Holy Denkinger!

[Shoalzie]

Dude...

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8616789

Dude... :? :x :doh:

[.m2]

Funny thing is this is usually an automatic call in that situation.

Hey MLB - instant replay!!!!!!!!

[WolverineSteve]

I am disgusted. I have not gone from that high to that low since "Bird stole the ball!!!"

Same exact feeling to me.

[.m2]

I am disgusted. I have not gone from that high to that low since "Bird stole the ball!!!"

Same exact feeling to me.

I'm just glad "Vannie" hasn't started a thread about it on the "Main Forum"....


Being the attention whore (bitch) she really is (over 11,000 posts) in just over a year ....



Psst.... its a baseball thread that should be in the MLB forum.

[R-Jack]

Comical considering all the non-football threads you started in the NFL fourm.

[.m2]

Comical considering all the non-football threads you started in the NFL fourm.

Well. when you're banned from the other forums... I at least give an OT: in the threads.


I could have started an OT: about the furd that just lost his job as Prime Minister of Japan...

[Screw_Michigan]

I am disgusted. I have not gone from that high to that low since "Bird stole the ball!!!"

Same exact feeling to me.

Give me a break. At least "Bird stole the ball" was in a playoff game.

[Killian]

I guess I consider myself a baseball purist, but after a nights sleep I realized that last night was why I love baseball so much. Of all the things that separate baseball from other sports (only sport where the defense controls the ball, no time limit, etc.), a perfect game is the one that stands out the most. There is no equivalent in the other major sports. Not only do you, the pitcher, have to be perfect, but so does the 1 guy in front of you, and 7 guys behind. And now, we were painfully reminded that the 4 guys in blue do as well.

The human element is part of the game of baseball when it comes to officiating. Although the rules put in black and white definitions of what the strike zone should be, each ump has a different one. On the bases, some umps will give more leeway at second when turning two, and some are known to go one way more than others on bang-bang plays. Players learn each umps tendencies, and try to adjust accordingly.

Last night was awesome. I got the first text message after the fifth inning to turn the game on if I wasn't already watching. I got some more animated texts during the 7th. I finally flipped over to see the last out of the 7th and heard Mario and Rod talking about how Galarraga had set down 21 in a row. I then started to franticly text my other Tiger buddies. It was funny to see them all respond with something to the effect of "shut the fuck up". Baseball people are a funny, superstitious lot of which I gladly admit I am a member. The catch by Jackson was nothing short of amazing, seeing him come all the way from right center to catch the ball over his shoulder on the left center warning track. Everyone knew they had it. And then Joyce blew the call.
Jim Joyce is one of the best umpires in the major leagues. He knew the magnitude of his choke job, and you could hear it in his voice after the game. He was inconsolable. He knows that this is the worst call in regular season history. He stood there and took it like a man. He apologized to Galarraga and Leyland publicly and privately.
Perfect games are the rarest of rare when it comes to baseball. It's a shame that it was taken away, but in a weird way, it made me love baseball even more.

[Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff]

I'm glad he blew that call. Don't get me wrong- If I knew Gallarraga or if I was related to him or if I were a Tiger fan, I'd be upset. But let's get something straight here: Joyce was protecting the integrity of the game. Even after Dallas whats-his-face threw his perfecto, I was like "damn, that's 2 in 2 years"

Then Halliday threw one a couple weeks later, and it was like :?

These things need to be spaced out better.....Barker in 81....Witt in 84.....Browning in 88....etc. We went from Randy Johnson in '04 to Buerhle in '09. Then we are on the brink of having THREE in less than a MONTH???

This is different from that year when there were like seven no-nos (1990).....a fluke thing but a no-no is different. a Perfect game is sacred. Only 20 in history. Rack Gallarraga on being on top of his game, but he should have at least walked a batter and he would have gotten that call, gotten his no-hitter, and gone home. Hopefully this will send a message that perfectos are rare and need to happen like every 5 years at the most. Call me old school, but I liked the fact that the integrity was protected.

[Goober McTuber]

Call me old school

How about we just call you an industrial grade retard.

[WolverineSteve]

I am disgusted. I have not gone from that high to that low since "Bird stole the ball!!!"

Same exact feeling to me.

Give me a break. At least "Bird stole the ball" was in a playoff game.

It takes 16 playoff wins to win a hoops title...there have been 20 perfectos in mlb history and none by my Tigers. You are an absolute dumb fucking moron to not understand the gravity.

Or you could remove me from your ankle biting list.

PS. rack Joyce for owning his blunder.

[Screw_Michigan]

Well, on that note...Detroit loses AGAIN. Sucks to be you.

[Killian]

And yet Detroit is better than DC in every major sport, except football. Oh, but Detroit beat them last year...

You fail, again.

[M Club]

And yet Detroit is better than DC in every major sport, except football. Oh, but Detroit beat them last year...

You fail, again.

eh, i wouldn't go too far with that argument. it's only a matter of weeks till he's laid off again and accidentally moves somewhere with a decent sports scene.

[Screw_Michigan]

And yet Detroit is better than DC in every major sport, except football. Oh, but Detroit beat them last year...

You fail, again.

How's your job market and economy?

[Killian]

And yet Detroit is better than DC in every major sport, except football. Oh, but Detroit beat them last year...

You fail, again.

How's your job market and economy?

That would be a great comeback, in CDS. But in a sports forum, you fail, again.

Are you asking because you need a job? There's a quarter slot porn booth that I pass on my way to one of my softball leagues. I can stop in and ask if they are hiring. Our job market is just fine, if you have a marketable degree. You? No such luck.

[WolverineSteve]

And yet Detroit is better than DC in every major sport, except football. Oh, but Detroit beat them last year...

You fail, again.

How's your job market and economy?

Nice deflection Vachon.....myself, I have a full time gig. What about those dc sports you bitter cunt?

[War Wagon]

Rack Killians 1st post in this thread, start to finish.

While I know it was a terrible call last night, I also tip my hat to MLB umps for the 99% of the time they get it right.

Not an easy job.

[Paul]

This thing is the PERFECT reason why instant replay reviews should be mandatory in MLB. FUCK the "human element"....that cost Galarraga a perfect game. Period.

The technology has been available for some time now to not only help MLB umpires make correct calls, some (if not ALL) of those same umps can even be replaced by the same technology. When a historic feat such as a perfect game or a play which could define a World Series title (i.e. 1985 WS) is left to the vices of the "human element", that's simply just not a valid excuse anymore. Sorry.

[Goober McTuber]

Besides, instant replay could only make baseball less watchable. The perfect game was a mere statistic, and baseball’s precious statistics were rendered worthless over the past 20 or so years. WGAF.

[Screw_Michigan]

Are you asking because you need a job? There's a quarter slot porn booth that I pass on my way to one of my softball leagues. I can stop in and ask if they are hiring. Our job market is just fine, if you have a marketable degree. You? No such luck.

You're right. Reporting gigs in Michigan are few and far between. Fine with me. Then again, decent paying jobs for people across the economic spectrum in Michigan are few and far between. How many engineers NOT from Michigan are choosing to stick around because of the pittance they would make compared to surrounding jurisdictions? Absolutely none.

Of course, Michigan's deteriorating economic free fall and unstoppable population exodus will never affect you and Steve, despite your "marketable degree." Keep thinking that. Royal Oak will be Bay City before you know it.

[Killian]

Are you asking because you need a job? There's a quarter slot porn booth that I pass on my way to one of my softball leagues. I can stop in and ask if they are hiring. Our job market is just fine, if you have a marketable degree. You? No such luck.

You're right. Reporting gigs in Michigan are few and far between. Fine with me. Then again, decent paying jobs for people across the economic spectrum in Michigan are few and far between. How many engineers NOT from Michigan are choosing to stick around because of the pittance they would make compared to surrounding jurisdictions? Absolutely none.

Let me get this straight, you want to know how many NON Michigan engineers are sticking around for engineering jobs once they graduate college? I don't know, I'm not an engineer. I wonder how many Harvard MBA's stick around Massachusetts, or how many Michigan MBA's stick around Michigan? Or hell, how many Notre Dame grads stick around Indiana? My guess is not many in all those instances. People tend to want to go back to where they came from after they get their education.

If you're talking about people not originally from Michigan, who moved here for engineering jobs that are now leaving, I haven't the slightest clue. I was an accounting major. All of my friends who graduated from MSU found accounting jobs, and continue to find accounting jobs. I was laid off last year from the small firm I was working, and had an offer at a national company within 2 weeks. Marketable degrees get jobs. More money can be had elsewhere in just about any line of work, but the cost of living is also likely much greater. Did you not know this? Likely not, seeing as how you graduated from the second best college located in your college town.

Of course, Michigan's deteriorating economic free fall and unstoppable population exodus will never affect you and Steve, despite your "marketable degree." Keep thinking that. Royal Oak will be Bay City before you know it.

Royal Oak into Bay City? Great call, as usual. I wasn't aware that Bay City attracted a younger population, just out of college, or that is was centrally located near every major suburb of the biggest city in the state, or close to the three largest interstate highways. Or that it was by the state's largest zoo and other tourist destinations. Go ahead and keep flailing away, law of averages says you have to hit something, sometime.

[R-Jack]

This thing is the PERFECT reason why instant replay reviews should be mandatory in MLB. FUCK the "human element"....that cost Galarraga a perfect game. Period.

The technology has been available for some time now to not only help MLB umpires make correct calls, some (if not ALL) of those same umps can even be replaced by the same technology. When a historic feat such as a perfect game or a play which could define a World Series title (i.e. 1985 WS) is left to the vices of the "human element", that's simply just not a valid excuse anymore. Sorry.

Really? Well OK. Enjoy your six hour contests in mid July then. I can see how this benifits you, as it gives you an extra three hours to gorge yourself to death on twinkies and hot dogs under the guise of being a loyal fan.

[War Wagon]

The technology has been available for some time now to not only help MLB umpires make correct calls, some (if not ALL) of those same umps can even be replaced by the same technology. When a historic feat such as a perfect game or a play which could define a World Series title (i.e. 1985 WS) is left to the vices of the "human element", that's simply just not a valid excuse anymore. Sorry.

Where did you lift that moronic take from, Paul?

[Paul]

I apologize if it makes entirely too much sense, Wags. :doh:

[poptart]

Besides, instant replay could only make baseball less watchable. The perfect game was a mere statistic, and baseball’s precious statistics were rendered worthless over the past 20 or so years. WGAF.

Gobbler gets it.

Growing up (60's and 70's), I loved baseball.
The sport was still pretty decent in the 80's, also.

I've hated it over the past 20 years.

The majority of the flavor of baseball has been sucked right out of it by the steps the "braintrust" has taken to try to make the game appealing to the modern generation.

MLB sucks fat hog right about now and I have no doubt that Daughter Wagon's softball games were much more compelling.

Seriously.


Add replay and put MLB out of it's misery.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

The majority of the flavor of baseball has been sucked right out of it by the steps the "braintrust" has taken to try to make the game appealing to the modern generation.

Like what?

[BSmack]

The majority of the flavor of baseball has been sucked right out of it by the steps the "braintrust" has taken to try to make the game appealing to the modern generation.

Like what?

You know. Like mascot races, "fan zones", divisional realignment, the wild card, the Marlins, and pretty much everything else that wasn't a part of the game when Poptart was a little baby tart.

[Killian]

Besides, instant replay could only make baseball less watchable. The perfect game was a mere statistic, and baseball’s precious statistics were rendered worthless over the past 20 or so years. WGAF.

Gobbler gets it.

Growing up (60's and 70's), I loved baseball.
The sport was still pretty decent in the 80's, also.

I've hated it over the past 20 years.

The majority of the flavor of baseball has been sucked right out of it by the steps the "braintrust" has taken to try to make the game appealing to the modern generation.

MLB sucks fat hog right about now and I have no doubt that Daughter Wagon's softball games were much more compelling.

Seriously.


Add replay and put MLB out of it's misery.

I see. You're "In my day..." guy. Back then, everything was great and politicians didn't lie.

[Goober McTuber]

The majority of the flavor of baseball has been sucked right out of it by the steps the "braintrust" has taken to try to make the game appealing to the modern generation.

Like what?

You know. Like mascot races, "fan zones", divisional realignment, the wild card, the Marlins, and pretty much everything else that wasn't a part of the game when Poptart was a little baby tart.

Don't forget the DESIGNATED HITTER.

[poptart]

I see. You're "In my day..." guy. Back then, everything was great and politicians didn't lie.

It's always a laffable FAIL when one attributes takes to a person which he did not make.

DH
Wild Card
Interleague Play
Overall More Hitter-Friendly Parks
Wink and Look the Other Way at 'Roid Abuse
Going Back 40 years - Pitcher's Mound Lowered and Strike Zone Reduced
Home Run = Sexy, Small Ball = No Fun
Expansion
All-Star Game winnah = World Series Home Field Advantage
Price of Attendance

I see regression, Killian, due to these things.

The NFL and NBA have also very much regressed, imo.

Am I old?

49.


Just calling it as I see it.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I can't disagree with many of those things, and I'm in my late 20s. I just wanted to see your list.

[Killian]

DH
Wild Card
Interleague Play
Overall More Hitter-Friendly Parks
Wink and Look the Other Way at 'Roid Abuse
Going Back 40 years - Pitcher's Mound Lowered and Strike Zone Reduced
Home Run = Sexy, Small Ball = No Fun
Expansion
All-Star Game winnah = World Series Home Field Advantage
Price of Attendance

I see regression, Killian, due to these things.

The NFL and NBA have also very much regressed, imo.

Am I old?

49.


Just calling it as I see it.

It's all a part of change to me. Some of those on your list I can see, others I can't. The biggest thing for me has been expansion. Expansion has watered down baseball (and other sports) more than anything you listed above.

DH - I don't see the big deal. In fact, I tend to lean towards the "like it" side more because the pitchers spot is basically an automatic out in the NL anyway.
Wild Card - I think this was great. It generates more excitement for the post season and causes more teams to be active at the trade deadline.
Interleague Play - Again, I don't see the issue. I wish MLB would rotate the teams a little more, but I think this was a good move.
Overall More Hitter-Friendly Parks - I guess they are more hitter friendly compared to the cookie cutter parks being thrown up in the 60's-70's, but I think this is over blown. Look at some of the parks built from long ago: Ebbets Field, Tiger Stadium, Fenway Park, Wrigly Field, etc. There were some huge parks (Polo Grounds and original Yankee Stadium), but those fields also doubled as football stadiums. I know Wrigly and Tiger Stadium did for awhile, but those were tight squeezes. I like the new ball parks and how they are designed. It's better than when places like Cincinnati, St. Louis and Pittsburgh literally had the same fields.
Wink and Look the Other Way at 'Roid Abuse - Totally agree.
Going Back 40 years - Pitcher's Mound Lowered and Strike Zone Reduced - Strike zone has always been a subjective thing and I think the lowering of the pitchers mound evened out the playing field, only to have it tilted in the hitters favor with PED's.
Home Run = Sexy, Small Ball = No Fun - I guess to the casual fan, but I think this is way off to a true baseball fan. Even if that were the case, that really started to be the case with guys like Early Weaver who would pray for the 3 run homer.
Expansion - Agree, see above.
All-Star Game winnah = World Series Home Field Advantage - Agree
Price of Attendance - This is always going to go up.

I agree with some of your points, but not others. All in all, I see it as how the game is changing. Some things I like, some I don't. It's how it's going to be until the end of time.

[poptart]

Fair points, Killian.

You might chalk up part of my take to the old guy "Things were better in MY day" attitude.
I'll just say that when my dad used to say such things, I would scoff and think to myself, "Dad, you're just old and fucked."
As I grew older I began to see that he was right on with a lot of what he said.

I don't know what your age is.

Baseball is a game and a season for a person with a long attention span.
It's a long winding drama played out from early spring to early autumn - full of subtlety and nuance.
This is the charm.
But many of the steps taken by MLB have diminished this.
They have been steps which appeal to the "fast food drive-thru, remote control" generation.
No action happenin' for 5 seconds?
Oh, click the remote control or mouse.


DH: I tried to find a stat for overall NL pitchers batting average, and what I found was that in 2008 NL pitchers hit .140.
They were an out 86% of the time.
A .300 hitter is an out 70% of the time.
As I see it, a pitcher is another position on the field and he ought to bat.
More strategy and decision-making.
You're well aware of this.
If it's not a big deal to you, ... well, so be it.
Many agree with you.
I don't.

Wild Card: Rewarding the unworthy.
Hey, win your division to get to post-season.
It's the necessary step.
Now you've got an "inferior" team getting itself into a short series where "anything" can happen.
It's a bit of a farce and it diminishes the accomplishment of the teams that do sack up and win their division, imo.

Interleague Play: Ruinous.
Again, part of the charm of MLB was the separation of the leagues.
Both league's were unique and had their own character.
Then once a year, in the Fall Classic, the best of each "unique" league squared off.
This was good stuff.

Hitter-Friendly Parks: Overall, there are more of them.
You covered it.

'Roids: I guess we're pretty much on the same page.

Home Run v. Small Ball: The direction MLB has taken things is toward offense - just as the NFL has done.
This plays well with the instant gratification crowd, but not so well with those with longer attention spans who really like subtlety and nuance.
I can dig a good 13-11 game on occassion, but also find delight in a 1-0 pitcher's battle.

Expansion, All-Star Game Winner, Price: I guess we're pretty much alike in our thinking.
Price of attendance has gone up but the flavor of the sport has lessened, from my POV.
Very bad deal.
Not IN.


Again, just how it looks from my perspective.

[Goober McTuber]

I’m pretty much in agreement with poptart. One other harmful effect of the DH was the greater tendency for pitchers to go head-hunting, knowing full well that they would not have to face the retaliation. Additionally, it adds a bit more strategy to the game with the pitcher in the batting rotation with double substitutions, or at least having a pitcher that’s capable of moving along a base runner.

One other thing that would improve baseball would be a revenue-sharing program like the NFL’s. And before anyone rushes in to point out that there have been more different champions in baseball than there have been in football in the last X number of years, how may were small-market teams? Milwaukee finally has an owner with both money and brains, and they still can’t keep half of their star players.