poor, poor van

[mvscal]

Hey guys, thanks for everything. I'm JACKED and PUMPED for my new NFL gig. Well, gotta go.

[PISC]

Yawn, not even worried.

[Van]

2019 or 2020 is when I figure they'll be back in title contention.

You're being overly pessimistic. How long do you think it would take Duke or Kentucky to come back in basketball? USC is still USfuckingC, and will always be a magnet for top recruits.

Totally different scenarious, basketball and football. In basketball a single player can make an enormous difference, and in college basketball these days it usually just comes down to who has the best upperclassmen? In football, it's all about depth. Those scholarship reductions will combine with the basic stigma attached to the program to reduce the amount of star players they'll be able to bring in. USC is going to be paper-thin along the lines, and they're going to lose out on some of the players they would've otherwise landed. They'll still do well locally, but they're not going to land out-of-state recruits anywhere near so easily now.

USC's plan in recent years has been to recruit very selectively, going for quality over quantity. Now they won't be getting nearly the quantity, and the quality will be significantly reduced.

[Van]

Jsc, look how long it took Alabama and Miami to recover from their scandals. 10 years might be slightly pessimistic, but I think Van is closer to being right than most people realize.

People can argue that the NCAA was too harsh, wasn't harsh enough or were just in their sanctions. The shocker was the amount of scholarships that were taken away. Vacating wins does nothing, stripping trophy's does nothing. We still know who won the games and the awards. I think the post season ban is the thing that is really bullshit. Yes, you are penalizing the school, but you are also penalizing kids who weren't there. So while vacating wins is largely a symbolic gesture, I understand that. Punishing the current team, I don't. The loss of scholarships hurts the school without hurting the current players.

Absolutely. That's the kind of thing I was talking about; namely, finding a way to punish the program without hurting the current kids who had nothing to do with any of it.

The postseason ban hurts the current juniors and seniors, and that's where the NCAA's sanctions went well beyond the scope of the crime. The scholarships and the vacating of games, those are at least debatable to me; the postseason ban is a bridge way too far.

[Van]

So, it's not against the rules to allow for open practices. It's not against the rules for agents to be present. They just can't tamper with the players.

That being said, will $C do more of the same or will they lock the shit down?

Part of the sanctions was that they can't have the likes of Snoop, Will Farrell, et. all running around the practice field.

Really? I wasn't aware of that. They can't even have "friends of the program" visit practices? Not even comics?

So would that also mean that Matthew McConaughy can't jock-sniff Texas, and Toby Keith can't do the same for OU?

[BSmack]

Absolutely. That's the kind of thing I was talking about; namely, finding a way to punish the program without hurting the current kids who had nothing to do with any of it.

The postseason ban hurts the current juniors and seniors, and that's where the NCAA's sanctions went well beyond the scope of the crime. The scholarships and the vacating of games, those are at least debatable to me; the postseason ban is a bridge way too far.

If you really, really want to stop cheaters in college sports, then the coaches have to be financially liable for violations committed under their watch. And that's not just head coaches. ALL coaches should have to sign off on an agreement that they will be held financially liable on a per violation basis before they can take the field.

[Van]

That would be fine by me. It does seem that the coaches are treated as the least culpable of anyone in this whole deal. Pete can bail, no problem. Brian Kelly can bail on Cincinnati right before a Sugar Bowl to take the ND gig, with no waiting period. The players? They're highly regulated and penalized, and they're only there for a relatively short time.

The coaches should definitely be required to have a greater skin in this than the players.

[Killian]

Van, I don't remember the specifics but there was something about people who can and can't be at practice/games.

As far as the post season ban, why not let USC play in the post season, but not allow them to take any money?

[Van]

That's a possible, yeah. So too is B's idea of holding the coaches and even the AD more responsible, rather than heaping all the consequences on the players.

Otherwise, I can see banning agents from interracting with collegiate athletes. Who could argue that one? Seems like a no-brainer. Banning comics who are alumni of the university and friends of the coach? That simply seems petty and vindictive.

[Bucmonkey]

[Laxplayer]

You can't allow them to play in a game and not keep the money. The Pac-10 divides up the money equally among the schools. Now if you go that route just divide up $C's share among the other schools. I agree that hurting the kids on the team right now is flat out stupid Give these kids their shot at a bowl game. Allow them to get their goodie bags etc....but don't allow the school to collect any money.
There has to be a way and I think these bowl bans and tv bans just hurt the guys that are there now so the scholarship thing makes sense because the only thing that's affected is team depth.
I also think a penalty on the coaches should be imposed....something along the lines of if PC ever comes back to college football that team gets penalized in some form or another if they hire him.

[Screw_Michigan]

But but but but didn't you see Cheaty Petey's self-produced internet video confession the other day? He had NOTHING to do with this and CAN'T BELIEVE anyone would accuse him of any wrongdoing.

HE IS A VICTIM!!!!

[M Club]

juniors and seniors can transfer without sitting out a year because of the two-year ban. i imagine if it were a one-year ban then only seniors could peace out.

A senior? It'd be difficult for a senior to transfer to anywhere worth a shit at this late date and still receive playing time. He'd be way too behind the eight ball in terms of spring workouts, learning the system, earning his spot, etc.

presumably he's already gone through spring workouts at sc. also, if he's good enough he'll get to play. otherwise, i'd think a senior would stay put because he's probably developed a bit of loyalty. they can make themselves feel better by dropping some 'us against the world' horseshit on the pac 25 this year.

[M Club]

From some things I've read, MichiganFan should be pretty worried. Their comeuppance is in August I believe. While their violations weren't this bad, sounds like the NCAA is going to be making examples this year.

killian already pointed out the differences in response will probably have a lot to do with this. michigan investigated itself in tandem with ncaa investigators and turned in a five billion page report detailing how and why the violations occurred while the SC AD is out and about telling his people the only reason SC was dinged was because of jealousy. umich is on much more stable ground than sc was considering the report it filed shows the violations had mostly to do with the compliance department fucking up than it did dickrod running roughshod on the rulebook. they also submitted documentation detailing the confusion over QC staff's role monitoring workouts.

should be fine for us, though like you said, if the ncaa's looking to make an example then we're possibly fucked. the big issue at hand is whether we'll be considered repeat offenders because technically we were still on probation when the violations occurred. the ncaa wrapped up it's ed martin investigation in 2003 or so, so that's where those violations are dated from even though they took place ten years earlier.

[M Club]

Don't take your program's irrelevancy out on me, bitch.

so irrelevant that you can't read 'michigan' without breaking out in hives and hitting submit. jon pm'd me yesderday to say he gave you a golden shower.