Deflategate - Confirmed

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

All of the balls were inspected 2+ hours before the game.
They all measured correctly.

But measured at the half, 11 of the 12 Pat balls were significantly low.
The Colt balls all measured normally.

Is this info wrong?

This is what they are trying to find out -- how it happened and who was responsible.

Are you saying a sentence should be issued before the verdict?

[poptart]

Mgo, Mike Pereira pops up on our TV screen every Sunday and tells us within 5 seconds how and why a ruling will be made.

If there is a ridiculously lengthy delay in "getting to the bottom of this," it is because that's what the league wants.

They want to try to maintain their integrity, so they just claim they are "investigating" -- while the SB goes off as planned.

And that why they told Brady (imo) to stand up there and tell his cockamamie tale about not knowing anything -- which nobody in their right mind believes for a second.

[Felix]

Quarterbacks have been scuffing up/breaking in balls most likely since the invention of the forward pass. Why people are suddenly acting like this is some new thing is beyond me, and if this really bothers you that much, you should probably just quit watching sports.

no shit....if you watch MLB, you see pitchers all the time doctoring balls in one form or another....some are so blatant they get caught, but most don't....is it cheating? probably, but Gaylord Perry was a notorious for doctoring balls, but does anybody think he doesn't belong in the hall of fame? Whitey Ford cut the ball with his wedding ring....does that mean he's not a hall of fame pitcher?

for you purists, here's some news I know you'll find astounding.....but the majority of your sports heros were always trying to get an upper hand, whether by fair or foul means.....sorry, didn't mean to ruin your illusions....

[Goober McTuber]

Richard Sherman is right on too. The NFL commissioner and an NFL owner partying together during the season? WTF? That defines conflict of interest. Goodell should be fired. No wonder it will be weeks before he hands down his bullshit findings.

30 years for the NFL to reach WWF standards? WTF was I thinking, we're already there.

Well, yes. Look no further than the Pro Bowl. Gimmicked up goal posts. Two teams coached by an admitted alcoholic vs. a certified drug addict. AFC quarterbacked by the 6th or 7th alternate. Goodell certainly earns his $30 million per.

[poptart]

no shit....if you watch MLB, you see pitchers all the time doctoring balls in one form or another....some are so blatant they get caught, but most don't....is it cheating? probably, but Gaylord Perry was a notorious for doctoring balls, but does anybody think he doesn't belong in the hall of fame? Whitey Ford cut the ball with his wedding ring....does that mean he's not a hall of fame pitcher?

for you purists, here's some news I know you'll find astounding.....but the majority of your sports heros were always trying to get an upper hand, whether by fair or foul means.....sorry, didn't mean to ruin your illusions....

Felix, the league checks the balls 2+ hours before the game... and then leaves them alone in the possession of the team.
The league is obviously INVITING shenanigans.

Checked at the half, 11 of 12 NE balls were significantly under-inflated.
Indy's balls were all normal.

[Felix]

no shit....if you watch MLB, you see pitchers all the time doctoring balls in one form or another....some are so blatant they get caught, but most don't....is it cheating? probably, but Gaylord Perry was a notorious for doctoring balls, but does anybody think he doesn't belong in the hall of fame? Whitey Ford cut the ball with his wedding ring....does that mean he's not a hall of fame pitcher?

for you purists, here's some news I know you'll find astounding.....but the majority of your sports heros were always trying to get an upper hand, whether by fair or foul means.....sorry, didn't mean to ruin your illusions....

Felix, the league checks the balls 2+ hours before the game... and then leaves them alone in the possession of the team.
The league is obviously INVITING shenanigans.

Checked at the half, 11 of 12 NE balls were significantly under-inflated.
Indy's balls were all normal.

and......

[Joe in PB]

....And NE fumbles the ball significantly less than any other team. And turnover margin is a key statistic for having a winning record.

I don't know that the league is obviously inviting shenanigans, since the rest of the league seems to have no problem complying with the rules. Which brings us to the point, NE is a repeat offender of breaking NFL rules for their own benefit. Cheating.

Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong, all were found to be using performance enhancing drugs, cheating, and all were stripped of there accomplishments &/or stigmatized.

Add Bill Belichick to the list imo.

[mvscal]

Richard Sherman is right on too. The NFL commissioner and an NFL owner partying together during the season? WTF? That defines conflict of interest.

My goodness. Aren't you the pearl clutching nancy? Who the fuck do you think Goodell works for? What "interests" are in conflict here? He is ownership's designated representative. The only authority he has is the authority they grant him.

What? Do you think he hasn't had dinner with Jim Irsay, Paul Allen and every other owner in the league? Are you really that fucking stupid? You just bite on everything dangled in front of your face.

[mvscal]

Checked at the half, 11 of 12 NE balls were significantly under-inflated.

Actually, no, they weren't.

But what has the NFL really found? As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... flategate/

Indy's balls were all normal.

That's because they were over-inflated before the game, you fucking dope. Notice Luck doesn't have much to say about this. That's because he's doing the same thing as is every other QB in the league.

[mvscal]

....And NE fumbles the ball significantly less than any other team.

The didn't even lead the league in that category, you shit-filled dumbfuck. Minnesota did. Nor did they lead the league in turnover margin. Green Bay did.

It's a pretty good idea to shut the fuck up when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about...and you clearly don't.

[Joe in PB]

Richard Sherman is right on too. The NFL commissioner and an NFL owner partying together during the season? WTF? That defines conflict of interest.

My goodness. Aren't you the pearl clutching nancy? Who the fuck do you think Goodell works for? What "interests" are in conflict here? He is ownership's designated representative. The only authority he has is the authority they grant him.

What? Do you think he hasn't had dinner with Jim Irsay, Paul Allen and every other owner in the league? Are you really that fucking stupid? You just bite on everything dangled in front of your face.

I don't think the NFL commissioner should be having dinner at NFL owners homes during the season especially during the playoffs. First he's at Kraft's house chumming it up the night before the Indy game. Now he's supposed to make an unbiased ruling on deflategate, which I find hard to believe he can.

Of course that's an easy observation by anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass.

[Joe in PB]

....And NE fumbles the ball significantly less than any other team.

The didn't even lead the league in that category, you shit-filled dumbfuck. Minnesota did. Nor did they lead the league in turnover margin. Green Bay did.

It's a pretty good idea to shut the fuck up when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about...and you clearly don't.

Fuckin' imbecile. Go back & read some of the references I posted. Maybe you'll learn something Mr know it less.

[poptart]

That's because they were over-inflated before the game, you fucking dope. Notice Luck doesn't have much to say about this. That's because he's doing the same thing as is every other QB in the league.

Mandating a uniform ball is common sense, yet the league's procedure (checking the balls 2 hours before the game, and then leaving them alone with the team) allows for manipulation to occur.

I see no positive to the NFL procedure -- and in this particular instance, the Gaytriots were busted.

[mvscal]

....And NE fumbles the ball significantly less than any other team.

The didn't even lead the league in that category, you shit-filled dumbfuck. Minnesota did. Nor did they lead the league in turnover margin. Green Bay did.

It's a pretty good idea to shut the fuck up when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about...and you clearly don't.

Fuckin' imbecile. Go back & read some of the references I posted. Maybe you'll learn something Mr know it less.

Minnesota lead the league with the fewest fumbles at 11. NE was #2 with 13. Green Bay lead the league in turnover differential at +14. NE was tied with Houston for #2 at +12.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... fied=false

So fuck you and your fucked up "references."

[mvscal]

I don't think the NFL commissioner should be having dinner at NFL owners homes during the season especially during the playoffs.

Who gives a fuck what you think? He isn't a coach or a player or an official. What difference does it make?

[mvscal]

Mandating a uniform ball is common sense, yet the league's procedure (checking the balls 2 hours before the game, and then leaving them alone with the team) allows for manipulation to occur.

It's an easy enough fix assuming that what you are attempting to fix is actually broken. When every QB in the league is preparing the ball to his personal preference (and they are) nobody is at a disadvantage. I guess we need to ban gloves as well since they help get a better grip on the ball, too, right?

Oh, why 13 psi? Why not 11 or 15?

[mvscal]

Video Shows Employee Taking 24 Balls Into Bathroom

Fuck New England.

the video shows the employee in the bathroom for approximately 90 seconds.

Yeah, you're an idiot. He is the ball attendant, yes? What was he supposed to do? Leave them unattended.

[poptart]

I read the WSJ article. Pats over last 7 season total not only had fewest fumbles, but were 20% lower than next closest team Baltimore. They also looked at specific players like Welker,, Blount and Amendola who play d on different teams and found a stark difference in their fumbles when they played for NE.

My opinion on this changing the outcome of games has changed

Mvscal will drive by with "You're an idiot" any moment now.

He'll show ya!

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Mgo, Mike Pereira pops up on our TV screen every Sunday and tells us within 5 seconds how and why a ruling will be made.

If there is a ridiculously lengthy delay in "getting to the bottom of this," it is because that's what the league wants.

They want to try to maintain their integrity, so they just claim they are "investigating" -- while the SB goes off as planned.

And that why they told Brady (imo) to stand up there and tell his cockamamie tale about not knowing anything -- which nobody in their right mind believes for a second.

You're advocating disqualification from the Super Bowl, which would be an extremely severe and unprecedented level of punishment, especially for something as petty as deflating some footballs by an amount so small, even the refs didn't notice it after handling the balls for 4 hours. So, yeah, you'd better damn well have some hard proof before dropping a hammer that size. Do I think NE did it? I suspect yes, not that I give a shit anyway. But a ball boy running to the pisser for 90 seconds and some statistics on fumbles, isn't exactly a smoking gun.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

11 out of 12 balls 2 psi below spec isn't a coincidence.

It also isn't proof NE was responsible.

The stats on the fumbles are staggering - really

Not really. Good football teams don't fumble the ball, and Belichick is known to bench guys who put the ball on the carpet, no matter how talented they are. Seriously, if not fumbling was as simple as a little bit less PSI in the ball, then everybody would have figured that out a long time ago and would be practicing the same method. Perhaps they have been.

[poptart]

You're advocating disqualification from the Super Bowl, which would be an extremely severe and unprecedented level of punishment, especially for something as petty as deflating some footballs by an amount so small, even the refs didn't notice it after handling the balls for 4 hours.

Who said the refs didn't notice?

My suspicion is that for a long time, ball inflation level is something officials have not concerned themselves with.


I'm advocating the NFL come clean and admit they have let this go on
As I said on page 2...

What should happen is (1) or (2).

(1) The league should publicly admit that they have let this football doctoring go on for a long time because they never considered it that big of a deal.
Admit that while they had a specific measurement in place for the ball, it was not something they strictly enforced.

(2) Disqualify the Pats from the Super Bowl. Indy v. Seattle instead.

This whole thing looks very bad right now, and is even more damning in light of the fumble numbers we are seeing.

[Joe in PB]

11 out of 12 balls 2 psi below spec isn't a coincidence. I suspect now they've been doing it since 2007

The stats on the fumbles are staggering - really

That's a huge margin that I'm sure would have affected the outcome of at least a couple close games

Exactly.

He isn't a coach or a player or an official. What difference does it make?

First the NFL commissioner is schmoozing it up with an owner. Then 2 days later starts an investigation of that owners franchise due to an accusation of cheating. He's the main decision maker in its outcome, whether that's a fine, suspension, or nothing, & ordering the destruction of evidence of said investigation.

A good analogy is a judge who likes to hang out at the local whore house, then resides in a prostitution case of said whore house.

[Joe in PB]

11 out of 12 balls 2 psi below spec isn't a coincidence.

It also isn't proof NE was responsible.

The stats on the fumbles are staggering - really

Not really......

.........during the past five years the Patriots have fumbled at a nearly impossibly low rate, according to football data analyst Warren Sharp. Since 2010, their average plays per fumble lost is 187, compared to the league average of 105. And no one else comes even close. On one hand, a fumble rate that low speaks to the team’s impeccable preparation. On the other, it adds fuel to the accusations of cheating.

This isn’t random chance. As Sharp points out, we would expect this instance to occur once in 16,233.77 chances if fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, “which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win.” Nearly statistically impossible.....

Back to your regularly scheduled Patriots apologists circle jerk......

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Who said the refs didn't notice?

My suspicion is that for a long time, ball inflation level is something officials have not concerned themselves with.

So if the refs didn't deem it any more egregious than your garden variety holding call, then why the fuck should anyone else? I mean, they think so little of this "rule" they won't even acknowledge it? And you want NE disqualified on the basis of an ALLEGED violation of this rule?

Yeah, you seem like a very reasonable human being.

Face it, nobody had concerned themselves with it. Not the refs, not the league, not coaches, players, fans, or anyone else. Up until about a week ago because a team got ass blasted into the turf, now suddenly everybody is manufacturing all kinds of outrage. It's ridiculous.

[Joe in PB]

This thread reminds me of serving on a jury. There's always 1 person who can't or won't believe 1 + 1 = 2. They need to see the whole equation including the answer, or 1 + 1 = 0.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Come on now.......

Laugh all you want, but levying fines and punishment based on supposition and not proof is a bad precedent to set. And if NE was in fact responsible, I'm sure the league wants to know specifically who was involved hence the investigation.

Why do you hate due process?

[poptart]

Who said the refs didn't notice?

My suspicion is that for a long time, ball inflation level is something officials have not concerned themselves with.

So if the refs didn't deem it any more egregious than your garden variety holding call, then why the fuck should anyone else? I mean, they think so little of this "rule" they won't even acknowledge it? And you want NE disqualified on the basis of an ALLEGED violation of this rule?

Yeah, you seem like a very reasonable human being.

Face it, nobody had concerned themselves with it. Not the refs, not the league, not coaches, players, fans, or anyone else. Up until about a week ago because a team got ass blasted into the turf, now suddenly everybody is manufacturing all kinds of outrage. It's ridiculous.

You bring up some good questions.

"Why don't the officials do something about inappropriate ball inflation?"

Possible answers:
1. They are incompetent boobs
2. They are instructed not to care about ball inflation level.

I suspect it's #2.

If it's #2, then we can ask, "Why don't they care about ball inflation level?"

I can give you my speculation, and I already have earlier in the thread.

The league wants pts on the board.
They want comfortable and happy QBs.
So this is a *wink* *wink* rule.

Hell, they give the balls to the team for 2 hours before the game... after checking inflation level. :doh:
If that doesn't tell you something, nothing will.


Face it, the league does not CARE about true integrity.
They want POINTS ON THE BOARD -- and satisfied sheeple.

So they've let the doctoring go on.


First, I would never trust the NFL to investigate itself.
It's like the IRS investigating itself.
They're going to tell you bullshit.

In a perfect world, an outside entity would investigate the matter, interview all parties, and we'd get true answers about the whole thing.


The NFL is a laff.

[War Wagon]

Face it, the league does not CARE about true integrity.

Then why would they have a rule about proper inflation in the first place? I didn't know about the rule, did you?

[poptart]

Face it, the league does not CARE about true integrity.

Then why would they have a rule about proper inflation in the first place? I didn't know about the rule, did you?

Wagon, stop and think...

There has to be a rule about ball standard on the books -- otherwise teams would bring out... God knows what to play the games with.

There has to be an appearance that a solid standard is in effect.


I never knew the rule.
I just assumed they had a system of effective ball management in place.

My bad -- and I should know better than to give the NFL the benefit of the doubt on anything.

[mvscal]

11 out of 12 balls 2 psi below spec isn't a coincidence.

They weren't. Only one ball was 2 psi under.

I suspect now they've been doing it since 2007

And yet they have only led the league in fewest fumbles only once during that time frame. The only thing staggering is the stupidity of this non-issue.

[Joe in PB]

NE has had the fewest fumbles per attempts since 2007. Big difference.

[mvscal]

Nope. It shows they're consistent. They're consistent because they work at it and don't tolerate players who can't hang on to the ball.

Every QB in the league is either underinflating, overinflating (like the Colts last week), scuffing the ball or wearing gloves to get a better grip.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Every QB in the league is either underinflating, overinflating (like the Colts last week), scuffing the ball or wearing gloves to get a better grip.

"BUT...BUT...BUT...WE'RE ALL SO OUTRAGED OVER A RULE WE DIDN'T KNOW EXISTED 1 WEEK AGO! BAN THEM! BAN THEM ALL!!"

[mvscal]

Every QB in the league is either underinflating, overinflating (like the Colts last week), scuffing the ball or wearing gloves to get a better grip.

"BUT...BUT...BUT...WE'RE ALL SO OUTRAGED OVER A RULE WE DIDN'T KNOW EXISTED 1 WEEK AGO! BAN THEM! BAN THEM ALL!!"

Yes, and nevermind that the fine for tampering with a football is $25,000.

[Joe in PB]

What has been shown is since the ball rule change, the Patriots have significantly less fumbles per attempts than the rest of the league. Before the rule change they were right in line with the rest of the league in the number of fumbles per attempts.

[Moving Sale]

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sp ... _2006.html

[Diego in Seattle]

Now the NFL is looking into fining Marshawn Lynch for wearing an "unauthorized hat" during Media Day.

So if a certain team deflates their footballs in direct violation of the NFL rules in an effort to gain an illegal advantage, it's ok if the commish & the owner are buds.

But if another team's player wears an "unauthorized hat" (which has no effect on the integrity of the game) and the NFL drops the hammer.

It's starting to look like the Seahawks will not only have to beat the Deflatriots to win the Super Bowl, but have to beat the zebras as well (again).

[War Wagon]

It's starting to look like the Seahawks will not only have to beat the Deflatriots to win the Super Bowl, but have to beat the zebras as well (again).

Looks more like you're starting to get excuses lined up, just in case.

Preparation is the Boy Scouts' motto, after all.

[Diego in Seattle]

It's starting to look like the Seahawks will not only have to beat the Deflatriots to win the Super Bowl, but have to beat the zebras as well (again).

Looks more like you're starting to get excuses lined up, just in case.

Preparation is the Boy Scouts' motto, after all.

Yup, preparing for a rigged game.

[Moving Sale]