Solar System PET

[atomicdad]

So Mikey, how are you going to feel if Sempra/SDGE successfully petitions the CPUC and are allowed to "unravel" the transmission cost and generation cost for electricity?

[smackaholic]

So where are your panels coming from, Mikey?

The U.S. Commerce Department on Thursday assessed penalties against solar panels imported from China, the latest move in a sun power trade dispute.

The decision was viewed as a victory by solar panel manufacturers, including Helios USA in Milwaukee, but was criticized by a coalition of installers and inverter manufacturers who said it would drive up the price of solar panels for consumers.

The finding follows up on a similar move in March in unfair trade practices complaints filed by domestic solar panel manufacturers like Helios. They charged the Chinese were unfairly dumping panels in the U.S. at prices below the cost of production.

Helios makes panels that are more efficient than typical solar panels because they can generate more power using the same amount of space. The firm was expanding last year, until a flood of imported panels in the market prompted it to cancel one of its production shifts.

Tariffs proposed Thursday range from 31% for several key panel makers, including Suntech and Trina, as well as duties of up to 250% on certain other Chinese solar panel manufacturers.

In addition, the Commerce Department decided that the tariffs should be retroactive, meaning they will apply to Chinese panels over the last three months.

The decision represents a victory for SolarWorld USA of Oregon, which led the fight, as well as other domestic solar manufacturers.

According to an analyst interviewed by Bloomberg News prior to the ruling, any tariff of at least 10% could be considered a victory for domestic manufacturers.

The domestic solar manufacturers released a statement praising the preliminary ruling.

“Commerce’s ruling in the SolarWorld case is a bellwether decision,” said Steve Ostrenga, chief executive of Helios. “It underscores the importance of domestic manufacturing to the U.S. economy and will help determine whether the country will be a global competitor in clean technologies or outsource them China. It is also critically important for thousands of U.S. workers.”

But a coalition of installers and other groups lobbied against the move, saying it would escalate prices and reduce sales of inverters made by U.S. firms.

“Today SolarWorld received one of its biggest subsidies yet – an average 31% tax on its competitors,” said Jigar Shah, president of the Coalition for Affordable Solar Energy, in a statement. “What’s worse, it will ultimately come right out of the paychecks of American solar workers.”

Well, that's a start. Too bad we don't hit those fukks with tariffs on everything else.

[Mikey]

So Mikey, how are you going to feel if Sempra/SDGE successfully petitions the CPUC and are allowed to "unravel" the transmission cost and generation cost for electricity?

Wow. Atomicdad. Where have you been?

Actually, it's only fair that they are able to do it. If you're net metering you're still connected to the grid. That means that the utility still has to maintain your connection for transmission in both directions. Without some kind of storage you're still using their wires for all of your electricity when the sun isn't shining. On the other hand, when you're self-generating it reduces the peak load on the grid and consequently reduces the requirement for generation as well as transmission capacity on the system.

The combined effect may or may not be a wash, depending on how you look at it, but I won't really mind paying an extra $10 a month or whatever. If it gets too high I might have to add a few more panels and some batteries and tell them to suggest nicely that they GFY.

[atomicdad]

Where have you been?

Would you believe they block this site out at Donovan?

[Mikey]

Is that where you live now?

[atomicdad]

Nahh, just figured you would get that one.

Just curious how you felt about Sempra's counter to the rising interest, not quite proliferation of PV's, by charging for the use of the grid. I've considered doing the same, but I have a small stand of redwoods in my backyard that give me plenty of shade and would not be conducive for a home solar system.

I agree, PV users should pay a token amount for the transmission use but not at the amount they are/were trying to get. I guess you need to be on the right side of the Sempra coin, Privatize profits and subsidize liabilities.

[Mikey]

Not much progress this week. No change since Monday.
They've been waiting on some special order part that they need to join a 16 foot 4x8 with a 13 foot 4x8 end to end at each of the two posts in the middle of the span.

[Left Seater]

Not much progress this week. No change since Monday.
They've been waiting on some special order part that they need to join a 16 foot 4x8 with a 13 foot 4x8 end to end

Since when have nails been special order? :P

[Mikey]

They had to find some with square heads.

[Mikey]

Finally...got most of the frame up today.

[Mikey]

Good progress today. The structure is probably 90% done. Hoping to have solar PV power by the end of next week.
Plus, the shade structure will give us a place for a really nice outdoor dining room. Thanks mostly to smackoholic and his misdirected tax $$.

[smackaholic]

Don't mention it, slim.

[Moving Sale]

Let’s see.

So of the seven subjects that were on the table (taxes, weather, economy, charity, Topography, eye looking and the housing market) you decided to respond to four (Taxes, weather, economy and topography) so I’m up 3-0 by default. You conceded weather so it’s 4-0 with 3 to go. I’ll give you taxes so it’s 4-1. If you really want to get your ass kicked on Topography we can go there, but do you really want to? (an hr PLANE flight? I laughed) So we are left with economy and that we can go round and round on, but even if you were to win that you are still down 4-2 and getting your ass handed to you on Topography.

And my original point is that you were blowing wind out your ass when you said you would hate to live in an oven because you live in much worse and you seem to like it.

[smackaholic]

Let’s see.

So of the seven subjects that were on the table (taxes, weather, economy, charity, Topography, eye looking and the housing market) you decided to respond to four (Taxes, weather, economy and topography) so I’m up 3-0 by default. You conceded weather so it’s 4-0 with 3 to go. I’ll give you taxes so it’s 4-1. If you really want to get your ass kicked on Topography we can go there, but do you really want to? (an hr PLANE flight? I laughed) So we are left with economy and that we can go round and round on, but even if you were to win that you are still down 4-2 and getting your ass handed to you on Topography.

And my original point is that you were blowing wind out your ass when you said you would hate to live in an oven because you live in much worse and you seem to like it.

How's about you put together a dissertation on what the best color is, you tedious dwarf.

Lefty lives in Teehas cause he fukkin' wants to. As a pilot, I suspect he has the option of living elsewhere.

[Mikey]

Ready for the PV panels. The ends of the 4x8s still need to be finished but the panels should go up today. They said we may even get final inspection tomorrow.

(before I get any facetious comments about the canopy being in the shade, this pic was taken at 6:30 pm)

[Moving Sale]

Lefty lives in Teehas cause he fukkin' wants to.

If you could read you would see that what he said was he would hate living in a oven and that tx is as bad as an oven, which means he hates living there, or he was blowing smoke in his original post, which basically make him a liar.

[smackaholic]

Lefty lives in Teehas cause he fukkin' wants to.

If you could read you would see that what he said was he would hate living in a oven and that tx is as bad as an oven, which means he hates living there, or he was blowing smoke in his original post, which basically make him a liar.

Perhaps you've heard of that magic box that sits next to the house and sucks all the heat out of it, making it decidely unovenlike inside. Being a rich republican, he prolly has one.

[Goober McTuber]

Perhaps you've heard of that magic box that sits next to the house and sucks all the heat out of it, making it decidely unovenlike inside. Being a rich republican, he prolly has one.

Interesting. Lefty has a magic box that sucks, and I have one that blows. Your posts typically do both.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Lefty has a magic box that sucks, and I have one that blows.

Why do you call your wife magic box... because she makes so many cocks disappear?

[Mikey]

Panels are all up, everything's wired. Just waiting for final inspection.

Still need to finish the ends of the 4x8s but that won't keep us turning the fucker on.

[Mikey]

So, we finally got interconnected to the grid on Thursday afternoon.

Here's the final structure. I guess I'm gonna have to get new patio furniture to justify it.






Here's yesterday's (Saturday) production. I'm having some problems with the powerline communication between the inverters and the monitoring unit. That's why you don't see a smooth curve in the morning.




Here's my 15 minute interval data from San Diego Gax and Electric, also from Saturday. This shows net usage (PV output minus what we used in the house). That big spike around 5 pm was when I was burning some throwaway salmon in our electric oven.

We produced almost 5 kWh more than we used yesterday. We'll get credited for that in the winter when we use more than we produce.




Thanks again to Smackaholic and all the rest of you who paid for my patio cover that also makes electricity. I prolly couldn't have done this without your generous contributions.

[smackaholic]

Don't mention it, mike.

I guess this makes us about even for my two shamless boondoggle trips to pearl harbor in the Navy's (and your) dime.

So, how many days a year will you run a surplus? Can you stay in the black with more than about 7 seconds of AC use? I would think that thing blows through that 5kw awfully fast.

[mvscal]

Can you stay in the black with more than about 7 seconds of AC use?

You have to go inland to use that much AC in California.

[Mikey]

We don't use all that much AC, though probably more than if we lived closer to the coast. We're about 15 miles inland.

We sized the system, based on our electric use from the past couple of years and on the predicted annual production (weather dependent, obviously) to offset about 80% to 85% of our annual use. This should keep us well within the Tier 1 rates here.

If you wonder what Tier 1 means, we get a certain "baseline" allowance per day and, over the month, if you exceed that you go into Tier 2, Tier 3 and up to Tier 4.

On our last bill the first 346 kWh were at "baseline" Tier 1 ($0.14/kWh), from 346 to 450 was Tier 2 ($0.16/kWh), from 450 to 692 was Tier 3 ($0.24/kWh) and over 692 was Tier 4 ($0.26/kWh). We used a total of 1,091 kWh.

Those top two tiers are what really kill you, but they're also where you get the best payback from a PV system.

[Left Seater]

Got to love these Tier systems of charging us. They use the tiers to try to get you to conserve from power to water,etc.

I don't mind that much because there are only two of us in the house. But of course some do. There is a push among the poor here to get the tiered rates changed to something based on the number of people in the household. They thing each person should get a certain amount of power or water at the tier 1 rate each day. They say it is unfair that since they have 8 people living in one dwelling they will always be in the highest tier each month. They also complain that they are unable to afford things like new more efficient appliances that reduce consumption.

So let's see poor family, you use three times more power in a month than I do, but you want to pay for it at a lower rate than me because why? It isn't my fault you had 6 kids, are running window units, have more TVs than Indy, and use the oven to heat the house in winter because your gas was cut off, but you still want me to pay for it.

[smackaholic]

Got to love these Tier systems of charging us. They use the tiers to try to get you to conserve from power to water,etc.

I don't mind that much because there are only two of us in the house. But of course some do. There is a push among the poor here to get the tiered rates changed to something based on the number of people in the household. They thing each person should get a certain amount of power or water at the tier 1 rate each day. They say it is unfair that since they have 8 people living in one dwelling they will always be in the highest tier each month. They also complain that they are unable to afford things like new more efficient appliances that reduce consumption.

So let's see poor family, you use three times more power in a month than I do, but you want to pay for it at a lower rate than me because why? It isn't my fault you had 6 kids, are running window units, have more TVs than Indy, and use the oven to heat the house in winter because your gas was cut off, but you still want me to pay for it.

Racist.

I 'spose you want them to positively identify themselves when they vote, too.

[Mikey]

It makes the energy hawgs pay more, which isn't such a bad thing. It also makes every kWh saved worth more than the average of what you're using, which encourages conservation.

The tiers here are based on two things: geography and heating fuel.

We have coastal, inland, mountain and desert climate zones. Mountain gets the biggest baseline for some reason, followed by desert, inland and coastal. We're just about on the border of coastal and inland, luckily we qualify as inland - and it's a lot hotter at our house in the summer than it is at the beach.

The thing is, most people in the SDG&E service territory have natural gas heat, and if not natural gas then electric. You get a much bigger baseline for electric heat because they figure that you have an all electric house, and no gas service available. We don't have gas service but we pay up the ass for bulk propane for space heating and water heating. All of our kitchen appliances are electric, and the oven uses about as much power as an arc furnace at a medium sized steel plant.

So, in our 2600 sf house (including pool pump) with all electric kitchen, we get the same baseline as somebody in an 800 sf condo with all gas applicances. I'm not complaining, just pointing out the facts. Besides, I'll NEVER go over the baseline again.

[smackaholic]

Why truck in expensive as hell propane for that stuff? I could see doing it for your stove since there are advantages to cooking with gas over electrons, but, for heat/water? Seems like electricity would make more sense, particularly since you now grow your own.

[Left Seater]

It makes the energy hawgs pay more, which isn't such a bad thing. It also makes every kWh saved worth more than the average of what you're using, which encourages conservation.

But does it? Here we don't have those geographical zones. It is just tiered based on consumption. My wife and I use far more power per person than the above example cited on the news a few weeks ago, but we pay far less than they do in total dollars.

The above example wants to change the tiers so that my wife and I would pay more per person than they do.

[Moving Sale]

The above example wants to change the tiers so that my wife and I would pay more per person than they do.

It's a 'free' market. STFU and pay your bill or take your biz someplace else. Geez you right wingers are a bitchy bunch.

[Mikey]

Charges are based on the household, not on the number of people. I can think of two reasons for this, and there are probably more.

1) How is the utility supposed to know how many people live in a household? You could tell them any number and they would have no way to verify.
2) It costs them pretty much the same to deliver elecricity (I'm talking about delivery, not energy) to a house with one person or 15 people. One house, one wire. Unless, of course, they're using so much they need to upgrade the wires and local transformer. In that case the homeowner would probably be liable to pay for the upgrade.