We're talkin' Rock & Roll

[War Wagon]

But if you don't want to see a cover of the damn song, then don't watch it.

Too late, I did.

The most upsetting part is watching Robert Plant trying to hold his bile down, and then standing up to applaud, like a whore applauding an abortion.

That was probably the part you most appreciated.

[Goober McTuber]

You guys are probably big fans of Tommy Roe as well?

The Beatles were the opening act for Tommy Roe during Roe's British tour in 1963. Roe, was, of course, upstaged.

One of my college roommates told me about the first concert he ever went to in New Jersey around the age of 14. The Monkees. Opening act was a three-piece band fronted by some crazy black guitar player. Quite the Experience, I guess.

[BSmack]

The most upsetting part is watching Robert Plant trying to hold his bile down, and then standing up to applaud, like a whore applauding an abortion.

I don't even like Heart that much (except for Bebe Le Strange and a few other early things) but that freaking rocked. BTW, he was crying because his best mate's son was paying a very subtle tribute to his long departed father with his choice of headwear.

[Mikey]

One of my college roommates told me about the first concert he ever went to in New Jersey around the age of 14. The Monkees. Opening act was a three-piece band fronted by some crazy black guitar player. Quite the Experience, I guess.

I've always thought that has to be the strangest pairing of bands ever put together.

There was a short period in the early 70s, when I was in HS, when the powers that be decided not to allow any more "rock" concerts at Frost Amphitheater on the Stanford campus because the crowds were getting too rowdy, climbing over the fences, etc.. This was/is an amazing venue for shows - a gently sloping, grass covered, terraced audience area completely surrounded by trees. I think it held about 7,000 or 8,000 people when full.



My first rock concert ever was Sly and the Family Stone there in 1969.

Anyhow, during the rock music hiatus, I saw a show there that was nominally not rock, but about the strangest combination of band imaginable.

Miles Davis - doing Bitches Brew type improvisational jazz
NRPS - if you don't know the New Riders of the Purple Sage, they were sort of a psychedelic country rock band that was in part an offshoot of the late 60s Dead scene. Their most remembered recording was probably "Panama Red".

[poptart]

He couldn't rhyme words, so he ended each line with "o" attached to whatever word ended the line.

LOL


I don't know why, but that is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

No. I don't claim to be "Mr. Knowledge" on rap.

So don't use phrases like "I'm pretty sure" on topics you admittedly know nothing about. Problem solved.

[BSmack]

I finally decided to see why Kanye West is acclaimed a genius. Friday I listened to a song/video. He couldn't rhyme words, so he ended each line with "o" attached to whatever word ended the line.

Wow. He is, indeed, a genius.

First...and last time...I will ever hear his garbage.

Kanye is the Grand Funk Railroad of rap.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Kanye is the Grand Funk Railroad of rap.

Yikes. As the antithesis of a compliment, that was about perfect.

And I agree.

[Derron]

I could've happily died not ever having seen anybody trying to cover Stairway in that manner.

I hate you Jsc, almost as much as I hate seeing the survivors applaud that abortion.

I'll die not so happily now.

Fuck you Wags. That was probably the best cover of a Led cut that I have ever heard. I know it is not exactly the way you need to hear it, so try and not notice the masterful mix going on there. I know, they put strings and horns and more vocals, and other weird shit you do not and cannot understand. It also represents that a component of the original Led Zepplin will still be around.

The fact that Robert and the other guys were nodding time and smiling makes me think they kind of liked what they did.

Speaking of dieing happily, did you ever get off the smokes after your stroke out ?

[War Wagon]

Kanye is the Grand Funk Railroad of rap.

:?

I thought it was Snoop Dogg?

Then again, my knowledge of rap is equivalent to 'holics knowledge of poured in place concrete foundations and the structural integrity thereof.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

They helped define an era.

I wish you would "define" a deep gouge in the pavement when you leap off your office building tomorrow morning.
Seriously. Your life is a rolling tumbleweed of crap. Why go on?

[War Wagon]

Why go on?

"To be or not to be, that is the question."

I prefer Jsc to "be".... stuck in a ditch when the latest polar express leaves his shit hole of a woefully unprepared city paralyzed by perhaps 3" of snow.

Then I want him to crawl out of that ditch and explain how man made "climate change" is responsible.

[Mikey]

Don't y'all be disrespecting GFR damnit. They helped define an era.

So did Boy George.

Your point?

[BSmack]

They helped define an era.

Yes, they were the schlockmiesters of their age. Just like Kanye is now.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

B. Next time I have a rap question, I'll know to consult YOU first, NeGrO-Blue.

If you want to know the largest planet in our solar system or the capital of Egypt, you can consult me too. It's called surface knowledge. I have a hard time believing you've never heard of The Sugarhill Gang.

I don't listen to much rap, but some rappers are very talented and I respect their abilities. Contrary to all the ignorant beliefs in here, their skill sets aren't easily replicated, otherwise any random w.igger off the street who thinks he can "flow" would have a record deal right now.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

That's fine. The goal is to distance myself as far as possible from your classification. Southern, backwoods, ignorant, sweaty, homo-obsessed, goatee-wearing diabetic fat ass isn't the echelon I'm reaching for.

[Jay in Phoenix]

I don't listen to much rap, but some rappers are very talented and I respect their abilities. Contrary to all the ignorant beliefs in here, their skill sets aren't easily replicated, otherwise any random w.igger off the street who thinks he can "flow" would have a record deal right now.

I agree with that assessment Mgo, at least to a point. One of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to rap, and this includes even the most talented artists, is the continuing use of sampling. It seems as though at least 90% of rap has to lean on the work of other musicians and their music. If it just comes down to borrowing a beat or riff, or a few chords, no big deal. But so damn many of the rappers have to use an entire song that belongs to someone else, including lyrics and then just barely accentuate it with their "flow". That comes down to being nothing more than unoriginal, untalented ripoffs.

I respect most of the original rappers, like Sugarhill Gang, Run D.M.C., etc. But the plethora of the newest wave are completely unlistenable.

[Goober McTuber]

I don't listen to much rap, but some rappers are very talented and I respect their abilities.

You just classified yourself in one sentence. Sorry.

I feel the urge to shit in my hands and then draw pictures of flowers and small motorcycles on the walls of my home with said shit.

All righty, then.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I agree with that assessment Mgo, at least to a point. One of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to rap, and this includes even the most talented artists, is the continuing use of sampling. It seems as though at least 90% of rap has to lean on the work of other musicians and their music. If it just comes down to borrowing a beat or riff, or a few chords, no big deal. But so damn many of the rappers have to use an entire song that belongs to someone else, including lyrics and then just barely accentuate it with their "flow". That comes down to being nothing more than unoriginal, untalented ripoffs.

I respect most of the original rappers, like Sugarhill Gang, Run D.M.C., etc. But the plethora of the newest wave are completely unlistenable.

It's no worse than mainstream rock, pop, or country for that matter. Like any genre, talented and original artists can be found on smaller and independent record labels. And the internet provides vast access to this material.

I agree that all the sampling, and even more so, all the auto-tuned bullshit in mainstream hip-hop, is nauseating.

The truly talented rappers should have the ability to strip all that stuff down and freestyle. I'm not a big Eminem fan, but you can go onto You Tube and watch old school freestyle battles he used to get into when he was coming up in the clubs of Detroit. How he can just go on for 10+ minutes, barely taking a breath, and rhyming words with a sense of direction, is pretty impressive. I could come up with a rap with a pen and paper and a couple hours, but I can't do that shit off the top of my head. Even if I could, I sure as shit couldn't execute it without looking like a fool. Nobody in here could either. Hell, Spray can probably barely get through a simple sentence without needing a nap. If you can do that, and do it really well, someone is going to pay you for it.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

And the goal is to obviously indulge yourself in talent-free, cock-thrusting homosexual shit. It's okay. It's what some of you people from the land of Sandusky do, eh? :grin:

What problem do you have with cock-thrusting homosexual shit? All you do is think & talk about it, then tell everyone how gay they are.

[Dinsdale]

I don't listen to much rap, but some rappers are very talented and I respect their abilities. Contrary to all the ignorant beliefs in here, their skill sets aren't easily replicated, otherwise any random w.igger off the street who thinks he can "flow" would have a record deal right now.

I agree with that assessment Mgo, at least to a point. One of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to rap, and this includes even the most talented artists, is the continuing use of sampling. It seems as though at least 90% of rap has to lean on the work of other musicians and their music. If it just comes down to borrowing a beat or riff, or a few chords, no big deal. But so damn many of the rappers have to use an entire song that belongs to someone else, including lyrics and then just barely accentuate it with their "flow". That comes down to being nothing more than unoriginal, untalented ripoffs.

I respect most of the original rappers, like Sugarhill Gang, Run D.M.C., etc. But the plethora of the newest wave are completely unlistenable.

So the signature art form of present-day African Americans involves stealing from white people?

Well "color" me shocked.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

It's a good thing your rock heroes, Led Zeppelin, never took from anyone else. And certainly NEVER from black blues artists.

[Jay in Phoenix]

I agree that all the sampling, and even more so, all the auto-tuned bullshit in mainstream hip-hop, is nauseating.

Bingo. Auto-tuning is arguably one of the worst things to happen to any form of music. Any untalented schmuck can tweak him/herself into a musical robot and that is just an abomination of music. It's like practicing aural alchemy. Auto-tuning has a purpose, but to use it to attempt to turn dog shit into gold is essentially cheating.

The truly talented rappers should have the ability to strip all that stuff down and freestyle. I'm not a big Eminem fan, but you can go onto You Tube and watch old school freestyle battles he used to get into when he was coming up in the clubs of Detroit. How he can just go on for 10+ minutes, barely taking a breath, and rhyming words with a sense of direction, is pretty impressive. I could come up with a rap with a pen and paper and a couple hours, but I can't do that shit off the top of my head.

Good example. I can take Eminem in doses, but I appreciate what he does. To continue a flow of freestyle rap and not only have it rhyme but have it make sense, have it structure itself into an actual story, is pretty damn amazing. I know a couple of guys who are independents, and they can just bust out a rap that is both rythmic and funny, or dramatic. I can't conceive of doing it. Again, not anywhere near my favored form of musical entertainment, but the quality stuff merits attention.

On the flip side, the thug and gangster crap is just that...crap. And it seems that between that and the prepackaged, commercialized, over-produced sampled material is bringing the genre to a screeching halt, artistically speaking.

[Dinsdale]

It's a good thing your rock heroes, Led Zeppelin

Link?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Lots of links. Take your pick:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=led+zeppelin+stolen+songs

Honestly, I thought this was common knowledge, and something even the diehard LZ fans didn't dispute.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I think Dins means LZ aren't his "heroes".

That's B_Schmuck...and the ensuing 4 hours.

[Dinsdale]

Loves me some Zep, but they were straight up thieves.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I think Dins means LZ aren't his "heroes".

You're right. I really should distinguish Dins from all the other people here who have pimped the same 7 bands for 40+ years. Ma bad.

[smackaholic]

It's a good thing your rock heroes, Led Zeppelin

Link?

Sounds like somebody's spreadsheet is even more fuct than mine.

Dins is on record here as a "LZ plagerized everything" whiny little cunt.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Let's put it this way, buddy. It's far easier for a person who can actually play instruments to do rap, than for a rapper to play an instrument. Hope that helps.

There's no way to quantify that statement but I would say...no. You can teach someone how to play chords on a guitar. It's a technical learning process. But rhythm, flow, and the ability to execute freestyle...that's a talent you simply have or don't have, imo.

[smackaholic]

As for their being plagerists, sure they are. So is pretty damn near every musician out there to varying extents.

[BSmack]

Zep robbed more old black folks than Mike Tyson. It took 20 years before they gave Willie Dixon credit for his material alone. And they still haven't given credit to Howlin Wolf or Bukka White. Plus they stole Tarrus from Spirit and called it the opening riff to Stairway. And let's not even talk about dazed and confused. That was a straight up jack move. Listen.



Don't get me wrong, Zep improved this song. But they did steal it. And no credit was ever given.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Let's put it this way, buddy. It's far easier for a person who can actually play instruments to do rap, than for a rapper to play an instrument. Hope that helps.

There's no way to quantify that statement but I would say...no. You can teach someone how to play chords on a guitar. It's a technical learning process. But rhythm, flow, and the ability to execute freestyle...that's a talent you simply have or don't have, imo.

When I go to my local music shop for supplies on a Saturday or whatever, it's usually full of acned, balding, fat-bodies "trying out" the guitars.

They sure can sling the licks...


...but ain't nobody gonna write Hammer Of The Gods II about them, nor will smokin' hot sluts blow roadies to try and sneak into their sad, one-bedroom bachelor apartments, just because they can faithfully re-create Over The Hills And Far Away.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Good example. I can take Eminem in doses, but I appreciate what he does. To continue a flow of freestyle rap and not only have it rhyme but have it make sense, have it structure itself into an actual story, is pretty damn amazing. I know a couple of guys who are independents, and they can just bust out a rap that is both rythmic and funny, or dramatic. I can't conceive of doing it. Again, not anywhere near my favored form of musical entertainment, but the quality stuff merits attention.

Sounds like we're on the same page. You get it, or at least willing to try to get it. But someone like Spray hears a 50 Cent song and makes sweeping generalizations about an entire genre. This black-and-white mentality with everything is something I don't understand, but there's a reason southerners routinely lead the country in low test scores, dysfunctional school systems, and unemployment rates. They're fucking stupid.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Zep robbed more old black folks than Mike Tyson.

That line is older than Mace's grand-dad.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Ah, I see this thread has devolved into Zeppelin Ad Absurdum...


...the point at which all music threads end up with a discussion of Led Zeppelin's plagiarism.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Ah, I see this thread has devolved into Zeppelin Ad Absurdum...

~sigh~

Look, there's nothing inherently wrong with LZ, Floyd, The Stones, The Who. I used to listen to that shit all the time. But some of you act like 40 years later you're still going through some religious experience every time you spin some LZ II. The emotion you have still wrapped up in this stuff is embarrassing. Move the fuck on already. Are you going to get lyrics etched onto your tombstones when you die? I can see it now...

[Jay in Phoenix]

Sounds like we're on the same page. You get it, or at least willing to try to get it. But someone like Spray hears a 50 Cent song and makes sweeping generalizations about an entire genre. This black-and-white mentality with everything is something I don't understand, but there's a reason southerners routinely lead the country in low test scores, dysfunctional school systems, and unemployment rates. They're fucking stupid.

Mgo, we are on the same page here. And I do get it, I'm not just trying. I have plenty of rap in my musical library, though most of it is old school stuff like Dre, Tupac, Run D.M.C., and the like. My music sensibilities go across the board and I'll listen to anything that I think has quality. I also like a number of artists who many perceive as junk, but I could care less. As I've said a few times within this thread, like any other form of art, music is subjective and open to personal taste. One mans treasure in another mans trash. And vice versa. The thing is, I do understand where Papa is coming from as well. I might not agree with him overall, but he has his points.

Fuck it man, like what you want and avoid what you don't. But everything is fair game for criticism. It comes with the territory.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

The emotion you have still wrapped up in this stuff is embarrassing.

It's one thing to let John Paul Jones' walking bass lines sway your balls when you're a Mountain Dew and weed fueled teen...


...it's quite another to have to rationalise lyrics that were cribbed from the Dungeon Master's Guide when you're some over-the-hill, forklift humping, dead-eyed schlub.





...and the next "tapper" I run into while browsing the amp section is going to have his fingers broken. I'm not even joking.

:x

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I mean, there's got to be something else going on to keep that shit interesting four decades later. It's like Jimmy Page stacks a few amps inside their assholes and blasts the solo to 'Achilles Last Stand' just to keep the orgasm going.