You have the LTS Tard type and you have

[The Seer]

Let us confess it: Many of the things that are bothersome in the world today originate in the Middle East. Billions of air passengers each year take off their belts and shoes at the airport, not because of fears of terrorism from the slums of Johannesburg or because the grandsons of displaced East Prussians are blowing up Polish diplomats. We put up with such burdens because a Saudi multimillionaire, Osama bin Laden, and his unhinged band of Arab religious extremists began ramming airliners into buildings and murdering thousands.

The Olympics have become an armed camp, not because the Cold War Soviets once stormed Montreal or the Chinese have threatened Australia, but largely because Palestinian terrorists butchered Israelis in Munich 40 years ago and established the precedent that international arenas were ideal occasions for political mass murder.

There is no corn or wheat cartel. There are no cell-phone monopolies. Coal prices are not controlled by global price-fixers. Yet OPEC adjusts the supply of oil in the Middle East to ensure high prices, mostly for the benefit of Gulf sheikhdoms and assorted other authoritarian governments.

Catholics don’t assassinate movie directors or artists who treat Jesus Christ with contempt. Jewish mobs will not murder cartoonists should they ridicule the Torah. Buddhists are not calling for global blasphemy laws. But radical Muslims, mostly in the Middle East, have warned the world that Islam alone is not to be caricatured — or else. Right-wing fascists and red Communists have not done as much damage to the First Amendment as have the threats from the Arab Street.

The world obsesses over Israel and the Palestinians because of the neurotic Middle East. The issue is not really the principle of a divided capital — or Nicosia would be daily news. Nor is the concern over refugees per se, since well over 500,000 Jews were religiously cleansed from the major Arab capitals following the 1948 and 1967 wars. No one cares where they went or how they have fared in the decades since. Is the global worry really over occupied territories? Hardly. Lately it seems that every desolate island between China and Japan is equally contested. Are there special envoys to the Falklands, and do the islanders receive international aid? Will there be a U.N. session devoted to the Kuril Islands? Does Gdansk/Danzig merit summits? We are told ad nauseam that the Arab minority in Israel suffers — would that the ignored Coptic minority in Egypt had similar protections and freedoms.

The oil-rich Middle East is just different from other regions. We don’t expect another Cal Tech to sprout in Cairo in the way it might in either Bombay or Beijing. Nor do we assume that a cure for prostate cancer could ever emerge from Tripoli as it might from Tel Aviv. The world will not be flooded by Syrian-made low-cost, durable products that make our lives better — comparable to what comes from South Korea. There will be not a Saudi or Algerian version of a Kia. High-speed machine lathes will not be exported from Pakistan as they are from Germany. I doubt that engineers in Afghanistan or Yemen will replace our iPads. The Middle East’s efforts in the production of biofuels will not rival Brazil’s. Libya will not send archaeologists to the American Southwest to help investigate Native American sites.

In other words, in politically incorrect terms, the world tacitly gives exemptions to the Middle East — and expects very little in return. It assumes that the rules that apply elsewhere of civility, tolerance, and nonviolence are inoperative there — and perhaps have reason to so be. Money is made in the Middle East either by pumping out oil that others have found and developed or, less frequently these days, by catering for tourists who wish to see the remains of what others built centuries earlier. Few foreigners decide to spend a relaxing week in Egypt, or to sunbathe on the beaches of Gaza, or to enjoy the wine and cheese of Libya, or to snorkel in the waters off Syria, or to study engineering in Algiers. How many tourists choose to mountaineer in Afghanistan or visit Persepolis or unwind in Pakistan?

The world also assumes a sort of Middle Eastern parasitism: Daily its millions use mobile phones, take antibiotics, hit the Internet, fire RPGs, and play video games, and yet they not only do not create these products that they rely upon, but largely have antipathy for those who do.

Asymmetry is, of course, assumed. One expects to be detained for having a Bible in one’s baggage at Riyadh, whereas a Koran in a tote bag is of no importance at the Toronto airport. The Egyptian immigrant in San Francisco, or the Pakistani who moves to London, expects to be allowed to demonstrate against the freewheeling protocols of his hosts, while a Westerner protesting against life under sharia in the streets of Karachi or Gaza would earn a death sentence. What is nauseating about this is not the hypocrisy per se, but the Middle Eastern insistence that there is no such hypocrisy. We expect the immigrant from Egypt to deface public posters and call it freedom of expression; we expect Mr. Morsi, who enjoyed American freedom while he studied for his Ph.D. and then taught for three years in California, to deny it to others and trash his former host.

So how do we make sense out of this abject nonsense? Superficially, it occurs because the world is cowardly, and we accept that terrorism is far more likely to emanate from the Middle East than elsewhere. Principles or tastes do not explain why movies mock Christ and not Mohammed. Fear does, and all sorts of empty pontifications must dress up the necessary compensatory selectivity.

Self-interest explains a lot too. It is not just that nearly half the world’s oil comes from the Middle East. The money paid for it means enormous opportunity for recycling profits. An American university that would oust a student for uncivil speech at home has no problem with rampant anti-Semitism and religious intolerance in its Middle Eastern affiliate — as long as the students pony up $60,000 in annual petrodollar-fed tuition and expenses.

The present low-down age counts as well. The West is not as it was right after World War II, when it was not shy about defending its values and believed that the future of democracy and free markets it offered would mean liberty and security for hundreds of millions. Today, utopian pacifism, multiculturalism, and moral relativism arise out of self-doubt and fears of decline — at precisely the time when radical Islam is more confident than ever before that its own less liberal future is assured.

The paradox is not just that the well-off in London, Paris, and Washington are diffident, while the impoverished in Cairo and Tehran are fanatic, but that there comes also a certain sick awe in the self-loathing West for those who can at least be zealous in their self-righteousness, however repellent in the abstract that may be. One could see all this in Piers Morgan’s CNN interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: The more the latter spouted his anti-Semitic and anti-Western hatred and homophobia, the more the liberal former seemed mesmerized by such surety — in a way he most surely is not by Sarah Palin’s mild conservatism.

Finally, what accounts for Middle Eastern neuroticism? A sense of collective inferiority, a feeling that life is pretty miserable, when it need not be — and that the causes are foreign rather than homegrown. Exasperated Arab secular intellectuals sometimes confess that tribalism in place of meritocracy, statism in place of free markets, authoritarianism in place of consensuality, religious fundamentalism in place of tolerance, censorship in place of transparency, and gender apartheid in place of sexual equality combine in the Middle East to ensure poverty and violence.

The latest round of radical Islam arose — in the manner of Nazism in the 1930s, Communism in the 1940s, and Baathism and pan-Arabism in the 1960s — not to address the self-inflicted causes of such failure, but to indict others: Jews, Western democracies and Western capitalists, non-Arabs and heretics, and, above all, powerful Americans. The whines and lamentations gain credence when the Arab Street watches NBC and CNN, when the engineering student attends an American social-science class, when Hollywood endlessly shows the world the evil CIA agent behind the latest Middle Eastern scandal or the white male CEO whose company’s pollution causes cancer. Western self-loathing is offered as proof of Western culpability. Radical Islam then steps in, assuring the Middle Eastern Street that an absence of piety explains why a once-great civilization now bows to decadent Western infidels: The more a believer memorizes the Koran, supposedly the less power the Westerner has over him, and thus the less the beloved iPhone he uses each day can corrupt him.

What can be done? A psychiatrist treating a delusional neurotic attempts to bring him slowly back to reality. In the case of the Middle East, that would mean in the long term defending vigorously the values of free speech, tolerance, and constitutional government — and not giving exemptions on the basis of fear or multicultural relativism. More practically, the US must develop fully all its energy supplies — coal, nuclear, natural gas, oil, and alternative fuels — to reduce the strategic importance of the Middle East in US foreign policy. At some point we must be honest: The American self-righteous green zealot who opposes almost all production of new finds of natural gas is not just the fanatical bookend of the Middle Eastern Islamist, but also the means by which the latter gains money and clout.

In the short term, reciprocity would be wise. If violence should continue against American personnel and facilities, we can gradually trim foreign aid, advise Americans not to visit Egypt or Libya, put holds on visas for students from Middle Eastern countries that do not protect Americans or that contribute to terrorism, recall our ambassadors and expel theirs. Reopening our embassy in Damascus and dubbing Bashar Assad a “reformer” did not improve relations with Syria or temper Syrian extremism. A reduced security profile in Libya did not create good will for our ambassador. Two billion dollars in aid to Egypt did not win hearts and minds. The Palestinians are not fond of us, despite millions of dollars in annual aid.

Having Mr. Morsi on the USC campus did not bank good will for the future, any more than, long ago, Sayyid Qutb’s subsidized travel throughout America earned us a soft spot in the heart of the Muslim Brotherhood. I don’t see how welcoming in Egyptian journalist Mona Eltahawy and giving her airtime on CNN and MSNBC has enriched the United States by providing us a keener understanding of Egypt — not when she uses spray paint to deface public posters that she personally finds objectionable.

To sum up, the West should just say, “No.”

©2012 Victor Davis Hanson

[mvscal]

Another epic blast from VDH. I would highly recommend his history of the Peloponnesian War, A War Like No Other, to those who might be interested in such subjects.

[LTS TRN 2]

Victor David Hanson? What, Norman Podhoretz wasn't available? I mean if you're going to roll out neocon canon why not just just download a whole tract of unreadable drivel? Oh...you did! My bad.

Okay, to destroy this ass-clown in one easy sweep, let's bear in mind that he bases his entire diatribe on his claim...

"We put up with such burdens because a Saudi multimillionaire, Osama bin Laden, and his unhinged band of Arab religious extremists began ramming airliners into buildings and murdering thousands."

The problem is that Bin Laden completely denied having anything to do with it--when taking credit for the attack would have been his greatest triumph and a tremendous coup for his organization. There is no evidence whatsoever that he was involved. The so-called "confession tape video" is a complete joke which has been debunked up and down by a variety of experts. You'll notice that it's completely disappeared and is never trotted out. Like the intelligence about Iraq from the "eyewitness" as known as "curveball," the Bin Laden "confession" doesn't even exist.

Here's what Bin Laden actually told the BBC--and of course it was not reported here.

"I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States."


So Hanson and his rabidly insane neocon hive are trudging along, dutifully pumping out the sort of mendacious bilge which apparently quenches your very nervous fears. How disgusting.

[The Seer]

LTS arguments vs. VDH is kinda like comparing Einstein to an amoeba....

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Hanson and Felchco are ideologically similar.

Paranoid, protectionist and strangely xenophobic.

They're both also a decade too late with their "clash of civilisations" blather for anyone to give a shit about.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Another epic blast from VDH.

Even "respectable" NeoCons think Victor Davis Hanson is probably an escapee from the puzzle factory.

OC Mike probably helped him tie some bedsheets together and kept watch while the screws made their rounds in the next wing.

[mvscal]

He frightens you, doesn't he? It's OK. He won't hurt you.

[LTS TRN 2]

Hanson and Felchco are ideologically similar.

Paranoid, protectionist and strangely xenophobic.

They're both also a decade too late with their "clash of civilisations" blather for anyone to give a shit about.

Hey B-juice, ya fake Canuck, I've never understood--and you certainly never explain--how you come up with these weird and completely off the wall interpretations of my basic political bearing. Are you really so clueless and careless? Unlike you, I'm not coy at all. I'm very clear. Watch this..

My political beliefs and basic policy approach is essentially that of Dennis Kucincih. Is he paranoid, protectionist, and xenophobic? When you actually back something up--anything--it will be the first time. As for who and what you are really about, this is as mysterious as anything on this palsied forum. You're obviously not a Canadian, nor a "socialist" (which you can't come even close to describing, ever), and you're not a Jew--you're just too stupid and lacking in ideas (not to delve into stereotypes :wink: ).


Anyway, Hanson is joke--on par with Krautenhammer or Kristol. A complete Israel-firster who like all neocons is demented and prepared to go down with the ship--and to take a whole bunch of folks with them.

Getting back to the bald assumption of Bin Laden's hand in the New Pearl Harbor attacks, the FBI has even admitted they have no proof at all.

When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Osama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

And this from Cheney himself

"So we've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming"


So...you can wake up...or just sit with your thumb up your ass as usual. Your choice.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...I've never understood--and you certainly never explain--how you come up with these weird and completely off the wall interpretations of my basic political bearing.

I've read your posts. Contrary to your imagined linguistic gymnastics, they're not terribly hard to decipher. You're a scared little man, just like Mall Cop.


You can claim to be an aardvark all you like, but if an egg drops out of your ass, I'm calling you a duck. Okay?

[The Seer]

Hanson
Paranoid, protectionist and strangely xenophobic.

They're both also a decade too late with their "clash of civilisations" blather for anyone to give a shit about.

It's Friday so here's a softball lobbed in to your wheelhouse....

What specifically do you find inaccurate in Hanson's take?

[LTS TRN 2]

...I've never understood--and you certainly never explain--how you come up with these weird and completely off the wall interpretations of my basic political bearing.

I've read your posts. Contrary to your imagined linguistic gymnastics, they're not terribly hard to decipher. You're a scared little man, just like Mall Cop.


You can claim to be an aardvark all you like, but if an egg drops out of your ass, I'm calling you a duck. Okay?

I've never claimed to offer complicated posts, or anything unclear. Again you're wandering off on some bizarre path. Look, Mall Cop is certainly a scared little rat. Same with SS, "roach" derron, P-willie, trupid and whatever one is to make of dins. But notice that they're not angry. I am. I'm actually pissed that our entire government is effectively held in blackmail by AIPAC. Why aren't you? I'm actually pissed that the giant corporations are initiating a roll back to 19th century feudalism. Why aren't you? I actually have real opinions. Why don't you?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

What specifically do you find inaccurate in Hanson's take?

Do you believe that the greatest threat to Western Civilisation is Al Queda landing craft beaching on America's shores?

This guy sounds like some hysterical, Long Island Jewish housewife. Somebody slip him a Xanax, please.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Again you're wandering off on some bizarre path.

I didn't wander off anywhere, Felchie.

You're just as tribal as the tribe you accuse of this "global perfidy". I called you out on your xenophobic, crackpot nationalism long ago.

You're mvscal's patchouli oil stained cousin. All threats are existential to you two paranoiacs.

[The Seer]

Do you believe that the greatest threat to Western Civilisation is Al Queda landing craft beaching on America's shores?

Interesting translation.

What I read is that basicly the sand knigs contribute zero to the world except for barbarism, yet there are a ton of unfathomably stupid naive people that live in cultures that allow them the freedom to think that there is something redeeming in that.

[LTS TRN 2]

Okay, you say you've made a point about my "xenophobic" attitude, but you've certainly produced nothing whatsoever to support or demonstrate it. Just like everything else. It's just some distraction as far as I can see. My "nationalism"? But also some "tribalism"? Are you drunk? I certainly never used the term "global perfidy," and your implication of my viewing the Zionazis as some kind of tribal affair is idiotic. A mafia-like structure yes, but of course all Jews aren't Zionists, and most Zionists aren't Jews. And who's my tribe supposed to be? Seriously, are you medicated?

The real topic here is that of Bin Laden being framed fifteen minutes after the first tower was hit, and no evidence whatsoever having since been offered to prove his involvement. Try that, you fraud.

[LTS TRN 2]

My political beliefs and basic policy approach is essentially that of Dennis Kucincih. Is he paranoid, protectionist, and xenophobic?

Probably not. I think most people would characterize him as ineffective, insignificant, inarticulate, incomprehensible, incapable of drawing on any non-public-sector experience, insipid, insane and soon-to-be-in need of a political appointment.

Fine, SS, that's your opinion of the man and his career--which may indeed be pretty much over. I'd be happy to dispute your assertions but that's not relevant. Rather, I'm just demonstrating clearly that my actual political bearing and practical direction of policy is basically that of lil' Dennis. Pretty much right down the line of every issue. Contrast this clear position with the utterly murky and veering spurts of bile and so forth posted by coy codgers like b-juice. Similarly, Mall Cop has never actually stood by any elected official--with the exception of a back bench GOP congressman of no consequence several years ago...Tom Flintlock, or something like that.

Now let's get back to Bin Laden and the horseshit of Hanson.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

What I read is that basicly the sand knigs contribute zero to the world except for barbarism...

Do you believe there's a genetic component to this hypothesis?

Are they violent because they're Arab/Muslim/brown?

[The Seer]

No, I'm fairly certain it has to do with that geographic brand of islam that is so tenuous and primitive that they have to resort to extremes to insulate their masses from being able to reason and advance to a minimum of 19th century evolvement....that and breeding with goats & camels will throw a wrench in the sophistication gene...

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

No, I'm fairly certain it has to do with that geographic brand of islam that is so tenuous and primitive that they have to resort to extremes to insulate their masses from being able to reason and advance to a minimum of 19th century evolvement....that and breeding with goats & camels will throw a wrench in the sophistication gene...

So, stop assassinating their secular leaders.

[The Seer]

So, stop assassinating their secular leaders.

+1

[Dr_Phibes]

I think he got his degree at one of those universities where you call your teacher by their first name and no grades as they're too bourgeois. Whenever anyone stepped on a mine in Iraq, he'd start railing about Roman pot-plants. He's a bit woo-woo.

[The Seer]

I think he got his degree at one of those universities where you call your teacher by their first name and no grades as they're too bourgeois. Whenever anyone stepped on a mine in Iraq, he'd start railing about Roman pot-plants. He's a bit woo-woo.

Victor Davis Hanson (born September 5, 1953) is an American military historian, columnist, political essayist and former classics professor, a scholar of ancient warfare. He has been a commentator on modern warfare and contemporary politics for National Review and other media outlets. He was for many years a professor of classics at California State University, Fresno, and is currently the Martin and Illie Anderson Senior Fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution.

The Hoover Institution is an American public policy think tank located at Stanford University in California.

Maybe you are available on weekends to tutor him and bring him up to speed...

[LTS TRN 2]

The Hoover Institute is a right-wing echo chamber of disgraced Reaganites and corporate criminals. Hanson has been robotic in his neocon babble, and his ludicrous racist assessment of the Middle East is typical.

And here's the base of the right-wing contagion, balancing the fraudulent "intellectual" approach of the Hoover institute with good ol' fashioned bible thumping religious fanaticism. This guy is not only a united States congressman, but a high-ranking member of the Hose Science Committee (along with Akin, the expert on "real rape")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... ikEWuBrkHc#!

[mvscal]

I think he got his degree at one of those universities where you call your teacher by their first name and no grades as they're too bourgeois.

He did his undergrad work at UC, Santa Cruz and got his PhD from Stanford, idiot.

[ML@Coyote]

The Hoover Institute is a right-wing echo chamber of disgraced Reaganites and corporate criminals. Hanson has been robotic in his neocon babble, and his ludicrous racist assessment of the Middle East is typical.

The Hoover Institute is an organization dedicated to avoiding war and to sustaining the safeguards of the American way of life. Hanson has been consistent in his views, and his honest assessment of the Middle East is typical.

FTFY

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names

Old Chinese proverb

[Dr_Phibes]

UC, Santa Cruz

[The Seer]

UC, Santa Cruz

Knowing he's spent time with your ilk suggests a broad base & well rounded foundation...

[Dinsdale]

Okay, to destroy this ass-clown in one easy sweep...

The so-called "confession tape video" is a complete joke which has been debunked up and down by a variety of experts. You'll notice that it's completely disappeared

Well, you did destroy an assclown in one easy sweep... I'll give you that. Same one you do every time you post...

Since there's about 500 copies of that video on Youtube at this very moment.

[ML@Coyote]

And here's the base of the right-wing contagion, balancing the fraudulent "intellectual" approach of the Hoover institute with good ol' fashioned bible thumping religious fanaticism. This guy is not only a united States congressman, but a high-ranking member of the Hose Science Committee (along with Akin, the expert on "real rape")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... ikEWuBrkHc#!

And here's your base of your left wing contagion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUki-07sp2E

[Y2K]

I've been fortunate to meet VDH and hear quite a few of his town hall lectures during his time at Fresno State. His an amazing speaker and his knowledge of warfare and current events is amazing. Occasionally there would be the typical LTS Tard in the audience who wanted to challenge him and he always listened no matter how deluded or assinine the drivel spewed by said idiot was, he then commenced to wipe his ass with them and send them out the doors of the Campus Union building drowning in their own tears and piss running down their legs. A very nice guy as well. He a regular contributer for The Fresno Bee and always has the local liberals in full scale melt after his articles are printed. Ya gotta love it.

[LTS TRN 2]

Total bullshit, Y2, and it's pretty clear why. Hanson advances all of his positions and opinions upon the basic premise of what right-wing radio hacks call "American Exceptionalism." This simply means that America enjoys a distinct double standard of moral and ethical behavior in dealing with the world. For example, Hanson believes quite strongly in our essential rightness in invading and attempting to conquer Vietnam. He has no apologies at the disastrous failure of this effort, and like many deluded sorts around here insists that we could have "won" in Vietnam if we'd really wanted to. Similarly, while droning platitudes of Western enlightened degrees of tolerance and benevolence, he has no qualms about America's 20th century record of invading South and Central American nations, murdering duly elected leaders, inciting horrific wars which kill hundreds of thousands, and installing ruthless dictators which are friendly to the American corporate interests. In short, he is a vile hypocrite on par with Kissinger and Pearle. And of course like those international war criminals, Hanson is an Israel-Firster. Do you know what this is, Y2? Of course it means that he'll ignore any of the critical problems caused by the installation of a Zionist state 65-years ago into the heart of the Arab world. He instead robustly assumes that this was a good and proper event and that the Arab world has the obligation to accommodate the ruthless race-state experiment as well as the millions of Palestinian refugees. To appreciate how skewed is his--and the typical Zionazi's--perspective on the Zionist experiment, notice that he ignores that Jews in fact lived peacefully and productively throughout the Middle East before 1948. The ensuing expulsion of Jews from those Arab states was a direct result of the similar expulsion of the millions of Palestinians. Where did the Jews go? To the Zionist experimental state, of course. EXACTLY where the Zionists wanted them to live. You see? This accusation against the Arab nations--Hanson calling them out on being intolerant--was in fact the precise goal of the Zionazis in the first place. It was exactly the same when tens of thousands of Jewish refugees were refused entrance to the U.S.--under the direct pressure of the Zionist groups here and in Europe. The Zionazis wanted them of course to have no choice but to come to the Zionist state.

Of course no one likes fanatical religious types, whether Islamic, Christer, Jewish, or Mormon. And by the way, these are really the only toxic and dangerous ones. But Hanson offers only a blustering, blindered view of some demented John Wayne fantasy imposed upon the world. He's straight out of PNAC. And like those loons, Hanson has no qualms about our destruction of Iraq. He decries Islamic acts of violence--killing grand nephew of Van Gogh--but blithely ignores the killing of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and displacing millions. You see, he's a lying piece of shit who only gives lectures to friendly prepared audiences, and of course never actually debates anything. He's like Krauthammer without the bed pan.

[mvscal]

UC, Santa Cruz

More like

[LTS TRN 2]

And moreover, douchbags like Mall Cop are given some false sense of support in their toxic puppet parrotings. you see?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

5. If not, then how to we ensure that they will not be harmed by those who surround them and openly speak of their destruction?

Why is that any of America's business?

Israel has nukes and a powerful air force and army. I'm sure they can take care of themselves.

[LTS TRN 2]

As I've often suggested, the model of fixing the quagmire of the "Holy Land" is basically that of the same class of '48 apartheid state experiments, South Africa. The list of direct similarities is very long. The criminality and ruthlessness of the Zionist experiment, of course, has proven much deeper and horrific. But I remain committed to a non-violent conclusion to this untenable race-state experiment. Where would they go? Well, it's not up to "us" to move them anywhere. As with South Africa, they can go wherever they like. They could stay, but without the racist double standards, etc. Believe it or not--and folks like Hanson really don't want you to know this--but the Palestinians and Jordanians and Egyptians and Libyans--you know, the hundreds of millions of actual Semitic residents of the area--really don't hate Jews at all. Sure, the hard line muzzies--just like Hanson and the Tea Baggers--are intolerant. But the Islamic fundamentalist rhetoric and actions have always been due to the fact of the hyper-military race-state experiment being installed right in their land in the first place. The question remains...besides the demented Christers who see the establishment of "Israel" ( a total anachronism, btw, it should properly be called "Judea" if it's going to go all retro and pretend to be connected to the long suffering shithole colony of antiquity), why would any sane modern person accept any part of the Zionist premise? This is the real question. We all know how the Zionists shamelessly exploited the horrors of WWII, but this is a false and cheap excuse for ruthlessly enacting a race-state of their own. The list of criminal acts by the Zionazi government alone should horrify any American. What's your excuse?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

You make some good points...and then you drop this tidbit of retardation:

The list of criminal acts by the Zionazi government alone should horrify any American. What's your excuse?

Zioinism is no more "criminal" or "ruthless" than anything in the American experience.
As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say less so.

But you're an American...and you love America...so you can't get past that.

[LTS TRN 2]

You make some good points...and then you drop this tidbit of retardation:

The list of criminal acts by the Zionazi government alone should horrify any American. What's your excuse?

Zioinism is no more "criminal" or "ruthless" than anything in the American experience.
As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say less so.

But you're an American...and you love America...so you can't get past that.

By horrific acts, I'm talking for starters about the Lavon Affair, the attack upon the U.S.S. Liberty, and the massive theft of nuclear secrets by Pollard. As for you claim that ... "Zioinism is no more "criminal" or "ruthless" than anything in the American experience. As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say less so."

Is this even fucking English? I mean what is this statement supposed to say? Look, first of all, Zionism isn't an American experience at all. Rather, it is a racist doctrine of a bunch of seething right-wing National Socialists who desperately wanted their own race state. In fact, its most famous advocate, Herzl, was according to his own diary, completely devoted to the music of Wagner as he plowed ahead with his bitter tracts and bile. What a hoot. As for the Zionists using the American experience, this is simply the shaeless exploitation of the Christers' panting for Apocalypse.

You'd do much better elaborating on the "good points' I make.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Because the U.S. has considered Israel to be an important ally

...with no treaty of defense. You have more of an obligation under NATO to defend Canada than Israel.

Be careful of what you wish for.

I'm calling Israel's bluff. They'll fold.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...the massive theft of nuclear secrets by Pollard

Nuclear secrets?
You mean nuclear secrets that can develop a nuclear weapons program?
That can create a nuclear payload that is capable of obliterating a civilian target?
Like you did in August '45?


Go fist yourself.

[LTS TRN 2]

As I've often suggested, the model of fixing the quagmire of the "Holy Land" is basically that of the same class of '48 apartheid state experiments, South Africa. The list of direct similarities is very long. The criminality and ruthlessness of the Zionist experiment, of course, has proven much deeper and horrific. But I remain committed to a non-violent conclusion to this untenable race-state experiment. Where would they go? Well, it's not up to "us" to move them anywhere. As with South Africa, they can go wherever they like. They could stay, but without the racist double standards, etc. Believe it or not--and folks like Hanson really don't want you to know this--but the Palestinians and Jordanians and Egyptians and Libyans--you know, the hundreds of millions of actual Semitic residents of the area--really don't hate Jews at all. Sure, the hard line muzzies--just like Hanson and the Tea Baggers--are intolerant. But the Islamic fundamentalist rhetoric and actions have always been due to the fact of the hyper-military race-state experiment being installed right in their land in the first place. The question remains...besides the demented Christers who see the establishment of "Israel" ( a total anachronism, btw, it should properly be called "Judea" if it's going to go all retro and pretend to be connected to the long suffering shithole colony of antiquity), why would any sane modern person accept any part of the Zionist premise? This is the real question. We all know how the Zionists shamelessly exploited the horrors of WWII, but this is a false and cheap excuse for ruthlessly enacting a race-state of their own. The list of criminal acts by the Zionazi government alone should horrify any American. What's your excuse?

I'm trying to be fair, here. So correct my errors below, which I entered based on your response above:

1. What is the solution to the problem of Israel, in your opinion?

Treat Israel as South Africa was treated during Aparthied.

2. Should we ethnically cleanse the Middle East of persons who claim to be Jewish?

No cognizable response.

3. If so, where do we relocate them to?

WGARA

4. And what if they refuse to leave?

No cognizable response.

5. If not, then how to we ensure that they will not be harmed by those who surround them and openly speak of their destruction?

WGARA

Bullshit, SS, I clearly address each of your questions. I assume your second question, "should we ethnically cleanse, etc" is ludicrous and of course doesn't warrant a response--especially in light of my very clear basic approach of an anti-apartheid transition of power. As i said very clearly, I support a non-violent approach. So...can't you connect the dots? I've also addressed very clearly the false notion of some "extermination plan" lurking in the neighboring nations. This is as false now as it was before the 1948 invasion. You seem to be in total denial as to acknowledging any fault of the Zionist experiment, and as such you are tedious and a real drag.