"Our borders are more secure than they were 20 years ago"

[mvscal]

Randy, the Messican border is 2,000 miles long.

So what? The Great Wall of China is well over 5,000 miles.

What exactly do you think can be done to protect 2000 miles?

All kinds of different things. The first thing you do is channel their movements into hostile terrain with serious obstacles which we have done to some small extent. Then you patrol that terrain with drones and helicopters which are networked into a series of heavily armed, quick reaction forces stationed every few dozen to a hundred miles as necessary and would be available to back up the regular Border Patrol.

Throwing your hands up and whining that it's too hard to do anything about it is an unacceptable (and totally dishonest) response.

You fucking suck dog dick at security, too.

[mvscal]

Using your link, let's say it cost $20 million per mile, which is way over-priced (but I want a high, impenetrable wall with some pretty embossed eagles on our side). $20,000,000/mile x 2000/milles = $40,000,000,000 = $40 billion.

It wouldn't cost nearly that much.

But Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said a wall running the length of a border would cost too much. A 2,000 mile state-of-the-art border fence has been estimated to cost between four and eight billion dollars. Costs for a wall that would run the entire length of the border might be as low as $851 million for a standard 10-foot prison chain link fence topped by razor wire. For another $362 million, the fence could be electrified. A larger 12-foot tall, two-foot-thick concrete wall painted on both sides would run about $2 billion. Initially it was estimated that the San Diego fence would cost $14 million -- about $1 million a mile. The first 11 miles of the fence eventually cost $42 million -- $3.8 million per mile, and the last 3.5 miles may cost even more since they cover more difficult terrain. An additional $35 million to complete the final 3.5 miles was approved in 2005 by the Department of Homeland Security -- $10 million per mile.

[poptart]

and to date - no one has addressed this, which was the basis for this thread:

I didn't see or hear the context (and that's important) in which he (Obama) made the comment. If he was talking about the fight against terrorism then he's most certainly correct and this is a perfect example of taking something he said and spinning it to something entirely different.

If this was said in the context of a discussion about AZ and Socals issues with illegal immigration then while the border may technologically be "more secure" - it's obviously not since the influx of illegals headed into this country is x % greater than it was 20 years ago.

This is the transcript of the speech.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... ion-reform

Government has a threshold responsibility to secure our borders. That’s why I directed my Secretary of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano -- a former border governor -- to improve our enforcement policy without having to wait for a new law.

Today, we have more boots on the ground near the Southwest border than at any time in our history. Let me repeat that: We have more boots on the ground on the Southwest border than at any time in our history. We doubled the personnel assigned to Border Enforcement Security Task Forces. We tripled the number of intelligence analysts along the border. For the first time, we’ve begun screening 100 percent of southbound rail shipments. And as a result, we’re seizing more illegal guns, cash and drugs than in years past. Contrary to some of the reports that you see, crime along the border is down. And statistics collected by Customs and Border Protection reflect a significant reduction in the number of people trying to cross the border illegally.

So the bottom line is this: The southern border is more secure today than at any time in the past 20 years. That doesn’t mean we don’t have more work to do. We have to do that work, but it’s important that we acknowledge the facts. Even as we are committed to doing what’s necessary to secure our borders, even without passage of the new law, there are those who argue that we should not move forward with any other elements of reform until we have fully sealed our borders. But our borders are just too vast for us to be able to solve the problem only with fences and border patrols. It won’t work. Our borders will not be secure as long as our limited resources are devoted to not only stopping gangs and potential terrorists, but also the hundreds of thousands who attempt to cross each year simply to find work.

[mvscal]

Errr...uhhhh..ummm. ~backpedal, backpedal~ Stop moving the goalposts, yeah that's the ticket.

--KC Scrote

[OCmike]

then group the Messican drug gangs on the same level as islamic terrorist threat and they are just fucking not.

Actually, the drug cartels are far more dangerous threats both to our national sovereignty and American lives. Illegal aliens have killed far more citizens than Islamist groups ever have. They have done and will continue to do far more economic damage than Islamists ever will. Drug cartels are in control of far more US territory than Islamists are.

All your fancy technology to "identify threats from abroad" doesn't mean jackmotherfucking shit because any asshat with a handful of pesos can simply stroll across our border any time any day.

This^^^

Scott, you're a security consultant with a philiosiphy that securing the border is too costly and too hard? How is it that you're still employed?

[OCmike]

So The border is safer now than it was 4 years ago - 54% safer

Equating border crossings to border safety is lazy, dumb, and makes you a colossal gaybo. Personally, I think thugs trading machine gun fire so frequently that the US government warns it's citizens to stay miles away from the border due to the extreme level of danger, is a better indicator of border safety than counting the number of Juanita's waddling over to the US side in order to squirt out an anchor baby.

Regarding the fence, it's pretty much common sense. A physical barrier is a deterrent. Just because we lack the funds to put up some motion-sensing invisible force field gimmick, does not mean that you don't put up a fucking fence. BTW, wanna know one of the main reasons that crossings are down in CA? We built a fucking fence.

[Dr_Phibes]

This whole dilemma is sounding less and less the invasion bridgehead mv is describing - and more like the fat old man next door insulting your vision by wearing a vest and shorts in his garden.

I suspect there is no southern neighbour at all, it's simply your minds PROJECTING your inner psyche.

[mvscal]

My God, Fibs...you're right. Those 20 million Mexicans are merely a figment of our imagination. Thank you for resolving this devilish crisis for us. We are in your debt.

[R-Jack]

How the fuck does %54 less equate to %54 safer?

If you are equating decreased apprehensions to increased safety, %54 less apprehensions would equate to %46 safer.

[indyfrisco]

How the fuck does %54 less equate to %54 safer?

If you are equating decreased apprehensions to increased safety, %54 less apprehensions would equate to %46 safer.

Not sure about his math, but they are catching 54% less than they did before yet the beanrer population is exponentially growing. Sounds like we are just getting worse at catching them...

[R-Jack]

Well, there is that.........................

I was just addressing his flawed math. By his logic, the Royals would be fighting for a wild card spot.

[Dinsdale]

Someone is acting quite the dumbfuck in this thread.

I won't say who, because that would spoil all the fun...


but I'll throw out a big hint: His location will come as a suprise to no one.

"Because the authorities have all but quit trying, and aren't doing their job, it obviously means the borders are more secure... geez, what's wrong with you peoples' logic?"

[OCmike]

Someone is acting quite the dumbfuck in this thread.

Why do you think he regularly posts threads about his awesome material possessions? When you've got as many awesome gadgets as Scott, being stupid doesn't sting as much.

[Truman]

Someone is acting quite the dumbfuck in this thread.

I won't say who, because that would spoil all the fun...

but I'll throw out a big hint: His location will come as a suprise to no one.

"Because the authorities have all but quit trying, and aren't doing their job, it obviously means the borders are more secure... geez, what's wrong with you peoples' logic?"

...Even Legends are Subject to leaving a Hanging Curve on Occasion...

Um, I’ll play: Portland?!

Naw, Dins, just because you happen to disagree with Scott’s take, it doesn’t necessarily make him a drug-addled-40-something-Labor-Ready-itinerant-InterWeb-know-it-all too, ya know….

That said.

While I'd love to side with the security solutions expert here stead o' the cats bent on playing one in this thread, it's clear that the dissenters are in the majority and that this Country definitely wants a fence. Step away from the Obama-ade, Scott: If I can't drag an RV to the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge because it's infested with Mexican gangs, then we definitely have Issues on the Border, despite Berrah's statistics and "assurances".

Seems to me that a huge chunk of ol' Prez Ofez's $767 Billion Stimulus Package woulda gone a long way towards all those "shovel ready" jobs that his abortion of a bill was allegedly designed to create, and strung a coupla-hundred-feet-of-wire-or-seven in the Arizona desert to keep the Bad Folk out.

Bad President. Bad argument. Christ, Scott, find another sword to fall on, 'stead of defending THIS asshat....

[Atomic Punk]

When is anybody going to admit that spending money to build a physical border between Mexico and northern Mexico won't work? "The Art of War" remains plausible. Anybody remember "that" guy that was a great war tactician strategically and politically? We as a country have tossed in the keys to this piece of shit that has disgraced us in the highest office that he holds as a slap in the face to all of you that take it up the ass daily. I want to start this as a piss on the face of a BSmack, LTard1 2 3 and 4, and the rest of you dirtbags that go along with this present occupier of the oval office.

[mvscal]

When is anybody going to admit that spending money to build a physical border between Mexico and northern Mexico won't work?

I think we'll manage without input from cirrhotic transvestites, 'K? Thanks. BTW, it already worked in California, tard. It pushed most of the traffic out into the desert.

[Atomic Punk]

I think 24/7online mexsvcal was trying to insult me. CA has no problems with the border anymore? Ancestry doesn't help you in that regard. Google away.

[mvscal]

I think 24/7online

Posting in a puddle of piss at 4 am says what?

[Atomic Punk]

I think 24/7online

Posting in a puddle of piss at 4 am says what?

Hey messcal, IKYABWAI now? You fucking lose dudette. Check yer clock bitch.

[OCmike]

CA has no problems with the border anymore?

No one's saying that, so kindly unfuck yourself.

Illegal human and drug trafficking has increased in certain corridors in Arizona because fencing and increased patrols has made it a bigger pain in the ass to cross in what were the previous high-traffic corridors in CA.

The pattern is clear and obvious: Step up enforcement in one area and traffic increases in less-protected areas.

[Dr_Phibes]

CA has no problems with the border anymore?

a bigger pain in the ass to cross in what were the previous high-traffic corridors in CA.

The pattern is clear and obvious: Step up enforcement in one area and traffic increases in less-protected areas.

But that's more psychological barrier than physical. Anyone can get over, under, through a fence - just as anyone can dodge a visa requirement.

The wisdom as I understand it - is that illegal immigration comes in waves, word gets out that there's a soft touch, so everyone goes for it. They meet with success, then word travels even faster and it becomes an epidemic. If you can shut it down for six months to a year - word travels that it's a pain and it stops, there's a herd-like mentality to it.

Mv's posted it before, but actually cracking down on illegal employers for six months to a year would suffice - rather than spend billions on the construct of a giant earthwork, that's just crazy. When the political will to do the simplest thing doesn't exist, why assume the will exists for a thousands of kilometer wall - the most difficult thing?

[OCmike]

Cracking down on employers will deter those in search of jobs. Now what deters the MS13 gangbangers, pregnant women looking to deposit an anchor baby and a dude who is crossing to join his cousins in Santa Ana? Oh yeah; a fence.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Seriously. Has one Obama Kool-Aid drinker in here actually agreed that the borders are more secure ? I rested my case a couple of pages ago.

No, old man. You sought to blame Obama, and Obama alone, for the current state of the borders. And you did so by invoking a policy that was actually placed into effect by the Bush Administration. Then poptart chimed in, seeking to blame Obama and citing, in support of that, a quote from none other than the Bush Administration.

Plenty of blame to go around on this one. Obama deserves some of it, but by no means does he deserve it all. As Diego pointed out, he's had all of 1.5 years to fix it, whereas Smirky McFlightsuit had eight years (and a Congress much more willing and able to ram his legislation through). As the saying goes, we didn't get into this mess overnight.

[Atomic Punk]

Seriously. Has one Obama Kool-Aid drinker in here actually agreed that the borders are more secure ? I rested my case a couple of pages ago.

No, old man. You sought to blame Obama, and Obama alone, for the current state of the borders. And you did so by invoking a policy that was actually placed into effect by the Bush Administration. Then poptart chimed in, seeking to blame Obama and citing, in support of that, a quote from none other than the Bush Administration.

Plenty of blame to go around on this one. Obama deserves some of it, but by no means does he deserve it all. As Diego pointed out, he's had all of 1.5 years to fix it, whereas Smirky McFlightsuit had eight years (and a Congress much more willing and able to ram his legislation through). As the saying goes, we didn't get into this mess overnight.

Terry, while many of us look for ways to rip on each other... I see you are commenting on the long-term boarder issue and you make valid points. However this topic is pointing to the NOW in respect to Arizona.

While many may think a Utopia of having a border fence nobody can subvert is a joke. Commie from the norte backed up my point earlier in a way... I guess. That's one issue. The other is a policy for overall immigration and how, when, where, etc. to enforce it. 88 has brought this to light with his thread. Also, while Gummy Blue Lips plays the links and seemingly knows he's a one-and-done CIC as a political favor to those that put him in... he's done and he knows it. I don't hate him, just the morons that elected him in.

[Derron]

Plenty of blame to go around on this one. Obama deserves some of it, but by no means does he deserve it all. As Diego pointed out, he's had all of 1.5 years to fix it, whereas Smirky McFlightsuit had eight years (and a Congress much more willing and able to ram his legislation through). As the saying goes, we didn't get into this mess overnight.

Blame somebody for it by god....after all, assigning blame will take care of the problem.

By Obomination was the Messiah of Change, and all his followers were going to make the changes ...blahblahblah.....

Don't live in Cali or AZ..but I do know that our local school district is now 48% Hispanic...much like any other district..in other words we are fucked...

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Don't live in Cali or AZ..but I do know that our local school district is now 48% Hispanic...

It's sounds like Hispanics, unlike the mouth-breathers that spewed forth from your nutsack, are at least smart enough to stay in school.

RACK them.

[Mikey]

CA has no problems with the border anymore?

No one's saying that, so kindly unfuck yourself.

Illegal human and drug trafficking has increased in certain corridors in Arizona because fencing and increased patrols has made it a bigger pain in the ass to cross in what were the previous high-traffic corridors in CA.

The pattern is clear and obvious: Step up enforcement in one area and traffic increases in less-protected areas.

Unfortunately the fence can't stop the boats to Quaaludia and Camp Pendelton.

[Wolfman]

^^^^ typical

"Oh woe is me, it's so hard to do, so many miles."

The freaking Iron Curtain was over 4,000 miles. Don't tell me it can't be done. I guess this is one of the things that Barry Soetero and his peeps don't mind resting about. At least I've never hear him say "we will not rest until the border is secure." Have you ?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

The freaking Iron Curtain was over 4,000 miles. Don't tell me it can't be done.

Jeeeez...tell me about it.

I've been trying to turn America into the Soviet Union my whole life. It's a thankless task.

[OCmike]

CA has no problems with the border anymore?

No one's saying that, so kindly unfuck yourself.

Illegal human and drug trafficking has increased in certain corridors in Arizona because fencing and increased patrols has made it a bigger pain in the ass to cross in what were the previous high-traffic corridors in CA.

The pattern is clear and obvious: Step up enforcement in one area and traffic increases in less-protected areas.

Unfortunately the fence can't stop the boats to Quaaludia and Camp Pendelton.

Okay, I got it: we get the grunts to stage 24/7 live fire exercises at Pendleton. Any Paco deaths are collateral damage. The rest will head right towards the "Express Lane to USA" sign we'll put above the 6' salt water intake to San Onofre. They'll be spit out the other side as chum which will help feed the oyster beds.

[poptart]

Seriously. Has one Obama Kool-Aid drinker in here actually agreed that the borders are more secure ? I rested my case a couple of pages ago.

Then poptart chimed in, seeking to blame Obama and citing, in support of that, a quote from none other than the Bush Administration.

Gee, Terry, maybe because Barry has ... CONTINUED ... the Bush foreign policy?

Yeah, I blame B.O. right now for the border problem and the foolish foreign policy.

Silly me.

[Mikey]

^^^^ typical

"Oh woe is me, it's so hard to do, so many miles."

The freaking Iron Curtain was over 4,000 miles. Don't tell me it can't be done. I guess this is one of the things that Barry Soetero and his peeps don't mind resting about. At least I've never hear him say "we will not rest until the border is secure." Have you ?

WTF are you babbling about?

You want to build a fence all the way up the West Coast? On the beach?

Choke to death on a tarball, and proclaim the wonders of Michael Steele and the Republican Party in American Sign Language while you're on the way out.

[War Wagon]

The freaking Iron Curtain was over 4,000 miles...

pssst, Wolfie... the Iron curtain wasn't really a curtain and certainly not a fence. More like a drape.

[Smackie Chan]

the Iron curtain wasn't really a curtain and certainly not a fence. More like a drape.

And it was pretty hilarious when Brezhnev tried wiping his cock on it during mid-winter and it stuck.

[War Wagon]

99.9% sure unless the Repubs throw another Palin up he's one term and out

Hell, he might get thumped by Shillary.

[mvscal]

Don't live in Cali or AZ..but I do know that our local school district is now 48% Hispanic...

It's sounds like Hispanics, unlike the mouth-breathers that spewed forth from your nutsack, are at least smart enough to stay in school.

RACK them.

Guess again, dumbfuck. Hispanics have the highest dropout rates in the country by far. Their rate is double that of porch monkeys and nearly five times as great as normal white people.

[mvscal]

My original take was you haven't seen any Mexicans declaring Jihad.

You haven't seen them because you have your head stuck up your ass. Ever hear of El Plan de Aztlan? La Raza? Mecha? Of course you haven't. Your head is stuck up your ass.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, another one of your precious anchor babies just got busted attempting to smuggle in heavy weapons...

A 20-year-old U.S. citizen was stopped at the U.S.-Mexico border crossing in Andrade on Saturday with two machine guns strapped to the engine of his pickup.

Customs and Border Protection officers working at the crossing near Yuma, Ariz., noticed that the driver of the truck appeared nervous and stopped his vehicle for a closer inspection. When they popped the hood, they saw the guns, which were attached to the engine with plastic zip ties.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... hine-guns/

That's an MG3 used by the Mexican Army.



Gee, can't imagine why Arizona wants to tighten up border security.

[Truman]

Onoga is Bush dark - Nothing has changed. Nothing is better. He's failed to deal with big issues (like the economy or the Gulf) while burning up all his political capital on an issue (healthcare) that didn't need intervention - at last not now while we have troops fighting two wars, unemployment over 9% and a debt that's out of control. 99.9% sure unless the Repubs throw another Palin up he's one term and out

I was pretty much content to let you have the last say on this topic without comment, Scott, ‘til mvscal bumped the thread. ‘the hell. Just a couple-o’-three thoughts. Besides, I’m bored.

You DO realize that you’re placing stock in an American Electorate dumber than a whole English college full of Nick-Crisco-climate-change-posts, and stupid enough to elect this Empty Suit to Office in the first place, right? This November’s elections should finally drive a stake into the spectre that is G-Dub and end the President’s tired harangue of “TODDIT” (the other dude did it).

HOWEVER...

The Blame Game is simply due to shift. Oturban will have two solid years to harangue a Voting Public – the same one that has an attention span the size of your average Youtube video and is more engaged politically with the pursuit of the next American Idol - and blame a newly-minted Republican Congress for obfuscating “his” Recovery and delaying the Hope and Change that America so clearly mandated in ‘08.

Can’t wait. out loud.

As for your categorization of the Good Governor...

Sorry, but on her Worst Day, I have trouble imagining Ms. Palin assuming control of our Banks and Financial Institutions; co-opting TWO major American automobile corporations; quadrupling our Federal Debt; presiding over double-digit unemployment; signing a quarter of a trillion dollar “spending bill” in the name of “job creation” and “stimulus” and then having the audacity to ask for more; lobbying for a disastrous job-killing energy bill in the name of junk science and a cross-dressing, fat-assed ex-vice president; having her AG patently ignore blatant racist election fraud; nominating a pair of leftist dyke skanks to sit on our Nation’s Highest Court; alienating our allies, glad-handing our enemies, kow-towing before kings, handing our nuclear capabilities over to the Russkies on a plate AND apologizing to the fucking French for American “arrogance”; and playing golf for two solid months before even acknowledging the enormity of the biggest natural disaster in our Nation’s history.

Oh, and not to mention seizing one-sixth of the Country’s GDP in the name of healthcare “reform” AND - back on topic, sorta - suing a sovereign state for passing an immigration bill to, well, enforce Federal immigration law.

And you truly believe Sarah Palin could do any worse?!

Dude....

[War Wagon]

I like it when Tru gets bored.

[Dinsdale]

I was pretty much content to let you have the last say on this topic without comment, Scott, ‘til mvscal bumped the thread. ‘the hell. Just a couple-o’-three thoughts....



Besides, I’m bored.

What's with the opening explainations?

The last 3 words was all that needed to be said.

Well written, and I agree with the sentiment.

My only points of contention:

lobbying for a disastrous job-killing energy bill in the name of junk science and a cross-dressing, fat-assed ex-vice president

Back off there, buddy -- we have no concrete evidence that The Warm One is a crossdresser.

A socialist-on-commission, self-made-documentary-starring, masseuse-molesting, self-worshipping douchenozzle?

I'll buy that.

Just stop with the libelous accusations, alright?

having her AG patently ignore blatant racist election fraud

Much better to wait until the fox is out of the Pardon Henhouse, dontcha think?

kow-towing before kings

I don't really have a problem with customs and whatnot -- so long as the foreign leader he's meeting shows equal respect, really. Beats showing up to a meeting with an ally's honcho with a stupid DVD set as a "gift," after returning their gift.

playing golf for two solid months

Doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy... I mean, the shit was gonna leak anyway, right?

A man's got to have priorities, you know.

Just think if Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, or Ben Hogan would have sat around crying about a few tarballs, and that their shrimp was a hair greasy -- THEN where would we be today?