Boise State tells the Big East to screw

[Left Seater]

In totally unsurprising news Boise State will not be joining the Big Least.

Look for SMU Houston Navy et al to make similar announcements before spring practice.

[Cross Traffic]

BSU still owes a $10 mil exit fee, what a joke.

[Left Seater]

Reports late last night had that down to only $5 million and it sounds like the MWC will pay half of that fee.

[Dinsdale]

If the MWC could lure BYU back, that starts looking like a real conference.

[MuchoBulls]

Big East = pathetic.

Pretty much sums it up.

I do applaud the league for not agreeing to what Boise wanted.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Big East = pathetic.

Pretty much sums it up.

I do applaud the league for not agreeing to what Boise wanted.

As I understand it, that was complete control over their own TV rights, correct? Did the Mountain West agree to that?

Btw, Mucho, what will USF do if the Big East implodes? From where I sit, they look particularly screwed, unless they can somehow convince the C7 schools to take on their other sports teams. But I think the C7 are looking to form a more geographically compact conference.

Look for SMU Houston Navy et al to make similar announcements before spring practice.

Disagree on Navy (at least as to timing of the announcement) for a number of reasons:

1. Navy's schedule this year: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/teams/nna

Navy joined the Big East looking to beef up their schedule, and even with a watered-down Big East, they'll be able to do that. Off this year's schedule, they'd retain Army, Air Force, Notre Dame, East Carolina (assuming they stay in the Big East) and one other school, then replace the remainder with a Big East conference schedule. And this year's schedule was tougher for Navy than many of their more recent schedules.

Of course, if beefing up their schedule is the principal aim, they don't need to join the Big East to accomplish that.

2. The Big East doesn't have the impact on Navy's other sports teams that it does for many other schools. Navy is a football-only invite. Its other sports teams are, and will remain, in the Patriot League.

3. Most importantly, Navy isn't even scheduled to join the Big East until 2015. That's an eternity away, the way realignment has been heading recently, especially for a school slated to join the Big East. The decision may very well be made for them long before that point. At any rate, no sense rocking the boat this far out -- if I were Navy's AD, I'd take a wait-and-see approach right now.

As for SMU and Houston, I don't think they have a ton of options available. Sure, they could go back to C-USA, and that's a better fit for them on the map. But C-USA has been watered down, athletically speaking, in much the same manner as the Big East. Unless the other erstwhile C-USA members decide to return en masse, i don't think that's a very good option.

[MuchoBulls]

Big East = pathetic.

Pretty much sums it up.

I do applaud the league for not agreeing to what Boise wanted.

As I understand it, that was complete control over their own TV rights, correct? Did the Mountain West agree to that?

Btw, Mucho, what will USF do if the Big East implodes? From where I sit, they look particularly screwed, unless they can somehow convince the C7 schools to take on their other sports teams. But I think the C7 are looking to form a more geographically compact conference.

They have control over their home games, which is what they wanted from the Big East as well. I don't blame Boise for taking the deal, but if I am another team in that league I would be pissed. The 50/50 BCS money split is good if a MW conference team makes a BCS game.

Yes, we're pretty much screwed right now. The last 2 seasons hurt any shot we may have had in moving elsewhere (I still think we move up somewhere because realignment in the major conferences is not over yet). I know that USF, Cincinnati, Louisville and WVU met with the Big XII last year and we trying to work a package of all 4 programs joining. This was before the Big XII took TCU and eventually WVU.

Our athletic department hasn't been the same since Lee Roy Selmon had to step down. His passing last year has only made things worse. There is a lack of leadership in our administration and it has become very apparent over the last year.

[Terry in Crapchester]

They have control over their home games, which is what they wanted from the Big East as well.

That's basically what I expected, basically the same deal as ND except that ND doesn't play in a football conference.

I don't blame Boise for taking the deal, but if I am another team in that league I would be pissed.

True, Boise is the only team in that conference that can draw on TV worth a damn east of the Mississippi.

Yes, we're pretty much screwed right now. The last 2 seasons hurt any shot we may have had in moving elsewhere (I still think we move up somewhere because realignment in the major conferences is not over yet). I know that USF, Cincinnati, Louisville and WVU met with the Big XII last year and we trying to work a package of all 4 programs joining. This was before the Big XII took TCU and eventually WVU.

Our athletic department hasn't been the same since Lee Roy Selmon had to step down. His passing last year has only made things worse. There is a lack of leadership in our administration and it has become very apparent over the last year.

If the ACC loses Florida State and/or Miami, I think you're the first replacement choice. If they lose anyone else, you're probably behind UConn, Cincinnati and possibly Temple. I could be wrong about this, but I think the ACC wants two Florida schools in the conference, no more and no less.

I don't see any other options for you, unless possibly the Big XII decides to expand.

So your best option at this point may be to try to keep the Big East together, as best as possible. Nobody really wants to be part of it anymore (save possibly for East Carolina), but at the same time, I don't see a better option for anyone who's still there. Folding the Big East, but keeping the schools together as a loose consortium of football independents, may be the next best move. But the problem then becomes finding homes for other sports. I think you'd be screwed in that regard as well, unless you could possibly convince either the C7 or the A10 to take you.

[Felix]

If the MWC could lure BYU back, that starts looking like a real conference.

agreed.....look for san diego state to bail on the big east within the next few days

[MuchoBulls]

If the ACC loses Florida State and/or Miami, I think you're the first replacement choice. If they lose anyone else, you're probably behind UConn, Cincinnati and possibly Temple. I could be wrong about this, but I think the ACC wants two Florida schools in the conference, no more and no less.

I don't see any other options for you, unless possibly the Big XII decides to expand.

So your best option at this point may be to try to keep the Big East together, as best as possible. Nobody really wants to be part of it anymore (save possibly for East Carolina), but at the same time, I don't see a better option for anyone who's still there. Folding the Big East, but keeping the schools together as a loose consortium of football independents, may be the next best move. But the problem then becomes finding homes for other sports. I think you'd be screwed in that regard as well, unless you could possibly convince either the C7 or the A10 to take you.

I think the ACC is the only realistic option for us. The Big XII ship sailed once they took TCU and WVU. The Big XII wants to be in Florida and they will do so by taking FSU and maybe Miami.

Not sure there is a way to keep the Big East together, especially since Cincinnati and UConn want out just as much as we do.

[MuchoBulls]

I fully expect SDSU to stay in the MWC, but it is being rumored that they plan on staying with the Big East. If true, then I would hope Aresco is on the phone with Fresno State (Big East had apparently already talked with them before Boise went back to the MWC) and potentially UNLV and Nevada.

[Felix]

I fully expect SDSU to stay in the MWC, but it is being rumored that they plan on staying with the Big East. If true, then I would hope Aresco is on the phone with Fresno State (Big East had apparently already talked with them before Boise went back to the MWC) and potentially UNLV and Nevada.

the big east isn't that big anymore....with all the teams bailing out, they'll be lucky if they can get a tv contract from versus

[Terry in Crapchester]

I fully expect SDSU to stay in the MWC, but it is being rumored that they plan on staying with the Big East. If true, then I would hope Aresco is on the phone with Fresno State (Big East had apparently already talked with them before Boise went back to the MWC) and potentially UNLV and Nevada.

I wouldn't rule out New Mexico or Air Force either, although I think Air Force might be a bit of a longshot.

In SDSU's case, I think the appeal of the big East was initially based on basketball. And even with all the hits the Big East has taken, a conference that still includes UConn, Cincinnati, Temple and Memphis is probably still a better basketball conference than the Mountain West. I'm not saying that SDSU will stay in the Big East for certain, but if the Big East were to offer all-sports membership, it wouldn't surprise me if they stayed.

[MuchoBulls]

SDSU was only coming in for football only, but here is a potential 16 team league that could work as an all sports conference.

EAST - USF, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, ECU, Temple, Memphis, Navy
WEST - Tulane, Houston, SMU, SDSU, Fresno State, Nevada, UNLV, Air Force

In all other sports outside of football you only play the teams in your division during the regular season. Post season tournaments would include all teams.

I think the Big East could get all the other MWC teams I mentioned if Aresco was aggressive enough. Most of those MWC teams cannot be happy with the deal given to Boise.

[Left Seater]

Why not just make two conferences out of those divisions and add a few teams to each. Seems to make more sense than an nation wide conf of mostly mid majors.

There is talk here locally of creating a new Southwest conference. Teams mentioned include:

Rice
Cougar High
SMU
UTEP
UT San Antonio
Texas State
Tulane
New Mexico

Others being discussed:
Tulsa
Memphis
LA Tech
Air Force


It makes sense on multiple levels and would be a decent mid major conference.

[MuchoBulls]

Why not just make two conferences out of those divisions and add a few teams to each.

That would be fine with me.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Why not just make two conferences out of those divisions and add a few teams to each. Seems to make more sense than an nation wide conf of mostly mid majors.

There is talk here locally of creating a new Southwest conference. Teams mentioned include:

Rice
Cougar High
SMU
UTEP
UT San Antonio
Texas State
Tulane
New Mexico

Others being discussed:
Tulsa
Memphis
LA Tech
Air Force


It makes sense on multiple levels and would be a decent mid major conference.

North Texas makes some sense in the discussion, assuming you can't get everyone named, as does New Mexico State, which would jump at such an offer.

Fwiw, I've also heard UConn floating the idea of a new conference, with the following names being mentioned:

UConn
Cincinnati
Temple
Memphis
New Mexico
San Diego State
UNLV
Nevada

And possibly a few others.

That's a very intriguing conference -- IF we're talking college basketball. Unfortunately for UConn, football is what's driving the bus here. This conference would be no better, and quite possibly worse, than the current Big East, and has as many, if not more, travel nightmares.

I suppose it might make sense on some level to rid themselves of the Big East brand name. But if that's the issue, then simply give the name to the C7 schools (who would gladly take it) and rename the football conference.

[Left Seater]

Don't just give it to them, charge them for the name.

[MuchoBulls]

Fwiw, I've also heard UConn floating the idea of a new conference, with the following names being mentioned:

UConn
Cincinnati
Temple
Memphis
New Mexico
San Diego State
UNLV
Nevada

And possibly a few others.

The "few others" are USF, UCF, and BYU.

[Left Seater]

A coast to coast conference made up of "lower level AQ schools" (for lack of another term) makes zero sense. Travel time and cost make that a non starter. Fresno to Cincy for a Wednesday night women's basketball game means a Tuesday morning commercial flight. Followed by a Thursday commercial return flight. That just doesn't work unless the TV contract breaks some record.

[MuchoBulls]

A coast to coast conference made up of "lower level AQ schools" (for lack of another term) makes zero sense. Travel time and cost make that a non starter. Fresno to Cincy for a Wednesday night women's basketball game means a Tuesday morning commercial flight. Followed by a Thursday commercial return flight. That just doesn't work unless the TV contract breaks some record.

I agree. I was not in favor of that proposed league that UConn and Cincinnati wanted to start.

I think the proposed league I posted earlier in the thread could work because there have to be some MWC programs who are pissed at the deal Boise State signed.

[Terry in Crapchester]

A coast to coast conference made up of "lower level AQ schools" (for lack of another term) makes zero sense. Travel time and cost make that a non starter. Fresno to Cincy for a Wednesday night women's basketball game means a Tuesday morning commercial flight. Followed by a Thursday commercial return flight. That just doesn't work unless the TV contract breaks some record.

I agree. I was not in favor of that proposed league that UConn and Cincinnati wanted to start.

I think the proposed league I posted earlier in the thread could work because there have to be some MWC programs who are pissed at the deal Boise State signed.

I don't necessarily disagree, but there are some potential problems.

For instance, I don't think that deal will get BYU into the Big East. Seems to me that BYU is trying to become the Mormon ND, and that they're looking at football independence as a necessary component of that. Also, Air Force has said no to the Big East now twice that I know of. Not saying they wouldn't relent under the right circumstances, but I think they may have a different take on athletics than many other schools. I think they're looking at Division I sports as a means to promote the school's overall mission, not so much as a cash cow. And if they do join the Big East, I could see them wanting to play Navy in every sport, which means that you might need at least a few crossover games between the two divisions to make scheduling work. It's also worth noting that a few of the schools in differing divisions (e.g., Memphis and SMU) would actually be closer to one another, geographically speaking, than to many of their divisional rivals.

In any event, the Big East will have to convince SDSU to stay onboard, otherwise the idea of western expansion (i.e., west of Houston/SMU) is dead.

[MuchoBulls]

Apparently the Big East is trying to go after Tulsa and........UMass?? Whatever already.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Apparently the Big East is trying to go after Tulsa and........UMass?? Whatever already.

Tulsa makes sense, athletically speaking, plus pretty close to some of the more recent additions (Houston, SMU, Tulane). UMass will need quite awhile to get its football program up to standards. They're trying to shoehorn UMass into the conference for geographic reasons, i.e., retain a tie to the northeast, nothing more.

But the more I think about it, the more I think the Big East will never really go away. Two reasons behind that. First, the realignment that has happened so far has been piecemeal, and there's been enough time in between moves to allow the Big East to replenish its ranks. So there will always be somebody left behind, no matter how often the Big East is raided. No reason to think that won't continue.

The second reason is that an immutable pecking order has emerged among the conferences. For those conferences that are mostly, if not entirely, east of the Continental Divide (and therefore, most likely to be active in the realignment musical chairs scenarios), the order is as follows:

The B1G and SEC are at the very top of the pecking order, followed thereafter by the Big XII (note for SCS: I'm talking about strength off the field, not on it). Following that, the order is

ACC
Big East
C-USA
Sun Belt
FCS

At this point, most of the Big East programs that other conferences want have already been raided. That means that the ACC is probably the most vulnerable conference to a raid from the power conferences. If/when that happens, the ACC will raid the Big East, which in turn will raid C-USA, which in turn will raid the Sun Belt, which in turn will replenish its ranks from FCS.

For all the hits the Big East has taken, the conference still retains greater cache than those conferences below it, and teams from C-USA which are targeted by the Big East will continue to see a move to the Big East as a promotion of sorts.

I'm not saying that the chain cannot be broken, but if it does break, it is more likely to break at the last link than in the middle. At least in this case.

Also, note that I left the MAC out of this. For the most part, the MAC hasn't been involved in the realignment scenario, due at least in part to the fact that there hasn't been a breakout athletic program within that conference from among the core members of the conference. But as C-USA continues to be depleted, I could very easily see the Big East tapping the MAC next.

[MuchoBulls]

I agree about Tulsa and I think it was the next logical step.

I understand why they would look at UMass, but I just think it would be a bad move at this point in time.

[Terry in Crapchester]

In sports other than football, UMass would probably be a pretty good add.

But in football, they're likely to be the conference bottom-feeder for awhile to come. And unfortunately for the Big East, football is what's driving realignment. At least right now, Marshall probably would've made more sense.

Is the Big East definitely losing SDSU? That would seem to me to be the only scenario where they'd even consider UMass.

[MuchoBulls]

That's why I wouldn't mind Tulsa at all.

[Terry in Crapchester]

That's why I wouldn't mind Tulsa at all.

I think Tulsa would replace Boise. Not sure why UMass would be considered, unless as a contingency option in case SDSU leaves.

[MuchoBulls]

That's why I wouldn't mind Tulsa at all.

I think Tulsa would replace Boise. Not sure why UMass would be considered, unless as a contingency option in case SDSU leaves.

I think the contingency is to get ECU and/or Tulane in for 2013.

[Left Seater]

Is the Big East definitely losing SDSU?

You have to lean towards yes now that USAToday had a blurb yesterday that SDSU met with four other MWC schools about staying.

[MuchoBulls]

They should go back if Aresco isn't isn't going after other MWC programs.

I also wonder if the 4 programs they talked to aren't programs that they are trying to persudae to leave the MWC. My guess would be the 4 programs they spoke to are Fresno State, UNLV, Nevada and Air Force.

[Left Seater]

Now SDSU has told the Big East to pound sand.

SMU will be next.

[MuchoBulls]

Not surprising about SDSU.

I don't see SMU going to the MWC.

[Left Seater]

I agree that they won't be in the MWC.

I could even see where they play in the Big East for a year and then move to a newly created conf before Tulane joins the Big East.

[MuchoBulls]

I could even see where they play in the Big East for a year and then move to a newly created conf before Tulane joins the Big East.

Makes a great deal of sense.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I agree that they won't be in the MWC.

I could even see where they play in the Big East for a year and then move to a newly created conf before Tulane joins the Big East.

Where would they go?

Thompson said the Mountain West won't go beyond 12. Of course, that and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, but if he's being honest about it (for now, anyway), that would preclude any new members.

C-USA has lost its best programs to the Big East. They're replacing them with members of the Sun Belt Conference. And those are the better adds. One of C-USA's projected members for next year was playing 1-AA ball as recently as last season. Travel would be better, but is the travel difference enough to make up for the drop in play?

I know you've mentioned talk of a new SWC, but that, as well, would be an athletic step down from the Big East, at least as presently constituted.

What I could see happening: a large-scale raid of the ACC combined from the B1G, SEC and Big XII, that leaves the ACC taking virtually all the eastern Big East schools as replacements. Houston, Memphis, SMU and Tulane form a new SWC along with Tulsa and some of the other western members of C-USA, maybe also including schools like New Mexico, New Mexico State, Colorado State and/or Air Force.