A serious question...

[Van]

Not really. If someone kills your child, merely sending them away to shack up with Gordon Lightfoot isn't nearly sufficient punishment.

[trev]

My point would be no tolerance on any crime. You commit a crime you are gonzo. I think it's the way to cut down on all crime.

[Diego in Seattle]

Not really. If someone kills your child, merely sending them away to shack up with Gordon Lightfoot isn't nearly sufficient punishment.

And sending them to shack up with Celine Dion would violate the 8th Amendment.

[Van]

My point would be no tolerance on any crime. You commit a crime you are gonzo. I think it's the way to cut down on all crime.

Simple deportation wouldn't be nearly a serious enough deterrent. Hell, if that's all a criminal has to fear then many would commit the crime fully hoping to be given a fresh start in a new country. It's not as if they necessarily have any great love for this one.

"Commit a crime! See the world on our dime!"

Nope, a better solution would be to execute anyone who uses a gun to commit a crime...or even anyone who is found to be in illegal possession of one. I'm sure TVO would have major issues with this, but so what? It would certainly do a bang-up job of reducing gun-crimes. I really don't care that it would constitute an infringement on their rights. Do you?

[FLW Buckeye]

Now if the criminal was to be released on a southbound iceberg, I can see how that might work. :twisted:

[Van]

Or drop 'em into Taliban-controlled areas of Afghanistan. Let 'em do their thing there.

[mvscal]

I am sure you've seen these rifles. They are so heavy that they are nearly impossible to carry. The recoil is huge. How would you defend yourself with one?

From a safe distance...

[mvscal]

Yet you think you can stop the US military with some hand guns or even AR-15's?

Yep. It worked gangbusters for partisans in the Soviet Union during WW2. It's working pretty well for the Taliban in Afghanistan as well. They've got us cowering in our bases while mark time until we leave.

[mvscal]

Nope, a better solution would be to execute anyone who uses a gun to commit a crime..

What if they use a knife or a hammer to commit a crime? Would that be OK?

[H4ever]

though some in this sordid clambake may doubt my political leanings ( yea...the GOP is fucked beyond repair), we do not need this tragedy to be used as political fodder to achieve gun control. I like the constitution...fuck all those who defy or try to undermine it

[kcdave]

88, brilliant.

[Rooster]

I always have to laugh when the argument that our military could and would put down an armed rebellion by our nation's citizens who are armed with handguns and various rifles, thus negating the 2nd Amendment. How quickly these individuals who make that claim forget that Vietnamese and Afghans are and have proven that idea wrong. Armed with little more than small arms, both entities managed to fight us to an attritionable retreat, one in the '70's, the other coming at the end of 2014.

And who is the military comprised of? Individuals who by-and-large are pro-gun, pro-2nd Amendment, arms enthusiasts-- of all types: big guns, little guns, automatic weapons, bows & arrows, the works. The military wouldn't put down an armed insurrection against our government over the destruction of our Constitution, they'd be leading it.

Get a clue, Lefties.

[Rooster]

Two thoughts concerning previous posts:
1) Having an armed guard or two at evey school covering a single entry point will keep the school children safe for approximately... oh, 10 minutes at the start of the day. It is well known that concerning guard posts that unless there is an immediate threat boredom and complacency set in, reducing the effectiveness of a guard to almost nothing. Granted, an argument could be made that after they hear gunfire inside the school building the guards would be on-scene to respond quickly, but they'd likely either be dead themselves or some children or teachers would already have been killed or injured by that time.

2) There are no gun laws in Afghanistan. None. Whatever a native can get his hands on is his until someone forcibly takes it away from them. That being said, the quickest way to either be killed or detained by Coalition forces is to openly brandish a weapon in public.

[War Wagon]

Having an armed guard or two at evey school covering a single entry point will keep the school children safe for approximately... oh, 10 minutes at the start of the day. It is well known that concerning guard posts that unless there is an immediate threat boredom and complacency set in, reducing the effectiveness of a guard to almost nothing.

disagree.

a perp knowing that an armed guard (even a bored one) is likely present will serve as an effective deterrent in most cases.

It's just waaay too easy for some sick fuck to walk in off the street and pull a stunt like this.

I'm not saying a guard would prevent a determined shooter, just that it's the bare minimum that should be done to protect schools, well worth the 40k a year or whatever it would cost.

[H4ever]

Having an armed guard or two at evey school covering a single entry point will keep the school children safe for approximately... oh, 10 minutes at the start of the day. It is well known that concerning guard posts that unless there is an immediate threat boredom and complacency set in, reducing the effectiveness of a guard to almost nothing.

disagree.

a perp knowing that an armed guard (even a bored one) is likely present will serve as an effective deterrent in most cases.

It's just waaay too easy for some sick fuck to walk in off the street and pull a stunt like this.

I'm not saying a guard would prevent a determined shooter, just that it's the bare minimum that should be done to protect schools, well worth the 40k a year or whatever it would cost.

40K a year, eh? Where you gonna find a competent guard, certified to carry a weapon in his duties for that price? Maybe local staffing agencies can find some unmotivated fuck with rap sheet chock full of questionable behavior and conduct to protect our children while he plays games on his smart phone because he just don't give a fuck about his low-paying job with shit benefits while mouthy little pricks walk by him daily and snicker at him?

But, then again, he might unionize and ask for some decent benefits and that would be soooo wrong and greedy of him. Fuck him....the staffing agencies have more just like him to carry a weapon and "protect" our children.

[H4ever]

Having an armed guard or two at evey school covering a single entry point will keep the school children safe for approximately... oh, 10 minutes at the start of the day. It is well known that concerning guard posts that unless there is an immediate threat boredom and complacency set in, reducing the effectiveness of a guard to almost nothing.

disagree.

a perp knowing that an armed guard (even a bored one) is likely present will serve as an effective deterrent in most cases.

It's just waaay too easy for some sick fuck to walk in off the street and pull a stunt like this.

I'm not saying a guard would prevent a determined shooter, just that it's the bare minimum that should be done to protect schools, well worth the 40k a year or whatever it would cost.

40K a year, eh? Where you gonna find a competent guard, certified to carry a weapon in his duties for that price? Maybe local staffing agencies can find some unmotivated fuck with rap sheet chock full of questionable behavior and conduct to protect our children while he plays games on his smart phone because he just don't give a fuck about his low-paying job with shit benefits while mouthy little pricks walk by him daily and snicker at him?

But, then again, he might unionize and ask for some decent benefits and that would be soooo wrong and greedy of him. Fuck him....the staffing agencies have more just like him to carry a weapon and "protect" our children.

[War Wagon]

nice double post there, H_retarded4ever.

For damn sure I wouldn't have you guarding my child's school.

[H4ever]

nice double post there, H_retarded4ever.

For damn sure I wouldn't have you guarding my child's school.

I'm sure you would rather have the aforementioned degenerate working for a shit wage do it whilst the execs of the agency he works for sit in their offices, count their money, and think about their next golf trip to Cabo. The children thank you.

[Derron]

There should be one door that allows access into a school, manned by an armed guard or 2 at all times.

Extreme measures are called for, this society just keeps getting sicker.

Brilliant idea there Wags. Care to explain the logistics of funneling 500 kids out one door if there is a fire or other evacuation required ?

[FLW Buckeye]

How about alarmed emergency exits?

[Arch Angel]

Even though I agree with mvscal about 90% of time, I don't here.

Being a strict conservative, I only have one caveat, it is gun control. Being in Wisconsin, a gun is okay for hunting and self defense, but a six shooter will do. But semi and fully automatic weapons, what are they needed for? If you want those weapons, you should not have them personally on you or in the house, being registered at a gun club is okay by me. Too many bad things happen, in the streets, at the mall, at a work place and at a school with 5 year olds who do not know how to duck under a desk if someone is shooting at you is something I don't understand.

I am a 2nd Amendment person but even that is stretching it with weapons our forefathers could not envision for "right to bear arms".

[MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan]

Having an armed guard or two at evey school covering a single entry point will keep the school children safe for approximately... oh, 10 minutes at the start of the day. It is well known that concerning guard posts that unless there is an immediate threat boredom and complacency set in, reducing the effectiveness of a guard to almost nothing.

disagree.

a perp knowing that an armed guard (even a bored one) is likely present will serve as an effective deterrent in most cases.

It's just waaay too easy for some sick fuck to walk in off the street and pull a stunt like this.

I'm not saying a guard would prevent a determined shooter, just that it's the bare minimum that should be done to protect schools, well worth the 40k a year or whatever it would cost.

40K a year, eh? Where you gonna find a competent guard, certified to carry a weapon in his duties for that price? Maybe local staffing agencies can find some unmotivated fuck with rap sheet chock full of questionable behavior and conduct to protect our children while he plays games on his smart phone because he just don't give a fuck about his low-paying job with shit benefits while mouthy little pricks walk by him daily and snicker at him?

But, then again, he might unionize and ask for some decent benefits and that would be soooo wrong and greedy of him. Fuck him....the staffing agencies have more just like him to carry a weapon and "protect" our children.

The saddest part is, at 40k/year he'd still be making more than the teachers he's ostensibly protecting.

[War Wagon]

I'm more concerned about protecting the kids.

[Diego in Seattle]

I'm more concerned about protecting the kids.

It was because of teacher Victoria Soto that more children survived.

[mvscal]

I am a 2nd Amendment person

No you're not.

[mvscal]

I'm more concerned about protecting the kids.

It was because of teacher Victoria Soto that more children survived.

By turning herself into a bullet sponge. Is that really the best we can hope for in this kind of scenario? We read all kinds of stories about people with incredible bravery and presence of mind in every one of these events. Real stories. Real people. But when the dicsussion turns to arming any of these extraordinary individuals we get real hysteria and real bullshit.

[Diego in Seattle]

Yet you think you can stop the US military with some hand guns or even AR-15's?

Yep. It worked gangbusters for partisans in the Soviet Union during WW2. It's working pretty well for the Taliban in Afghanistan as well. They've got us cowering in our bases while mark time until we leave.

And the same could happen here because our citizens have the same weaponry?





Doesn't everyone have those around here?

Nice try, slappy. You've established that your IQ is in the single digits.

[Mace]

Math teacher?



Vice Principal?

[mvscal]

Doesn't everyone have those around here?

They'll be easy enough to acquire. Soliders will desert and they will take their weapons with them. Others will get killed and their weapons will be taken from them. That's the way partisan warfare works. Your ignorance is noted but irrelevant.

[mvscal]

Math teacher?



Vice Principal?

You just kicked your own ass and you're too stupid to know it.

[Derron]

The saddest part is, at 40k/year he'd still be making more than the teachers he's ostensibly protecting.

You are kidding, right? My wife is a teacher. Her benefits are worth at least $20K per year alone. And her salary after five years exceeded $40K. Not particularly bad for 182 work days per year.

Exactly. A stepped out teacher( top of scale after 6 years), salary, full family health bennies is costed out in our district at 109K per year. Another $ 5, 400 at least to their their retirement account.

[Diego in Seattle]

Even securing the school building wouldn't be enough.

Sincerely,
Chowchilla 1976

[MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan]

The saddest part is, at 40k/year he'd still be making more than the teachers he's ostensibly protecting.

You are kidding, right? My wife is a teacher. Her benefits are worth at least $20K per year alone. And her salary after five years exceeded $40K. Not particularly bad for 182 work days per year.

I think we might need a new thread for this...

[mvscal]

In any event, perhaps my proposals err too much on the side opposite personal freedom, which is generally the wrong side of the equation to be on in my book.

Any thoughts?

Told you so. At least, you've come around.

[Mikey]

Any thoughts?

You can kill just as many people with a knife or a tire iron, so why would you need an assault rifle?

[Mikey]

to shoot the guy with the knife or the tire iron

duh......

Think you're pretty freaking smart, don't you.

[mvscal]

to shoot the guy with the knife or the tire iron

duh......

I guess it all boils down to the simple fact that some people just need killing and as long as those people are running around loose, we're going to need guns to kill them.

[Diego in Seattle]

Getting back to the topic at hand, I might have been a bit hasty with my proposal to limit the type and amount of guns in the hands of the public. I mentioned to one of the people I go shooting with quite frequently that I thought there ought to be limits on the types and amounts of guns owned by citizens of a civilized nation. I said that I thought there was little need for assault-type weapons, unless they were being used by militias to defend themselves from a tyrranical government, which I said I thought was very unlikely. He said I was looking at it all wrong, and that the reason why people should continue to be permitted to own such weapons is "what happens if the government collapses, like it did in the Soviet Union and in other places around the globe and there is no military or police force to protect you, your neighbors and your property?" He said he isn't afraid of the government because US soldiers would not carry out armed attacks against innocent people. He said he doubted any weapons he had would be effective if the government came after him. But he said if the shit hits the fan and the US government collapsed for some reason, he could see Americans joining together in small bands to protect themselves and their families from roving bands of other armed Americans. I also find that to be a very remote possibility. But less remote than the government coming down on everyone unless they are armed to the teeth. In any event, perhaps my proposals err too much on the side opposite personal freedom, which is generally the wrong side of the equation to be on in my book.

Any thoughts?

Yeah....Glen Beck has a sales pitch for your friend.

[Van]

Getting back to the topic at hand, I might have been a bit hasty with my proposal to limit the type and amount of guns in the hands of the public. I mentioned to one of the people I go shooting with quite frequently that I thought there ought to be limits on the types and amounts of guns owned by citizens of a civilized nation. I said that I thought there was little need for assault-type weapons, unless they were being used by militias to defend themselves from a tyrranical government, which I said I thought was very unlikely. He said I was looking at it all wrong, and that the reason why people should continue to be permitted to own such weapons is "what happens if the government collapses, like it did in the Soviet Union and in other places around the globe and there is no military or police force to protect you, your neighbors and your property?" He said he isn't afraid of the government because US soldiers would not carry out armed attacks against innocent people. He said he doubted any weapons he had would be effective if the government came after him. But he said if the shit hits the fan and the US government collapsed for some reason, he could see Americans joining together in small bands to protect themselves and their families from roving bands of other armed Americans. I also find that to be a very remote possibility. But less remote than the government coming down on everyone unless they are armed to the teeth. In any event, perhaps my proposals err too much on the side opposite personal freedom, which is generally the wrong side of the equation to be on in my book.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, I have one. How did you ever manage to become friends with Sam's ultra-right wing lunatic-fringe buddy?

[PSUFAN]

I'm not really a gun person. I would be in favor of sensible restrictions that would not hamper the rights of gun owners that can operate and secure them capably. I think that is possible.

However - I don't really think laws of that kind would do very much to prevent situations like Newtown. It seems much more pressing to me to look more closely at the state of mental health care in this country. Too many of the killers in these situations seem to have slipped through the cracks.