terrorsts dry runs, cockpit doors, safety in our skies

[Wolfman]

This topic has been piqued by reading about possible terrorist "dry runs" on the net and my recent flying travel experience.
Since 9/11, cockpit doors have been reinforced and kept closed during flight. I watch to see when it is closed, because I know then we are pushing off and on our way. It gives me some sense of safety to know that at that point, some terrorist is not going to rush the flight deck, secure the door behind him and take control of the plane. Am I correct in feeling that way?
I read that sometimes the cockpit door is actually opened so that the crew can use the toilet or be brought refreshment. I do not recall seeing that on my flights. I also read that if they do open the cockpit door, there is a procedure that should be followed to help keep the cockpit safe. Of course, I hope that the crew voids themselves before they board the plane.
I also read that Israeli planes have a double door system the even further ensures security on the flight deck. I read that so far, US airlines have been hesitant to install such systems because of their cost.
I have this sinking feeling that the Islamist terrorist will seek to do us great harm using airplanes again. Crashing them say into Disneyworld in Florida would really cause chaos which is what they would like to inflict on us.
Looking for responses and input, especially from our "winged" members.

[Mikey]

I think you should be scared, very scared. It could happen on any flight you take. In fact they're probably waiting just for YOU to get on a plane.
And when it happens it'll be 100% Barry Obama's fault for shutting down the government.

BTW, do you always check to see where the AED is, and when it was last tested? You should be more worried about an AMI than a terrorist attack.

[Left Seater]

Different airlines have different procedures. Some have a waitress stand between the cockpit and the crapper. Others require the waitress to use a drink cart to block the aisle.

All a silly show. As KC said if a rag head rushes the front of the plane there will be half the plane on him in three seconds.

You prolly haven't seen the pilots leave the flight deck due to the shortness of your recent flights. A quick 2 hour flight and those guys really don't have much time. A cross country or cross ocean flight and they will be in and out of there multiple times.

Don't forget we alston have air marshall's on many many flights. Granted everyone knows who they are by the way they dress and carry themselves. Blend in they don't.

I lose 0 seconds of sleep worrying about a rag head using a plane again.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Don't forget we alston have air marshall's

4x12"'s? How do they sound?

They've got a sweet low end. Never clip.

[Left Seater]

Please let's not be talking this shit. I may have to fly to Tampa soon. My back isn't gonna let me ride the bike.

I am not comfortable in the air as it is. I damn sure don't need y'all talking this shit!

Guess I could avoid this board 'til I get back. If I get back, that is.

You would seriously ride a bike for 9 plus hours vs a non stop flight of 80 minutes? Not sure how this is even worth a second thought.

Seriously though, people approach me all the time while wearing the uniform and confess an outright fear of flying or some degree of discomfort at each bump or noise. I think this is mostly due to a lack of understanding of the dynamics of flight. Further if the waitresses don't look worried, then there really isn't anything for you to worry about.

If you fall into the type that get nervous at every sound, then book flights on Boeing metal. They are far quieter than the bus. Especially on the ground. The bus hydraulic system pumps are just under the main deck floor and drive some people crazy. They are loud and are working thru much of the taxi while the pilots set up in take off config or clean up prior to arriving at the gate.

[Mikey]

Love me a good road trip, even though I don't have a bike. Some day I'll have time to do them more often.

Next week, though, will be epoch

Home, Monterey (Pacific Grove), Napa, Mendocino, Cambria (and Hearst Castle), home. Seven nights, eight days, lots of wine. Lots of Sirius XM.

[Left Seater]

Nonstop? Two of the flights I checked into have a single stop...in Houston!!! Let's see...Birmingham to Tampa. Yeah, Houston makes sense. I know how all that works...but it still seems a little outta the way.

Nah...flying just makes no sense to me. I like to keep my feet on the ground. SEC! SEC! SEC!

Then again, the prices are outrageous. I don't want to buy the damn plane...I just wanna ride in it.

Yep, two flights a day non-stop on Southwest each direction.

Why do you hate physics? :wink:

I understand that flying can be expensive at times but understand what the airlines are taking and what the government takes. Let's look at the non-stop fare on Southwest between BHM and TPA for a Wed in December. For the one way fare you will pay $111.00 to Southwest when you book the ticket. However, Southwest will only take $90.62 of that themselves. It breaks down as follows:

Southwest fare portion: $90.62
Federal Excise Tax: $6.98
Federal Segment Fee: $3.90
Federal Security Fee: $5.00
Airport Facility Fee: $4.50

So roughly 14.3% of the cost of your ticket is taxes to the Feds. Another 4% of the cost of the ticket is taxes to airports you use. So over 18% of the cost of the ticket is taxes.

Also, important to remember is that each airport, BHM and TPA are going to charge a landing fee to the airline for using their airport. So in the above example, roughly $10.00 of your fare of $90.62 is going to TPA airport as part of the landing fee charged to Southwest. So in the end Southwest is only taking $80 to get you to TPA.

[Mikey]

Sounds eerily similar to my run of Capps, Perry, Chiefland, Otter Creek, Homossassa and Weeki Wachee.

Lots of log trucks, toothless hitchhikers, tattoed skanks, and people even older than me.

I'll be driving through a lot of old agricultural area on California 101 between LA and Monterey. A little longer than Interstate 5 but a lot less boring. I'm going to try and stop in Salinas to see the John Steinbeck center there. After that, though, I imagine it'll be mostly yuppies and former yuppies.

If we have time we'll take the coast (CA 1) on the way back south to Cambria (through Big Sur, etc.)

[Goober McTuber]

When we returned from Italy last fall, we flew Alitalia from Palermo to Rome for $90. According to Alitalia, that was a $10 fare and $80 in taxes and fees. I shit you not.

[Left Seater]

When we returned from Italy last fall, we flew Alitalia from Palermo to Rome for $90. According to Alitalia, that was a $10 fare and $80 in taxes and fees. I shit you not.

I don't doubt that at all. Many carriers break out damn near everything into a fee so they can show a lower "fare". This practice is now illegal in the US and carriers have to show all taxes and required fees in with the fare.

But just looking at a random day in January for a round trip from LA to Shanghai we see the actual fare is only $300 round trip. But Air China breaks out the fuel and crew costs as separate line items. So the round trip fare is $300, plus "fees" and taxes. In China this trip can be advertised as a $300 round trip to the US. Here however, this is advertised as an $848 round trip.


Fare 1: Carrier CA UX37PR LAX to SHA $150.00
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code U
Covers LAX-PEK (Economy), PEK-SHA (Economy)

Fare 2: Carrier CA UX37PR SHA to LAX (rules) $150.00
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code U
Covers SHA-PEK (Economy), PEK-LAX (Economy)

People's Republic of China Airport Fee (CN) $31.10
CA YR surcharge (YR) (Fuel Fee) $309.20
CA YQ surcharge (YQ) $8.00
CA YC surcharge (YC) (Crew Fee) $140.00
US International Departure Tax (US) $17.20
US September 11th Security Fee (AY) $2.50
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF) $4.50
USDA APHIS Fee (XA) $5.00
US Immigration Fee (XY) $7.00
US Customs Fee (YC) $5.50
US International Arrival Tax (US) $17.20

Subtotal per passenger $847.20
Number of passengers x1

Total airfare & taxes $847.20


One reason airlines break out some of the cost into fees is due to contracts they have with large corporations and governments. The Feds usually get a 15% discount on the fare, but not the fees. This allows the airlines to get more money from the Feds than it would if all the costs were in the fare bucket. This also allows airlines to rapidly change fares by just adjusting fuel fees for example.

[Goober McTuber]

Siiiigh, it ain't Sideways, but it's what I got.

You're in the South. We call it Backwards.

[Left Seater]

Y'all are making my heart break for Southwest and all the airlines, but I still can't make myself fork over that much money when I can ride down there, seeing the sights, for so much less. More money to spend on the kids once I get there.

Got a new grandson waiting for me. He expects his granddad to still have the balls to get on a bike and ride 500 miles to see him. The balls ain't a problem...it's the back that concerns me. But...for the new little booger, I gotta try.

Let's see...I can visit the ancient capitol building in Monticello, the pulpwood yards around Perry, the mermaids in Wikki Wachee, the bars filled with tanned, tatted up sleazebag women, and the Cypress Inn restaurant with the great collards and meatloaf in Cross City.

Siiiigh, it ain't Sideways, but it's what I got.

Are you really sure that it is so much cheaper to ride down there?

Granted I don't know the MPG you get out of your bike, but just assuming you rode the 500 miles all on the interstate and got 50mpg doing so you would use 10 gallons of gas. Granted you said you were going to stop and see the sights along the way so your mpg is prolly less. But using the best case senario, you will spend about $35 on gas to get there. Add in all those stops above and the 500 mile trip is a two day journey for sure. Not to mention a single day 500 mile ride on your back. That means a hotel along the way somewhere. Even a flea bag hotel that attracts Rein Fairies will run you $49 a night plus tax. Now add to that the cost for 4 additional meals at least vs flying and you are pretty much at the $111 you would have spent to fly.

The bonus of flying is your back doesn't hurt when you arrive and you can play with the grandson right away instead of waiting three days to pick him up. :P

[Left Seater]

So at the most you are saving about $25 to ride.

Rolling the dice with the back for $25. Only you know if it is worth that.

[Mikey]

Not a biker, so forgive my ignorance, but 40 mpg?
I get 45 in my car and it has cup holders (doesn't attract too many chicks though).

[Left Seater]

Well, back to Wolfie's point in this thread...

Terrorists are highly unlikely to be plotting to hijack my motorcycle. Therefore I won't be forced to ride really fast into any buildings, stadiums, amusement parks, etc.

That, in itself, gives me great peace of mind...which I would not have whilst riding in a plane.

On the bike, I know the guy in charge...ME. In a plane, I don't know the guy flying it.

On the bike, I know who's behind me...NO ONE. In a plane, I'd be checking out everyone with an accent, swarthy appearance, or a Koran.

While you have the controls of the bike, you hardly have control over the others you are sharing the roads with. The mom in the minivan losing her mind and shouting at her kids that crosses the centerline right in front of you. Or the truck driver on the last hour of his 10 hour haul who doesn't see you and changes lanes into you.

You are far far safer in the air than you are on your bike, regardless of what you might feel.

[Goober McTuber]

Not a biker, so forgive my ignorance, but 40 mpg?
I get 45 in my car and it has cup holders (doesn't attract too many chicks though).

Trust me. It's not the car.

[Mikey]

Not a biker, so forgive my ignorance, but 40 mpg?
I get 45 in my car and it has cup holders (doesn't attract too many chicks though).

Trust me. It's not the car.

Why should I trust you?

[Derron]

Well, back to Wolfie's point in this thread...

.which I would not have whilst riding in a plane.

On the bike, I know the guy in charge...ME. In a plane, I don't know the guy flying it.

On the bike, I know who's behind me...NO ONE. In a plane, I'd be checking out everyone with an accent, swarthy appearance, or a Koran.

We differ on the peace of mind in a plane. The minute the wheels of my aircraft leave the ground, I am away from close proximity to assholes who do not know how to drive. I can easily see all aircraft in a 15 mile radius, and know that no one is likely to run into me in the next few minutes. It is truly a relaxed feeling up there. Even now, my flying tends to be low for sight seeing, unless crossing problematic terrain or conditions.

As for the person flying the plane, if he / she has made ATP and is flying at that level, there is some competence involved.

My son asked me the other day if he could build a hanger and build this aircraft at my place.

Hell yeah.....

http://www.cubcrafters.com

[Diego in Seattle]

Not a biker, so forgive my ignorance, but 40 mpg?
I get 45 in my car and it has cup holders (doesn't attract too many chicks though).

I've got a cup holder on my bike ....bfd. And I can see a whole lot more of the scenery as well.

SS;
Depending on who you fly with, you might be just as at risk for back pain by flying as well. Some of those seats are brutal for flights lasting more than an hour.

[Goober McTuber]

Not a biker, so forgive my ignorance, but 40 mpg?
I get 45 in my car and it has cup holders (doesn't attract too many chicks though).

Trust me. It's not the car.

Why should I trust you?

I've been around.

[Wolfman]

...learn to fly

Cue up Tom Petty.

[Goober McTuber]

Maybe that's what I need to do...learn to fly.

What could possibly go wrong?

[Left Seater]

Not a biker, so forgive my ignorance, but 40 mpg?
I get 45 in my car and it has cup holders (doesn't attract too many chicks though).

I've got a cup holder on my bike ....bfd. And I can see a whole lot more of the scenery as well.

SS;
Depending on who you fly with, you might be just as at risk for back pain by flying as well. Some of those seats are brutal for flights lasting more than an hour.

An hour and 20 in the air where he can stand up and walk around for some of that time as well, vs 9 plus hours of constant jarring.

[Mikey]

I've got a cup holder on my bike ....bfd.

I have four.

And I can see a whole lot more of the scenery as well.

Questionable at best.

[Mikey]

I've been around.

Around what?

70 years old?
300 lb?
A lot of glory holes?

[Goober McTuber]

I've been around.

Around what?

300 lb?

You, of all people, are trying to call someone else fat?

[Mikey]

I've been around.

Around what?

300 lb?

You, of all people, are trying to call someone else fat?

So, you've been around a lot of glory holes?
Not too surprising.

[Goober McTuber]

Around what?

300 lb?

You, of all people, are trying to call someone else fat?

So, you've been around a lot of glory holes?
Not too surprising.

The ones in God's Country are staffed by young women. Is it different where you live?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Do the flight attendants have the ability to open the cockpit door, assuming it stays closed and locked the whole time? If so, couldn't the terrrrrrists just take one of them hostage and force them to open the door?

[Left Seater]

Do the flight attendants have the ability to open the cockpit door, assuming it stays closed and locked the whole time? If so, couldn't the terrrrrrists just take one of them hostage and force them to open the door?

Not on all the US airlines that I am familiar with. When the flight deck is occupied, the door must be opened from the inside. What usually happens when the waitress wants to bring food or drink to the cockpit is the waitress will pick up the intercom and use a word that is code for I am not being forced to do this. In your example the code word would be omitted. This is similar to many other security measures in airports and other buildings. For example my brother who works at the Portland Int Airport and has access to every building and space there has a way to notify police without saying a word. If he was taken hostage and forced to use his badge to open secure doors, he would swipe his badge from bottom to top. The system will still read it and immediately notify police.

[Goober McTuber]

On a passenger flight, the pilot comes over the public address system as usual and to greet the passengers. He tells them at what altitude they’ll be flying, the expected arrival time, and a bit about the weather, and advises them to relax and have a good flight.. Then, forgetting to turn off the microphone, he says to his co-pilot, "What would relax me right now is a cup of coffee and a blowjob." All the passengers hear it. As a stewardess immediately begins to run toward the cockpit to tell the pilot of his slip-up, one of the passengers stops her and says "Don’t forget the coffee!"

[Mikey]

So, you've been around a lot of glory holes?
Not too surprising.

The ones in God's Country are staffed by young women. Is it different where you live?

At least that's what they're telling you through the wall..

[Goober McTuber]

So, you've been around a lot of glory holes?
Not too surprising.

The ones in God's Country are staffed by young women. Is it different where you live?

At least that's what they're telling you through the wall..

You seem to be claiming significant knowledge regarding Midwest glory holes. You pitching or catching? A friend in Grand Rapids wants to know.

[Diego in Seattle]

I've got a cup holder on my bike ....bfd.

I have four.

Sounds like you have a drinking problem. I only need one.

And I can see a whole lot more of the scenery as well.

Questionable at best.

I'll assume your naivete comes from never having ridden. Going through the mountains east of here there's a world of difference between what I can see while riding in a cage & what I can see riding on my bike. The only time a cage gets over on a bike is when the roads are icy.

[Dinsdale]

I've got a cup holder on my bike ....bfd.

I have four.

Sounds like you have a drinking problem. I only need one.

And I can see a whole lot more of the scenery as well.

Questionable at best.

I'll assume your naivete comes from never having ridden. Going through the mountains east of here there's a world of difference between what I can see while riding in a cage & what I can see riding on my bike. The only time a cage gets over on a bike is when the roads are icy.

And you see quite a bit more on a bicycle -- just takes longer to get there.

And my bicycle has two drink holders - they fit a 24oz beer can about perfectly. Usually gets me to the next store.

[Wolfman]

Every time I see this, I picture Sam cruising the back roads of Alabama.