Quagmire v16.0

[Moving Sale]

And now we have the Downing St. memo which proves Bush Lied.

Is ANYBODY still backing that fool?

[SunCoastSooner]

And now we have the Downing St. memo which proves Bush Lied.

Lie much, shitstain?

Have you read any of his other posts?

[Bizzarofelice]

I thought you conceeded that the war was proposed with false pretense, mvscal? IIRC, you conceeded that fact but believed the cause of toppling Saddam was a worthy one.

[Cuda]

Maybe that was me, I'm not sure

[ElvisMonster]

Lie much, shitstain?

Have you read any of his other posts?

Zing, burn, or face?

[Moving Sale]

No, we don't.

This from someone who thinks that the fact that some Blacks live in hellholes is proof that they are genetically predisposed to violence.

Your ability to correctly process information is critically flawed.

OYSS

[Bizzarofelice]

I thought you conceeded that the war was proposed with false pretense, mvscal? IIRC, you conceeded that fact but believed the cause of toppling Saddam was a worthy one.

The intelligence was wrong. That doesn't make it a deliberate deception.

complete agreement. I do think it was a big enough issue that heads needed to roll and they needed to roll publicly, but that didn't happen.

[BSmack]

I thought you conceeded that the war was proposed with false pretense, mvscal? IIRC, you conceeded that fact but believed the cause of toppling Saddam was a worthy one.

The intelligence was wrong. That doesn't make it a deliberate deception.

I, along with the rest of the world, remember Colin Powell showing those 8x10s with the really scary descriptions of the nasty shit allegedly going on inside. Either our intelligence people are completely fucking incompetent or we were lied to.

[Moving Sale]

Have you read any of his other posts?

Can I infer from your post that you still back Bush?

[Cuda]

I would infer from his other posts that he still thinks you're a dipshit

[Bizzarofelice]

I wanted the people who watched the twin towers fall and immediately broke out their plan to invade Iraq gone. Wolfowitz should have his liver torn out by eagles every day.

[Bizzarofelice]

The bottom line remains that if Saddam had been rendering the complete and unconditional cooperation that he was obligated to render there would be no ambiguities or uncertainty.

Who was he obligated to? America? Britain? The people that invaded him? Last I knew, it was the UN he agreed with, not the "Coalition."

He deliberately created the false impression that he still retained proscribed weapons so we kicked his ass.

North Korea part of the same doctrine?

[Cuda]

North Korea part of the same doctrine?

They ought to be. Soften up the area with a few tons of food and the invasion would be a snap

[DrDetroit]

Hey, B_Smack...why the false choices?

[See You Next Wednesday]

complete agreement. I do think it was a big enough issue that heads needed to roll and they needed to roll publicly, but that didn't happen.

Well Tenet is gone and our intelligence community has been completely reorganized, so you can't really say nothing has been done.

And Bush gave him a medal.

[See You Next Wednesday]

True, but it is very telling.

[Cuda]

That and a dollar will get him a cup of coffee.

Where's anybody gonna get a cup of coffee for only $1?

[MuchoBulls]

Where's anybody gonna get a cup of coffee for only $1?

Sam's Club?

[See You Next Wednesday]

That and a dollar will get him a cup of coffee.

Where's anybody gonna get a cup of coffee for only $1?

If you throw in the Medal of Freedom with the buck you can get a small Americano at Starbucks.

[Bizzarofelice]

That and a dollar will get him a cup of coffee.

Where's anybody gonna get a cup of coffee for only $1?

If you throw in the Medal of Freedom with the buck you can get a small Americano at Starbucks.

That's how I roll.

[Cuda]

RACK! Flipperfelice

[Dinsdale]

http://www.inmusicwetrust.com/label/mp3 ... Church.mp3

[SunCoastSooner]

Have you read any of his other posts?

Can I infer from your post that you still back Bush?

In comparison to whom?

Would I rather havce Bush or a true conservative? A True Conservative.

Would I rather have Bush than just about any democrat? Definatly.

[SunCoastSooner]

Have you read any of his other posts?

Can I infer from your post that you still back Bush?

I would infer from his other posts that he still thinks you're a dipshit

Thats more accurate.

[Shoalzie]

Quagmire? I thought this was a Family Guy thread...

[Cicero]

And now we have the Downing St. memo which proves Bush Lied.

Is ANYBODY still backing that fool?

Still back him a hundred percent. If your boy Billy Bob had some balls maybe he could ahve prevented all this.

[Moving Sale]

My boy? Pull shit out of thin air much?

Why is your self of steam so low that you still back someone who lied to you?

[Y2K]

ponderous.............

[Bizzarofelice]

Definatly.

No further questions, your honor.

[Dinsdale]

Why is your self of steam so low that you still back someone who lied to you?

It's a cause/æffect thing. There are actually people in this world that were born so short on.....well.....any positive qualities, that "conservatism" is their only solace. "Get yours, before the other guy can." Nevermind that the ability to look beyond this retardation is what separates Man from the animals. Those same people are extreme suckers for the "us against them" mentality. And if they're not doing as much "against them" as their frail ego demands, these same pitiful tards take their "us against them" game to their fellow Americans.

It's sad, really. I blame their parents.

[Bizzarofelice]

Nevermind that the ability to look beyond this retardation is what separates Man from the animals. Those same people are extreme suckers for the "us against them" mentality. And if they're not doing as much "against them" as their frail ego demands, these same pitiful tards take their "us against them" game to their fellow Americans.

Whatever. Xeonphobia is making a comeback. Who do you think of when you think of "hating outsiders to the point of mania" Me, motherfucker. ITS PAT TIME!

[Dinsdale]

Yeah, but see.....God fucking told our President to go kill the evil people. That's not xenophobia, it's God's Will.

I remember the good old days of my youth. Back then, if someone claimed that God told them to kill the "evil people," and then went so far as to implement the plan, we used to lock them up for everyone's protection.

Those were the days, eh? Now, we make them president.

[Dinsdale]

Very simple. I would characterize them as being "a long way from here."

[Mister Bushice]

^^^ RACK That.

Funny how that basic concept seems to get overlooked or ignored.

[Mister Bushice]

And now we have the Downing St. memo which proves Bush Lied.

No, we don't.

Lie much, shitstain?

Then what's this? Check the underlined section.

The secret Downing Street memo
SECRET AND STRICTLY PERSONAL - UK EYES ONLY

DAVID MANNING
From: Matthew Rycroft
Date: 23 July 2002
S 195 /02

cc: Defence Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Attorney-General, Sir Richard Wilson, John Scarlett, Francis Richards, CDS, C, Jonathan Powell, Sally Morgan, Alastair Campbell

IRAQ: PRIME MINISTER'S MEETING, 23 JULY

Copy addressees and you met the Prime Minister on 23 July to discuss Iraq.

This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents.

John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam's regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action. Saddam was worried and expected an attack, probably by air and land, but he was not convinced that it would be immediate or overwhelming. His regime expected their neighbours to line up with the US. Saddam knew that regular army morale was poor. Real support for Saddam among the public was probably narrowly based.

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

CDS said that military planners would brief CENTCOM on 1-2 August, Rumsfeld on 3 August and Bush on 4 August.

The two broad US options were:

(a) Generated Start. A slow build-up of 250,000 US troops, a short (72 hour) air campaign, then a move up to Baghdad from the south. Lead time of 90 days (30 days preparation plus 60 days deployment to Kuwait).

(b) Running Start. Use forces already in theatre (3 x 6,000), continuous air campaign, initiated by an Iraqi casus belli. Total lead time of 60 days with the air campaign beginning even earlier. A hazardous option.

The US saw the UK (and Kuwait) as essential, with basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus critical for either option. Turkey and other Gulf states were also important, but less vital. The three main options for UK involvement were:

(i) Basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus, plus three SF squadrons.

(ii) As above, with maritime and air assets in addition.

(iii) As above, plus a land contribution of up to 40,000, perhaps with a discrete role in Northern Iraq entering from Turkey, tying down two Iraqi divisions.

The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.

The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.

The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.

The Prime Minister said that it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the UN inspectors. Regime change and WMD were linked in the sense that it was the regime that was producing the WMD. There were different strategies for dealing with Libya and Iran. If the political context were right, people would support regime change. The two key issues were whether the military plan worked and whether we had the political strategy to give the military plan the space to work.

On the first, CDS said that we did not know yet if the US battleplan was workable. The military were continuing to ask lots of questions.

For instance, what were the consequences, if Saddam used WMD on day one, or if Baghdad did not collapse and urban warfighting began? You said that Saddam could also use his WMD on Kuwait. Or on Israel, added the Defence Secretary.

The Foreign Secretary thought the US would not go ahead with a military plan unless convinced that it was a winning strategy. On this, US and UK interests converged. But on the political strategy, there could be US/UK differences. Despite US resistance, we should explore discreetly the ultimatum. Saddam would continue to play hard-ball with the UN.

John Scarlett assessed that Saddam would allow the inspectors back in only when he thought the threat of military action was real.

The Defence Secretary said that if the Prime Minister wanted UK military involvement, he would need to decide this early. He cautioned that many in the US did not think it worth going down the ultimatum route. It would be important for the Prime Minister to set out the political context to Bush.

Conclusions:

(a) We should work on the assumption that the UK would take part in any military action. But we needed a fuller picture of US planning before we could take any firm decisions. CDS should tell the US military that we were considering a range of options.

(b) The Prime Minister would revert on the question of whether funds could be spent in preparation for this operation.

(c) CDS would send the Prime Minister full details of the proposed military campaign and possible UK contributions by the end of the week.

(d) The Foreign Secretary would send the Prime Minister the background on the UN inspectors, and discreetly work up the ultimatum to Saddam.

He would also send the Prime Minister advice on the positions of countries in the region especially Turkey, and of the key EU member states.

(e) John Scarlett would send the Prime Minister a full intelligence update.

(f) We must not ignore the legal issues: the Attorney-General would consider legal advice with FCO/MOD legal advisers.

(I have written separately to commission this follow-up work.)

MATTHEW RYCROFT

(Rycroft was a Downing Street foreign policy aide)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... ,00.html[U]

[Y2K]

They should revert back to the King and Queen Monarchy thing. These warlords of Downing St are getting so droll.

[Jimmy Medalions]

self of steam

You truly are a stupid piece of shit.

[Tom In VA]

Very simple. I would characterize them as being "a long way from here."

That's the point.

[Dinsdale]

There ain't no point, troll......in any of your posts.

[Tom In VA]

There ain't no point, troll......in any of your posts.

How 'bout a little something, you know, for the effort, you know.