California Clones

[poptart]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la- ... 7734.story


The state of California's real unfunded pension debt clocks in at more than $500 billion, nearly eight times greater than officially reported.

That's the finding from a study released Monday by Stanford University's public policy program, confirming a recent report with similar, stunning findings from Northwestern University and the University of Chicago.

To put that number in perspective, it's almost seven times greater than all the outstanding voter-approved state general obligation bonds in California.

Why should Californians care? Because this year's unfunded pension liability is next year's budget cut to important programs. For a glimpse of California's budgetary future, look no further than the $5.5 billion diverted this year from higher education, transit, parks and other programs in order to pay just a tiny bit toward current unfunded pension and healthcare promises. That figure is set to triple within 10 years and -- absent reform -- to continue to grow, crowding out funding for many programs vital to the overwhelming majority of Californians.



Give me your predictions on where you see this going.

How is this possibly going to be worked through - or can it be worked through?

[Mikey]

Probably an exaggeration but still a big problem.

I say we make sure that most state employees don't make it to retirement.

[mvscal]

We should encourage smoking, sedentary lifestyles and fatty foods in they early middle age demographic and extreme risk taking behavior in younger demographics. We can just smother the old fucks with pillows.

Problem solved.

[Wolfman]

Why don't they just tax all those rich people, corporations, and insurance companies ? While your at it, add more tax to smokes, booze, and gasoline. Oh, and add a 10% state tax on tanning salons That would surely raise enough revenue to pay the bills.

[smackaholic]

sooner or later cali and a bunch of other states, mine included are gonna just have to just default on these pension. Give them pennies on the dollar, you know, like we in the real world get to do when our investment plans don't work out as we'd hoped.

there is no alternative. unlike uncle sam, the states can't just tel the folks at treasury to run the 100 dollar bill presses a little faster.

sucks to be them, i guess.

[OCmike]

Wolfman, this is CA. Our tanning salon is this spiffy place we call "outside".

[trev]

God bless California.

This just angers me.

I suppose they will just have to wait until the money runs out to do anything.

[poptart]

Then what?

[Goober McTuber]

Ask the rest of us to bail you stupid fucks out.

[trev]

Then what?

You tell me.

[PSUFAN]

Friends, it seems to me that every pension fund in our fair land is FUCKED beyond hope, as things stand. For years and years, they ALL were underfunded, and now the bill is starting to come due.

In the state of PA, every municipality, educational org., county, and the state has a pension fund deficit. The City of Pittsburgh is among the worst in the whole nation. The fund obligation is around 1 billion smackers. We (I'm an employee) have a third of it funded currently. If we don't get half of it funded before the end of the year, the state takes it over, and the city will face staggering payments that will cause big layoffs and service reductions. Those will probably come in Public Safety and Public Works...neither of which can really stand any further whittling of their resources. There's no other word for it - it's a crisis - but it's not atypical, in PA or in every other state.

Our current mayor has been, to his credit, very focused on this problem. He's got to come up with some 250 million bones in very short order. His plan is to lease the Parking Authority ala Chicago, which would get him about 200 of that. He's facing a really tough road with that plan...it has to be approved by Council and the Controller's Office, of course - and many folks are more than happy to see him fail in this, which I think is lunacy.

[poptart]

Then what?

You tell me.

There are a few different scenarios for how it could play out, trev, but they all lead to the same bottom line for Californians.
And this is a lower standard of living.

I see no way around it.

And as PSU noted, with his Pittsburgh input (and Wagon with his KC school district meltdown a couple weeks ago), these financial problems are manifest all over the country.

The whole thing is a house of cards that was propped up by our country taking on a massive amount of new debt when the "finacial crisis" hit in '08 and any number of cards could fall which could lead to a chain reaction to take the whole thing way down.

These "weak cards" are all over the place and we're in worse financial shape as a country than we were in '08.
The real crisis has not hit yet.

If your own household was facing a financial crisis, you would need to produce (earn) more, spend a lot less, save, and eventually get yourself back afloat, right?

The LAST thing you could think would work would be to take out a huge new credit card to get yourself out of your problem ... and then go on SPENDING A LOT MORE. wtf??

But we know that our gov did.

It is a failed policy, assuredly so.

88 posted about a possible Black Swan event hitting the country, and I could see it happening.

There are just WAY too many weak links to feel good right now.

The "economic recovery" is B.S.


Get yourself over to Korea before you're doomed. :wink:

[smackaholic]

God bless California.

This just angers me.

I suppose they will just have to wait until the money runs out to do anything.

Guess what trev.

The money RAN out. A while ago, actually.

They've simply been borrowing for quite a while.

A more correct statement would have been...

I suppose they will just have to wait until no one will loan them a thin dime anymore to do anything.

I see only one solution here. End gubmint pension systems as they exist today. Any system that makes a promise to pay a certain amount in the future will and has been abused. Replace them with what the private sector has already done, 401Ks. If you still want some sort of defined benefit, set up some sort of annuity deal in the private sector that doesn't put the risk on the backs of future tax payers.

The problem with this solution is it is already too late. Even if we started it yesterday, the existing pension obligations can't be met. Somebody is gonna have to tell the gubmint employee unions "you fukked up. you trusted us".

[R-Jack]

We could just hire folks from Enron to work for the state. They seem to take stuff like this in stride and stuff.

[OCmike]

Other than imploding the pensions, the most glaringly needed change is axing thousands of gov't jobs. It hasn't been done yet because no one wants it to happen on their watch. And it needs to include a shitload of administrators and management.

[poptart]

California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger proposes deep budget cuts


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05536.html

[The Seer]

How can you morons doubt the talent of our local politicians? They got us into this mess, so they'll get us out....and for all you dumb asses that couldn't see it....the answer is simple.....


boycott Arizona.



Problem solved.

[trev]

Anyone know how much money is spent on free school lunches/breakfasts? Our high school district is proposing a 10% pay cut for teachers in order to help the budget crisis.

I've seen so much waste in food at schools, kids throwing lots away. Does our country really need free lunches? I mean in some districts it might be needed, but really how costly/hard is it to make your kid a sandwich and an apple? And how much of that money spent for free lunches be spent for better use? Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal. Is it really asking too much to feed your own kids?

[poptart]

Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal.

Yes, it's the wrong choice, for sure.

Without doing any investigation into the budget in your district, trev, I feel safe saying they could EASILY slice 10% of pure waste off in some other area(s).

[trev]

One good thing Arnold is not proposing is more cuts to higher education. That is good for my family right now.

[mvscal]

Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal.

Yes, it's the wrong choice, for sure.

Not really. California has the highest paid teachers in the country. Of course they wouldn't miss a beat if they were to whack about 30% of the administrators, but that's just crazy talk, I know.

[poptart]

Mvscal, Cali teachers may be the highest paid in the country, but cost of living in Cali is damn high.

whack about 30% of the administrators

There ya go.

[R-Jack]

Mvscal, Cali teachers may be the highest paid in the country, but cost of living in Cali is damn high.

[Van]

R-Jack, I was thinking the exact same thing.

What an awesome shot of Ewing, too. Is that a perfect facial expression or what?

[Moving Sale]

Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal.

Is it really too much to ask that you educate your own damn kids? Why do you love Socialism so much?

[trev]

Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal.

Is it really too much to ask that you educate your own damn kids? Why do you love Socialism so much?

I pay property taxes for my child's education. It's too bad I can't use that money for my own school choice instead, isn't it?

[Diego in Seattle]

Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal.

Is it really too much to ask that you educate your own damn kids? Why do you love Socialism so much?

I pay property taxes for my child's education. It's too bad I can't use that money for my own school choice instead, isn't it?

No.

[BSmack]

Other than imploding the pensions, the most glaringly needed change is axing thousands of gov't jobs. It hasn't been done yet because no one wants it to happen on their watch. And it needs to include a shitload of administrators and management.

Good luck with that pipe dream.

[Moving Sale]

It's too bad I can't use that money for my own school choice instead, isn't it?

If you are saying we should ban funding for public schools above the county level then you are preaching to the choir. If you are looking for a voucher then you are barking up the wrong stupid tree.

[Mikey]

One good thing Arnold is not proposing is more cuts to higher education. That is good for my family right now.

The cuts they've already made are going to ruin the state college an university system within the next few years.

[H4ever]

California (and the rest of the states, for that matter) could solve current and impending budget and pension crisis by doing one simple thing:

Confiscate and liquidate all assets of illegal aliens caught in the country. Property, 401k's, bank accounts, stocks, investments, furniture, all clothing other than one set to get home in, the groceries in the cupboards, etc....all their shit obtained through illegal employment in this country. Fuck 'em. They commit a crime with each successive step they take on American soil.

Sure...let them go through immigration courts. That would be the right thing to do. Found here illegally? You lose everything.

Bonus: Illegal immigration goes down by at least 50% when they know we ain't fucking around anymore. School districts, hospitals, welfare, and the countless other angencies they illegally obtain goods and services through save at least that much too.

Who get's hurt? The kids born here? Send them back with the parents with dual citizenship. If they want to come back as an adult. Cool. At least they are legally.

The most hand-wringing and moans will come not from liberals, but from the greedy corporations who lose their source of cheap labor. Boo hoo.

[mvscal]

Confiscate and liquidate all assets of illegal aliens caught in the country.

...and those who knowingly employ them.

[Mace]

Anyone know how much money is spent on free school lunches/breakfasts? Our high school district is proposing a 10% pay cut for teachers in order to help the budget crisis.

I've seen so much waste in food at schools, kids throwing lots away. Does our country really need free lunches? I mean in some districts it might be needed, but really how costly/hard is it to make your kid a sandwich and an apple? And how much of that money spent for free lunches be spent for better use? Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal. Is it really asking too much to feed your own kids?

I've been a substitute teacher for the past 5 months and have never paid more than $3 for a school lunch. Is it too much to ask for parents to feed their own kids? Sadly, in too many cases, yes. The free meals some kids receive are probably the only decent meals the kid eats that day. It's not the kid's fault that his/her parents are deadbeats and totally irresponsible as parents. I also know that the schools have a difficult time collecting money from parents who are supposed to be paying for the lunches.

[Mikey]

Anyone know how much money is spent on free school lunches/breakfasts? Our high school district is proposing a 10% pay cut for teachers in order to help the budget crisis.

I've seen so much waste in food at schools, kids throwing lots away. Does our country really need free lunches? I mean in some districts it might be needed, but really how costly/hard is it to make your kid a sandwich and an apple? And how much of that money spent for free lunches be spent for better use? Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal. Is it really asking too much to feed your own kids?

I've been a substitute teacher for the past 5 months and have never paid more than $3 for a school lunch. Is it too much to ask for parents to feed their own kids? Sadly, in too many cases, yes. The free meals some kids receive are probably the only decent meals the kid eats that day. It's not the kid's fault that his/her parents are deadbeats and totally irresponsible as parents. I also know that the schools have a difficult time collecting money from parents who are supposed to be paying for the lunches.

Whatever happened to that relic of yesteryear once known as the...sack lunch?

[Van]

Hey, sacks are expensive, you bourgeois assface! What, do you think they grow on trees?

Sin,
Roger-the-Brokedick

[Mikey]

Hey, sacks are expensive, you bourgeois assface! What, do you think they grow on trees?

Sin,
Roger-the-Brokedick

Rog's problem is he never grew one of his own... :wink:

[Wolfman]

"The cuts they've already made are going to ruin the state college an university system within the next few years."
Damn--no more sex week and free condom and dildo giveaways? How are students ever going to learn about sex?

[BSmack]

I also know that the schools have a difficult time collecting money from parents who are supposed to be paying for the lunches.

Unreal. My father would have capped himself before he would have ever admitted he didn't have the wherewithal to feed his own children.

Damn--no more sex week and free condom and dildo giveaways? How are students ever going to learn about sex?

They could always watch you screw the pooch every time you post.

[Mace]

Anyone know how much money is spent on free school lunches/breakfasts? Our high school district is proposing a 10% pay cut for teachers in order to help the budget crisis.

I've seen so much waste in food at schools, kids throwing lots away. Does our country really need free lunches? I mean in some districts it might be needed, but really how costly/hard is it to make your kid a sandwich and an apple? And how much of that money spent for free lunches be spent for better use? Giving teachers a 10% pay cut just seems brutal. Is it really asking too much to feed your own kids?

I've been a substitute teacher for the past 5 months and have never paid more than $3 for a school lunch. Is it too much to ask for parents to feed their own kids? Sadly, in too many cases, yes. The free meals some kids receive are probably the only decent meals the kid eats that day. It's not the kid's fault that his/her parents are deadbeats and totally irresponsible as parents. I also know that the schools have a difficult time collecting money from parents who are supposed to be paying for the lunches.

Whatever happened to that relic of yesteryear once known as the...sack lunch?

A number of kids do bring sack lunches, Mikey, but it's tough to do if mom/dad don't buy groceries.

[Mikey]

I take a sack lunch to work almost every day...well an insulated lunch box lunch. Most people there are microwaving Healthy Choice or whatever other tasteless manufactured crap they can find.

I...on the other hand...bring leftovers from the one of the best cooks in northern San Diego County...me. WTF if you're going to make dinner every night it takes exactly 0% more effort to make enough extra for the next day's lunch. My kid, who is a senior this year, could partake if he wished, but is usually too lazy. He just stuffs his face when he gets home at 3:30 or so, but wouldn't touch the crap they distribute at the school with Dinsdale's taste buds.