So you want to legalize pot, hippy lettuce, chronic, etc

[Moving Sale]

The NHTSA doesn't keep the stats you say they do either. What I said about the NTSB stats holds true for the NHTSA.

And that was a nice false analogy about pilots v attys. :doh:

Care to try again tard?

[MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan]

I'd like to see some stats that break down fatalities by BAC range. Like how many fatalities were caused by people who blew .08-.10, .11-.15, .16+, etc. If I was a betting man, I'd wager that most fatalities are caused by really fucked up drivers, while the rest of us getting popped in that .08-.13 range are just filling government coffers.

I got a DUI almost 13 years ago and I certainly learned my lesson, but not the lesson I was presumably supposed to learn. The lesson wasn't that you shouldn't drive drunk because you're liable to kill somebody. It was that you shouldn't drive drunk because a cop can pull you over for whatever bullshit reason they decide to make up, and once they've got you, you're pretty well fucked. I guess the end result is the same, though. I don't do it anymore because it's just not worth it.

It's just kind of sad that government can continue to bilk people out of thousands for driving a little buzzed, and no politicians will say anything about it, for fear of being labeled soft on crime or, worse yet, pro-drunk driving.

[Dinsdale]

We know for a fact that in 2010 10,228 people were killed by drunk drivers, ie those with a bac of.08 or higher. Another 1,720 were killed by drivers with a bac of greater than .01 but less than .08. Almost 12,000 people were killed by some form of drinking and driving. Even if we only look at those with a bac of greater than .08 that is still 28 people per day killed by a drunk driver.

Actually, that's where the whole "three kinds of lies" thing kicks in.

What we don't know for fact is how many of those people would have crashed if they weren't under the influence. Sober people crash all the time, and many die.

But let's run with that 12,000 number.

I'll start by saying it's 12,000 too many.

BUT... how many hundreds of millions of instances of drunk driving occur every year?

You'll note I used the term "hundreds of millions." I'm quite confident that's accurate.

The math... just doesn't work out to some "national emergency," or whatever people want to call it. But since it draws ire and outrage, it's become a cash cow for the non-producers of society, and they roll out big numbers like "12,000" to work their grift.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Would you fly on an airliner if you knew the crew were slamming tequila shots over the Atlantic?
Even if they told you they could handle it?
Probably not.

[Moving Sale]

What we don't know for fact is how many of those people would have crashed if they weren't under the influence. Sober people crash all the time, and many die.

We don't even know if they were killed by a drunk driver and that's well becore we get to the "why" question.I'd call you a stupid fuck right now but that seems a tad counterproductive so I'll pass for a post or two.

[Moving Sale]

Would you fly on an airliner if you knew the crew were slamming tequila shots over the Atlantic?
Even if they told you they could handle it?
Probably not.

Objection
Shit anology.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Would you fly on an airliner if you knew the crew were slamming tequila shots over the Atlantic?
Even if they told you they could handle it?
Probably not.

Objection
Shit anology.

Alcohol is a CNS depressant that impairs judgment and motor function. Impairment increases with BAC.


Just stop. All of you.

[Derron]

It was that you shouldn't drive drunk because a cop can pull you over for whatever bullshit reason they decide to make up, and once they've got you, you're pretty well fucked.
It's just kind of sad that government can continue to bilk people out of thousands for driving a little buzzed,

I am sure that asshole cop just pulled your car out of the others on the road that night because he just felt you were the one. You probably did not exhibit any of the driving behaviors or patterns common to DUI drivers, that gives them probable cause to pull your drunken ass over.

Should have just stood up in court and called bullshit on the cops PC, I am sure the judge would have let you off.

Driving a little buzzed ? Brilliant idea.

[Mace]

Alcohol is a CNS depressant that impairs judgment and motor function. Impairment increases with BAC.


Just stop. All of you.

^^^^
This.

Thank you, Marty. That comment should end any and all intelligent discussion on this topic...not that there's been much intelligence displayed thus far.

[Moving Sale]

[Siri]- Lots of things are dangerous comrades.
The most dangerous drug on the road is testosterone. Care to Ban it?
How about left turns? How dangerous are left turns do you want to outlaw them?
How about riding shotgun? Do you want to ban the passenger seat because it's the most dangerous seat in the car?
How about speeding? How much jail time should speeder do? How many thousands of dollars should the fine be? How many months of classes should speeders take?
Please try to get smarter before you post again you stupid bloated fucks.

[smackaholic]

[Siri]- Lots of things are dangerous comrades.
The most dangerous drug on the road is testosterone. Care to Ban it?
How about left turns? How dangerous are left turns do you want to outlaw them?
How about riding shotgun? Do you want to ban the passenger seat because it's the most dangerous seat in the car?
How about speeding? How much jail time should speeder do? How many thousands of dollars should the fine be? How many months of classes should speeders take?
Please try to get smarter before you post again you stupid bloated fucks.

Left turns on main roads are pretty much banned in NJ. Ever hear of the NJ jughandle? Those fukkers figured out a long time ago that being a very densly populated state, they had best get a handle on traffic flow. And it works very well. Wanna see what happens in a densely populated area with utter shit for traffic flow planning, look at the boston area. What a fukkin' nightmare.

As for drunks, my take is that there should be different fines for different levels of buzzed and driving habits should come into play. A guy driving reasonably blows a .10 should face a much lower fine than someone who blows a .23 after being pulled over for doing 30 over on a local street. Unfortunately, that's not the way it works. Cops are forced to either look the other way and let someone go or nail him to the cross.

What I would really like to see cops do is start going after dumbfukks for stuff like driving in the passing lane, when not passing.

[H4ever]

[Siri]- Lots of things are dangerous comrades.
The most dangerous drug on the road is testosterone. Care to Ban it?
How about left turns? How dangerous are left turns do you want to outlaw them?
How about riding shotgun? Do you want to ban the passenger seat because it's the most dangerous seat in the car?
How about speeding? How much jail time should speeder do? How many thousands of dollars should the fine be? How many months of classes should speeders take?
Please try to get smarter before you post again you stupid bloated fucks.

Left turns on main roads are pretty much banned in NJ. Ever hear of the NJ jughandle? Those fukkers figured out a long time ago that being a very densly populated state, they had best get a handle on traffic flow. And it works very well. Wanna see what happens in a densely populated area with utter shit for traffic flow planning, look at the boston area. What a fukkin' nightmare.

As for drunks, my take is that there should be different fines for different levels of buzzed and driving habits should come into play. A guy driving reasonably blows a .10 should face a much lower fine than someone who blows a .23 after being pulled over for doing 30 over on a local street. Unfortunately, that's not the way it works. Cops are forced to either look the other way and let someone go or nail him to the cross.

What I would really like to see cops do is start going after dumbfukks for stuff like driving in the passing lane, when not passing.

rack it. zero tolerance is getting stupid. Like I said previously, ban alcohol (snicker....remember prohibition) or smarten the fuck up with enforcement and laws. I think incremental punishments make perfect sense. If you are twice the legal limit...yea, you deserve the book thrown at ya. First offense barely over? Common sense laws.

[Diego in Seattle]

DUI has definitely become a government-sponsored industry, and a profitable one at that.

Is drunk driving bad?

Duh.

Should it be illegal?

Duh.

Is it, as Moving Sale has alluded to (as much as it hurts to agree with him about anything), been the cause behind some ridiculously overblown regulations?

Hell yeah.

How many millions and millions of people drove drunk this weekend? A bunch... as in millions.

How many people died in drunk-driving related accidents over the weekend nationwide? 50? 100?

While "one" is one too many, if a person looks at actual statistics objectively, making it some great crusade that needs to villify people to their last dollar is ridiculous... just asinine, and the numbers don't add up.

That's what the civil court system is for. Cause a loss, pay accordingly.

So you're ok with someone walking down a street, twirling a gun by the trigger guard. They should only be prosecuted if they actually hit someone, right?

Dumbfuck.

[Diego in Seattle]

For those of you thinking it's only those who have very high BAC levels that are dangerous...think again. Those who have consumed a large amount of alcoholic beverages know they're shitfaced & try to drive carefully to avoid attracting attention. Those with "lower" b/a levels can be a greater danger in that the alcohol has effected their nervous system while lowering their inhibitions. Yeah, a driver who's impaired but has no inhibitions is a lot safer.

And rack Marty & Derron.

[Derron]

For an interesting Hollywood take on what we are discussing here, take in the movie "Flight" . I went and saw it yesterday, and while full of the usual Hollywood technical flaws and bullshit, it outlines a scenario, that is pretty outrageous.

Denzel and John Goodman got the coke snorting and drinking thing down pretty good here. No 8 hours bottle to throttle going on in this story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_%282012_film%29



It is based upon the crash of Alaska 261 in 2000, which is in interesting read itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261

[Derron]

We should spend our energy on outlawing birds that might fly into engines, or strong up and down drafts, they are more likely to cause crashes than pilots on drugs.

Gotcha. Must be related to global warming. We should really get to work on that.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Derron, that is just silly anyone should worry about a little blow or booze in a pilot's system while he is flying.

Actually Roach, one of the points that the movie was attempting to make, but ultimately backed away from, was that sometimes when an individual is inebriated, their performance can be enhanced. If the character played by Denzel Washington had not been high on coke and buzzed by a little vodka, he might not have risked the manuver that saves the plane and the passengers from a worse fate. Being in an slightly altered state is what allows him to not think but just react. It's a controversial perspective, but one that Zemeckis doesn't follow through with.

[Moving Sale]

Derron, that is just silly anyone should worry about a little blow or booze in a pilot's system while he is flying. We should spend our energy on outlawing birds that might fly into engines, or strong up and down drafts, they are more likely to cause crashes than pilots on drugs.

sig

That little lawyer who is usually pretty sane but this time has revealed himself as an ignorant ass.

Do you have any facts to back up your shit take onionhead?

[Moving Sale]

I'm not a pd and DUI is not as dangerous as you seem to think it is tard face, but by all means keep it up and don't worry that there are no facts to back you up.

[Derron]

Derron, that is just silly anyone should worry about a little blow or booze in a pilot's system while he is flying.

Actually Roach, one of the points that the movie was attempting to make, but ultimately backed away from, was that sometimes when an individual is inebriated, their performance can be enhanced. If the character played by Denzel Washington had not been high on coke and buzzed by a little vodka, he might not have risked the manuver that saves the plane and the passengers from a worse fate. Being in an slightly altered state is what allows him to not think but just react. It's a controversial perspective, but one that Zemeckis doesn't follow through with.

And if he had not been high and drunk, then he might not have done that thread the needle thing he called it taking the plane right between the 2 cells/microburst areas that he did. No way that happens with proper flight planning. As rough as it was shown, the passengers all would have easily got 10,000 free miles for that kind of turbulent ride. Bad choice in the movie . Just not going to happen.

As for his reaction time, even basic private pilots train for instinctive reactions to certain situations. You train, drill, practice and do it some more. Something happens, you already know what you need to do, and you just do it. I was with a friend this summer at 7500 feet and the engine started sputtering in the Maule. Then it quit. He was just like a robot, flaps down 10, full rich mixture, check the fuel selector knob, which was the problem, had not been securely moved to the other tank, corrected that and hit the key, and it fired right back up. No panic at all, then told me to pull out the checklist and we went over it all again. We both check the fuel selector switch now. No thinking, just as trained.

Flying a plane is a bit different than say playing the guitar. A lot of musicians play better buzzed, or completely fucked up for that matter. But flying a plane, and one like the MD 84 at 180,000 pounds, you better be stone cold fucking sober just about all the time. Those guys are getting paid to fly, paid fairly well, and it is a pretty damn good gig, and a lot of fun. Backing off the booze, weed and blow in exchange for a good career like that should not be that hard.

In the movie the co pilot fucked up too. He had every chance to call dude out for being fucked up and did not.

[Diego in Seattle]

I'm not a pd and DUI is not as dangerous as you seem to think it is tard face, but by all means keep it up and don't worry that there are no facts to back you up.

About 14-15,000 people every year find out first hand how truly stupid (if not self-serving) that statement is.

[Derron]

I'm not a pd and DUI is not as dangerous as you seem to think it is tard face, but by all means keep it up and don't worry that there are no facts to back you up.

About 14-15,000 people every year find out first hand how truly stupid (if not self-serving) that statement is.

No shit. If you have had a DUI, you have or had a drinking problem, and a judgement problem. No way to spin it any other way. Most people know damn good and well when they should not be driving after drinking. A decision to drive while under the influence or even buzzed says you have poor judgement and wish to put others at risk as yourself. Throw the fucking book at them.

Heard one on the police radio last month, gal was DUI, got arrested, and besides the DUI, the state cop hit her with 3 counts of reckless endangering, and 3 counts of reckless driving. Yep..the cunt had her kids in the car. She is probably going to get at least 5 years in the hole.

[H4ever]

I'm not a pd and DUI is not as dangerous as you seem to think it is tard face, but by all means keep it up and don't worry that there are no facts to back you up.

About 14-15,000 people every year find out first hand how truly stupid (if not self-serving) that statement is.

No shit. If you have had a DUI, you have or had a drinking problem, and a judgement problem. No way to spin it any other way. Most people know damn good and well when they should not be driving after drinking. A decision to drive while under the influence or even buzzed says you have poor judgement and wish to put others at risk as yourself. Throw the fucking book at them.

Heard one on the police radio last month, gal was DUI, got arrested, and besides the DUI, the state cop hit her with 3 counts of reckless endangering, and 3 counts of reckless driving. Yep..the cunt had her kids in the car. She is probably going to get at least 5 years in the hole.

That's one instance of zero tolerance I can agree with. If you're packing kids around in your sled, don't even think of drinking. In this state, by statute, the charge is felony child abuse/endangerment. One count per child. The most frequent offenders? Soccer moms. Yep....and they're not nice when they are advised what they are being charged with. Fuck em.

[ML@Coyote]

Heard one on the police radio last month, gal was DUI, got arrested, and besides the DUI, the state cop hit her with 3 counts of reckless endangering, and 3 counts of reckless driving. Yep..the cunt had her kids in the car. She is probably going to get at least 5 years in the hole.

That's one instance of zero tolerance I can agree with. If you're packing kids around in your sled, don't even think of drinking. In this state, by statute, the charge is felony child abuse/endangerment. One count per child. The most frequent offenders? Soccer moms. Yep....and they're not nice when they are advised what they are being charged with. Fuck em.

That's one instance? How about the kids put at risk by other drivers without kids who are drinking and driving? I don't understand your distinction. To my way of thinking, drinking and driving puts us all at risk, adults and cute little kids alike.

[Moving Sale]

I'm not a pd and DUI is not as dangerous as you seem to think it is tard face, but by all means keep it up and don't worry that there are no facts to back you up.

About 14-15,000 people every year find out first hand how truly stupid (if not self-serving) that statement is.

What are those numbers suppose to represent?

[Moving Sale]

To my way of thinking, drinking and driving puts us all at risk, adults and cute little kids alike.

Nobody else has been able to tell us how much risk it put 'us' in or why other things, like left turns, that are also dangerous are not, usually, illegal.
Would YOU care to back up your take?

[Moving Sale]

Most people know damn good and well when they should not be driving after drinking.

That is a fucking lie. Almost no one can tell when they go from .079 to .08.
Maybe if your parents were not cousins you wouldn't be so stupid.

[H4ever]

Heard one on the police radio last month, gal was DUI, got arrested, and besides the DUI, the state cop hit her with 3 counts of reckless endangering, and 3 counts of reckless driving. Yep..the cunt had her kids in the car. She is probably going to get at least 5 years in the hole.

That's one instance of zero tolerance I can agree with. If you're packing kids around in your sled, don't even think of drinking. In this state, by statute, the charge is felony child abuse/endangerment. One count per child. The most frequent offenders? Soccer moms. Yep....and they're not nice when they are advised what they are being charged with. Fuck em.

That's one instance? How about the kids put at risk by other drivers without kids who are drinking and driving? I don't understand your distinction. To my way of thinking, drinking and driving puts us all at risk, adults and cute little kids alike.

You have a point I can agree with to a certain extent. I believe there's a difference. Example: Some dude driving home after 3 beers in a couple hours who may or may not be over the limit....prob .07 to .09. Are children at risk? Sure. Just as much as they are at risk from 350 lb Jethro the truck driver who is in desperate need of a quadruple bypass (could have a massive heart attack and take out a school bus full of kids with his Peterbilt at any moment). Or perhaps Jethro, the chain-smoker w/ COPD might suffer a coughing spell that leads him to black out and again wipe out a bus full of kids. What are the odds of dude at .08 taking out a busload of kids? How bout Jethro the coast to coast driver about to go tits up at any moment?

Now...back to the impaired driver with the kids in the back of the car. See the difference?

[ML@Coyote]

To my way of thinking, drinking and driving puts us all at risk, adults and cute little kids alike.

Nobody else has been able to tell us how much risk it put 'us' in or why other things, like left turns, that are also dangerous are not, usually, illegal.
Would YOU care to back up your take?

Pay attention. The subject at hand is drinking and driving, not left turns. Road design is a separate subject. No matter how our roads are designed to work, drinking and driving makes them less safe. You are becoming background noise.

[Diego in Seattle]

I'm not a pd and DUI is not as dangerous as you seem to think it is tard face, but by all means keep it up and don't worry that there are no facts to back you up.

About 14-15,000 people every year find out first hand how truly stupid (if not self-serving) that statement is.

What are those numbers suppose to represent?

Which mail order law school did you get your degree from?

[Moving Sale]

You can deny the connection but YOUR stance is that it is dangerous and should therefore be banned.
First off none of you idiots has shown how dangerous it is.
Second if it is ok to ban the dangerous goose then why isn't it ok to ban the dangerous gander?
Are you really so senile that you can't see the relevance?

[Moving Sale]

Which mail order law school did you get your degree from?

Answer the question tard. What are those numbers supposed to represent? You posted them so put up or STFU you vapid flailing fuck.

[ML@Coyote]

You have a point I can agree with...

You should have stopped here.

[Diego in Seattle]

Which mail order law school did you get your degree from?

Answer the question tard. What are those numbers supposed to represent? You posted them so put up or STFU you vapid flailing fuck.

The number of alcohol-related deaths on our nation's highways. Sorry to use such secretive information, shorty.

[Moving Sale]

In case you came late to the party it has already be established that those numbers include drunk jaywalkers killed by sober drivers so they are shit. They also include DUI solo deaths and deaths where alcohol was never found to be a factor in the death which makes them even worse. Care to try again you stupid fuck?

[Diego in Seattle]

In case you came late to the party it has already be established that those numbers include drunk jaywalkers killed by sober drivers so they are shit. They also include DUI solo deaths and deaths where alcohol was never found to be a factor in the death which makes them even worse. Care to try again you stupid fuck?

So you're excluding DUI deaths where everyone else was lucky enough to have not been hit by the imbecile?

And would you care to link me up with evidence that alcohol wasn't a factor in "alcohol-related" deaths?

[Moving Sale]

So you're excluding DUI deaths where everyone else was lucky enough to have not been hit by the imbecile?

And would you care to link me up with evidence that alcohol wasn't a factor in "alcohol-related" deaths?

I'm also excluding deaths where there was NO drunk driving. Fancy that.
They are your stats but I'll hook you up anyways you stupid fuck.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Impaired
See how it says "alcohol-impaired driving crashes" and the number is 10,000? And those stats still have solo DUI deaths and deaths where the impaired person was killed by a sober driver.

"Alcohol-impaired-driving fatalities are fatalities that occur in motor vehicle traffic crashes that involve at least one driver or a motorcycle rider (operator) with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .08 grams per deciliter or above."
And pre2007, when most people formed their opinions as to the dangerousness of DUI, they didn't even have the above definition and included drunk jaywalkers.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810985.pdf

Eat a dick tard/s.

[Moving Sale]

Should I school you tards in partition ratio next?

[Mace]

Should I school you tards in partition ratio next?

Promise me you'll get REALLY fucked up every day from now on, and drive around just as much as you can - at really high speeds.

I was going to suggest that he get shit faced and start jaywalking. That way no one else gets hurt.

[Goober McTuber]

Should I school you tards in partition ratio next?

Promise me you'll get REALLY fucked up every day from now on, and drive around just as much as you can - at really high speeds.

I was going to suggest that he get shit faced and start jaywalking. That way no one else gets hurt.

I would suggest that he just stop posting, but I'm obviously kinder and gentler than most of you fuckers.