American Military Pissing (into the wind) part 2

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:56 am

Or be the Afghani raghead who was beating his wife in full view of a Marine patrol and think they were not going to do anything ? That is one raghead who probably beat his last woman with solid bones in his arms..or

Be the dozen or so Iraqi "police" in uniform who drew down on 2 US Humvees on patrol..and made the mistake of doing it in view of 2 hides of Marine snipers..the "police" refused orders to lower their weapons and were summarily neutralized ...or

the Iraqi sniper who was using a stolen USMC sniper rifle..getting ready to use it on US troops when he was seen with the weapon in his hands aiming it..he was neutralized and the rifle was recovered.

Or the guy on the ridge line with a cell phone in his hand watching a Marine patrol move about a field...

Those kinds of "non combatants" ..going to weddings and firing in the air at helicopters..brilliant but understandable with those dog eaters.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:11 am

If you've never served in the military, you have no right to criticise troops that hurl grenades into schools and shoot pregnant women in the face.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:50 am

Martyred wrote:If you've never served in the ~~military~~ FBI, you have no right to criticise ~~troops~~ agents that {sic} hurl grenades into schools and shoot pregnant women in the face.

FTFY

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:55 am

Hmmm...food for thought...

:|

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:14 pm

Okay, the dutiful right-wing robots roll out the standard lock-step denial of Incompetence, and the same support of our "liberation" efforts. How utterly disgusting--and typical

And so...the residents of My Lai were probably wrong in being there when a bunch of pissed off jarheads rolled through their hamlet. And of course the "aviation assets" must be defended with ruthless disdain for anyone who might damage that pricey gear.

The problem is that even if you excuse the steady stream of accidental massacres and psychotic episodes of murder committed by American soldiers and our (tax-payer funded) private contractors, it's still gross incompetence about which our depraved military brass are forced to scandalously lie and initiate similarly clumsy cover-ups-- and occasionally--rarely-actually apologize to the grieving survivors. And the fact remains that we ultimately keep losing big wars. We've lost in Iraq, despite our horrific destruction visited upon that nation, and we've lost in Afghanistan--and can't even find a way out. It's as though we've not only lost, but are being bled out in some grotesque slow torture. Or what?

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:21 pm

Or what?

Our military won in Iraq. They won in Afghanistan. Militarily, this cannot be questioned.

What can be questioned is whether or not you have the slightest grasp on reality. The way you rattle off examples of Shit Happens as if they only happen at the hands of the American military, one has to wonder whether you possess even the most basic understanding of war.

See, Nick, anytime nations go to battle on any large scale, atrocities occur. Civilians die needlessly. Suicide rates run rampant. Cover-ups are legion. Soldiers snap and do crazy things. Mistakes are made, from the commanding generals to the logistics crews, all the way down to the buck private. Machinery fails to perform. Wrong turns are taken. Facts are reported erroneously, intentionally or otherwise.

All these things are par for the course. Pick a nation. Choose an army. Select a war. There will be no exceptions.

So how is it that you seem utterly flummoxed and downright apoplectic with feigned outraged by the military equivalent of the sun coming up each morning?

Did you only recently pick up your very first newspaper? Never cracked open a history book?

Seriously...are you eight years old?

Or what?

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:56 pm

You're desperately backpedaling on the definition of war--and just saying "shit happens," as though this somehow excuses the astonishing waste and criminality of our misguided military adventures.. The plain point and topic is the gross incompetence of our massive military machine. And the cases of Afghanistan and Iraq are clear examples. If we've "won in Iraq, why are we forced to leave without a puppet government installed (

) and without any further immunity for atrocities committed by our troops? Why do we have an Iraq now much more liable to become a Shiite nation? Why do they hate us throughout the region? Are you suggesting that because we can bomb a big city as well as small towns and villages that this in any way constitutes a "victory, " let alone a competent one?

Go ahead, explain how we've "won" in Afghanistan. Explain why we can't turn our backs on even the puppet "allies' to whom we're giving billions of dollars for fear they'll immediately shoot us. Explain why we're paying the Taliban. And go ahead, trot out some sort of "goal" or viable final exit plan. you can't because there is none. The fact is we're effectively trapped in a colossally expensive sinkhole Quagmire that is getting worse, not better. And this the longest war in our history. A total failure.

As for "everyone else does it," this is classically the weakest of arguments. In fact the stated purpose and principle of American militarism is to uphold a variety of stated virtues and ethical standards. Taking up arms against the marauding Japanese Imperial Army and the German Nazis was done in this spirit and we prevailed. Okay...so where is another example of an American war that had any honor or ethical premise. You can't because they're haven't been any. And this is why every single other American war has been violently opposed by the American people. This is the basis for the clear record of our actual military incompetence. You ignore this again as though our military is some football team simply to be deployed, etc. Sure, let's look in a history book :wink:

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:24 pm

Nick, it isn't merely that "everyone else does it." No, the point you always miss is that it's literally unavoidable. What you refer to as "incompetent" is simply the inevitable, and you're incapable of focusing on anything else. You get so bogged down in the pointless details that you miss the Big Picture every time.

Apparently you think war is supposed to be a cleanly played game of Stratego that should only be conducted between the darkest of evil forces on one side and the brightest of heaven's unsullied warriors on the other, the objectives always clearly defined. Everything must proceed strictly according to hoyle, with no deviations from the wonderfully righteous script.

It's fairly remarkable, actually. For such a dyed-in-the-wool cynic, you're so childishly idealistic.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:26 pm

Well, SS, who are these hypothetical jack-booted thugs? Since the fiasco of 1812 we've never been invaded, not even close. What kind of idiotic nonsense are you spewing? As for the bases we've had in Europe since WWII, there has/had similarly been no threat of the Soviets breaching the Yalta agreement, period. Indeed, when they rolled into Hungary in 1954, we didn't do a thing. Why? Because we agreed to let them rule Eastern Europe. And yes, all of the nations of Europe would be quite content to see us pull out our bases. Now go ahead and remind us of why the U.S. military needed to intervene over fifty times in Central and South America since the beginning of the 19th century.. Was there ever a threat of jack-booted thugs attacking America? Absolutely not. So...what the fuck are you talking about?..

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:40 pm

Van wrote:Nick, it isn't merely that "everyone else does it." No, the point you always miss is that it's literally unavoidable. What you refer to as "incompetent" is simply the inevitable, and you're incapable of focusing on anything else. You get so bogged down in the pointless details that you miss the Big Picture every time.

Apparently you think war is supposed to be a cleanly played game of Stratego that should only be conducted between the darkest of evil forces on one side and the brightest of heaven's unsullied warriors on the other, the objectives always clearly defined. Everything must proceed strictly according to hoyle, with no deviations from the wonderfully righteous script.

It's fairly remarkable, actually. For such a dyed-in-the-wool cynic, you're so childishly idealistic.

You're assuming all this based on nothing. I'm simply pointing out the ludicrous systemic nature of incompetence and waste and ass-backwards results of our gigantic military industry/machine. With the exception of the Soviet army invading Afghanistan, I doubt you could cite a nation whose armed forces so reject and resent every mission upon which they are deployed. You are constantly insisting that "war" is some abstract universal act of humanity with a basic "shit happens" design. This is completely idiotic. Of course a war launched by the U.S. should and must have very clear and honest premise, and have very clear objectives. Are you somehow disputing this? And in the case of every single war since WWII (but certainly including the Spanish-American War) this has not been the case at all. In fact they have almost all been fomented on total lies and false flags, such as the sinking of the Maine, the Tonkin Bay "incident," 9/11, and of course "weapons of mass destruction." That you refuse to look at each war individually and instead try to group them all together into some international experience which is "messy" is indeed childish. No surprise that you're desperately attempting to invert this basic attitude. Limpdick is exactly the same, btw. Good company you keep.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:56 pm

I'm not assuming anything. I'm correctly basing it on the countless examples of "incompetence" you've offered as supposed proof of our wildly successful armed forces' inability to wage war to your satisfaction. Between your stupid minutiae pissing in the wind and your insistence on framing wins and losses through the jaundiced eye of politics, you lose the plot every damn time.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:29 am

LTS TRN 2 wrote:Of course a war launched by the U.S. should and must have very clear and honest premise, and have very clear objectives. Are you somehow disputing this?

Real life doesn't work that way, you dumb asshole.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:41 am

I'm citing real life. I'm providing clear examples--big and small--to back up an obvious truth. You ass clowns are pretending that the heinous actions of seething neocon Zionazis in the past twenty years or so somehow comprise the normal order of geo-politics and warfare. Like Limpdick--reduced to having to actually talk for fifty minutes per hour since his gooey meltdown--you 're reduced to idle gibberish.

In fact, a clear honest premise for American military intervention--and a clearly stated goal--is the basic law of the land. Get a clue. And..how's Joisy Fat Boy looking? Wow, you guys are sad.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:02 am

LTS TRN 2 wrote:seething neocon Zionazis...Limpdick...blah blah blah....

Worthless.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:19 pm

Well, Limpdick is about done, but the seething Zionazis are in full froth. Or what? Are you really suggesting that this coalition of dual citizens and outright war mongers are not fomenting a new war as intensely as they can right now? Are you really ready to attempt to dismiss the plain fact of Zionazis having fomented the Iraq invasion? Are you really ready to defend anything you've muttered, because frankly you've had your ass handed to you about fifteen times in this thread. And you can deny this, but so what? Like Limpdick, you're just floating..

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:43 pm

LTS TRN 2 wrote:...you've had your as handed to you about fiftenn times in this thread.

scotch on the rocks

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:04 pm

Martyred wrote:
LTS TRN 2 wrote:...you've had your as handed to you about fiftenn times in this thread.
scotch on the rocks

No, B-juice, just dashing off a bromide and didn't bother to spell check ..Why should I?

As for drunk assholes representing the U.S. military and its systemic incompetence....uh...yeah..

BALANDI, Afghanistan — An American soldier opened fire on villagers near his base in southern Afghanistan Sunday and killed 16 civilians, according to President Hamid Karzai, who called it an "assassination" and furiously demanded an explanation from Washington. Nine children and three women were among the dead.

The killing spree deepened a crisis between U.S. forces and their Afghan hosts over Americans burning Muslim holy books on a base in Afghanistan last month. The Quran burnings sparked weeks of violent protests and attacks that left some 30 dead. Six U.S. service members have been killed by their Afghan colleagues since the burnings came to light, and the violence had just started to calm down.

"This is an assassination, an intentional killing of innocent civilians and cannot be forgiven," Karzai said in a statement. He said he has repeatedly demanded the U.S. stop killing Afghan civilians.

Stay sober and witty--and diligent in your grammatical policing--becauseyou are the backbone of this palsied farce of a site. Now is that pure sarcasm, or the sad truth? :doh:

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:16 pm

We need to set up a drinking game centered around Nick's repetitious use of "palsied forum," "seething neocon Zionazi," "Limpdick," "or what?" etc.

In short order everyone here would be more hammered than AP two hours into Dollar Beer Night at Applebee's.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:50 pm

And we were all to take a drink every time you punked out or dodged and curled up in a fetal position, we'd all be in rahab. But, so what?

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:29 pm

In point of fact, I never dodge. I do ignore your goalpost-moving drivel, however. On those rare occasions you stay on point, we do fine. It's only when you inevitably work yourself into a frenzied whirling dervish of feigned outrage over nonsensical shit no one else is talking about that I pull the plug and bail.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:04 pm

Oh really? And since when is the biggest waste of money in history "nonsensical shit'? Since when is the gutting of America's infrastructure for the benfit of a handful of rapacious military industrialists--and a cadre of seething racist Zionazis--somehow not pertinent and demanding of immediate attention? In short, what kind of boring and thoroughly tired old fuckstain are you to even suggest the merits or validity of anything I might call to attention? You've been totally hosed on your mewling attempts to spin or dismiss the galling record of America's militarism, and you've offered absolutely nothing but "shit happens"--even as the longest war in our history is right now going completely over a cliff. If you thought the videoing of pissing on dead Afghanis, or blatantly burning of Korans (!!!) was a pretty incompetent move on the part of an invading war machine seeking local hearts and minds, just wait about a week on this last horrific meltdown--some sorry sarge who'd thought he'd spread a little love.

Look, go listen to Jeff Lorber or Frank Gambale or whatever tedious fake shit you're into, and stop pretending to know or care about anything real. Really.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:19 pm

Wait. You mean Frank Gambale isn't real?

Just what sort of wicked sorcery is this?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:22 pm

LTS TRN 2 wrote:BALANDI, Afghanistan — An American soldier opened fire on villagers near his base in southern Afghanistan Sunday and killed 16 civilians, according to President Hamid Karzai,

Good for him. I'm sure he was just outraged because some goat molesting diaperhead defaced a copy of Field and Stream or perhaps drew some cartoons of Baby Jesus.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:43 am

You mean they were..sluts? So..they had it coming?..and we need to keep going?

Of course keep going..what else are you going to do?..say, where's my horse? Uh oh

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:58 am

It's just another case of workplace violence, Felchie. It happens all the time. I don't know why you're so hysterical over it.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:38 pm

Just a bad day at the office, eh? Just another bump in the road to American Exceptionalism on the move.

Okay, you're in some sort of idiotic fake joke mode, whatever. So what if a lot of American grunts are going to get murdered in revenge for this little "workplace incident"? Certainly not a puss bag like you.

Excuse me, but why are the locals hacking up the Duke...? Don't they know we're here to help?

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:01 pm

When we suggest a systemic failure to the U.S. military machine, we refer to the foundation itself, which is the sprawling bases around the nation which pump out the soldiers charged with carrying out the wars and assaults. And...when we speak of an essential dysfunction in this regard, we're of course speaking of this charm school up in Washington state..

Lewis-McChord was called the U.S. military’s “most troubled base” in 2010 by the military’s Stars and Stripes newspaper.

Among the cases cited by the newspaper was the killing of three Afghans in separate incidents in 2010 involving troops from the base. Four soldiers pleaded or were found guilty, and seven others were convicted of lesser crimes from drug use to assaulting soldiers, Army Major Christopher Ophardt said yesterday in an e-mail.

Army spokesman George Wright at the Pentagon said in response to an e-mail inquiry that he didn’t have details about how crimes committed by soldiers based at Lewis-McChord compared with those at other facilities.

Suicides at the base rose to 12 last year from nine each in 2009 and 2010, Ophardt said. The Army Medical Command is investigating whether the base’s medical center improperly reversed post-traumatic stress disorder diagnoses in soldiers.

Is it something in the water? The gloomy weather? Secret psy-op experiments? Whatever, something's very wrong, and we're losing huge extremely expensive fake wars because of it? Or...is it just because we're wrong? :doh:

WW

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:12 pm

^^^^^^

Do you really think any one actually reads your shit drivel anymore ? Fuckin boring time wasting shit...

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:47 pm

Well, I do...sometimes.

Anyway, who's this "we" you speak of, Nick? Got a tinfoil hat-sportin' gerbil up your ass?

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:32 am

It's the "we" of wakened America. Not the "you assholes" who remain curled in denial (and a very fake desperate defiance--D-ron :wink: ) "We" are the families whose sons have returned damaged, dangerous, and soon dead. And "we've" had enough of the scare 'n spend system of of the Military/Industrial/congressional complex. Now....how long are you going to stupidly slumber like selfish children?

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:47 am

I do like your avatar.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:53 pm

Of course you do. And you like tedious noodling by really boring technical guitarists. And...you probably like picnics with other boring folk who talk about dull routine blah blah...as you wonder why life is such a boring non-mysterious trudge to the grave. You see, you guys really don't have any opinions on any interesting or serious subjects. You're all rather dead. Is it a GOP thing? Well, in honor of those who have paid for your slumberous sloth with their lives--and that's the wide swath of victims of America's AIPAC-hijacked military machine--well, you're going to have to wake the fuck up.

Now, today's little lesson on the American military's general systemic incompetence focuses not so much on a grunt getting fragged, but on the automatic cover-up and lying on the part of the pentagon. (btw, you still haven't checked out the sheer duplicity surrounding the Pat Tilmann fragging, have you?)

WASHINGTON — An Afghan soldier shot to death a 22-year-old Marine at an outpost in southwestern Afghanistan last month in a previously undisclosed case of apparent Afghan treachery that marked at least the seventh killing of an American military member by his supposed ally in the past six weeks, Marine officials said.

Lance Cpl. Edward J. Dycus of Greenville, Miss., was shot in the back of the head on Feb. 1 while standing guard at an Afghan-U.S. base in the Marja district of Helmand province. The exact circumstances have not been disclosed, but the Dycus family has been notified that he was killed by an Afghan soldier. Marine officials discussed the matter on condition of anonymity because it is still under investigation.

When the Pentagon announced Dycus' death the day after the shooting, it said he died "while conducting combat operations" in Helmand. It made no mention of treachery, which has become a growing problem for U.S. and allied forces as they work closely with Afghan forces to wind down the war.

WW

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:15 pm

LTS TRN 2 wrote:Of course you do. And you like tedious noodling by really boring technical guitarists.

Yep. Always been a huge McLaughlin fan.

And...you probably like picnics with other boring folk who talk about dull routine blah blah...as you wonder why life is such a boring non-mysterious trudge to the grave.

Depends. Is she naked and attractive, and is the boring talk just a knowing subterfuge?

You see, you guys really don't have any opinions on any interesting or serious subjects.

You mean like the skipping-record opinions you've thoroughly managed to enthrall everyone with lo these past ten years? Those mind-numbingly "interesting" opinions?

You're all rather dead. Is it a GOP thing? Well, in honor of those who have paid for your slumberous sloth with their lives--and that's the wide swath of victims of America's AIPAC-hijacked military machine--well, you're going to have to wake the fuck up.

Now, today's little lesson on the American military's general systemic incompetence focuses not so much on a grunt getting fragged, but on the automatic cover-up and lying on the part of the pentagon.

That's not an American military thing. That's an every-country-in-the-world's military thing. Horrible things have always happened during war, and governments have always covered them up.

Seriously, who truly needs to wake up here? What sort of fantasy world do you live in where any of these stories come as news, much less news to engender such feigned outrage?

(btw, you still haven't checked out the sheer duplicity surrounding the Pat Tilmann fragging, have you?)

I've read the stories, yes. Sorry, but again, during war Shit Happens. And when it does, governments engage in cover-up propaganda. It's as old as the hills.

WASHINGTON — An Afghan soldier shot to death a 22-year-old Marine at an outpost in southwestern Afghanistan last month in a previously undisclosed case of apparent Afghan treachery that marked at least the seventh killing of an American military member by his supposed ally in the past six weeks, Marine officials said.

Lance Cpl. Edward J. Dycus of Greenville, Miss., was shot in the back of the head on Feb. 1 while standing guard at an Afghan-U.S. base in the Marja district of Helmand province. The exact circumstances have not been disclosed, but the Dycus family has been notified that he was killed by an Afghan soldier. Marine officials discussed the matter on condition of anonymity because it is still under investigation.

When the Pentagon announced Dycus' death the day after the shooting, it said he died "while conducting combat operations" in Helmand. It made no mention of treachery, which has become a growing problem for U.S. and allied forces as they work closely with Afghan forces to wind down the war.

And?

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:39 pm

So your standard reply is "shit happens" in war, period. And thus all manner of berserk suicides and massacres, fraggings by our allies, illegal wars fomented by a Zionazi race-state experiment, the pentagon routinely lying and covering up heinous scandals, and of course murdering hundreds of thousands of foreign civilians and not even bothering to keep count...all of this is just "normal" for a war, regardless of era, context, or the nations involved. Well, that is categorically moronic in its simplistic idiocy. More, its a complete dodge--just a blanket to pull over your head as you try to avoid the truth.

"And?" You're really asking that?

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:48 pm

That is the truth, which I'm freely admitting, so how on earth is it a "dodge"? All I'm saying is that it happens, it's always happened, and it always will happen...so?

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:06 pm

First, no it isn't the norm at all in any country. And that's the point of this whole thread. It is our bloated military machine--biggest in history by far--which by virtue of its shameless use as an engine of Corporate profiteering--and its ensuing reckless and grossly irresponsible deployment--has resulted in the most incompetent and counterproductive agency in history--and it's getting worse. This is presently an extremely crucial matter because the sheer incompetence is threatening our nation's economy, as well as the world's geo-political stability. When you see these generals and pentagon brass squirming as to the "exit strategy" for Afghanistan, or "what the fuck just happened" as we back out of a destroyed Iraq, or as we all sit on edge as the Zionazis desperately ratchet up the pressure for an attack on Iran, well your "shit happens' default response becomes pathetic and cowardly. No one's expecting you to actually do anything, but just waking up is an important step. So, now you have a choice. You can acknowledge that you're awake and aware of the massive scam which needs redressing, or you can continue to insist that you're asleep. :wink:

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:10 pm

No, 'Spray, you missed the joke. Nick loves McLaughlin. We both do. I'm just teasing him by saying his description of "tedious noodling by really boring technical guitarists" is every bit as true of McLaughlin as it is for the two guys to whom he's directing that statement, Guthrie Govan and Allan Holdsworth.

I mean, c'mon, compared to McLaughlin's seemingly pointless meanderings, Guthrie Govan is Eric fucking Clapton.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:20 pm

Nooooo! Not Govan again. I'll not take the bait. I won't! But I hear Steve Lukather has a new instructional video out--with a signing session at Showcase, so you'll want to book a flight asap.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:23 pm

LTS TRN 2 wrote:First, no it isn't the norm at all in any country.

Wrong. As long as war has been waged, 'leaders' have fucked up, soldiers have gone haywire, armies have committed atrocities, and governments have attempted to sweep it all beneath the rug.

No exceptions. The only difference is access. We now have the ability to learn of these things in ways and timeframes that were not available to previous generations.

And that's the point of this whole thread.

Which has been nothing but fake outrage from the start. You know full well—or at least you'd better know—that every example you've given in this thread of U.S. military incompetency is simply shit that's par for the course in any war.

If you truly think otherwise, my god, you've more of a lightweight Pollyanna than bradhusker rhapsodizing about Elvis's blessed taint.

What would really be clever is for you to do something other than wring your hands over these incidents and actually propose a way to prevent them. If you can figure out a way for war to be conducted cleanly and without mishap—morally, technically, militarily or otherwise—then, by all means, please set forth your plan for Bitchin' Battle.

Telling us that we shouldn't have been there in the first place is not even worth stating. You'll need to come up with something a bit more constructive.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:26 pm

Lukather's tone in recent years is nails on a chalkboard to me. Pass.