Anyone Feel Sorry For Sandra Bullock?

[LTS TRN 2]

Take a look at what we've done--in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

We killed shitloads of commies and Islamist fundies. What's the problem?
--Adolph Hitler

As a seething closet Nazi yerself, Avi, I'm sure you think it just fine...and successful?

But then it didn't really work for Hitler and Hirohito...did it?

[Van]

You're desperately hanging on to some issue of whether America acts exactly like the Germans in the 1930's and 40's.

That's the insane comparison you made, and always make. Quit making it, and I'll quit refuting it.

That's not the point at all.

So quit making it.

I'm not suggesting we're Nazis or Warriors of the Sun Emperor.

You're merely saying that we behave like them, which is patently absurd.

We are the same in that we are also a marauding super power who is given to ghastly and heinous illegal invasions of other nations.

Really? Why are Canada and Mexico still sovereign nations then? Why are we dicking around with Iran and otherwise pussyfooting all over the Middle East? We tread lightly in ways no other conquering force ever did.

Japan or Nazi Germany sure wouldn't have dicked around the way we have. Given our advantages, it would've been the Rape of Nanking or the demolition of Poland...all over the globe.

We've done nothing of the sort. Hell, we even went out of our way to rebuild Japan and Germany. Who else does that?

And we're the ONLY one left doing so.

All the more reason your argument falls completely flat. We're free to do whatever want, practically anywhere on the globe, yet we tread lightly everywhere, even when we engage our enemies in battle. We don't obliterate them, and we easily could.

Your analogies are simply ridiculous.

We're the only superpower who is actually acting like those two--as well as the Soviet Union for a period.

And here you are again, still trying to make the very point you just said you're not trying to make.

You are saying we're like them, and you're an imbecile for even trying to draw such a comparison.

Take a look at what we've done--in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Then compare it to what Germany did to Poland and Ukraine.

You're an idiot.

[LTS TRN 2]

You're all confused, Van.

I never suggested that we're identical to the Germans or Japanese in features or specific military plans. No, those were specific to those situations.

The SIMILARITIES are what you're having a tough time facing up to.

First, we have extended hegemony over the entire Western hemisphere by controlling governments--through coups, assassinations, and massive death-squad campaigns (often funded by U.S. officials secretly selling weapons and drugs). Germany didn't seek to attack and raze every nation--you're exaggerating. We don't need to attack Canada or Mexico. And believe it or not, we can't attack Iran. We're not the Germans. We can barely sustain a bungled invasion of Afghanistan--and they don't even have an army!

Further, we have gone far beyond the Nazis and Japanese in that we've initiated the "neo-liberal" economic agenda upon the poorer nations of the world, effectively strapping them in perpetual debt--and gaining outright control of their resources.

Moreover, what are you pretending to ignore about Vietnam, for starters? That a ten-year war against a distant nation who never attacked anyone was somehow less aggressive--or less illegal than Germany invading France? How about the utterly illegal (even within the flimsy--totally fake--construct of the Tonkin Bay rationale) attack of Cambodia--which led directly to the rise of the Khmer Rouge?

The fact is, America murdered well over a million Vietnamese, and around 300,000 Cambodians. Almost all civilians, just "collateral damage"--like the good folks in Afghanistan, etc.

As for the catastrophic invasion of Iraq, what part of this are you suggesting is "treading lightly"? Of course the damage we've we done to Iraq is very similar to the razing of Warsaw. The complete destruction of Fallujah is similarly identical.

What part of this aren't you getting?

Remember also that the Germans worked very hard to hide their crimes and to rationalize them to the folks back home. Just like us, Van, just like us.

The point is not whether we resemble Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan in our philosophy or grand plans. Rather, the point is that we are now the only marauding super power marching into foreign lands on bullshit premises and dropping thousands of tons of bombs all on them. There is no disputing it, it's a plain fact. All you've got is some weasally quibbling on..style?

Wake it up...wake it up!

[mvscal]

But then it didn't really work for Hitler and Hirohito...did it?

It worked out fine for us. Our problems are entirely self-inflicted.

[War Wagon]

is there not a rev limiter on Nicks' tinfoil beanie? That fucker is churning at 12,000 rpm. It makes an annoying, droning sound.

[R-Jack]

Goddammit Nick. You start a thread with Sandra Bullock in a swimsuit and you still find a way to fuck it all up.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Goddammit Nick. You start a thread with Sandra Bullock in a swimsuit and you still find a way to fuck it all up.

It's Felchco's "Gay Bait 'N Switch"...



DAMN YOU, FELCHCO! DAAAAAMN YOUUUUU!!!!!

[Van]

You're all confused, Van.

I never suggested that we're identical to the Germans or Japanese in features or specific military plans. No, those were specific to those situations.

The SIMILARITIES are what you're having a tough time facing up to.

That's because they're not the least bit similar. We do not engage in total war. We haven't since 1945. If we ever did, there would be no war.

First, we have extended hegemony over the entire Western hemisphere by controlling governments--through coups, assassinations, and massive death-squad campaigns (often funded by U.S. officials secretly selling weapons and drugs).

Yeah, that's tantamount to what the Japanese did in China and Germany did to Poland.

Millions of starved prisoners, millions upon millions of civilians killed, death camps, systematic slaughter, genocide, crematoriums...attacking our peaceful neighbors...

...yep, Nick, spot on comparison you're making here.

Germany didn't seek to attack and raze every nation--you're exaggerating.

Besides neutral Switzerland, which was hardly neutral, they attacked every neighbor they had who didn't kneel in fealty to them.

To the west...France, Belgium, Holland and Denmark. To the east, Poland and the Czechs. Their Austian neighbors were treated as doormats. Italy was invaded. The Baltics and Balkans...pfffft. Even their signatory allies, the Soviets, were brutally attacked.

They attacked everwhere their panzers could reach.

The U.S.? Please. Hitler would've made the whole Western Hemisphere Fortress America, from pole to pole. If Hitler had the ability to annihilate his enemies with the push of a few buttons, there would be no London, Moscow or St. Petersburg. He may have spared London, simply out of his reluctant admiration for the British, but he would've vaporized all of Eastern Europe - or at least those places which didn't cave in to him.

Eventually he would've turned his eye towards America too.

We don't need to attack Canada or Mexico.

Hitler had no need to attack the Low Countries, Poland or France. There was no provocation. He did it because he could. We have that same ability, only much more so, yet we don't do it.

And believe it or not, we can't attack Iran.

The fuck we can't. We choose not to, but if we were of a mind to we could destroy their entire country without the loss of a single American soldier. Even without using nukes we could topple their regime by the All Star break. Iran would be helpless to defend themselves against total war committed against them by the U.S.

No nation has ever had to deal with the modern U.S. military committing to total war.

We're not the Germans. We can barely sustain a bungled invasion of Afghanistan--and they don't even have an army!

We're doing whatever we want in Afghanistan. The problem is that we've had muddled plans, and we've tried to be delicate about it. If we decided to conquer Afghanistan in total, including the border region with Pakistan, we'd have it done within a month. That's simply not our goal. We're trying to excise a scurrying enemy while disturbing the locals as little as possible.

I'd hope you're at least bright enough to understand what you're seeing there. There's what is happening, then there's what would be happening if we were to approach any of these little conflicts the way Hitler would've approached them.

As always, your comparisons are childish handwringing with no basis in reality.

Further, we have gone far beyond the Nazis and Japanese in that we've initiated the "neo-liberal" economic agenda upon the poorer nations of the world, effectively strapping them in perpetual debt--and gaining outright control of their resources.

Lunacy. Hitler gained outright resources of the nations he conquered. He plain took the Romanian oil fields. He didn't compensate anybody for anything. He didn't conduct business, he simply stole. We do nothing of the sort. We could easily take all the oil in the Middle East, at gunpoint. The Chinese and Russians would be the only countries that could even say boo. We could take every drop of Mexican and Venezuelan oil, and there would be nothing anyone could do about it.

If Bush or Obama were Hitler, this would all be moot.

Moreover, what are you pretending to ignore about Vietnam, for starters?

What's there to ignore? Our measured efforts there bear no resemblance to anything perpetrated by the Germans in any of the countries they attacked.

That a ten-year war against a distant nation who never attacked anyone was somehow less aggressive--or less illegal than Germany invading France? How about the utterly illegal (even within the flimsy--totally fake--construct of the Tonkin Bay rationale) attack of Cambodia--which led directly to the rise of the Khmer Rouge?

What about them? Do you think Hitler's troops would've bothered trying to differentiate between the locals and Charlie? Do you think the Japanese Imperial Army would've given a fuck about civilians being used as human shields?

To the contrary, they would've engaged in systematic rape, bespoiling the local populace with Japanese offspring; that is, assuming they didn't already kill them.

The fact is, America murdered well over a million Vietnamese, and around 300,000 Cambodians. Almost all civilians, just "collateral damage"--like the good folks in Afghanistan, etc.

The fact is, Hitler would've done a thousand times worse, in a much more brutal manner.

As for the catastrophic invasion of Iraq, what part of this are you suggesting is "treading lightly"?

The part where we're engaging in 'polite war.' We're trying to avoid killing civilians. We're trying to surgically remove the bad elements while appeasing the 'friendly' elements.

What we're not doing is treating Baghdad, Kabul, Kandahar and Peshawar the way we treated Dresden....much less Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Tikrit was not deloused the way Iwo was, where we went in and literally killed nearly every single person who wasn't wearing our colors.

We could, but we don't.

Of course the damage we've we done to Iraq is very similar to the razing of Warsaw. The complete destruction of Fallujah is similarly identical.

Of course you're a fucking moron. There is nothing going on in Iraq that even approaches the comprehensive, systematic evil of what went on in Poland, and all across Europe.

What part of this aren't you getting?

The part where you begin to apply even a smidgen of common sense and/or a nod to reality.

Remember also that the Germans worked very hard to hide their crimes and to rationalize them to the folks back home. Just like us, Van, just like us.

Right, Nick. When all is said and done, we'll be watching PBS documentaries about six million Shiites we starved and roasted in ovens, after performing torturous experiments on them in the name of science. U.S. soliders have been engaging in widespread rape, torture, beheadings of civilians and all other manner of barbarism; yet, somehow, in the age of instant media access and the internet, we've been doing all those things and somehow getting away with them....because we're just that evil.

You're fucking insane.

The point is not whether we resemble Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan in our philosophy or grand plans.

Or in any other conceivable way, yet you keep making that point.

Rather, the point is that we are now the only marauding super power marching into foreign lands on bullshit premises and dropping thousands of tons of bombs all on them. There is no disputing it, it's a plain fact. All you've got is some weasally quibbling on..style?

Scale, practice and intent, not style.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Let me just hetero this thread back up...



Done.

[LTS TRN 2]

Great, b-juice, I can just about sniff her tangy muff!


Okay, Van, if I was a therapist I'd say we'd made a "break through."

You seem to be under the impression that unless it's a straight up Himmler move, nothing can compare to the Germans, and unless the bayoneted heads are piled up this high, like Nanking, no attack can be compared to the Japanese, etc. And you seem to have this amazing Rusp Limpdick-like belief in the military might of America.

All of this is patently bullshit.

Why do you suppose we have this ability to wage "total war"? What army are you referring to? Surely not the current disgruntled, stressed out, stop-gapped, suicidal (and homicidal) volunteer affair that just can't get it together in securing anything in Iraq or Afghanistan? Or what? Or are you one who somehow insists the "surge" worked?

Or are you counting on the competence and honor of paid mercenaries like Black Water?

Are you suggesting that the drafted bunch of disgruntled, drugged out low income grunts sent to Vietnam were in any way whatsoever prepared to wage total war--let alone win a war against civilians--let alone gain even a draw? And make no mistake, the military/corporate complex wanted to win in Vietnam. They wanted it very badly--and it wasn't even close. And there were no other options at all. Wake up.

Your only trump card, we see, is to insist that America could just...nuke 'em? That's our ultimate power? Well that's a ridiculous fantasy.

You suggest we could easily "defeat" Afghanistan? What does that even mean? Sending in more troops to wander around in giant armored suits? Drop more bombs on wedding parties? Do you have the foggiest notion of what is actually going on there?

Same with Iraq. What do you suppose we could possibly do now that we're not already doing?

As for Iran, what planet are you on?

Where you are correct is that your impossibly puffed up conception of American military might is shared by the disgraced frauds like Rumsfeld and McCrystal, et al, who are blindly committed to the very Nazi-like policy of invasion and control of distant lands through massive aggression and brutality.

Like the Nazis, they are completely wrong--as reflected in the current utter failures in Iraq and Afghanistan (as well as the monstrous crime--and total failure--of Vietnam) .

Now try answering this simple question: Who else is marauding about the globe invading distant lands with the Hitler-style of overwhelming aggression based on superior technology, etc? Anyone else? No? Well..... :wink:

[Rich Fader]

Actually, I do. Not only was Jesse fucking around on her, but Hedwig errrrr LT2 wants to put his angry inch in her.

[LTS TRN 2]

Anyone feel sorry for the stockholders of of Bell Helicopter? Well, don't because the latest fuck-up with this wildly overpriced boondoggle piece of shit (already thirty or so dead in testing alone) will only necessitate more of them. And they do have an obligation to maximize profits, right? And...that's winning...right? :wink:

First Osprey crash. The Associated Press reports that a U.S. Air Force Osprey plane crashed in southeastern Afghanistan today, the first ever Osprey crash in a combat zone. The Osprey is the military's newest transport aircraft, flying like a regular plane but landing and taking off like a helicopter. Three U.S. service members and one civilian contractor died in the crash.
While the Taliban claimed responsibility for the crash, saying that insurgents shot down the plane, NATO is still investigating the cause.

[smackaholic]

Anyone feel sorry for the stockholders of of Bell Helicopter? Well, don't because the latest fuck-up with this wildly overpriced boondoggle piece of shit (already thirty or so dead in testing alone) will only necessitate more of them. And they do have an obligation to maximize profits, right? And...that's winning...right? :wink:

First Osprey crash. The Associated Press reports that a U.S. Air Force Osprey plane crashed in southeastern Afghanistan today, the first ever Osprey crash in a combat zone. The Osprey is the military's newest transport aircraft, flying like a regular plane but landing and taking off like a helicopter. Three U.S. service members and one civilian contractor died in the crash.
While the Taliban claimed responsibility for the crash, saying that insurgents shot down the plane, NATO is still investigating the cause.

today a plane crashed somewhere. a very complicated difficult to fly plane operating in a mountainous shithole. i guess this means the US wermacht is getting run.

oh noes!!!!

[smackaholic]

sandy even looks hot whilst picking beach sand out of her arse. well, she does to those of us with any testosterone flowing through our veins.

so, who else can be add to the let's turd "meh" list besides sandra and elin?

how 'bout salma hayek?

[PSUFAN]

How did Sandra Bullocks end up marrying a trailer-trash nazi? Not much to feel sorry about there.

[LTS TRN 2]

today a plane crashed somewhere. a very complicated difficult to fly plane operating in a mountainous shithole. i guess this means the US wermacht is getting run.

oh noes!!!!

No...smackie, that's the nervous Rusp Limpdick interpretation.

In fact, the osperey is a completely unnecessary boondoggle. Basically it's slow and cumbersome--and apparently easily shot down by peasants with standard weapons. And it was pushed into its extremely expensive production because idiot war hawks considered it necessary for just this sort of warfare--you know, flying around some distant rough land with no clue who or what the enemy is--shooting anything that moves, etc.

Perhaps some folks have forgotten that the Taliban has no structure or doctrine, no government or actual organization at all. Rather, it's an ideology of fundamentalist Islam. So...how do you shoot or bomb an ideology? In fact, our blundering murderous insanity only hardens and intensifies--and spreads--the particular strain of Abrahamic contagion.

But...do you feel sorry for Bell Helicopter?

[smackaholic]

believe it or not turd, i actually agree with your take on the osprey. it is expensive and not particularly good at anything. C130s can land in some pretty fukked up places and helos can handle the rest.

[mvscal]

Basically it's slow and cumbersome--

It is more than twice as fast as Chinook and has double the range, idiot.

and apparently easily shot down by peasants with standard weapons

.

first ever Osprey crash in a combat zone

Maybe not so easy. They've been in combat for three years now. You are, as usual, totally clueless.

[smackaholic]

it is fast and has range, but not sure if it's worth the $$$$$$$. maybe there are some spec ops where it's worth the price tag. the range factor can be overcome with CH-53s that have inflight refueling capability. they are also reasonably quick. not as quick as an osprey though.

[LTS TRN 2]

Well of course it's faster than a helicopter--it's a fuckin' airplane...with a gender confusion issue. But, if we're gonna set down a bunch of robocops just so on a moonscape in the middle of nowhere--and our national security is at stake...well buy Bell! (and when like the fake baby doing research have a look at the most gluttonous corporate meltdown of the last three years--Textron wallowing from $72 to $1 in a year, but needing the Bell fat osperey contracts...) TXT :D

[missjo]

How did Sandra Bullocks end up marrying a trailer-trash nazi? Not much to feel sorry about there.

Apparently he's Hung like a Donkey so she was Dickamatized!

Personally I think he needs a good kick in the dick!