Stupid liberal anti-business rag

[Dinsdale]

Care to dispute any of the rest of my post?

No, since it was pretty much spot-on, as far as I could tell.

[Mikey]

Care to dispute any of the rest of my post?

No, since it was pretty much spot-on, as far as I could tell.

My brain mixes up words sometimes.

It's a combination of aging and past abuse, I think.

[Dinsdale]

That would be awesome, but unfortunately, the Arabs & other oil folks keep killing the people that are trying to get all of that worked out.

I heard guys touting the titanium-catalyzed manifold injectors the other day, saying it will increase fuel efficiency on a big rig by 18-20%.

I'd say there's at least an 18-20% chance they took science classes the same place H4ever did.

That whole "conservation of energy" thing is a real bitch.

[Dinsdale]

My brain mixes up words sometimes.

All good -- my hands mix up cocktails sometimes.

[Derron]

If they were viable, they would be on the market now. But they are not even close to being viable. And billions have been spent on their development so far.

A concept that the greenies fail to grasp. I worked for a major turf equipment company back in the late 90's. They produced a prototype model of a hydrogen cell powered greens mower in 1997. Rolled it out to service managers and sales staff at a private double top secret company meeting. It operated fairly well, but was way too heavy to be viable, plus being able to keep it fueled in any kind of normal existing or potential infrastructure was impossible. Kept testing it for a couple of years, but never sent it to field testing, which is what I did.

The engineers and the accountants got together, and decided that the technology simply was not going to work, and when you put the science and the cost equation together, it had no viable economic upside at all, and given the nature of the science, it would likely NEVER be cost effective, and the project was scrapped in favor of a electric alternative.

So if these companies were testing the technology over 15 years ago, and took a pass, since even the most basic and annoying of those physics laws prevented it from happening, have those physics laws changed and the project can be brought out again?...Bwwwhhaaa....

[smackaholic]

If they were viable, they would be on the market now. But they are not even close to being viable. And billions have been spent on their development so far.

A concept that the greenies fail to grasp. I worked for a major turf equipment company back in the late 90's. They produced a prototype model of a hydrogen cell powered greens mower in 1997. Rolled it out to service managers and sales staff at a private double top secret company meeting. It operated fairly well, but was way too heavy to be viable, plus being able to keep it fueled in any kind of normal existing or potential infrastructure was impossible. Kept testing it for a couple of years, but never sent it to field testing, which is what I did.

The engineers and the accountants got together, and decided that the technology simply was not going to work, and when you put the science and the cost equation together, it had no viable economic upside at all, and given the nature of the science, it would likely NEVER be cost effective, and the project was scrapped in favor of a electric alternative.

So if these companies were testing the technology over 15 years ago, and took a pass, since even the most basic and annoying of those physics laws prevented it from happening, have those physics laws changed and the project can be brought out again?...Bwwwhhaaa....

what's a physics law?

sin, you know who

[Dinsdale]

what's a physics law?

sin, you know who

I dunno...

were you refering to the guy who suggested harvesting hydrogen from the atmospere to burn for energy?

That guy?

[Mikey]

If they were viable, they would be on the market now. But they are not even close to being viable. And billions have been spent on their development so far.

A concept that the greenies fail to grasp. I worked for a major turf equipment company back in the late 90's. They produced a prototype model of a hydrogen cell powered greens mower in 1997. Rolled it out to service managers and sales staff at a private double top secret company meeting. It operated fairly well, but was way too heavy to be viable, plus being able to keep it fueled in any kind of normal existing or potential infrastructure was impossible. Kept testing it for a couple of years, but never sent it to field testing, which is what I did.

The engineers and the accountants got together, and decided that the technology simply was not going to work, and when you put the science and the cost equation together, it had no viable economic upside at all, and given the nature of the science, it would likely NEVER be cost effective, and the project was scrapped in favor of a electric alternative.

So if these companies were testing the technology over 15 years ago, and took a pass, since even the most basic and annoying of those physics laws prevented it from happening, have those physics laws changed and the project can be brought out again?...Bwwwhhaaa....

what's a physics law?

sin, you know who

Uhhh...the laws of physics don't change.

There is a branch of research call "materials science" though.

You and duhron might want to check it out. There have been some minor advances in the past 15 years.

god and G0d if I didn't know better I'd think duhron was trolling as somebody too stupid to find his own dick.



1997: They've been trying for a couple of years but they'll never be able to make a cell phone small enough to fit in your pocket. Laws of physics and shit.

[Moving Sale]

Link me up where I said they were?

Then why the fuck would you care if people want to reduce the use of ff
no matter what the reason?

[smackaholic]

Link me up where I said they were?

Then why the fuck would you care if people want to reduce the use of ff
no matter what the reason?

I think I speak for dins, 88 and the rest of us knuckledraggers when I say we don't give two fukks if you want to reduce their use. Do what the fukk you want with YOUR fukking money. I think stuff like mikey's magic electric shade tree are good ideas so long as I don't have to subsidize them. When it makes financial sense to bring such shit to the market, they will come. Some fukking community organizer in DC spending others money should not be the one making these decisions.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...mikey's magic electric shade tree are good ideas so long as I don't have to subsidize them.

You're never going to let that one go, are you?

[Dinsdale]

Then why the fuck would you care if people want to reduce the use of ff
no matter what the reason?

Link me up to where I said I gave a shit?

Another question for you, which I'm sure you'll dodge, like every other question posed to you: Do you atually try to pull this bullshit on judges?

Obviously not, or you'd have been disbarred by now.

Worst. Lawyer. EVER.

But again -- what are your suggestions for viable alternatives to power vehicles? It's a pretty basic question.

[Derron]

So a phone call and e mail got me a bit more information which you can read in the article.

The hydrogen powered utility vehicles are still very much in an experimental stage. This technology is still not viable across the product line. And these are strictly subsidized, more for the PR value than cost effectiveness of the machines, and I get that from unnamed sources close to the project.

http://www.sportsturfonline.com/ME2/dir ... B9527FD950

[mvscal]

Gee, I dunno....maybe develop technology to harvest hydrogen from the atmosphere?

So what's your story? Congenital retardation? Difficult forceps delivery? Or is your appalling stupidity the product of years of careful cultivation?

The Atmosphere

Nitrogen 78.08%
Oxygen 20.9%
Argon .9%
Other trace gases .039%

Notice anything missing? Here I'll help you out a bit. The only meaningful source of hydrogen in the atmosphere is water vapor. Any thoughts on why it would be pretty fucking stupid to harvest water vapor from the atmosphere?

Don't cheat...

[Mikey]

So a phone call and e mail got me a bit more information which you can read in the article.

The hydrogen powered utility vehicles are still very much in an experimental stage. This technology is still not viable across the product line. And these are strictly subsidized, more for the PR value than cost effectiveness of the machines, and I get that from unnamed sources close to the project.

http://www.sportsturfonline.com/ME2/dir ... B9527FD950

Issue Date: January ST 2008, Posted On: 3/18/2008

So, now you're up to 2008. You're rapidly approaching the modern world.
Great progress. Keep up the good work.

[Dinsdale]

Notice anything missing?

Stop lying, OK?

HYDROGEN IS THE MOST COMMON ELEMENT ON EARTH DAMMIT!!!!!

[smackaholic]

Gee, I dunno....maybe develop technology to harvest hydrogen from the atmosphere?

So what's your story? Congenital retardation? Difficult forceps delivery? Or is your appalling stupidity the product of years of careful cultivation?

The Atmosphere

Nitrogen 78.08%
Oxygen 20.9%
Argon .9%
Other trace gases .039%

Notice anything missing? Here I'll help you out a bit. The only meaningful source of hydrogen in the atmosphere is water vapor. Any thoughts on why it would be pretty fucking stupid to harvest water vapor from the atmosphere?

Don't cheat...

You mean the atmosphere isn't 87% CO2? :?

Wait, I get it. Those figures above are for the 13% of the atmosphere that isn't CO2.

[Dinsdale]

I've got an idea -- why don't we pump water up hills with electric pumps, then build dams for hydroelectric on the hill?


Sin,
The Hydrogen Advocate4ever

[Mikey]

You mean the atmosphere isn't 87% CO2? :?

Wait, I get it. Those figures above are for the 13% of the atmosphere that isn't CO2.

Actually it's a lot less than that.

(sin MA)

Prolly don't need to worry until it gets up to like 20% though.

[H4ever]

Gee, I dunno....maybe develop technology to harvest hydrogen from the atmosphere?

So what's your story? Congenital retardation? Difficult forceps delivery? Or is your appalling stupidity the product of years of careful cultivation?

The Atmosphere

Nitrogen 78.08%
Oxygen 20.9%
Argon .9%
Other trace gases .039%

Notice anything missing? Here I'll help you out a bit. The only meaningful source of hydrogen in the atmosphere is water vapor. Any thoughts on why it would be pretty fucking stupid to harvest water vapor from the atmosphere?

Don't cheat...

Yea yea...Nitrogen is combustible. Seems to be plenty of it up there. Howsabout using it as an energy source? What do you and your mini-me, Dins think? Google away..no hurry here.

[Dinsdale]

I'VE GOT IT!!!

We should just hook a generator up to one of these!

Sin,
It Will Keep Turning4ever

[H4ever]

I've got an idea -- why don't we pump water up hills with electric pumps, then build dams for hydroelectric on the hill?


Sin,
The Hydrogen Advocate4ever

I've got a better idea....get Romney''s cock out of your mouth. Nobody can hear ya. You really like to take something and run with it don't ya, Sport? That's a sure sign of being one boring motherfucker in a social setting. Unless everybody pauses mid-conversation so you can google your input...then your golden, Pony Boy.

[Dinsdale]

Yea yea...Nitrogen is combustible.

Man... you should teach science.

[H4ever]

Yea yea...Nitrogen is combustible.

Man... you should teach science.

You should teach "being a social-media boss!" 101.

[Dinsdale]

I've got a better idea....get Romney''s cock out of your mouth. Nobody can hear ya. You really like to take something and run with it don't ya, Sport? That's a sure sign of being one boring motherfucker in a social setting. Unless everybody pauses mid-conversation so you can google your input...then your golden, Pony Boy.

You seem quite confused here, which is no big surprise, since monumental idiots are often thrown for a loop. But I'm here to help, due to my soft spot for fucking retards:

See, for starters, what does my very well-informed opinion that Obama is a complete failure have to do with basic science?

The fact that you think hydrogen can be "harvested from the atmosphere" (even though there isn't any hydrogen molecules in the atmosphere) didn't stem from any political beliefs I may or may not have -- it stems completely from your utter and shocking lack of any sort of intelligence or education.

The fact that you think oil companies are trying to quash raw hydrogen as a fuel has little to do with how entertaining I may or may not be at a social gathering (this is dependent on ethanol as a fuel), but rather a gargantuan level of cerebral malfunction.

And best of all, the idea that you think I need some sort of search engine to harken back to the days of junior high school science class, when they laid the foundation for... not being you speaks to the monsterous level of inbreeding, baby-droppings, poor parenting, poor education, and certainly speaks to the amount of drool that collects in your cup in a five minute span.


You are an idiot on a scale rarely seen by mere mortals.

[Mikey]

I've got an idea -- why don't we pump water up hills with electric pumps, then build dams for hydroelectric on the hill?


Sin,
The Hydrogen Advocate4ever

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I see.

A guy wanted to put a 500 kW fuel cell in a single family residence (don't ask me what he needed 500 kW in one house for).

The proposal was to make hydrogen by installing solar panels and using laboratory grade electrolyzers to make hydrogen for the fuel cells.

The electrolyzer has a conversion efficiency of around 50%. The fuel cell has a conversion efficiency of 50% max. So, going from solar electricity to fuel cell electricity you lose at least 75% of what the PV system produces. So, why not just use the PV panels directly?

Another small glitch that I pointed out to him was that he would need something like 4 acres of solar panels to produce enough hydrogen for 500 kW of fuel cell generation.

He came back with another proposal to build some kind of coal gasification system and have something like 2000 lb per day of mesquite charcoal delivered by a restaurant supply company.

I kid you not.

[H4ever]

I've got a better idea....get Romney''s cock out of your mouth. Nobody can hear ya. You really like to take something and run with it don't ya, Sport? That's a sure sign of being one boring motherfucker in a social setting. Unless everybody pauses mid-conversation so you can google your input...then your golden, Pony Boy.

You seem quite confused here, which is no big surprise, since monumental idiots are often thrown for a loop. But I'm here to help, due to my soft spot for fucking retards:

See, for starters, what does my very well-informed opinion that Obama is a complete failure have to do with basic science?

The fact that you think hydrogen can be "harvested from the atmosphere" (even though there isn't any hydrogen molecules in the atmosphere) didn't stem from any political beliefs I may or may not have -- it stems completely from your utter and shocking lack of any sort of intelligence or education.

The fact that you think oil companies are trying to quash raw hydrogen as a fuel has little to do with how entertaining I may or may not be at a social gathering (this is dependent on ethanol as a fuel), but rather a gargantuan level of cerebral malfunction.

And best of all, the idea that you think I need some sort of search engine to harken back to the days of junior high school science class, when they laid the foundation for... not being you speaks to the monsterous level of inbreeding, baby-droppings, poor parenting, poor education, and certainly speaks to the amount of drool that collects in your cup in a five minute span.


You are an idiot on a scale rarely seen by mere mortals.

I confused nitrogen and hydrogen somewhere in there...glad I could give you and Mvscal some fodder. Did you boys rub one out as you crafted your zingers? Much board cred to you! You fuckin rock! Do tell me, oh brilliant one, which element is the most plentiful in the universe?

[Dinsdale]

The electrolyzer has a conversion efficiency of around 50%. The fuel cell has a conversion efficiency of 50% max. So, going from solar electricity to fuel cell electricity you lose at least 75% of what the PV system produces. So, why not just use the PV panels directly.

OK, got me...

Why?



Sin,
Beenstupid4ever

[Dinsdale]

I confused nitrogen and hydrogen somewhere in there...

Yes... one burns at an attainable temperature, and one of them is present in the atmosphere.


Every time you try to dig yourself out of the hole, you make it deeper with your next round of dumbfuckery.

I'm actually impressed that you can get a computer to boot up all by yourself (assuming you do).

[Carson]

Chevron is the world's largest producer of geothermal energy:

http://www.chevron.com/deliveringenergy/geothermal/

...steam...

:twisted:

[smackaholic]

I've got an idea -- why don't we pump water up hills with electric pumps, then build dams for hydroelectric on the hill?


Sin,
The Hydrogen Advocate4ever

Oddly enough, that is exactly what we do to store excess power already. Water/gravity make the best large capacity battery available.

[Dinsdale]

Oddly enough, that is exactly what we do to store excess power already. Water/gravity make the best large capacity battery available.

In certain places and certain situations, sure. I was working at a much more basic level to ridicule the tard, was all.

I've heard crazy proposals lately -- since our state decided to do the democrat thing (:SHOCKER:), and give huge subsidies to the well-connected wealthy folk who run wind-powered energy companies (there's a reason the world windsurfing championships have always been held in the Gorge), it's been a bit of a problem: the wind blows the hardest when the Columbia (hydroelectric capital of the US) is flowing the most. Last year, there was so much power coming from the BPA dams (which during high river flows, they can't really "shut off"), and no one to buy it (CA and AZ were doing just fine at the time, our two best power-swapping buddies), they ordered the wind farms shut down. WHOA, what a stink that caused with the tit-suckers... they sued (unsuccessfully, IIRC).

But people have brought up ideas to run pipelines from the Creek up Mt Hood (greenies won't like it, despite the minimal impact), and dumping mass water on the upper elevations of Hood, to increase snowpack/glaciation, through pumps that utilize the excess electricity. Still way frozen up there in early spring, and the runoff would come later in the summer, which would keep them big dams humming during the summer. As an added bonus, it would improve fish migration (which is a huge, huge management issue for the BPA, fish vs electricity in summer), and create better irrigation opportunities.

Seems pretty simple and relatively cheap to me (although the tech aspect of pumping water up that high, when there's no power grid at the higher elevations, due to impossibility, could be a logistical problem... Timberline brings fuel in on trucks and runs generators, since neither underground lines or overhead towers are an option there).


Seems like it's worth looking into.

[Atomic Punk]

But people have brought up ideas to run pipelines from the Creek up Mt Hood (greenies won't like it, despite the minimal impact), and dumping mass water on the upper elevations of Hood, to increase snowpack/glaciation, through pumps that utilize the excess electricity. Still way frozen up there in early spring, and the runoff would come later in the summer, which would keep them big dams humming during the summer. As an added bonus, it would improve fish migration (which is a huge, huge management issue for the BPA, fish vs electricity in summer), and create better irrigation opportunities.

Seems pretty simple and relatively cheap to me (although the tech aspect of pumping water up that high, when there's no power grid at the higher elevations, due to impossibility, could be a logistical problem... Timberline brings fuel in on trucks and runs generators, since neither underground lines or overhead towers are an option there).


Seems like it's worth looking into.

That's actually a very great idea. For example, anybody that has ever traveled down I-5 or Hwy-99 below Bakersfield has seen these enormous 4 pipes taking pumped water taken from the farmers over the mountains to SoCal. You don't hear any greenies bitch about that eyesore. BTW, CA is only a Blue state in SFO and LA along with a few seaside communities. Pelosi, Boxer, and Feinstein don't represent the rest of the State.

[Dinsdale]

BTW, CA is only a Blue state in SFO and LA along with a few seaside communities. Pelosi, Boxer, and Feinstein don't represent the rest of the State.

Oregon is a ridiculously blue state... in the Valley. The rest is extremely conservative. Unfortunately, the majority of the population lives in the Valley, so theryago.

I don't think the rest of the country realizes that away from the coastal areas, just how banjo-plucking redneck California is. And away from the Willamette Valley, Oregon is even more necky.

As far as piping going up Mt Hood -- stupid greenies chain themselves to trees and shit to stop a gas pipeline (because I guess coal is better, or something) from going through the Mt Hood National Forest... a 12 foot wide swath would have a MONSTER environmental impact.

Don't get me wrong, I speak out loud and proud about serious environmental concerns in my great land, and have since long before the transplants tried to make that activity "cool" -- but I also don't sweat the inconsequential stuff, like cutting a 12 foot swath through millions of acres of forest... I kind of like money and heat, as well as the environment.

[DrDetroit]

I've heard crazy proposals lately -- since our state decided to do the democrat thing (:SHOCKER:), and give huge subsidies to the well-connected wealthy folk who run wind-powered energy companies (there's a reason the world windsurfing championships have always been held in the Gorge), it's been a bit of a problem: the wind blows the hardest when the Columbia (hydroelectric capital of the US) is flowing the most. Last year, there was so much power coming from the BPA dams (which during high river flows, they can't really "shut off"), and no one to buy it (CA and AZ were doing just fine at the time, our two best power-swapping buddies), they ordered the wind farms shut down. WHOA, what a stink that caused with the tit-suckers... they sued (unsuccessfully, IIRC).

That's right, BPA won and didn't have to compensate the wind generators for their lost tax credits, which is about the only money the windies make, i.e., they suck up tax dollars.

But people have brought up ideas to run pipelines from the Creek up Mt Hood (greenies won't like it, despite the minimal impact), and dumping mass water on the upper elevations of Hood, to increase snowpack/glaciation, through pumps that utilize the excess electricity. Still way frozen up there in early spring, and the runoff would come later in the summer, which would keep them big dams humming during the summer. As an added bonus, it would improve fish migration (which is a huge, huge management issue for the BPA, fish vs electricity in summer), and create better irrigation opportunities.

Hood's runoff has zero effect on any of the Columbia's dams. Well, maybe Bonneville to some small extent. You'd have to pump that water up to BC, Canada to have it affect the Columbia's dams.

[Dinsdale]

Hood's runoff has zero effect on any of the Columbia's dams. Well, maybe Bonneville to some small extent.

Trying to educate me on lower Columbia geography/topography?


Really?


It's also coupled with the very longstanding, albeit omitted from the initail post (in the rare instance of moderated brevity from me) plan to fill the caverns in the desert with the excess runoff in winter.

Add to that the "stacking" effect of filling the Bonneville Pool (yeah, I know you didn't know what it was called) on the impoundments upstream.

Try again, neophyte.

And think carefully before you want to start talking U&L issues with me -- I've forgotten more than you've learned.
You are everything that's wrong with my town -- know-it-all transplant idiots. I'm surprised you haven't started voting straight D yet. Would certainly fit the persona you're quickly adopting... don't integrate -- dictate. Us natives are surely a bunch of rubes who know nothing about our home, right?

You are the problem.

[DrDetroit]

Not educating, informing to be polite. I thought I was posting an accurate observation about Hood's runoff and it's effect on the Columbia dams. Topography and geography? Nah.

I'd say trust me as I am now working for a certain, large power marketing administration out here, but you wouldn't believe me anyway. Nonetheless, I'm working alongside the guys who patented streamflow analysis software and next to guys who forecast runoff here in the PacNW. When I first got here and made a silly comment about Hood's late growing snowpack affecting the river, yeah, I was put in my place.

So, all I was pointing out was the Hood's runoff has very little effect on the Columbia dams, except perhaps for a small part at Bonneville.

If you want to disagree with that, go ahead. But whining about me teaching you U&L topography and geopgraphy, take it someplace else. The sniveling is remining me what I don't like about Portland.

[Atomic Punk]

BTW, CA is only a Blue state in SFO and LA along with a few seaside communities. Pelosi, Boxer, and Feinstein don't represent the rest of the State.

Oregon is a ridiculously blue state... in the Valley. The rest is extremely conservative. Unfortunately, the majority of the population lives in the Valley, so theryago.

I don't think the rest of the country realizes that away from the coastal areas, just how banjo-plucking redneck California is. And away from the Willamette Valley, Oregon is even more necky.

As far as piping going up Mt Hood -- stupid greenies chain themselves to trees and shit to stop a gas pipeline (because I guess coal is better, or something) from going through the Mt Hood National Forest... a 12 foot wide swath would have a MONSTER environmental impact.

Don't get me wrong, I speak out loud and proud about serious environmental concerns in my great land, and have since long before the transplants tried to make that activity "cool" -- but I also don't sweat the inconsequential stuff, like cutting a 12 foot swath through millions of acres of forest... I kind of like money and heat, as well as the environment.

I don't understand Oregon politics and why it's such a Blue State. The rednecks up there hate Californian transplants. It is well known in my redneck area that they hate Californians so why is it so Blue up there. I love Oregon and it's a great place.

I can imagine those like TVO, Mikey, m2, etc. fitting the criteria to be loathed and stereo typed, but what about us real Californians that make up most of the State that get blown off by our politicians?

Since I grew up in a farming community, they are letting mass crops die because of water rights. The only good that comes from it is that many illegals from south of the border are going back south. I've heard this from local farmers and it was even a special episode show on Hannity where he was here showing just that.

[Dinsdale]

The sniveling is remining me what I don't like about Portland.

We wouldn't bitch if you transplants weren't such arrogant douchebags.

The Midwesterners being by far the worst... hands down.

At least we can kind of relate to the Calis. Least Coasters are shut-in idiots with no clue how to live outside of a building, but at least they don't douche it up as hard as the Flyovers.


AP -- we don't, nor have we ever, including the Great Migration of the late 80's/early 90's, have a problem with the redneck Calis. Even most of the non-radical NoCals. Because they didn't show up and start telling us how to live. It's been hard, starting with my early adulthood, watching this place become a refugee camp for disgruntled dickheads who want to build their utopia... at my expense. Used to be such an awesome place, with awesome people. WShile I'll still take it over anywhere else, I just wish the "keep Portland weird" crowd (like they have any fucking clue) would go back where they came from, and let us do our "progressive redneck" thing like the Old Days.

[Atomic Punk]

Well, I would love to catch fish there one day but not go hiking on a damn mountain with freezing temps and high winds. Darwin catches those idiots better than most fishermen could catch salmon.

Oregon being a Blue state like Cali is a farce. The people and especially farmers here are pissed off and Romney wins in spite of this idiot in charge. Is the Electoral college like the BCS?