The Rod of God -- (!) Pages 33 and 34 (!)

[poptart]

creation as it actually exists

Creation is as God told us it is.
That's what I think.

The earth is stationary
There is a firmament
Within the firmament are the sun, moon and stars
There is water above the firmament
The sun and moon move around the earth.
The earth is not a round ball - as multiple Scriptures lend to the view that it is flat

Most of these things are stated matter-of-factly in the very first Chapter of Genesis, Jsc.
lol

If you think I've got it wrong, then SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURES which tell us otherwise.


People (and believers) have surrendered to NASA and "science."

Sorry, this cat is -----> NOT IN.

[Atomic Punk]

Since potart has mastered "metaphors," now let's introduce him to something called "similes."

http://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day- ... sand-years

BTW, pops, that answers your silly notion that God created the Earth in 6 literal days.

[poptart]

Hmmm...where to start. Let's begin with the picture. There are at least 3 options, as I see it: 1) It's not a photo at all, but a drawing or some sort of artist's rendering; 2) it's a doctored photo; 3) it's an actual undoctored photo. While it makes no difference for the sake of this discussion, which of these (or perhaps another option) do you believe is the case? We could assume it's a doctored photo, since NASA is simply in business to make fools of the sheeple, lead them to believe that God isn't real, then laugh at them for believing such hooey. We could also assume they're making up the distance of 13.1 billion light years based on...nothing. Someone just picked that number for its outlandishness. Why, in your opinion, might they have done that?

But let's just consider the possibility that it's a real photo, and that the distance cited is based on credible science. You obviously find this not to be the case, but why? Because 13.1 billion light years is too much a distance for you to fathom? Because the firmament isn't that large? You've stated you don't know how how big it is, but you know how big it isn't? Because there is simply no fucking way we mere humans could see something that far away and estimate with any degree of accuracy its distance?

Long story short, Smackie, I just don't find it believable that NASA has a telescope which can see a distance of 13.1 billion light years away.
lol
The pic is complete BS, imo.
If you believe it, it's up to you.

By your own admission, God can do ANYTHING. Isn't it possible, then, that He created a universe so immense that, in relative terms, 13.1 billion light years is actually very close to us? The universe could be a trillion trillion light years wide, or wider, which would make 13 billion light years seem like it's just around the corner. Could God have done that? I believe you have no choice but to say that He could. Who's to say He didn't? You? Because there's nothing in the Bible to corroborate it? It's one thing to say you believe everything you read in the Bible. It's quite another to believe that if it isn't in the Bible, it didn't or couldn't have happened. Where do you stand on this?

What I'd like to know is, what Scriptures would you be citing which would lead us to think this kind of fantasy scenario is accurate?

In this thread, http://theoneboard.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46377 I SHOWED SCRIPTURE which tell us about the nature of our world reality.
I didn't just pull up my own ideas.

Genesis 1:6-8
Genesis 1:14-18
Job 37:18
Psalms 104:5
1 Samuel 2:8
Job 38:4-6
Psalms 93:1
1 Chronicles 16:30
Isaiah 40:22
Daniel 4:10-11
Matthew 4:8
Revelation 1:7
And many many others...

I didn't make this up.
This is what GOD TOLD US IN HIS WORD.

In sharp contrast, I'm not aware of any Scripture which would lead us to believe that the universe scenario you described is our reality.

Let's say that you do believe there could be galaxies billions of light years away. (Do you?)

Why would a Christian believe such a thing?

The very notion is debunked right out of the gate in Genesis 1.

Does your disbelief in what NASA is saying about the circled dot in the photo stem from a belief that if there are cosmic bodies that far away, we simply couldn't see them using available technology, and/or we couldn't with any degree of certainty or accuracy estimate their distances? Why might you believe that? Humans are God's special project (He created us in his image, after all), and endowed us with the unique capacity to reason (you DO believe that, right?). He also gave us the ability to do math, be scientific and technological, and all sorts of other neat stuff, like build telescopes and rocket ships and whatsuch. Again, by your own admission, God can do ANYTHING. So why couldn't He have given us the ability to see an object as big as a galaxy (they're quite large, you know) from a distance of 13 billion light years, and estimate somewhat closely its distance from us? If 13 billion is such a large number as to be laughable, what distances fall within the realm of your believability? One light year? A hundred? A thousand miles? How far away do you think it could be, and on what do you base your estimate?

How would any of this possibly be reconciled with God creating a firmament over the earth -- within which is the sun, moon and stars -- with water above that firmament?

Short answer is -----> it can't be.

If some Christians want to believe the things you've posted, so be it.

I don't.
I simply don't see it AT ALL, ANYWHERE in the Bible.

[poptart]

How does this model explain the seasons and changes in sunlight duration?

I've seen other explanations, but you can find an answer here -----> http://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions

[poptart]

Gosh, what could possibly explain lunar eclipses?

I've replied to this question before.
No surprise you didn't read it.
lol


To date, I have not found an answer that I feel real good about.
Still exploring.

[Atomic Punk]

He's also avoiding what I posted above his long silly rant when I responded to his "God created the Earth in 6 days" statement.

[poptart]

So pops, your "proof" in this response to AP is an uncredited blog that includes a link that shows Hitler as being a believer in flat Earth theory? Really? This is one of your cornerstones of conviction?

Nice company you keep Herr 'tart.

When did I ever say... proof?

You make SO much bullshit up that it's truly mind boggling.


I've said now repeatedly, and even in fact within my quote that you posted LOL, that I don't know that many things.
I have many more questions than answers.

Get a grip, dude.


I don't control what is on all websites.
lol
I don't necessarily endorse all things said on a site that I may link to.
That site happens to have a lot of good info.
Take it for what it's worth to you.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Genesis 1 is certainly not a metaphor.
Unless they have some preconceived belief about the nature of the world around them, there is NO WAY a person reads that chapter and take it as anything other than a straightforward account of God's creation week.

Never said Genisis was metaphoric, but the work is flawed. Written by men, many men, perhaps inspired by some higher authority, but we will never know, as it all comes down tom faith, not proof. Acknowledge this and we can talk rationally.

You believe you came from a squirrel -- so you pick up Genesis 1 and twist it around so that it fits this idea that has been planted in your head by others.

"Science" is your god.
So be it.

Squirrel? What the fuck does that even mean? If you want to take a shot at evolution, which is not what we are discussing here, at least get it right. Cells to fish to apes, remember? That aside, my God is God, not science. I respect science as the majority of theologians do. Then aspect about science that you so blindly choose to ignore, is that it is a process of trial and testing, often taking decades, even centuries to finalize. It requires observation as well as speculation, repetition and analysis. Faith is all about belief in something you can never see, touch, smell, taste or hear.

It's ephemeral and invisible, a phantom of the imagination. It is also quite powerful and can be beautiful, but that does nothing to show it as real. Faith is what you make it.

Just ask an ISIS nut job. They make their faith very real, or you get killed doubting.

You can stupidly LOL like the braying jackass that you are, I am being quite forthright about speaking with pastors about your opinions. There would be no point in not doing so. You can call me a liar till your blue in the mouth, but it doesn't make it true. Aside from some pointless smack, i have been sincere with you, can you claim the same?

If anyone wants to come in there and show me where I am Scripturally off base, they are free to do so.
None of the other believers have done so.

I'm very glad to talk about these things.

It isn't the Scripture that is off base, it is your interpretation that is misguided. Without proof, it can be said you have some things right, but so much more wrong. Your opinion, as you have stated, remember? Opinions are subjective and open to critique. Show us your PHD in in theology and maybe, just maybe, there is room for your opinions to mean something. For now, as you cloister yourself in flat Earth conspiracy sights, you are no different than LTS and his whackadoodle trolling.

Seriously poptart, give it a much needed rest and save this stuff for other boards.

[poptart]

He's also avoiding...

rotf...

Dude, I come on here and spend two hours doing nothing but RESPONDING to a flood of questions and protests.


I've cited Scripture (many, and there are many more) which tells us...

- There is a firmament
- The sun, moon and stars are within this firmament
- The earth never moves
- The earth does not move around the sun, but the sun and moon move
- The earth is not round, but seems to be flat

You protest, even though I have shown you SO much clear Scripture for these things.
So let's begin...

There is no firmament: Cite the Scripture for this

Sun, moon and stars are not within the firmament: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth moves: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth moves around the sun: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth is round: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth is billions of years old: Cite Scripture for this

Man came from animals: Cite the Scripture for this


Do your thing.

Show me.

[poptart]

Since potart has mastered "metaphors," now let's introduce him to something called "similes."

http://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day- ... sand-years

BTW, pops, that answers your silly notion that God created the Earth in 6 literal days.

You really must be joking here.

God gave us a straightforward account of His creation week in the first book of Genesis - written in around 1,400 BC.
Then we go almost 1,500 years ahead to Peter producing his Writing.

For 1,500 years, man was informed by God that creation occurred over the course of six days.

Only until man comes upon one pretty obscure verse tucked away in 2 Peter is he finally able to realize that God didn't really mean what he said IN THE VERY FIRST CHAPTER OF GENESIS.

You ignore Genesis Chapter 1 and build a whole doctrine of creation around this one verse in 2 Peter??


Yes, I am laffing.

[poptart]

Do you have anyone that you truly trust?

Will you talk with them about all of this?

lol

What are you babbling about, old man?

[Jay in Phoenix]

When did I ever say... proof?

You make SO much bullshit up that it's truly mind boggling.


I've said now repeatedly, and even in fact within my quote that you posted LOL, that I don't know that many things.
I have many more questions than answers.

Get a grip, dude.

I haven't made up a damn thing, these are your resources, your links which you have asked us to read. You have said you don't know everything, which is the most honest statement you have uttered. I used the word proof, that was wrong so I back off on that. See, no bullshit, no lie. I'll admit an error when I make one.

That however, does not change your stance nor your reliance on your silly graphics and conspiracy sights. You haven't even owned up to the hypocrisy of using made up pictures while blasting NASA for doing the exact same thing. Again, own up to this and you can retain at least a half a thimble full of fragile credibility.

I don't control what is on all websites.
lol
I don't necessarily endorse all things said on a site that I may link to.
That site happens to have a lot of good info.

Take it for what it's worth to you.

Cherry picking now? A true bastion of a flawed and false belief system. No pops, you don't control these sights, you just lean on them for the crap you spew. That sight is a blog, an uncredited opinion and nothing more. As information, it is no more substantial than a rumor as told by a teller of fairy tales.

I'll take it for what it is...drivel.

[Atomic Punk]

Since potart has mastered "metaphors," now let's introduce him to something called "similes."

http://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day- ... sand-years

BTW, pops, that answers your silly notion that God created the Earth in 6 literal days.

You really must be joking here.

God gave us a straightforward account of His creation week in the first book of Genesis - written in around 1,400 BC.
Then we go almost 1,500 years ahead to Peter producing his Writing.

For 1,500 years, man was informed by God that creation occurred over the course of six days.

Only until man comes upon one pretty obscure verse tucked away in 2 Peter is he finally able to realize that God didn't really mean what he said IN THE VERY FIRST CHAPTER OF GENESIS.

You ignore Genesis Chapter 1 and build a whole doctrine of creation around this one verse in 2 Peter??


Yes, I am laffing.

Well, did you see the references in that link to the Old Testament Scriptures explaining what time is to God, and what it is to Man?

Pops, you are intellectually dishonest.

[Jay in Phoenix]

You still haven't addressed the moon shadow question. What exactly is it that is casting that crescent shaped shadow that transitions into a circle that passes over the moon each month which returns to crescent form before passing on and once again leaving the moon in full view and not draped in shadow. If the Earth was at the center of a system whereby the sun and moon rotated around IT, what is causing this shadow? Since there is nothing between the Sun and moon except the Earth, what is the light source showing the moon? What explains this monthly occurrence?

As per your own graphic, this would be impossible. Care to rationalize and explain this?

[poptart]

Squirrel? What the fuck does that even mean? If you want to take a shot at evolution, which is not what we are discussing here, at least get it right. Cells to fish to apes, remember?

There is nothing between cells and fish?

Nothing between fish and apes?

I am being quite forthright about speaking with pastors about your opinions.

Okay, good.
I want you to.

It isn't the Scripture that is off base, it is your interpretation that is misguided

Okay, then you have the same challenge I gave AP.

I've cited Scripture (many, and there are many more) which tells us...

- There is a firmament
- The sun, moon and stars are within this firmament
- The earth never moves
- The earth does not move around the sun, but the sun and moon move
- The earth is not round, but seems to be flat

You protest, even though I have shown you SO much clear Scripture for these things.
So let's begin...

There is no firmament: Cite the Scripture for this

Sun, moon and stars are not within the firmament: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth moves: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth moves around the sun: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth is round: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth is billions of years old: Cite Scripture for this

Man came from animals: Cite the Scripture for this


Do your thing.

Show me.

You haven't even owned up to the hypocrisy of using made up pictures while blasting NASA for doing the exact same thing

You're high, right?

I posted a simple graphic so people can see a hypothesis of sun and moon mvmt on a flat earth.
Of course it is just a simple pic.
You equate that to NASA's thousands of bogus pics (if they are)?


You're seem to be nearly apoplectic, Jay.
Jus' sayin'.

You really DO love your round earth, don't you?

[poptart]

Do you have anyone that you truly trust?

Will you talk with them about all of this?

lol

What are you babbling about, old man?

Finally, a response.

But not much of one. Surely you understand what I was saying.

Is there someone who you trust? A person who you respect, whose opinion that you value and have confidence in? Perhaps a preacher at your church, or someone who attends your church.

Assuming that such a person exists in your life, will you talk with them about these issues?

How do you know that I haven't?
lol


Watch the video and maybe you'll learn something -- or a LOT of things.
That's why I posted it.

[poptart]

Since potart has mastered "metaphors," now let's introduce him to something called "similes."

http://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day- ... sand-years

BTW, pops, that answers your silly notion that God created the Earth in 6 literal days.

You really must be joking here.

God gave us a straightforward account of His creation week in the first book of Genesis - written in around 1,400 BC.
Then we go almost 1,500 years ahead to Peter producing his Writing.

For 1,500 years, man was informed by God that creation occurred over the course of six days.

Only until man comes upon one pretty obscure verse tucked away in 2 Peter is he finally able to realize that God didn't really mean what he said IN THE VERY FIRST CHAPTER OF GENESIS.

You ignore Genesis Chapter 1 and build a whole doctrine of creation around this one verse in 2 Peter??


Yes, I am laffing.

Well, did you see the references in that link to the Old Testament Scriptures explaining what time is to God, and what it is to Man?

Pops, you are intellectually dishonest.

Psalms 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.


Psalms 63:6
When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.


Psalms 119:148
Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: O LORD, quicken me according to thy judgment.


Exodus 20:8-11
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.



These are the verses that reveal to us that the six days of creation in Genesis were really each a thousand years long?

:?


Or many thousands?
Or billions?
Or trillions?
Who knows...
lol




Sorry, this is complete madness.

AP, you're trying WAY TOO HARD to twist the clear, straightforward account of Genesis 1 so that it fits a preconceived notion within your own mind.

[poptart]

How would any of this possibly be reconciled with God creating a firmament over the earth -- within which is the sun, moon and stars -- with water above that firmament?

What do you think Stars are?

I'm not sure.

I think this...

Genesis 1:14-17
[14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[17] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

[poptart]

You still haven't addressed the moon shadow question. What exactly is it that is casting that crescent shaped shadow that transitions into a circle that passes over the moon each month which returns to crescent form before passing on and once again leaving the moon in full view and not draped in shadow. If the Earth was at the center of a system whereby the sun and moon rotated around IT, what is causing this shadow? Since there is nothing between the Sun and moon except the Earth, what is the light source showing the moon? What explains this monthly occurrence?

As per your own graphic, this would be impossible. Care to rationalize and explain this?

Too many questions, Jay.

What you should do is use Google.

Type your question, along with flat earth, and see what you find.


In the meantime, I do think you should spend about a week going back and reading things I've already posted in multiple threads.

:)




:wink:



Have a happy Sunday!

[Atomic Punk]

These are the verses that reveal to us that the six days of creation in Genesis were really each a thousand years long?

:?


Or many thousands?
Or billions?
Or trillions?
Who knows...
lol




Sorry, this is complete madness.

AP, you're trying WAY TOO HARD to twist the clear, straightforward account of Genesis 1 so that it fits a preconceived notion within your own mind.

No pops, what I've shown you is the word "simile." You've already clearly failed at the word "metaphor."

That linked I've shown you cuts down the time I would have to write a long reply to state the same thing the article does that you didn't really read for comprehension.

So no, assuming you have no clue what a "simile" is... it's used as a term Man can related to. The writer could have wrote 1000, 1,000,000, 1,000,000,000, etc. to prove the point that TIME in God's infinite time frame isn't the same time frame a "finite" Man can relate to.

[poptart]

AP,

I've cited Scripture (many, and there are many more) which tells us...

- There is a firmament
- The sun, moon and stars are within this firmament
- The earth never moves
- The earth does not move around the sun, but the sun and moon move
- The earth is not round, but seems to be flat
- God created everything in six days

You protest, even though I have shown you SO much clear Scripture for these things.
So let's begin...

There is no firmament: Cite the Scripture for this

Sun, moon and stars are not within the firmament: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth moves: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth moves around the sun: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth is round: Cite the Scripture for this

Earth is billions of years old: Cite Scripture for this

Man came from animals: Cite the Scripture for this

[poptart]

Genesis 1:1-8
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Metaphor: We know the earth is billions of years old. Time is infinite to God (2 Peter 3:8). These first two days happened over a few million or billion years. Or some amount of time.



Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Metaphor: Everyone knows a virgin can not give birth. Jesus was born just like any other person. Of man's seed.




Matthew 28:7-9
And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Metaphor: Jesus didn't really rise from the dead. Nobody can rise from the dead. We know this. Jesus was just a good man and teacher.

[Atomic Punk]

God doesn't talk about everything in the Scriptures. Why doesn't He? If Man is created in His image, then it would make sense that He doesn't need to write Automotive, Astronomy, Aviation, Plumbing books, etc. to prove that those helpful concepts exist. It is assumed Man is intelligent enough in His created image to figure out things as needed such as those I've mentioned.

I don't believe in macro-evolution either. We didn't evolve from fish, corn nuts, tree shrews, apes, toasters or hub caps. For example, if we've descended from apes, wouldn't existing apes evolve to be us? Why are there still apes? The only counter argument to that would be of your lack of mental capacity to critically think.

[Mikey]

- The earth never moves
- The earth does not move around the sun, but the sun and moon move

Define "move."

[poptart]

I'm out

You never even started.
lol

Just belching and sputtering.

Bye.


I give AP credit for at least attempting to back up his view.

Define "move."

Psalms 104:5
Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

1 Samuel 2:8, Job 38:4-6, Psalms 93:1, 1 Chronicles 16:30, and others.

The earth DOES NOT ROTATE, and it DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND THE SUN.

[poptart]

unless pops thinks the moon isn't illuminated by the sun

I've stated at least a couple of times that I believe the moon produces it's own light.
And in fact, the Bible calls it a light.
A lesser light.
Says nothing about it merely reflecting light.

Genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night


I also posted this short video -- which people should not scroll, but I'm sure nearly all did.







Does anyone have a take on what the wave is?

[Moving Sale]

Science guys,
Puptent is correct that small bodies of water have flat surfaces. He is also batshit crazy if he thinks the oceans are flat. My question is, how are both of those things true? What is the math? I know the force is gravity, but when does it take hold of a body of water and "bend" that water? Is Tahoe bent? Is Lake Michigan bent? And how does it work on relatively low elevation drop rivers like the Might Mississippi which drops 686 feet over 1224 miles from Minneapolis to New Orleans. Which is a one inch drop every 785feet. My patio needs one inch drop every 8 ft or so to properly drain.

[poptart]

I have in turn, given you multiple, non-insult related chances to defend your position with reason and logic that are not directly quoted by scripture, which is and never will be fact or visual or physical proof. Instead, you continue to drop Gay bomb after Gay bomb, which is not only ridiculous and intolerant, not to mention 100% stupid, but entirely non- Christian. I've shown your words to a few pastors and like minded Christians, and to a one, they all wonder what is wrong with you and why you seem so obsessed with hatred and bigotry.

I came in to the thread and offered a number of lengthy posts to establish where I was coming from.
So then look at YOUR first response to me.
It contains this...

Poptart if you aren't trolling you are one seriously confused idiot.

You on the other hand spend your sad little life with your nose brown stained from keeping it buried in a fairy tale and a non-existent saviors ass.

You are a pathetic little old man, deluded or stupid, either way, a fool.

And you wonder why someone, Christian or not, would not feel like responding pleasantly to you?

Stop sobbing.

YOU barged in and began insulting -- IMMEDIATELY.

Not me.


So good, show this whole thread to your pastor.

Outstanding.

He can see what a very fine individual you are.

[Diego in Seattle]

[poptart]

Science guys,
Puptent is correct that small bodies of water have flat surfaces. He is also batshit crazy if he thinks the oceans are flat. My question is, how are both of those things true? What is the math? I know the force is gravity, but when does it take hold of a body of water and "bend" that water? Is Tahoe bent? Is Lake Michigan bent? And how does it work on relatively low elevation drop rivers like the Might Mississippi which drops 686 feet over 1224 miles from Minneapolis to New Orleans. Which is a one inch drop every 785feet. My patio needs one inch drop every 8 ft or so to properly drain.

If you want answers, I strongly recommend you take an hour and a half and watch this...

[Atomic Punk]

Science guys,
Puptent is correct that small bodies of water have flat surfaces. He is also batshit crazy if he thinks the oceans are flat. My question is, how are both of those things true?

You need to better qualify that as the visual perception of "flat" is relative to the small distances you observe from a low vantage point to that of the circumference of a larger planet.

[poptart]

show us any one line from the Bible that directly, not metaphorically, mentions a flat Earth.

Why would you make such a silly and arrogant demand?

2 Timothy 3:16
ALL Scritpure is given by inspiration of God.

I've cited multiple Scriptures -- which are GIVEN BY GOD -- which require a flat earth.


The Prophet John (God Himself speaking through him), wrote this...

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he (Jesus Christ) cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

This will be a real event.

The imagery here can only be seen as making sense if the earth is flat.
It's not a point of debate.

You would have us believe that the earth is round, yet God gave us multiple passages of Scripture imagery which require that the earth He created is flat.


Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;


God can not lie, yet you and AP have God lying to us throughout the Bible.
lol


People don't correct Scripture, Scripture corrects people.

Genesis 3:5 (serpent speaking)
ye shall be as gods

[poptart]

NASA has produced this pic.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/features/c ... _info.html



The say they've photographed this galaxy which is... 13.1 billion light years away.

13.1 billion light years.
And they've got it on film.

People shut their brain off and actually believe this shit for some reason.

bwaaaa...


They are laffing, laffing, laffing at you m0rons.


13.1 billion LIGHT YEARS away.

Oh sure...

Hubble is amazing!

It can dial in and photograph something 13.1 billion LIGHT YEARS away.

Hooray!


So why don't they shut poptart and other assorted wing nuts up?
And maybe Buzz Aldrin (Jay's fliend) won't have to punch anyone else.

Spin that thing around and zoom it in on the moon.
Zoom in to the Apollo landing sites.




Oh no, can't do that.

http://hubblesite.org/reference_desk/fa ... pten&id=77

-- Can Hubble see the Apollo landing sites on the Moon?

No, Hubble cannot take photos of the Apollo landing sites.

An object on the Moon 4 meters (4.37 yards) across, viewed from HST, would be about 0.002 arcsec in size. The highest resolution instrument currently on HST is the Advanced Camera for Surveys at 0.03 arcsec. So anything we left on the Moon cannot be resolved in any HST image. It would just appear as a dot. --


lol

Of course it won't work.

[poptart]

I had noted in my thread at .net that the globe is supposedly tilted at a 23.4 degree angle.



This leaves 66.6 on the other side.


Isn't that neat?!?

[mvscal]

Galaxies are just a little bit bigger than 4 meters and they emit fucktons of radiation across the entire electromagnetic spectrum.

[Smackie Chan]

I just don't find it believable that NASA has a telescope which can see a distance of 13.1 billion light years away.

That's been established. What hasn't been is why you don't believe it. Because you don't trust the messenger (NASA)? Because HST can't clearly show the moon landing site? Because 13.1 billion light years is too far away? Again, how far do you think is reasonable for it to be able to see, and why?

The pic is complete BS, imo.

Is it not a photo at all, or is it a doctored photo?

By your own admission, God can do ANYTHING. Isn't it possible, then, that He created a universe so immense that, in relative terms, 13.1 billion light years is actually very close to us? The universe could be a trillion trillion light years wide, or wider, which would make 13 billion light years seem like it's just around the corner. Could God have done that? I believe you have no choice but to say that He could. Who's to say He didn't? You? Because there's nothing in the Bible to corroborate it? It's one thing to say you believe everything you read in the Bible. It's quite another to believe that if it isn't in the Bible, it didn't or couldn't have happened. Where do you stand on this?

What I'd like to know is, what Scriptures would you be citing which would lead us to think this kind of fantasy scenario is accurate?

I'm not citing scripture because I've cited nothing as fact or fantasy. I've simply offered possibilities based on your words. You claim God to be omnipotent, which means He could do anything. You have limited what He could do or could have done to only what is written in the Bible, meaning if it ain't in there, it didn't happen. That is severely limiting your definition of omnipotent. Are you saying God has done nothing since the books of the Bible were published, and/or that what is in the Bible is comprehensive, meaning it addresses everything God might have done up to that point? After He rested on the 7th day, did he ever spring back into action, or is He still resting? My position is that if there is an omnipotent God, there is nothing limiting His potential - that He is a greater God than the one in which you appear to believe.

Let's address the stars within the firmament. You've stated the Bible doesn't discuss the firmament's size, yet you seem to have some idea of how large it is, or more precisely, how large it isn't. What are stars and how far away are they? Could they be light years away? A rough guess on the furthest one's distance will do, and since the Bible doesn't address it, you won't be able to cite any scripture as backup. I'm just asking for your estimate and its basis. Don't dodge my question this time.

I'm not aware of any Scripture which would lead us to believe that the universe scenario you described is our reality.

So the only reference books and evidence you'll believe are the Bible and anything that agrees with it. Got it.

Let's say that you do believe there could be galaxies billions of light years away. (Do you?)

Why would a Christian believe such a thing?

The very notion is debunked right out of the gate in Genesis 1.

I just reread Genesis 1. I see nothing in it that in any way would debunk what I've stated as being possible. State specifically where in Genesis 1 the possibility of the universe's size being limited to something less than a light year is found, and why you would interpret it that way.

Does your disbelief in what NASA is saying about the circled dot in the photo stem from a belief that if there are cosmic bodies that far away, we simply couldn't see them using available technology, and/or we couldn't with any degree of certainty or accuracy estimate their distances? Why might you believe that? Humans are God's special project (He created us in his image, after all), and endowed us with the unique capacity to reason (you DO believe that, right?). He also gave us the ability to do math, be scientific and technological, and all sorts of other neat stuff, like build telescopes and rocket ships and whatsuch. Again, by your own admission, God can do ANYTHING. So why couldn't He have given us the ability to see an object as big as a galaxy (they're quite large, you know) from a distance of 13 billion light years, and estimate somewhat closely its distance from us? If 13 billion is such a large number as to be laughable, what distances fall within the realm of your believability? One light year? A hundred? A thousand miles? How far away do you think it could be, and on what do you base your estimate?

How would any of this possibly be reconciled with God creating a firmament over the earth -- within which is the sun, moon and stars -- with water above that firmament?

Short answer is -----> it can't be.

Again, why can't it be? I'm sure you'll claim you've answered my questions, but you've dodged them. What distances fall within a range you'd be able to buy, and where in the Bible would you find reinforcement for that belief? Why couldn't the outer edge of the firmament be quadrillions of light years away? The notion actually supports what the Bible says - if the stars are under the firmament and are light years away, the firmament must be HUGE. If they aren't light years away, how far away are they (max), and where in the Bible is this limit found or hinted at?

Your arguments - all of them - are completely devoid of reason, logic, substance, or rationality. Of course, you don't see that, and all of them make perfect sense to you. You use junk science (I'm trying to be nice & respectful here, since the more accurate term would be unadulterated bullshit) to back up your positions, which all fall back on scripture. It's one thing to have faith. It's another to abandon reason in the name of faith. Faith and reason can coexist. You've simply chosen not to allow them to in your mind.

I'll probably read your responses, but it makes no sense for me to continue this discussion with you. In fact, I probably wasted valuable time writing what I already have, because in the words of Joe Walsh (who may or not be a Christian), you can't argue with a sick mind.

Get well soon.

[Moving Sale]

Then maybe you can help me with some of my questions Mr. Chan.

[R-Jack]

When that is taken care of, explain why I need only a half inch every ten feet for my gutters.

[Atomic Punk]

When that is taken care of, explain why I need only a half inch every ten feet for my gutters.

Because that's just all Blondiebabe needs.

-Perk

[poptart]

That's been established. What hasn't been is why you don't believe it. Because you don't trust the messenger (NASA)?

Because I've already seen overwhelming evidence (to me) that we absolutely never went to the moon.

Whatever NASA pumps out has ZERO credibility in my eyes.

If you believe it, that's up to you.

Everyone can think as they wish.

I'm just giving my takes -- and honestly, it is very evident to me that most folks are walking around in some kind of a fog.


2 Thessalonian 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


There is a very big delusion coming, and most of you are ill-equipped to see things for what they are.

You better get your soul right so you can get your mind right.

I'm not much impressed with what I read from 95% of you.