Word on the street

[SoCalTrjn]

i saw an m2 size picture, the letters USC, and figured you were whining some more along your persecution angle....figured i could supplement my previous post. my bad, i guess.

nice socks Deanthony.

it happens

one of the pics of Lyles that was posted on one of the sites was one that he posed for with Pete Carroll, Im sure in the NCAAs eyes that that is proof that he and Pete have been friends since diapers and USC will be hit for failing to monitor Oregons athletic program thus keeping USC banned from BCS Bowls for another 5 years

[Killian]

How many times has Oregon been on probation?

[SoCalTrjn]

i dont know how many times they have been on probation, I know they just got off of probation in 06.
recruiting violations like these are far far worse to the competitive balance of college football than a failure to monitor violation.

Seastrunks High School coach said he was told by Seastrunks mother to not get involved with his recruitment, that Will Lyles was going to be handling it. Lyles was fired from Scout for copying their database as well as trying to direct players to Oregon at the all star game. He was also paid more than twice of what the other three scouting services Oregon used combined.

there are also photos like this, thats Lyles on the left and Flenory on the right

hardly look like impartial scouts, look more like Boosters
So now Oregon is paying boosters, thats an NCAA violation
Oregons boosters are steering players in the direction of Oregon, another NCAA violation
Its going to pile up on Oregon and they deserve a punishment far greater than what USC was given

[Dinsdale]

How many times has Oregon been on probation?

The only one I can think of was a double-secret minor violation, which resulted in no lost schollies, no bowl restrictions, and no TV sanctions... pretty crippling stuff.

Of course, that was in the Golden Era, when Myles Brand (former U of O president) figured that his old buddies at Oregon and Indiana could do no wrong.


If this smoke catches fire, what a black eye for the NCAA -- how is the boxscore going to look for the 2011 BCS Game?


Auburn - 0
Oregon - 0

Vacate the title and the runner-up? Wouldn't that just be sweet?

[Dinsdale]

And BTW -- Oregon must be quite a bit cooler than Auburn -- Auburn pays $200,000 for 5-stars, Oregon is getting them for $25,000.

They should get an award, not a suspension.

[Goober McTuber]

And BTW -- Oregon must be quite a bit cooler than Auburn -- Auburn pays $200,000 for 5-stars, Oregon is getting them for $25,000.

Auburn players belong to a union. They get pensions too, BTW.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

is a major college football program is about to be outed for major violations. So which SEC school are you guys going with? I'll say Tennessee.

So it's Phil Knight U.

Shame on you. :D

I know. Considering the original source was Cowturd and his ties to the U&L, I should've went with Oregon.

[Mace]

And BTW -- Oregon must be quite a bit cooler than Auburn -- Auburn pays $200,000 for 5-stars, Oregon is getting them for $25,000.

Auburn players belong to a union. They get pensions too, BTW.

True, but I think most kids would prefer free Nike gear for life.

[Dinsdale]

You'll never guess what the big topic was on sports radio around here yesterday (particularly on the Ducks Radio Network)?

They actually interviewed several "street agents," including one of the involved parties.

They all said some of the same things...

One of the things they said was "Oregon isn't doing anything any other big name program doesn't do -- they're just the new kid on the big name block, and didn't do a good enough job cooking their books."

The other one pretty much all of them said was "They've become a threat to the traditional blue-chips. They ticked off the wrong people by going into their backyard and recruiting 5-stars. While I don't have firsthand knowledge, it doesn't take a rocket scientists to figure out which 5-7 team called the NCAA on them."

Yup, they all pointed the finger at the same whistle-blower. It was all good when Oregon was buying recruiting 2 and 3 stars. As soon as they pulled Heisman potentials and 5-stars out of 5-7's state, all of a sudden the NCAA is being tipped off.



And on a slightly different note, they broke down some money numbers on the radio yesterday.


Contrary to what we thought, there was actually two losers in the BCS Championship Game -- Oregon and Auburn.

Oregon finished $300,000 in the hole, Auburn $600,000 (Auburn brought more people and stayed at a little nicer hotel, etc.)

That ain't right.

ESPN made out just fine. The NCAA made out just fine.


Auburn and the SEC paid $600,000 for a glass trophy. Oregon and the PAC paid $300,000 for no trophy.


I know both teams could have been a little more frugal in their travel expenses and whatnot, but ESPN paid what, about $30 million for the game? Yet the travel expenses came out of the pockets of the people of Oregon and Alabama (OK, in a very very roundabout way)?


That just ain't right. I guess I'd be OK with the loser breaking even, but shouldn't the winner's conference get at least a few bucks of that extremely large pie?


I don't know the numbers-breakdown in previous years, but this just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth, worse than the outcome of the game did. I guess to the victors go the spoils.


"You guys both had great seasons, and put on one hell of a show... here's your bill."

[Mace]

Phil Knight can cover the Oregon losses......Cam Newton will cover Auburn's.

[Dinsdale]

BTW -- the flap here seems to be that they grossly overpaid a "recruiting service," which oddly enough, came after Lache Seastrunk committed to Oregon out-of-the-blue.


IF there was a cash payment to secure a player, throw the book at them. If they just played a little one-upsmanship in the "recruiting service" game, then change the rules.

In Oregon's defense, they purchased more film/reports on players from the overpaid service than previous years. And it's still way cheaper than sending out a scout to evaluate players from all over the country (tougher for a state with a relatively small population than for a heavily populated ones, Texas, california, and Florida being fine examples).

[SoCalTrjn]

Will Lyles was the father figure that Seastrunks mother told Seastrunks HS football coach would be handling Seastrunks recruitment.
Will Lyles left Elite Scouting Services in December of 09 and and went independent filing for his DBA on Dec 30, 2009
He accepts a check from Oregon for 25,000 dollars, 10,000 more than his "National Package" just before Seastrunk signs with Oregon out of the blue
As an Oregon Booster, Lyles can not have any influence on a recruit yet Lyles influenced Seastrunk in to going to Oregon.
That Lyles was paid 10,000 dollars more by Oregon than his asking price is red flag #1
That Lyles was paid more than twice as much as all of the other scouting services Oregon used combined is red flag #2
That Laches mother said that Lyles was coordinating Laces recruitment and Lyles was paid 25,000 dollars by Oregon the week of signing day is red flag #3


USC was busted for not catching a cheater trying to get a player out of USCs program, Oregon just got busted for cheating to get a player in to their own program, so whats a worse violation, failing to monitor current players or paying to get new players?

[SoCalTrjn]

Oregon and Auburn were each paid 12 million dollars to go to their BCS games, if they cant take 55 players and their coaching staff to Arizona for a week for 12 million dollars then they have some issues.

[Dinsdale]

Oregon and Auburn were each paid 12 million dollars to go to their BCS games

You mean the PAC and the SEC were paid $12 mil?

Is that what you meant?

[SoCalTrjn]

No, the schools are paid the money, they cover their expenses and then the Pac splits the rest, thats how USC did it for all the BCS bowls they were in and how SI explained the bowl payouts were handled. USC also didnt lose any money in any of the BCS bowls they played in.

[SoCalTrjn]

These invoices look totally legit
http://media.oregonlive.com/behindducks ... cs_001.pdf
invoice #1, and sales tax.... in Oregon.... for a service and not an actual good?
Yeah ill believe that when my shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert


http://media.oregonlive.com/behindducks ... SS_001.pdf
25,000 for a service that CSS's website said was 15,000 dollars a week ago, they changed their prices yesterday (Mar 4, 2011)
invoice #1001, well at least they didnt use invoice #1 this time, Lyles was also smart enough to not charge sales tax in Oregon where there is no sales tax, especially for a service and not a product.
However the address that is used for Lyles invoice is an empty condo, hard to feel that an empty condo is going to pass the smell test as the office for a national scouting service
http://www.trulia.com/property/30364851 ... n-TX-77054
Lyles not only mentored Seastrunk and coordinated his recruitment, he was also Lamichael James guest at the College Football Awards, how many of the Texas based players at Oregon are at Oregon because of a booster on Oregons payroll?

Oregons dirty, they deserve far worse punishment than USC received.


Too bad Nike and Uncle Phil are private entities whose records are not public domain.

Oregon is using outsiders to recruit for their basketball team too
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindducksb ... gatio.html
Lack of institutional control? seems to be so



another whoopsie
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/ncaa-snoo ... gear-29541
recruits are not allowed to take all the free stuff they are given to wear on recruiting trips home but this kid shows up at LAX in over 400 dollars of Nike gear, I suppose they dont have any receipts they can produce for those?

[Dinsdale]

First off, if us Oregonians purchase anything by mail, we have to pay the sales tax of whatever state it was mailed from. So while there may be some things that make you go "HMMMMM," the sales tax isn't one of them. It lends legitimacy, if anything.


On Lyle's invoice, the numbers being thrown around are inaccurate. If you look, the $25K includes both the high school and JuCo packages, which were priced at $25K for the pair of them all along. They're just not, oddly enough, itemized on the invoice -- which isn't number #1001 (not sure where you got that), but rather #10012011, which would lead one to believe that there were many invoices written in 2010. Someone might be in trouble for not charging sales tax, BTW -- I think different states handle sales tax on shipped items differently, and Oregon has no control over that at all. But for your edification, we do indeed pay sales tax when we order stuff from out of state.

Why would Oregon issue a PO and require an invoice for dirty-payments? That doesn't make sense when there's boosters with that much in their wallet who could just hand over a wad of cash.


And if the hoops team is paying guys to go there, how come they don't have any decent players (Jovean Catron is pretty good, but he's going to have a PhD by the time he burns up all his grayshirts)? The article you linked to is A) old news, and B) is talking about the period after Ernie Kent left, and the school was without an AD. It resulted in a free-for-all with agents trying to get the garbage players to go pro... overseaes, since none of them had any NBA potential whatsoever.


Oh, and you DO remember how the PAC/NCAA found out about the agents in the hoops program, right?

They found out when Mullins and Altman called them. While there certainly was an element of "lack of institutional control," it was a very weird set of circumstances that led to it (fired the coach, then the AD left, no one to watch the henhouse), they reported it immediately, and went to great lengths to ensure it wouldn't happen again (in fact, I believe the entire state university system forbids a licensed sports agent from setting foot on campus, unless they happen to be attending classes).


The radio/TV local honks have talked to all sorts of street agents and former NCAA folks, and they all seem to think that unless some smoking gun magically appears that shows guys were handed piles of cayshe to commit, that little if anything will come of it -- maybe a coupel schollies docked for a couple of years. They certainly aren't harboring "a disturbing climate of a lack of institutional control," and aren't "repeat violators."


Also mentioned quite a bit -- every D1 school out there does the exact same thing. And the NCAA knows full well it's going on. One of the local honks made a great analogy -- the game you see Saturday afternoon is like a hot dog. You're at the ball game, and you really want a hot dog, and it tastes really good. But apart from enjoying the taste of the dog on a nice day, the other 6.5 days of the week, you really, really don't want to know how that hot dog was made, because you know it's nasty.

D1 ball is a multi-billion $ industry, and dinging Oregon for doing what the other 119 teams do (OK, maybe BYU doesn't) would pretty much result in a dismantling of their multi-billion $ industry.

And I get the impression that the NCAA is getting tired of Texas thinking they run the NCAA, and letting them get away with this petty little revenge trick because they had a bad season wouldn't do much to remind Texas who is in charge. And don't even try and tell me Texas isn't doing the exact same shit with street agents/"recruiting services." And they should probably tread really lightly, since that door can swing both ways. I seem to remember that the best HS player in Oregon in quite a while got bought up recruited by a Big12 team. Ain't like Texas doesn't come and talk to Oregon HS players, and I really hope that it comes back around to haunt them someday -- what a childish fucking move. What, did they hire Neuheisel as their AD or something?


Oregon will probably get a "harshly worded letter" and maybe a schollie or two, to send the message through D1 to not get carried away with the scumbags, but without exposing the NCAA's complicity in the scumminess.

[Mace]

Nice rationalization. Toejam should take notes.

[Dinsdale]

http://media.oregonlive.com/behindducks ... SS_001.pdf
25,000 for a service that CSS's website said was 15,000 dollars a week ago, they changed their prices yesterday (Mar 4, 2011)
invoice #1001, well at least they didnt use invoice #1 this time, Lyles was also smart enough to not charge sales tax in Oregon where there is no sales tax, especially for a service and not a product.
However the address that is used for Lyles invoice is an empty condo, hard to feel that an empty condo is going to pass the smell test as the office for a national scouting service

BTW-question for you, Toejam...

Which address did USC send their check to Lyles to after they signed "his" recruits?


You think the NCAA might want to see those invoices, too?


Might wanna pipe down there, whiner.

Is the NCAA going to want to see invoices from Auburn, Baylor, LSU, Oklahoma State, and Texas A&M as well, since they all wrote checks to Lyles after signing "his" guys?

[SoCalTrjn]

http://media.oregonlive.com/behindducks ... SS_001.pdf
25,000 for a service that CSS's website said was 15,000 dollars a week ago, they changed their prices yesterday (Mar 4, 2011)
invoice #1001, well at least they didnt use invoice #1 this time, Lyles was also smart enough to not charge sales tax in Oregon where there is no sales tax, especially for a service and not a product.
However the address that is used for Lyles invoice is an empty condo, hard to feel that an empty condo is going to pass the smell test as the office for a national scouting service

BTW-question for you, Toejam...

Which address did USC send their check to Lyles to after they signed "his" recruits?


You think the NCAA might want to see those invoices, too?


Might wanna pipe down there, whiner.

Is the NCAA going to want to see invoices from Auburn, Baylor, LSU, Oklahoma State, and Texas A&M as well, since they all wrote checks to Lyles after signing "his" guys?

USC never signed any of "Lyles" recruits, Lyles worked for a scouting service that did send USC some information on Joe McKnight but Joe's recruitment wasn't handled by Will Lyles, Will Lyles wasn't a mentor to Joe, Will Lyles was never Joe's guest at the College Football Awards. Maybe it is you who should get your story straight accusing USC of signing any of Lyle's recruits when it plain and simply never happened, it's a nice bit of deflection, though, Oregon is guilty of buying recruits and float fan points his finger at USC again. You cocksuckers have been trolling USC message boards for years shouting out cheater when the only school involved in pay for play is your own. I mean it makes sense, who the fuck in their right mind would choose to live in that shit hole of a state and play for a school who hasnt won the bowl game their conference champion goes to since 1917 unless they are getting paid to do so? 19 fucking 17.... going on 100 years since Nike U has won the granddaddy, no wonder you guys dont know how to handle success, its foreign to you cock stains

Lyles Domain Name Registered March 16, 2010

...Three weeks after he invoiced Oregon for the work he performed.

Why is this REAL bad news to Oregon?

NCAA bylaws state the recruiting service must make their services available to all institutions, publicly identify all applicable rates, and publicly identify the geographical scope of the service.

Pretty hard to offer your services to all institutions, AND make information public, when you don't even have a website up before invoicing Oregon.

One more observation about the URL from below. Whenever you see someone purchase a URL for only one year, That usually signifies it's a domain squatter ( not applicable here), or someone not too serious about their business venture.

I would guess the URL was purchased in order to satisfy NCAA bylaws, so that Oregon could pay them on March 29. I would almost bet dollars to doughnuts the website was NOT built by then, though.

13.14.3 Recruiting or Scouting Services. An institution may subscribe to a recruiting or scouting service involving prospective student-athletes, provided the institution does not purchase more than one annual subscription to a particular service and the service: (Adopted: 1/1/02, Revised: 1/16/10)

(a) Is made available to all institutions desiring to subscribe and at the same fee rate for all subscribers;

(b) Publicly identifies all applicable rates;

(d) Publicly identifies the geographical scope of the service (e.g., local, regional, national) and reflects broad-based coverage of the geographical area in the information it disseminates;

Here is the whois search results for: completescouting.com taken from go daddy:

http://who.godaddy.com/whois.aspx?k=ss4bavfc2tymnc n7xrmzmwdglme0dmq8&domain=completescouting.com &prog_id=godaddy

Registrant:
Willie Lyles
5010 Kelso St
Houston, Texas 77021-4345
United States

Registered through: Brinkster
Domain Name: COMPLETESCOUTING.COM
Created on: 16-Mar-10
Expires on: 16-Mar-11
Last Updated on: 16-Mar-10

Administrative Contact:
Lyles, Willie wlyles98@yahoo.com
5010 Kelso St
Houston, Texas 77021-4345
United States
+1.8326477586

Can we put to rest the notion the Oregon compliance department was all over this and is competent?

Seastrunks mom is going to give the NCAA all the information that they are going to need to bury the Ducks program
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregon ... _some.html

Now tell me float, how many players at USC is Lyles a mentor to?

[SoCalTrjn]

First off, if us Oregonians purchase anything by mail, we have to pay the sales tax of whatever state it was mailed from. So while there may be some things that make you go "HMMMMM," the sales tax isn't one of them. It lends legitimacy, if anything.

you do not charge sales tax on a service, there is no transfer of ownership of a property so there is no sales tax. the payroll company that I use for my employees does not charge us any sales tax on the service they provide, now if they sold us time clocks there would be sales tax on the clocks
According to Oregons coach, Chip Kelly all that the floats received was contact information and "access to players", not even game film was mentioned by the coach
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/oregon-pa ... ent-331607
but Im sure that Phil has someone in the basement at Nike preparing counterfeit videos with false time stamps and Lyles logo as you read this.

On Lyle's invoice, the numbers being thrown around are inaccurate. If you look, the $25K includes both the high school and JuCo packages, which were priced at $25K for the pair of them all along. They're just not, oddly enough, itemized on the invoice -- which isn't number #1001 (not sure where you got that), but rather #10012011, which would lead one to believe that there were many invoices written in 2010. Someone might be in trouble for not charging sales tax, BTW -- I think different states handle sales tax on shipped items differently, and Oregon has no control over that at all. But for your edification, we do indeed pay sales tax when we order stuff from out of state.

Lyles invoice was dated before his company even had its website up, a website that was likely made just to cover his and Oregons ass. What product did Lyles ship to Oregon, other than all those Texas players he is the mentor of I mean.

Oregon put a guy on their payroll to seduce a kids mom, gain her confidence and then allow the school to get the seduced moms kid signed on the dotted line. Was Will popping Lamichael James' mammas coochie too or was that another kid raised by his grandmama and mentored all the way to Oregon from Texas? Lamichael James, the kid with the 9,000 dollars in his checking account and no way of explaining where the money came from ::cough cough Nike cough::
Seastrunk's mother, Evelyn, said Thursday night that she didn't know Lyles received $25,000 from Oregon.

"Willie said he was a trainer," Evelyn Seastrunk said. "Now Oregon says he's a scout? Is he on Oregon's payroll? If Willie Lyles collected $25,000 off my son he needs to be held accountable. The NCAA must find out for me. I don't know how to digest someone cashing in on my son."

Why would Oregon issue a PO and require an invoice for dirty-payments? That doesn't make sense when there's boosters with that much in their wallet who could just hand over a wad of cash.

Perhaps they felt the best place to hide something was in plain site. Maybe they wanted a paper trail for 25,000 to Oregon instead of hidden cash payments for much much more.

The radio/TV local honks have talked to all sorts of street agents and former NCAA folks, and they all seem to think that unless some smoking gun magically appears that shows guys were handed piles of cayshe to commit, that little if anything will come of it -- maybe a coupel schollies docked for a couple of years. They certainly aren't harboring "a disturbing climate of a lack of institutional control," and aren't "repeat violators."

the 9 grand sitting in Lamichael James checking account thats origins are unknown isnt a pile of cash? what is james driving around Eugene? A Range Rover right? A Range Rover given to him from Pernell Jones, an Oregon season ticket holder, who said he traded the 2003 Range Rover for a 2000 Mustang when James said people were leaving notes on his car which scared him, of course he also had his jersey number and name in the rear window of the Mustang. Whats amazing is that the NCAA let that slide, theyre still looking in to the 9 grand but the car they let slide

Also mentioned quite a bit -- every D1 school out there does the exact same thing. And the NCAA knows full well it's going on. One of the local honks made a great analogy -- the game you see Saturday afternoon is like a hot dog. You're at the ball game, and you really want a hot dog, and it tastes really good. But apart from enjoying the taste of the dog on a nice day, the other 6.5 days of the week, you really, really don't want to know how that hot dog was made, because you know it's nasty.

How many other schools are paying scouts to seduce the moms of 5 star recruits from other states so that those scouts can provide the school with that recruit? How many other schools are paying the mentors of many of their out of state recruits to provide that school with the players the mentor is mentoring?

D1 ball is a multi-billion $ industry, and dinging Oregon for doing what the other 119 teams do (OK, maybe BYU doesn't) would pretty much result in a dismantling of their multi-billion $ industry.

USC failed to realize that a scout was paying a USC player to leave USC for the pros and be represented by that scout, that is something done at all the other schools, paying mentors to provide a school with players that would have no interest in the school if it wasnt for their mentor is not done at any other schools. Deflect all you want, you cant escape that fact. What other schools players are taking their mentors to awards shows, mentors on the payroll of the school the player wound up at?
USC did not gain any advantage from what went on with Reggie Bushs step dad and the agents he involved himself with, Reggie was already at USC when the agents came along. Oregon is paying a guy to provide them with players, they are gaining an advantage by doing so.
Are you going to try to argue that USC is less of a cog in that multi-billion dollar industry than Oregon is? Have you seen the TV ratings of the games USC is in compared to those that Oregon is in? the NCAA came down harder on USC for less of a crime against the other schools in D1, Phil better get his chcek book out if he is going to keep them from coming down even harder on Oregon.

And I get the impression that the NCAA is getting tired of Texas thinking they run the NCAA, and letting them get away with this petty little revenge trick because they had a bad season wouldn't do much to remind Texas who is in charge. And don't even try and tell me Texas isn't doing the exact same shit with street agents/"recruiting services." And they should probably tread really lightly, since that door can swing both ways. I seem to remember that the best HS player in Oregon in quite a while got bought up recruited by a Big12 team. Ain't like Texas doesn't come and talk to Oregon HS players, and I really hope that it comes back around to haunt them someday -- what a childish fucking move. What, did they hire Neuheisel as their AD or something?


Oregon will probably get a "harshly worded letter" and maybe a schollie or two, to send the message through D1 to not get carried away with the scumbags, but without exposing the NCAA's complicity in the scumminess.

If Oregon is not punished more heavily than USC was then there is certainly no justice in the NCAA. Look at all the schools and players who have had ties to agents come in to light in the last year or so, this is the first anyone has heard of a school paying a mentor of kids to seduce certain kids moms to gain their confidence and direct her son to a school that is paying the mentor and who the mentor is a booster of. Yes Lyles had contact with other players who wound up at other schools while he was employed at a Florida based scouting service but ask that service about how he parted ways with them and how many of the players he has mentored as a scout since leaving that company and going independent wound up at schools other than Oregon? Pay for Play, it has to be punished and severely, even considering your laughable assumption that Oregon means anything in the college football world

If everything is so up and up with Lyles and Flenory as zero fans would want us all to believe, why is it that none of the media outlets have been able to get a statement from them, Phil's lawyers keeping them quiet?

[SoCalTrjn]

This is the head quarters of Will Lyles corporation?
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=5010+Kels ... 6qbOsObsuA

Its a fucking shanty that doesnt even have a garage. From this shack this scum bag mentors Texas recruits and and sells them to Oregon?

Rumor is he hasnt paid property taxes on the place in 3 years either