What freedom will they take away next?

[Mikey]

I'm surprised wolfie hasn't expressed his indignation yet.
Prolly because it didn't happen in California, where we've actually already pretty much succumbed to single provider trash-hauling.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/ ... hills.html

'Tea partyers' oppose trash-collection changes

Valley community's decision to change the
way trash is picked up provided further
proof of how deeply the nation's anti-
government, "tea party"-fueled sentiment is
running.

A decision by the Fountain Hills Town
Council to hire a single trash hauler and
begin a curbside recycling program has
been met with angry protests from residents
who accuse town leaders of overstepping
their bounds and taking a leap toward
socialism.

Some even likened it to "Obamacare" for
garbage, calling it "trashcare."

An Arizona website affiliated with the
Alexandria, Va.,-based Campaign for Liberty
, azc4l.com, features an intimidating, cigar-
chomping man standing in front of the
town's famous fountain next to a story
about the issue.

And last week, a flier was circulated around
Fountain Hills with an ominous icon and the
phrase, "The Hills Will Have Eyes," and that
claimed the "Fountain Hills Green Police"
checked residents' garbage and recyclables,
and as a result, "you are wanted for
questioning."

On Thursday, a divided council approved a
five-year contract with Allied Waste Services
to be the single hauler and begin a recycling
program. Residents currently can choose
among five haulers and the town has no
curbside recycling.

That single issue generated a nearly five-
hour public hearing and council debate that
went past midnight.

Fountain Hills Mayor Jay Schlum believes the
angry reaction, which also included e-mails
to the mayor and council, was fueled by this
year's election.

"I don't think people would have been as on
edge had it not been following one of the
more volatile elections we've had in our
country's history, at least as far as I've been
around," he said. "But that doesn't mean
what they brought up isn't valid or anything.
It just added more heat to those arguments."

Peter Bardow, an opponent, said the issue
isn't about politics, but about taking away
his and other residents' right to choose their
own trash hauler. "I feel like you're forcing
homeowners-association regulation and
homeowners-association enforcement on
me," he said.

Fountain Hills is home to two tea-party
groups - Fountain Hills Tea Party and
Fountain Hills Tea Party Patriots.

[Mace]

Sorry, but I don't understand why anyone would be upset over this issue. We have curbside trash pickup by the city and have to personally deliver trash for recycling to a recycling bin located near city hall...if we choose to recycle, which we do. The tea baggers need to lighten up.

[Derron]

Sorry, but I don't understand why anyone would be upset over this issue. We have curbside trash pickup by the city and have to personally deliver trash for recycling to a recycling bin located near city hall...if we choose to recycle, which we do. The tea baggers need to lighten up.

Typical government take over of private business. This model where there were several trash collection companies in most areas, there by having competition and keeping rates in check, is being lost all the time as Waste Management and others pay off the government to start a single provider system, and then WM goes in and goes WalMart on everybody else and runs them out of business.

They then try and bill you for "extra" garbage that you put out even if you did not, and then will not take it off your bill, since they have a bunch of pre canned scripts as to why you did in fact put out extra garbage.

Over priced, lousy service and complete dickheads to deal with. $ 48 per fucking month for a small can...and I recycle and compost..I don't even fill the damn thing up.

[Mikey]

Can't see how having five trash collectors can possibly end up cheaper than one. Basically five times the fuel and five times the manhours to collect the same amount of trash.

We live on a private road that we share with 20 other families. It's not in great shape as it is. We have three pickups every Friday - regular trash, recyclables and yard waste. If we had 15 pickups every week the road would have crumbled into gravel by now and who wants 15 garbage trucks driving up and down their street every week anyway?

[Wolfman]

Freedom from single trash haulers is right there in the US Constitution with the freedom to kill your baby as long as it doesn't scream too much, to marry as many women or men as you wish, to grow and sell all the pot you want, and the freedom to post on this board. There might also be a right for as many trash trucks to drive up and down your fucking road if they feel like it all day long too.
(-:

[OCmike]

I think there's also a "big brother" fear at work here. San Francisco was in the news a few months back, announcing a plan to start fining residents who threw away recycleables in the regular trash. They plan to track a resident's recycling habits using RFID tags.

Sure, on the surface it seems like typical "wouldn't it be wonderful if we could MAKE everyone recycle"-utopian idiocy that could only pass in the People's Republic of SF. But once other towns start seeing how much revenue SF is getting from the fines, you can be damn sure they'll follow suit.

...and getting a single hauler is a necessary step to get that ball rolling.

[mvscal]

Sorry, but I don't understand why anyone would be upset over this issue.

Of course you don't. They failed to include any sort of cost analysis in the article. I'm sure it was an honest mistake...well not really.

[Mikey]

There might also be a right for as many trash trucks to drive up and down your fucking road if they feel like it all day long too.
(-:

Actually, no.

You see, when you live on a private fucking road which is, by definition, owned by the fucking residents, you can deny anybody the right to fucking drive on it. That would, of course, have to be done by a vote of the Road Fucking Maintenance Association, of which I am Acting Fucking President.

So don't fucking fuck with me.

[War Wagon]

In KC the city provides trash and recyclable pick up, all courtesy of the 1% earnings tax that anyone who works in KC has to pay. Single provider, though there's one company that takes the trash and another the recyclables.

For now at least. They passed a statewide ballot measure to potentially repeal that earnings tax and residents of STL and KC will now have to vote again in April to decide to keep it, or not. That tax currently provides 40% of the city budget and KC will be fucked without it.

I wasn't too concerned about this measure even though I knew it would pass on a statewide ballot. But damned if it didn't pass by a wide margin even in KC and STL, by those who stand to lose the most. They'll have to make up that budget deficit somehow, and it will be in higher property taxes and fees for every city service from dog catcher to meter reader.

Free trash service? Forget about it.

[Derron]

They plan to track a resident's recycling habits using RFID tags.
But once other towns start seeing how much revenue SF is getting from the fines, you can be damn sure they'll follow suit.

Following right along is the Peoples Republic of Portland, who has a program to pick up kitchen waste.....yes..store your kitchen waste up and set it out and the City will come pick it up or subsidize its contract hauler to, and then sell it to a recycling company to make compost, which it then will then resell.

And, the PR of P instituted a $ 30 fee per house hold in certain neighborhoods to offset the leaf pickup they have. Now I live in the country, but I know a few people in town who:

1. Use a commercially available compost bin to recycle all kitchen waste.
2. Collect and compost all leaves off their property
3. Do not burn any woody debris, and have a neighborhood chipper available to the group who went together to buy it.

Fuck people.... educate yourselves at bit and stop getting fucked by the government both financially and morally.

[War Wagon]

I think there's also a "big brother" fear at work here. San Francisco was in the news a few months back, announcing a plan to start fining residents who threw away recycleables in the regular trash. They plan to track a resident's recycling habits using RFID tags.

Sure, on the surface it seems like typical "wouldn't it be wonderful if we could MAKE everyone recycle"-utopian idiocy that could only pass in the People's Republic of SF.

It costs 6 times more to pick-up, sort, and process recyclables than it would to just dump it all in the fucking landfill.

But nobody ever said going green was going to be cheap.

[mvscal]

But nobody ever said going green was going to be cheap.

Unfortunately, you are dead wrong about that.

[War Wagon]

guess I shoulda' placed [sarcasm] tags after that.

[Bizzarofelice]

don't know if the earnings tax repeal passed by a widfe margin in st. louis city. the earnings tax is 30% of the city budget; a budget already crazy stressed by pension issues.

[LTS TRN 2]

Sorry, but I don't understand why anyone would be upset over this issue. We have curbside trash pickup by the city and have to personally deliver trash for recycling to a recycling bin located near city hall...if we choose to recycle, which we do. The tea baggers need to lighten up.

You don't get it?

Well, it's not about trash, it's about RECYCLING!!!!!

You see, the Tea Baggers are ALL insane Christers who are offended at even a hint that the earth--and our lives and spirituality and everything else that we are--is in grave danger by virtue of our own rapacious stupidity, fear, and greed--as a species. They ACTUALLY believe that recycling is a wasteful government spending at best, and (probably) some satanic plot at worst.

Okay? Are you WAKING UP to these knuckle dragging ignorant weirdos yet? They've been basically thrashed at the polls, and yet like zombies they claim victory and further goals. The so-called actual GOP probably feels like Von Hindenburg right now trying to figure out how to fit these radicals into an established conservative order

[BSmack]

It costs 6 times more to pick-up, sort, and process recyclables than it would to just dump it all in the fucking landfill. But nobody ever said going green was going to be cheap.

The lions share of that cost would be eliminated if garbage and recycling trucks were multipurposed. And that 6x figure was pulled so far out of your ass I'm surprised it doesn't have traces of your last meal on it.

[Derron]

The lions share of that cost would be eliminated if garbage and recycling trucks were multipurposed.

And you are convinced that WM or any of the large haulers would not have already figured this concept out if it was operationally efficient and economically efficient??

Go ahead and drop them an e mail with your ideas, since I am sure they have never considered that concept.

[indyfrisco]

We were told our property taxes cover the cost of trash collection. 3 years later, they started charging $0.75/bag picked up. They provided 4 recycling bins at our cost of $6 apiece for us to recycle cans, glass, newspaper and cardboard. This year, the price of bags increased to $1.50 per bag, property taxes increased and they will no longer recycle beer bottles, only clear glass like mayo jars.

Yeah, all ran by our very liberal city government...

[Derron]

You see, the Tea Baggers are ALL insane Christers who are ( insert thread topic here)

Maybe we could call you One Trick Pony instead of Soccer Ball...but soccer balls are fun to kick around.

[Cuda]

don't want to pay the trash collection fee? don't pay it. eventually somebody will figure out that you're not paying it and they'll probably stop picking up your trash. then you can store the shit up in a trailer converted from an old pick-up truck bed and haul the shit to the fucking dump yourself every couple months when the stink gets overwhelming and the rats start fighting the raccoons for the garbage. at least that's how the cheapskate, hilbilly neighbors down the street did it when i was a kid.

[LTS TRN 2]

You see, the Tea Baggers are ALL insane Christers who are ( insert thread topic here)

Maybe we could call you One Trick Pony instead of Soccer Ball...but soccer balls are fun to kick around.

And besides being an ankle biting knee-jerk Rusp Limpdick parrot, what's your supposed act?

Are you disputing that the Tea Baggers are ALL hardline Christers? Or are you allowing this but suggesting that it doesn't matter--has no effect on their simplistic rants? Are you actually trying to pretend that the GOP isn't shitting the bed right now trying how to deal with the grotesquely embarrassing specter of Palin in 2012?

C'mon, you little punk, if you've got the stones to cue up a silly picture, at least try to step up and actually say something. Or are you really just 13 years old?

[Derron]

an ankle biting knee-jerk Rusp Limpdick parrot,
the Tea Baggers are ALL hardline Christers?
Palin in 2012?

Look here Soccer Ball....I think you might have missed a couple of your templates, since you have the usual boring and repetitive squawking points that you soooo frequently open those e mails where you just get over on everyone....better hurry your reply up there, One Trick Pony, you have an afternoon performance to make.

[LTS TRN 2]

Did you just say something? Or what? I can't see your point at all. The nominal topic of this thread is the Whining in the Tea Bagger fashion at having to pay for recyling along with the trash pick up. That's exactly what I'm commenting on. You're just gnawing my ankle, period. Are you a total idiot? Or are you just scared to actually attempt to make a point and back it up--because you know I'll hammer you with ease? Pathetic.

[BSmack]

The lions share of that cost would be eliminated if garbage and recycling trucks were multipurposed.

And you are convinced that WM or any of the large haulers would not have already figured this concept out if it was operationally efficient and economically efficient?? Go ahead and drop them an e mail with your ideas, since I am sure they have never considered that concept.

If big corporations thought of all the good ideas, there would be no need for small business. So spare me the "If WM hasn't thought of it it must suck bullshit."

[War Wagon]

The lions share of that cost would be eliminated if garbage and recycling trucks were multipurposed.

And how do you propose multipurposing a trash truck to also be a recyclables truck? Retrofitting it? How much would that cost? Design and build new trucks? How much do you think that would cost?

Do you have any idea how much a trash truck costs? I do, as my wife works for the largest trash hauling company in KC and just a bought a bunch of new ones with self loaders and engines that don't spew black exhaust. They run about $300 K each.

So what you're talking about is unfeasible for even large companies, much less small businesses. And like Derron points out, if it were economically feasible, someone would've already been doing it.

And that 6x figure was pulled so far out of your ass I'm surprised it doesn't have traces of your last meal on it.

oops, my bad.

Turns out it's closer to 8 times as costly.

Commercial and industrial recycling can be very profitable, but the curbside variety is almost always a loser.

Kansas City, for example, spends about $4 million a year to pick up widely dispersed piles of garbage deemed “recyclable.” How much would it cost to simply dump this stuff in a landfill?

In round numbers, not $4 million but about $550,000: 23,000 tons of recyclables, times the $24-a-ton landfill tipping fee.

[Derron]

If big corporations thought of all the good ideas, there would be no need for small business. So spare me the "If WM hasn't thought of it it must suck bullshit."

Do not go looking for a job anywhere soon in private business that requires even a small bit of critical path thinking. Companies like WM do not get to where they are, and have the market share they do by sitting around and being operationally inefficient.

Every move the driver makes, every turn the truck makes, every process used in the pickup, transportation, and processing of the payload has been very carefully planned, researched and evaluated. IF...IF it were operationally and economically feasible to pickup, transport and deliver for process both household and commercial waste, AND recyclable materials on the same truck in the same facility in the same process..well they may have worked that one out by now.

If any company would have a vested interest in lowering their cost in the disposal process, WM or any other company would..why don't you get a couple of your academia dudes together, pop back a couple of brews, hit the bong a couple of times, and draw that plan for that multi purpose truck up on a bar napkin, get it engineered, build a prototype , patent it all, and then start manufacturing it...oh and then see if WM or anybody else wants to buy the finished product. I mean those stupid fucks just been sitting around working these inefficient procedures all over the world.

Looks like one hell of a potential business opportunity you should consider putting your life savings into.

[Derron]

Did you just say something? Or what? I can't see your point at all.

Of course you can't see my point..you have less brain power than your new name "Soccer Ball" so understanding a concept outside of your " Tea Party Christers- Rush Limpdick" yammering is impossible. Continue to waste bandwidth with your postings.

[War Wagon]

Looks like one hell of a potential business opportunity you should consider putting your life savings into.

bwa - Derron gets a RACK! (Not just for that quote, but the entire post. I can't stand it when people quote and re-quote... page strectching dipshits, get to the motherfucking point)

Who are you again, Derron?

Not even the same poster I once got in flamewars with as far back as TNW. No sir. I guess we all evolve, but you've gone from scratching in charcoal on the walls of your cave... to what I read in that post.

eventho...

Bri has already pretty much burned thru his savings.

[Mace]

Looks like one hell of a potential business opportunity you should consider putting your life savings into.

bwa - Derron gets a RACK! (Not just for that quote, but the entire post. I can't stand it when people quote and re-quote... page strectching dipshits, get to the motherfucking point)

Who are you again, Derron?

Not even the same poster I once got in flamewars with as far back as TNW. No sir. I guess we all evolve, but you've gone from scratching in charcoal on the walls of your cave... to what I read in that post.

eventho...

Bri has already pretty much burned thru his savings.

What is it that you don't like again, Wags?

[War Wagon]

asshole

[Derron]

Not even the same poster I once got in flamewars with as far back as TNW. No sir. I guess we all evolve, but you've gone from scratching in charcoal on the walls of your cave... to what I read in that post.

I guess I should be happy that Wags has decided that I have "evolved" from scratching in charcoal to whatever he perceives as good smack...but it really just proves that you can throw a load of bullshit out there, and one of the monkeys is bound to pick it up, smell it and decide if he wants to pick through it for a dung bug or two....

[Dinsdale]

And, the PR of P instituted a $ 30 fee per house hold in certain neighborhoods to offset the leaf pickup they have.

Not quite...

They actually don't pick up the leaves in the "leaf zones." You have to clean them up yourself, and then they don't pick them up... and charge people $30 for not picking them up...


Yeah, there's a functional city government for you.

Whereas at my friend's house in McMinnville, where he lives on an acre with a million huge deciduous trees, he just has to blow them out into the street (and when he does, the pile is realllllllly impressive -- several feet high the length of his lot), and the city comes and picks them up, free of charge. And they do it every week or two in fall...

And oddly enough, McMinnville doesn't end up underwater after a heavy fall rain, like the Stupid Cities that want to charge people to clean up their own leaves do.


Then again, the PRoP tries to hold homeowners responsible for keeping the storm drain on the street in front of their house clear... I'm suprised they don't charge people an extra $50 for the pleasure of doing that labor.