Watching the Debate?

[Felix]

So? Are you suggesting that his church or these "charities that he runs" don't help the less fortunate or are you just talking out your ass?

if you knew anything about the mormon church, you'd know just how stupid that question is.....he doesn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, he does it because his fucking religion REQUIRES it...

[trev]

You're an idiot felix. You don't know how Romney feels about donating to his church. Maybe he finds it extremely rewarding. Why do you care? It's his money.

[ML@Coyote]

I don't think it's a stretch to say conservatives more than liberals believe in what you are doing.

Typical self-glossing delusional bullshit.

Typical? Perhaps. Self-glossing? Not necessarily. Conservatives have made a point of this issue. You may think they're wrong, but they have made a point of it. Delusional bullshit? There's no lack of this on either side. It doesn't change the fact that conservatives tend to lean toward private sector efforts rather than government solutions. Felix's efforts are his own. To the best of my knowledge he is not acting as a government employee.

[mvscal]

he doesn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, he does it because his fucking religion REQUIRES it...

Is somebody holding a gun to his head and forcing him to be a Mormon? In any event, that's a strawman.

Do Mormon charities and missions help disadvantaged people all over the world or not? Simple yes or no.

[Felix]

You're an idiot felix. You don't know how Romney feels about donating to his church. Maybe he finds it extremely rewarding. Why do you care? It's his money.

I don't give a shit how he feels about it, but don't tell me he donates to his church because he thinks its the right thing to do, he donates because he has to, otherwise he's castigated by the church....don't believe me, go spend a couple of years down in salt lake city....

Is somebody holding a gun to his head and forcing him to be a Mormon? In any event, that's a strawman.

again, you demonstrate that you don't really know shit about the LDS religion....holding a gun? no, but try and leave, and he'd find himself in a very lonely place....I've known lots of people that left the church and the way they were treated by the "flock" was fucking disgraceful....and his required giving is no fucking strawman....look dude, I've lived around mormons all of my life.....I live in a state that is heavily populated with mormons......bottom line, if you don't tithe to the church, you're not considered to be a good mormon...and it's not a "give what you can" it's pretty much spelled out exactly how much of your money they expect you to give.....

Do Mormon charities and missions help disadvantaged people all over the world or not? Simple yes or no.

sure they send missionaries all over the world to help underprivileged and disadvantaged, but make no mistake about it, their primary intention is to recruit new members to their church...if they believe that helping someone will add to the roster of their church, sure they'll help....but that's not charity, that's indoctrination....

[H4ever]

I'm one of those crazy people that believe that I owe something back to those less fortunate than I...

So is Mitt Romney. He donates a larger percentage of his (much larger) income than Bath House Barry does.

Deal with it, faggot.

What percentage of that goes to the worthless pile of steaming shit religion mormonism? Cancer research perhaps? I doubt it....Shit, the liar, Romney would rather worship his bicycle tire patched Martin Luther blow up doll. Oh and flip-flop and lie some more when he aint chasing his rubber daddy around the room after another puncture from his arrogant little needle dick.

[H4ever]

Obama won the substance.

You keep saying that. But you don't back it up at all. What substance did Obama supposedly provide during the debate? I watched the entire thing. Here is a link to a verbatim transcript of it.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/10/ ... 349321283/

Just cut and paste what you regard as the substantive parts Obama presented for me. I don't see any plans from Obama. All I see are false characterizations of what Obana says are Romney's plans.

False characterizations of Romney's plans/lies/reversals/flip-flops? How can you fucking defend a cock-sucking lying POS like Romney? Is Obama incompetent and the suck? Sure....but do explain how ANYONE can false characterize a fucking lie? with the truth? Bingo...we got a winner!

[Carson]

The collective Demomelt in this thread gives me Hope for Change.

[Truman]

Unemployment down to 7.8% per Department of Labor numbers released today. For those keeping score bu home, that's a 4-year low. Romney says he wants to see people back to work, but something tells me he doesn'u like those numbers. Not to mention that unemployment would actually be 1% lower if public sector hires had kept pace with the previous administration.

:?

So Barry is to be lauded?

The jobless rate fell sharply because it's calculated from a different survey than the official employment number. That household survey showed a robust 873,000 increase in employment and a 456,000 decline in unemployment.

However, many of those job gains were in part-time and self-employed positions.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/bus ... t/1613541/

Marvelous, QuikTrip is hiring.

What's there to like about a 7.8% unemployment rate, Ter? Is that supposed to be good? And while you're at it, any take why the BLS might've changed its methodology this month to calculate their numbers?

No, the number that Romney really doesn't like is the 14.7% that represents the total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force. That number is flat compared to the previous month, "for those keeping score [at] home."

I wonder why the President isn't talking about that number?

[H4ever]

The collective Demomelt in this thread gives me Hope for Change.

Stand by for the Neo Con melt when Romney loses by about a hundred electoral votes. Dude lies about his lies...on national television. He's going to get cunt-punted next time up on the debate stand.

Romney's MASS healthcare plan is a near mirror image of Obamacare you realize? How does that make you feel, son?

[Truman]

The collective Demomelt...

Stand by for the Neo Con melt...[/ :paul: ]

[Dinsdale]

Romney's MASS healthcare plan is a near mirror image of Obamacare you realize? How does that make you feel, son?

It makes me feel as though you've never read the Tenth Amendment.

[Diego in Seattle]

he doesn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, he does it because his fucking religion REQUIRES it...

Is somebody holding a gun to his head and forcing him to be a Mormon? In any event, that's a strawman.

Do Mormon charities and missions help disadvantaged people all over the world or not? Simple yes or no.

Hells Angels does poker runs for children's charities, so I guess you consider them to be good people as well.

Nice take, mouth-breathing mongoloid.

[H4ever]

Romney's MASS healthcare plan is a near mirror image of Obamacare you realize? How does that make you feel, son?

It makes me feel as though you've never read the Tenth Amendment.

Did they amend the amendment to include: "Never mind the liar nor the flip-flopper...standing behind the curtain" ? aka Shit Romney? Wasn't homeboy pro-choice but is now anti-abortion? lies lies....bloodshot eyes.

[War Wagon]

I don't know much about Mormonism but I doubt that Romney ever attended a Mormon religious service where the guy up front preached "God Damn America".

[War Wagon]

Stand by for the Neo Con melt when Romney loses by about a hundred electoral votes. Dude lies about his lies...on national television. He's going to get cunt-punted next time up on the debate stand.

By who, Candy Crowley or will Obama be allowed a teleprompter next time?

Unlike Romney, Obama is a puppet of his handlers, entirely incapable of presenting lucid thoughts or ideas that haven't been vetted 17 times over by Plouffe and/or Axelrod.

[mvscal]

he doesn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, he does it because his fucking religion REQUIRES it...

Is somebody holding a gun to his head and forcing him to be a Mormon? In any event, that's a strawman.

Do Mormon charities and missions help disadvantaged people all over the world or not? Simple yes or no.

Hells Angels does poker runs for children's charities, so I guess you consider them to be good people as well.

Do you honestly expect anyone to buy that line of bullshit? Do you even believe it yourself? Looks like you can pad your kiddy diddling resume with the additional title of intellectually dishonest moron.

Whatever you or anyone else thinks about Mormon beliefs in general, their charities are among if not the most efficient charities in the world. They are completely run by volunteers both at the administrative and receiving ends giving them extraordinarily low overhead costs.

[LTS TRN 2]

Gee, Mall Cop, now you're propping the LDS? I guess they're white enough for you, right?

But, your tedious denialism needs another little curb stomping...Ready?

Let's get back to the matter of just how Mittens and the Bain folks actually operated in their "job creating" business..

In 2000, right before Romney gave up his ownership stake in Bain Capital, the firm targeted KB Toys. In its typical private-equity fragging, Bain put up a mere $18 million to acquire KB Toys and got big banks to finance the remaining $302 million it needed. Less than a year and a half after the purchase, Bain decided to give itself a gift known as a "dividend recapitalization." The firm induced KB Toys to redeem $121 million in stock and take out more than $66 million in bank loans – $83 million of which went directly into the pockets of Bain's owners and investors, including Romney. Bain ended up earning a return of at least 370 percent on the deal, while KB Toys fell into bankruptcy, saddled with millions in debt. KB's former parent company, Big Lots, alleged in bankruptcy court that Bain's "unjustified" return on the dividend recap was actually "900 percent in a mere 16 months." The entire workforce, some with forty years experience, was fired with no severance.


Now, this is a verified fact. Care to attempt to dispute it? Because there's a whole lot of curb going down the road. :wink:

[mvscal]

Gee, Mall Cop, now you're propping the LDS? I guess they're white enough for you, right?

I'm propping their charity work. Are you denying it?

In 2000, right before Romney gave up his ownership stake in Bain Capital, the firm targeted KB Toys.

You can stop right there. Romney took a leave of absence from Bain in Feb. 99 to run the Salt Lake Organizing Committee for the Olympics and wasn't actively involved day to day operations ever again.

Care to attempt to dispute it?

What is there to dispute? KB Toys failed. It happens. Contrary to your lie, KB Toys was not a stable, profitable business. They had already been through several restructurings previously. You don't plunder stable, profitable businesses. You nurture the healthy and you pick the weeds. KB Toys was a weed. Bain has a very respectable portfolio of successful businesses which put the lie to your ridiculous claims.

Bain also is one of Barry's major donors, so you might want to watch the friendly fire. You could wing your hero and we just saw that that thin-skinned tomato can can't take a punch.

[LTS TRN 2]

The KB company went bankrupt because it was saddled with the massive debt of Bain's leveraged acquisition--and massively profitable "dividend recapitalization" scheme. Your denialism is grotesque. You robustly ignore the rapacious behavior of Bain, especially in a case as blatant as the fleecing and gutting of KB. Rather than cutting costs and tightening belts, Bain added $300 million in debt to the firm's bottom line while taking out more than $120 million in cash – an outright looting that creditors later described in a lawsuit as "breaking open the piggy bank." What's more, Bain smoothed the deal in typical fashion by giving huge bonuses to the company's top managers as the firm headed toward bankruptcy. CEO Michael Glazer got an incredible $18.4 million, while CFO Robert Feldman received $4.8 million and senior VP Thomas Alfonsi took home $3.3 million. And no surprise that Mittens worked similar deals with Michael Milken himself--who to this day defends his shameless criminality.

[Felix]

Whatever you or anyone else thinks about Mormon beliefs in general, their charities are among if not the most efficient charities in the world. They are completely run by volunteers both at the administrative and receiving ends giving them extraordinarily low overhead costs.

they give to other mormons, and to promote their religion...that's what they do.....insofar as "volunteers", it's essentially the same as tithing...if you don't do it, you're not considered to be a good mormon....same with missions....what kind of fucking church requires you to pay in order to be considered a member in good standing.....

[War Wagon]

what kind of fucking church requires you to pay in order to be considered a member in good standing.....

The Catholic church in Germany, for one.

What kind of fucking idiot uses an ellipsis after every sentence?

It's beyond annoying, it's pathetic.

[jiminphilly]

what kind of fucking church requires you to pay in order to be considered a member in good standing.....

The Catholic church

You could have ended your response right there.

[mvscal]

they give to other mormons,

WRONG

[Felix]

The Catholic church in Germany, for one.

they do? wow that news to me and I was born and raised catholic.....

[Felix]

they give to other mormons,

WRONG

you're an idiot.....name the five biggest recipients of mormon largesse

[LTS TRN 2]

The KB company went bankrupt because it was saddled with the massive debt of Bain's leveraged acquisition--and massively profitable "dividend recapitalization" scheme.

Once again you have no clue what you're talking about. Not that has ever stopped you before.

KB Toys was a horrific business model that tried to compete at the low end of the toy market with off brands. Hasboro, Mattel & Leggo virtually had no stock in their stores. Toys R Us at the high end and Wal*mart / Target at the value end killed KB.

Okay, KC, let's see if you can pas a basic sobriety test. Just answer yes or no, okay?

First, Bain bought KB with a massive loan--about 90% of the cost. Yes or no?

Second, Bain immediately placed all of this debt--about $300 million--on the books of KB. Yes or No?

Third, Bain then extracted about $120 million, paying the directors of KB gigantic bonuses--about $30 million or so. Yes or No?

Fourth, after Bain reaped a 900% profit on the loans, KB was left bankrupt, its entire workforce laid off with no severance. Yes or No?

Okay, these are straightforward rhetorical questions that ar not in dispute. They are plain fact. Now...if in fact you find your quivering lips actually answering "no" to any of these, you are certifiably drunk and seriously impaired. If you somehow believe that this behavior of Bain--its basic business model--was somehow justifiable or morally sound, then you are in fact a demented and incoherent fraud of the very first order. So....give your answer.

[LTS TRN 2]

So...you can't answer the questions directly either, but trot out some mealy dodge. Here's the salient quote from your piece,


Roger Goddu, a former Toys "R" Us president who's now in the private equity business, had invested in KB Toys and consulted for two years with new management in 2005.

"In hindsight, it's possible that Bain may have taken a dividend on KB Toys that was too aggressive," Goddu said. "However, the issues at KB Toys were not one-dimensional or purely financial."



The facts stand as stated. your attempt to refute is joke. It's really just like some "expert" insisting that the repealing of Glass-Steagall really wasn't a major cause of the '08 melt down.

[mvscal]

they give to other mormons,

WRONG

you're an idiot.....name the five biggest recipients of mormon largesse

The LDS Church considers humanitarian work to be an essential part of its mission to bless all humanity in emulation of Jesus Christ “who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed” (Acts10:38). Throughout its history, the LDS Church has always provided for those in need and is perhaps best known for its efforts to take care of its own. In 1842, founder and Prophet to the LDS Church, Joseph Smith, organized the Women’s Relief Society, an essential aim of which was to provide “relief” to suffering members and ultimately to all people. During the Great Depression the LDS Church organized a welfare program, known today as Welfare Services', to help provide for the needs of its members.

As the program has grown, the welfare efforts of the LDS Church have expanded to help people around the world regardless of religion, race, or nationality. LDS Humanitarian Services was created to coordinate these efforts in partnership with government and other nonprofit agencies around the world. The top humanitarian initiatives include clean water, vision treatment, wheelchair provision, neonatal resuscitation, and disaster relief. Other initiatives include immunizations, family enrichment programs, and family food production. In 2008, LDS Humanitarian Services provided aid to 3.3 million people in 122 countries, and since 1985 help has been given to 23 million people in 163 nations. All of these initiatives, as well as support and advice on personal and community preparation for disasters can be found on the LDS Church’s Provident Living website.

You can fuck off now.

[LTS TRN 2]

Good link 88

Companies like Bain, KKR and others buy struggling retailers with the idea to turn them around and sell them at a profit (usually taking them public). sometimes it works pretty well. In this case KBs model was way too broken to fix.

Sure, KC, it was an old business model, so...might as well "pick a winner" and load it up with debt, drive it under, and reap a huge profit on its carcass, right? That's your take on Capitalism?

[mvscal]

By old they mean obsolete, idiot.

[LTS TRN 2]

The LDS Church considers humanitarian work to be an essential part of its mission to bless all humanity in emulation of Jesus Christ “who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed” (Acts10:38). Throughout its history, the LDS Church has always provided for those in need and is perhaps best known for its efforts to take care of its own. In 1842, founder and Prophet to the LDS Church, Joseph Smith, organized the Women’s Relief Society, an essential aim of which was to provide “relief” to suffering members and ultimately to all people. During the Great Depression the LDS Church organized a welfare program, known today as Welfare Services', to help provide for the needs of its members.

As the program has grown, the welfare efforts of the LDS Church have expanded to help people around the world regardless of religion, race, or nationality. LDS Humanitarian Services was created to coordinate these efforts in partnership with government and other nonprofit agencies around the world. The top humanitarian initiatives include clean water, vision treatment, wheelchair provision, neonatal resuscitation, and disaster relief. Other initiatives include immunizations, family enrichment programs, and family food production. In 2008, LDS Humanitarian Services provided aid to 3.3 million people in 122 countries, and since 1985 help has been given to 23 million people in 163 nations. All of these initiatives, as well as support and advice on personal and community preparation for disasters can be found on the LDS Church’s Provident Living website.

You can fuck off now.

Oh great, Mall Cop is here suckiong off Mittens.

Look, you moron, the Mormon cult sends all that money to aggressively promote the development of the Mormon church all over the world, period. Like Mother Theresa, it acts as though it is some kind of "charity" when in fact it is embarked on pure missionary work.

[mvscal]

Oh, is that what they're doing? Nothing else that would help impoverished people in this country and around the world? I'm sure you have some facts to support that assertion, right?

[LTS TRN 2]

Damn straight, but you're pointing it out is just a dodge. As usual you are totally gutless.

[mvscal]

Sure, KC, it was an old business model, so...might as well "pick a winner" and load it up with debt, drive it under, and reap a huge profit on its carcass, right? That's your take on Capitalism?

That wouldn't have happened if it was a winner. I've seen VC take business that were under valued and turn them into winners. That wasn't the case here. Bain recognized this paid themselves back and left the rest for the creditors to pick over.

Anything more complicated than 'Capitalism Bad' followed by a Frankenstein grunt makes Felchie's head hurt. Funny how libs are all about "nuance" until an actual opportunity to employ it presents itself.

[Dinsdale]

As to the debate, and the lib mely over "Liar, flipflopper, etc.," and how they all but bank on him using this to an advantage in Round 2...

Hello?

What was Obummer's tack in the first debate?

It was telling a bunch of lies, which won't bode well if he wants to accuse anyone of lying.

"[Romney's] tax plan calls for $5 trillion in tax cuts, and the numbers don't work."

"It must be a great plan if he has to keep it secret."

"He won't give us details of a tax plan."



Well, Barry... which is it. Are you saying you know his tax plan, and don't agree, or are you lying about his secretiveness?

One way or another, fucker LIED. Not up for any debate, since he gave two very contradictory statements in the matter of a few minutes.

Yet the libs are calling Romney the "liar"?

Ponderous.

Mittens is a douche of the highest order, and whatever he promises, it's going to be more of the same. But the libbies' blind devotion the the letter by his name is an indication of mental retardation.

This clown is a fucking idiot. Stuck in this two party debacle, never give any of the thieves a second term to impliment their evil... they're all republicrats.

Just keep your hands off my fucking wallet... is that too much to ask?

[Screw_Michigan]

The Catholic church in Germany, for one.

they do? wow that news to me and I was born and raised catholic.....

You're not familiar with tithing?

[Dinsdale]

You have a problem with it, Felix?

Wow, you're one cold, heartless motherfucker.

That's what you say about people who don't want to be forced to give their incomes to others, right?

[LTS TRN 2]

Okay dins, so you're doing toilet duty now? Wiping away the Bain thread of diseased rapacious weasels... into a soft digression of your wet dull skull?


No...it's back to Mittens' disgusting record as a plutocrat Capitalist whore ....

[Felix]

You can fuck off now.

really? maybe you might want to look at some numbers

According to an official church Welfare Services fact sheet, the church gave $1.3 billion in humanitarian aid in more than 178 countries and territories during the 25 years between 1985 and 2010. A fact sheet from the previous year indicates that less than one-third of the sum was monetary assistance, while the rest was in the form of “material assistance.” All in all, if one were to evenly distribute that $1.3 billion over a quarter-century, it would mean that the church gave $52 million annually. A study co-written by Cragun and recently published in Free Inquiry estimates that the Mormon Church donates only about 0.7 percent of its annual income to charity; the United Methodist Church gives about 29 percent.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... e-money#p1

wanna take another swing at it?

You have a problem with it, Felix?

i have problems with religion in general, but to each his own.... but when a church forces members to pay to be considered an upstanding member of the church, I have a big problem with that...