bucmonkey** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:03 pm

Flying spaghetti monster?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:05 pm

Tom In VA wrote:

I love reading mvscal. Awesome shit dude. When God does to you what he did to Saul, watchout, you will be on FIRE.

Saul of Tarsus wasn't an atheist. He was a Pharisee who converted. BIG difference.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:22 pm

BSmack wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:

I love reading mvscal. Awesome shit dude. When God does to you what he did to Saul, watchout, you will be on FIRE.
Saul of Tarsus wasn't an atheist. He was a Pharisee who converted. BIG difference.

This is true however I have seen such cases where die-hard atheists got knocked off their ass, on their ass, and became just as die-hard believers.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:23 pm

Tom In VA wrote:
BSmack wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:

I love reading mvscal. Awesome shit dude. When God does to you what he did to Saul, watchout, you will be on FIRE.
Saul of Tarsus wasn't an atheist. He was a Pharisee who converted. BIG difference.
This is true however I have seen such cases where die-hard atheists got knocked off their ass, on their ass, and became just as die-hard believers.

Sounds like they took a sharp blow to the head.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:54 pm

That is an astute, well thought out, and very plausible explanation Goober. Thank you.

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:56 pm

mvscal wrote:How can you know that professional wrestling is fake?

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:56 pm

Tom In VA wrote:That is an astute, well thought out, and very plausible explanation Goober. Thank you.

You're welcome, Tom.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:01 pm

Mikey wrote:Actually we're all just a figment of Stanley Pikkkle's imagination.

How disturbing is that?

Not so loud. Tyrone gets hungry after pwning Pitschkle's Parks & Rectum. He loves 'm Figment Newtons.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:26 pm

The Thumper mentality isn't so different from the Board Tard mentality, as well as SEC Fan: "If you claim it, it will come."

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:27 pm

R-Jack wrote:
mvscal wrote:How can you know that professional wrestling is fake?
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BvTNyKIGXiI&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BvTNyKIGXiI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

There was NO WAY that guy wasn't going to look and sound like every last Walmart-addicted SECBSH. No fucking way.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:10 pm

mvscal wrote:Unwittingly? Really? Are you seriously attempting to suggest that a man who was, quite likely, a rabbi of some sect or another was unfamiliar with Old Testament prophecies?

For just one thing, the extremely narrow "family line" the Christ was prophecied to come through was something Jesus had zero control over.

Do your own research into that if you wish.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:14 pm

PSUFAN wrote:Their behavior as such, or the interpretation that King James lent to their behavior?

Do you deny that the apostles willingly went, individually, to the most horrific deaths imaginable, in order to maintain that this Jesus is the Christ?

I don't know why a person would choose to deny this information, but as always, people are free to think as they wish.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:27 pm

poptart wrote:For just one thing, the extremely narrow "family line" the Christ was prophecied to come through was something Jesus had zero control over.

There is no prophecied family line for Jesus. As a matter of fact, there is no geneaology for him whatsoever. We don't even know who his father was. It sure as shit wasn't Joseph, the mild-mannered cuckold, if your fables are to be translated into any logically consistent, rational framework.

I nominate Bigus Dickus as the most likely father of Jesus Christ, Superqueen.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:31 pm

poptart wrote:Do you deny that the apostles willingly went, individually, to the most horrific deaths imaginable, in order to maintain that this Jesus is the Christ?

Do you deny that Muslim fucktards blow themselves up in crowds of innocent bystanders on the promise of 72 virgins to attend their every whim in an eternal paradise?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:37 pm

That myth has been exposed. They're actually Mossad and former Mossad agents who have been given a choice.

1. Suicide bombing.
2. The tapes of their homo erotic "hazing" ceremony will be released.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:40 pm

poptart wrote:
PSUFAN wrote:Their behavior as such, or the interpretation that King James lent to their behavior?
Do you deny that the apostles willingly went, individually, to the most horrific deaths imaginable, in order to maintain that this Jesus is the Christ?

I don't know why a person would choose to deny this information, but as always, people are free to think as they wish.

Religious zealots from the Middle East willing to die "horrific deaths" for their beliefs? Yeah, I suppose that could happen.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:43 pm

It's not the same thing, fellas.

Those muslims exploding themselves are doing so because they believe something.

Those 12 apostles, if Jesus was a fraud, willingly went to those deaths KNOWING that they were doing so for a FRAUD.

Sure, we might find ONE douchebag who would do that ... but twelve, each on an individual basis???

Nope.

They knew that Jesus is the Christ.

But again, see it as you will.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:49 pm

Tom In VA wrote:I have seen such cases where die-hard atheists got knocked off their ass, on their ass, and became just as die-hard believers.

I would suggest that such people weren't atheists and aren't Christians. They are fundamentalists. Their core philosophies or belief systems are much less important than whether or not they are passionately espoused. Such people are driven by emotional whims rather than cool logic or serene faith.

They are unpredictable and, in numbers, dangerous. For obvious reasons they should be exterminated for the good of the species.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:50 pm

poptart wrote:Those muslims exploding themselves are doing so because they believe something.

Good job kicking your own ass.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:58 pm

Van wrote:He's going to need to pay me a personal visit and prove to me that he exists.

Van, you're demanding the proverbial burning bush, as have I. It doesn't work that way.

Why should God reveal himself to a petulant child? Why should you be given the gift of faith when you obviously wouldn't know the first thing to with it? Having faith is one thing, using that faith is another. Faith without works is dead. You weren't ready for the gift of faith. You may never be.

I saw where you said you had earnestly sought and prayed for faith. I'll take you at your word that's what you tried to do. It didn't work, you said fuck it.

Myself, it came from humbly seeking that faith with an open heart and mind. About 25 years ago, reading in the gospel of Matthew, was when I had that 'aha!' moment. That moment when an open heart and mind is able to receive the flood of faith God poured out... and come to the irrevocable realization that what you just read was the truth.

Sure, I can hear you snickering and getting ready to pound your keyboard saying that my testimony isn't proof. That's ok, I'm not trying to prove anything to you. Believe or don't believe what you want.

May you someday find what you're looking for but be careful what you ask for. Faith can be a burden as well as a blessing.

BarFlie · Post by **BarFlie** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:15 am

'God is a concept by which we measure our pain' - John Lennon

key word 'concept'

nice one 88

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:32 am

War Wagon wrote: Why should God reveal himself to a petulant child? Why should you be given the gift of faith when you obviously wouldn't know the first thing to with it? Having faith is one thing, using that faith is another. Faith without works is dead. You weren't ready for the gift of faith. You may never be.

One of those petulant kids here.

Like 88, I don't have a problem with others finding solace in their relationship with God. I also sort of envy them a bit. "Knowing" that the whole fairy tale is da truf certainly has it's benefits in allowing one to keep their mental health in what can be at times, a pretty shitty existence. Doesn't matter if it's a load of shit, because as shrub says, the worst thing that can happen is your dead and just maggot chow like everybody else.

And yes, I really do wish He'd do something cool. Maybe show at the SB half time show. Drop a lightning bolt or two on some deserving shitstain. Actually, to be honest, he wouldn't have to do anything really wonderful. I'd be perfectly happy with him just not being such an uncaring rotten cocksucker and maybe put a damper on really bad shit. You're all powerful and shit and loving and caring? How's about you ease up on the cancer thing? Or maybe strike dead every POS bloodsucking politician out there? That'd be a nice start.

Till then, I will remain a hopeful but VERY fukking doubtful agnostic.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:36 am

KC Scott wrote: Then He started talking about the Raiders

Nice.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:46 am

mvscal wrote: I would suggest that such people weren't atheists and aren't Christians. They are fundamentalists. Their core philosophies or belief systems are much less important than whether or not they are passionately espoused. Such people are driven by emotional whims rather than cool logic or serene faith.

They are unpredictable and, in numbers, dangerous. For obvious reasons they should be exterminated for the good of the species.

You're a great read but you have been known to lack in certain skills, prognostication being one of them.

I believe you feel that way though.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:49 am

smackaholic wrote: And yes, I really do wish He'd do something cool.

You woke up this morning, what more do you want?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:09 am

88 wrote: Personally, I'd go for some old fashioned proof, like he apparently used to dish out with some regularity. You know, like turning people into pillars of salt. Helping dudes part seas. Destroying immoral cities with hellfire and brimstone or whatever the fuck it was. Maybe having someone talk a long walk on a great lake. Turning water into wine. Calling out and then delivering specific plagues. Maybe allowing some dudes to live 900 years. Killing the first born of every family on the same night unless they smeared lamb's blood over their door. Flooding the entire Earth except for a large boat containing exactly two mating pairs of every species. Having angels converse freely with wise men. Cause it to rain manna or marshmallows or anything edible. Letting a dude feed an entire outdoor concert crowd with a few fishes. You know, that kind of old school shit. That would be enough for me. Well that, and a major sports championship for Cleveland in my lifetime.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:14 am

Turning water into wine

Dudes, that would be most welcome.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:21 am

88 wrote:Personally, I'd go for some old fashioned proof, like he apparently used to dish out with some regularity. You know, like turning people into pillars of salt. Helping dudes part seas. Destroying immoral cities with hellfire and brimstone or whatever the fuck it was. Maybe having someone talk a long walk on a great lake. Turning water into wine. Calling out and then delivering specific plagues. Maybe allowing some dudes to live 900 years. Killing the first born of every family on the same night unless they smeared lamb's blood over their door. Flooding the entire Earth except for a large boat containing exactly two mating pairs of every species. Having angels converse freely with wise men. Cause it to rain manna or marshmallows or anything edible. Letting a dude feed an entire outdoor concert crowd with a few fishes. You know, that kind of old school shit.

Pretty epic shit that would be, indeed. Funny how all the cool stuff went down during a time in which none of it could be recorded. Now who have we got running the show? Kid diddlers, greedy frauds, and bullshit artists. Nice trade off.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:22 am

88 wrote:I'd go for some old fashioned proof...

The proof is all around you, everyday.

You won't find it in the Bible unless you study the gospels and most of the New Testament. If you're going off the Old Testament... that's mostly a parable written for children. One must separate the wheat from the chaff.

trev · Post by **trev** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:10 am

I don't see the point in making fun of or criticizing religion. Let's smack someone for their own individuals acts, not their religion.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:15 am

War Wagon wrote:
Van wrote:He's going to need to pay me a personal visit and prove to me that he exists.
Van, you're demanding the proverbial burning bush, as have I. It doesn't work that way.

Then it doesn't work. If God can't be even the least bit flexible, fuck him, I don't want him managing me.

Why should God reveal himself to a petulant child?

Because the petulant child is supposedly His petulant child. Parents aren't supposed to hide themselves from their children.

Why should you be given the gift of faith when you obviously wouldn't know the first thing to with it?

If you're going to try and stick your nose in this, Wags, at least try to pay attention...

Van wrote:
Tom wrote:If He answered that and instilled in you a burning, zealous Faith for Him - not unlike what you have in GG with respect to guitar - would you "testify"?
Yes. I'd be one ecstatic dude, and I'd eagerly do His bidding.

See, Wags, if God would get off his prima donna ass and give me faith, I'd know exactly what to do with it, and I'd be very happy to do it.

Having faith is one thing, using that faith is another. Faith without works is dead. You weren't ready for the gift of faith. You may never be.

You haven't a clue, and you're in no position to be passing judgment on who is and isn't ready for anything, so fuck off.

I saw where you said you had earnestly sought and prayed for faith. I'll take you at your word that's what you tried to do. It didn't work, you said fuck it.

Why should I have to work at it so hard when others receive it without even trying? If God gave a wet fuck, he'd do something. He wouldn't just keep passing off his silly, man-made brochure as the only reason I ought to believe.

Myself, it came from humbly seeking that faith with an open heart and mind.

Fuck off. What a load of sanctimonious fuck. You didn't 'humbly seek' anything, and you weren't 'rewarded' because of your humility. You simply chose to tell people that you Believe!

Christ, dude, shove that self-serving nonsense up Chase Daniels's weathered cheerio.

About 25 years ago, reading in the gospel of Matthew, was when I had that 'aha!' moment. That moment when an open heart and mind is able to receive the flood of faith God poured out... and come to the irrevocable realization that what you just read was the truth.

Uh-huh. Well, I read the exact same thing, and it didn't do squat for me. It didn't do squat for millions of others either. I guess you earned it though, and everyone else just failed.

What's next? You're one of the chosen 144,000?

Sure, I can hear you snickering and getting ready to pound your keyboard saying that my testimony isn't proof. That's ok, I'm not trying to prove anything to you. Believe or don't believe what you want.

Then why did you bother?

You bothered because you wanted to suck your own dick, that's why.

May you someday find what you're looking for but be careful what you ask for. Faith can be a burden as well as a blessing.

Spoken like a true bullshitter.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:17 am

God = bitch

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:25 am

See, Wags, if God would get off his prima donna ass and give me faith, I'd know exactly what to do with it, and I'd be very happy to do it.

You don't know that, now do you?

That's a preposterous and presumptious suggestion.

But just for the sake of God loves you and so do I....

what would you DO with faith, Van?