First Ever Muscle Car

[Go Coogs']

Dealerships were flooded with the S197s (previous generation)these last six weeks I guess because everyone wants the new Stang. They were going cheap, so I bought one. It's stock and still under warranty, so I'm gonna mod the shit out of it once that warranty ends.

420 HP is just ridiculous. Direction I'm going is Corsa GT500 Style quad exhaust, Steeda CAI, Boss 302 intake manifold, and a BAMA Tuner. I'll probably leave the headers alone considering emissions inspection is tough to pass with aftermarket headers. Should bring total HP to rear wheel in the 430s once all the mods are done.

Looking forward to the project.


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[smackaholic]

Nice. Bought the OL a used '12 V-6, 6 speed. She likes it. The 6 does pretty good, but you gotta wring it out to get much. My only complaint is the shifter is horrible. It is the first vehicle I have ever owned that I wish I bought with an auto. I have rented similar ones with the 6 speed auto and they did pretty well. From what I unedrstand the GT has the same shit chinese 6 speed. The GT350R has a different one that is supposed to be better. When we were in vegas, I rented a V-6 camaro. 8 speed auto, paddle shifters and it was a fukking riot to drive. I would bet it would give the GT all it could handle and likely beat it in the twisties. Very impressive for a V-6 rental secretary car.

So, what'd you give them for it?

[Go Coogs']

2014 with 31k miles. $22k+ttl. Leather, no Nav, no heated seats, shaker system.


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[Screw_Michigan]

Nice car, Rumps. Does your wife fit in it?

[Go Coogs']

Nice car, Rumps. Does your wife fit in it?

Her tits don't.


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[Mikey]

Looks like fun.

But seriously, in the next few years even a mid-range electric car will be able to leave almost any gas engine muscle car in the dust limited mostly by self-governing controls.

Already, a Model S equipped with "ludicrous mode" will do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The Model X SUV will do 2.9, faster than a McLaren F1.

[smackaholic]

Looks like fun.

But seriously, in the next few years even a mid-range electric car will be able to leave almost any gas engine muscle car in the dust limited mostly by self-governing controls.

Already, a Model S equipped with "ludicrous mode" will do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The Model X SUV will do 2.9, faster than a McLaren F1.

Not in a $30K car, they won't. Teslas are all 6 figure. Really more, if you factor in the tax $$$ that go into every one.

[Mikey]

Looks like fun.

But seriously, in the next few years even a mid-range electric car will be able to leave almost any gas engine muscle car in the dust limited mostly by self-governing controls.

Already, a Model S equipped with "ludicrous mode" will do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The Model X SUV will do 2.9, faster than a McLaren F1.

Not in a $30K car, they won't. Teslas are all 6 figure. Really more, if you factor in the tax $$$ that go into every one.

They will. Just not yet.

And completely wrong about the price.

The Model S starts at $56K, including $10K in tax credits. Not quite six figures there. It's relatively slow, though, at 5.5 sec for 0-60.
The 90D (AWD) is a little faster at 4.2 sec. Still well under six figures at $77,700 including $10K in tax credits.
The ludicrous model (P100D) does start at $120.
The model 3 starts at $35K (before incentives, so it should be under $30K after tax credits) and still under 6 sec for 0-60.

https://www.tesla.com/models/design

This is just the beginning. Like I said, IN A FEW YEARS, all the major makers will be coming out with electric vehicles and just by the nature of electric motors vs. gas engines the acceleration performance will won't even compare.
The Chevy Bolt is already available. Still a little pricey at $39K (under $30K after tax credits) but its little 200 HP electric motor produces 266 lb/ft of torque.

[Joe in PB]

Very nice Coogs, congratulations. These cars are a blast to drive and I prefer the old school styling of the S197 to the new version, which while I love the rear of the new cars, the front is too much like a Fusion for my taste.

I recently traded my 2011 v6 manual for a 2014 GT manual with 17k miles. The manuals are a blast to drive, just need to do a good test drive to ensure you have a good one. The GT shifts smooth & better than the 6. It seems to me that Ford has worked out most, if not all the bugs of the earlier model years.



I modded the crap out of the 6, and will minimize the mods on the 2014. One thing I will be doing is replacing the stock mufflers with some Borla axlebacks (S-Type). The sound of the engine is half the fun for me, lol.



Dropping off the 2011 was like saying goodbye to an old friend.



Have fun Coogs!

[Left Seater]

I don't get the tax incentives for electric cars. They still need charging from the grid, where the vast majority of the power comes from the burning of carbon based fuels.

[Joe in PB]

Not to mention battery production is not envionmentally friendy, and road trips are rather short. Mostly commuter/errand vehicles. There are quite a few Tesla out here, some that look very nice, like an Aston Martin. I do believe electric is the future, perhaps with solar panels up top for places like So Cal.

[Go Coogs']

Looks like fun.

But seriously, in the next few years even a mid-range electric car will be able to leave almost any gas engine muscle car in the dust limited mostly by self-governing controls.
.

Yeah, but sound of combustion with an aftermarket exhaust will always leave the ladies wet.

Electric direct drive cars are the future, but I don't think American muscle is going anywhere soon.



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[Mikey]

I don't get the tax incentives for electric cars. They still need charging from the grid, where the vast majority of the power comes from the burning of carbon based fuels.

It seems like the incentives are about $10K per vehicle.

I'm not saying the incentive is completely justified, but the efficiency of fossil fuel power plant --> electric generation --> transmission --> electric car is quite a bit higher and less polluting that burning gasoline in an internal combustion engine. You can probably find a range of calculations favoring one approach or the other, but the maximum efficiency of an internal combustion engine is between 25% and 30%. Modern natural gas fired combined cycle power plants (which is the the main technology for marginal generation, at least around here) have a thermal efficiency of about 55% (HHV). The electric motor efficiency is probably 95%+, and you lose a small amount in transmission and storage (if used), but the system efficiency is still quite a bit higher than the IC engine. Plus, a lot of EV charging stations are being built now to utilize PV + battery storage.

[Mikey]

Not to mention battery production is not envionmentally friendy, and road trips are rather short. Mostly commuter/errand vehicles. There are quite a few Tesla out here, some that look very nice, like an Aston Martin. I do believe electric is the future, perhaps with solar panels up top for places like So Cal.

The new Chevy Bolt has a 300 mile range.

The thing about putting solar panels on top is that you'll never get enough out of a couple of panels to actually power the car. Maybe the ventilation fan and radio, but not the drive motor. A typical rooftop solar panel puts out maybe 200 watts when the sun is shining directly on it. A 100 HP motor (about 75 kW) would need the output of about 375 PV panels if you floored it. That's why you need big batteries. My Fusion Energi hybrid has a range of about 24 miles on electric power only with a charge of about 5.6 kWh. That takes about 6 hours of charging from a 120 V outlet.

[Joe in PB]

I'd also expect the Fed & state government to step in before long and put a governor on electric cars. Right now they expensive, but once the general population gets a hold of them and flips, rolls, and launches them off road they'll be regulated. Especially in places like Nazifornia & Commychusetts.

[Mikey]

I'd also expect the Fed & state government to step in before long and put a governor on electric cars. Right now they expensive, but once the general population gets a hold of them and flips, rolls, and launches them off road they'll be regulated. Especially in places like Nazifornia & Commychusetts.

I know that Coogs and others like the manly exhaust sound but, to me, the cool thing about electric is that you can sneak up behind people walking across a parking lot and they never hear you.

[Dinsdale]

I see Teslas all the time around here, mostly the Model S, with a few of the sports cars (whatever they call the little one) when I'm hanging in Lake Oswego (wealthy burb for the most part -- I also see plenty of Lambos and Ferraris). I remember sitting at a light and seeing a Model S put on a jaw-dropping launch off the line.

Mikey mentions the 266 lb/ft of the Bolt. What is lost on many, is that electric motor makes that 266 lb/ft at 1RPM, or 10,000RPM (for the most part). There is no torque-curve on an electric, for the most part. Combine an electric with a CV transmission, and you're hauling ass.

Saw a show quite a while back where a redneck had rigged up an old Datsun B210 with electric motors and a bunch of batteries (and tubs and slicks). Dude was throwing down insane 1/4 mile times -- I forget the exact number, but I seem to remember he was pulling 9's... in a freaking B210.

[smackaholic]

The torque number is actually max torque at zero rpms. at higher revs the torque numbers start dropping away, but yeah, you never beat an electric motor for putting down tractible power on launches. If they ever can get the battery prices down to a manageable level, we'll be all set. If.

[BSmack]

I'd also expect the Fed & state government to step in before long and put a governor on electric cars. Right now they expensive, but once the general population gets a hold of them and flips, rolls, and launches them off road they'll be regulated. Especially in places like Nazifornia & Commychusetts.

Yeah I suppose any place that actually has any kind of traffic congestion might have an interest in keeping me vehicle traffic at under 200 miles an hour.

[smackaholic]

I would like to see more development of hybrid vehicles following the Volt architecture. Basically, an electric car with a backup generator. The only issue I have with the Volt is its ICE is too big and heavy. There are some companies that have developed prototypes following this architecture. One, I believe it was Audi actuary used a small rotary engine. It was a single rotor, maybe 300 cc. Rotaries have their issues, but they kick ass when it comes to power to weight ratio. Another option I have seen is micro-turbines. Jet engines have crazy power/weight ratios. Their drawback is the have to run at full power to be efficient. This is not an issue if they are just spinning a generator. Another nice thing is they will run on just about anything. I believe they do pretty well with CNG. And we have lots of it. Unfortunately, trying to store CNG in a portable tank is troubelsome. It is why your grill uses propane rather than CNG.

[Dinsdale]

I would like to see more development of hybrid vehicles following the Volt architecture. Basically, an electric car with a backup generator.

That would be an "electric hybrid." As opposed to a "true hybrid," like the Prius, for example. The Prius has an electric motor, and a gosoline engine, both hooked into the (ingeniously designed) transmission.

I'll tell you what -- the Prius is a marvel of automotive engineering. I love that car. My issue is with the people who buy them.


I think your idea of turbine engines powering an electric hybrid might have some potential.

[Joe in PB]

I'll tell you what -- the Prius is a marvel of automotive engineering. I love that car. My issue is with the people who buy them.

Yeah pretty funny around here, many buy it, then drive 85 mph, lol. At 80-85 the mpg drop to 28-31 in hilly San Diego, kind of defeating the purpose. My girl friend got 3 tickets going 85. I told her to set the CC to 80 and the Highway Patrol will get the others going 80+. It took two more tickets for her to get it. :doh:

[Joe in PB]

Nice. Bought the OL a used '12 V-6, 6 speed. She likes it. The 6 does pretty good, but you gotta wring it out to get much. My only complaint is the shifter is horrible.

Usually the problem is the Mustang's unibody tolerance stacking. The fix is to mount the shifter to the tranny and problem solved using the Blowfish bracket. Good luck.

Blowfish Bracket

[Mikey]

The Ford hybrid is like the Toyota, both electric motor and gas engine in the drive train. The electric motor is rated at 88 kW (about 117 HP) and a 2.0 L Atkinson cycle engine rated at 141 HP. The plug-in version can be run in electric only mode until the main battery gets depleted. Together the electric and gas will produce 195 HP.

CNG is mostly methane, and propane is...propane. A big difference is that CNG (compressed natural gas) is compressed, where your liquid propane is...liquid. There's also LNG which, pretty obviously, is liquid natural gas. The energy density (energy per unit volume) of the liquid is a lot higher than the gas, simply because the liquid is a lot denser than the compressed gas. The problem with liquid fuel in a tank is that it's not nearly as readily available to burn as the compressed form. The gas you burn in your bbq has to evaporate off the surface of the liquid before it gets to your burner.

The energy densities of LNG, liquid propane and liquid butane are all pretty similar. This chart shows energy per unit volume on the vertical axis and energy per unit mass on the horizontal. Notice that the CNG (at 250 bar) has the same energy per unit mass as LNG but a lot lower energy per unit volume.



Microturbines were a big deal about 10 or 15 years ago, and were thought to be the prime mover of the future for cars by a lot of people. Capstone has been selling 60 kW (and larger) natural gas microturbines for on-site (distributed) electric generation since the 1990s. There are two big problems with microturbines.

1) They're less polluting than gasoline engines but their electrical efficiency isn't really any higher. They have an advantage for combined heat and power (CHP) applications because they produce a very high quality (i.e. high temperature) waste heat that can be recovered and used for heating water or for other processes. This doesn't really give them any advantage in automotive applications.

2) They're a maintenance nightmare. The compressor-turbine section rotates at about 96,000 RPM. I haven't worked with these things for several years but they were always breaking down. Not what you want for a car. Compared to an electric motor, which is almost maintenance-free, they pretty much suck dependability-wise.

[Mikey]

I think your idea of turbine engines powering an electric hybrid might have some potential.

Fuel cells have a lot more potential for this, IMHO. Fuel cell cars are really electric cars running on eletricity produced by a fuel cell.

For one thing, fuel cells are about twice as efficient as microturbine generators. Plus, they basically have no moving parts. The problem is, they run on hydrogen, which you can't just pump out of the ground. You have to make it out of natural gas (reformation) or use electricity to produce it from seawater, which really makes it more of an energy storage medium than a fuel. The combined efficiency of producing hydrogen through electrical hydrolysis and then back to electricity with a fuel cell is probably around 30% (WAG). Reforming natural gas to hydrogen and then using it in a fuel cell car is probably quite a bit higher than using a microturbine generator, with a lot less maintenance.

[Joe in PB]

It's stock and still under warranty, so I'm gonna mod the shit out of it once that warranty ends.

420 HP is just ridiculous. Direction I'm going is Corsa GT500 Style quad exhaust, Steeda CAI, Boss 302 intake manifold, and a BAMA Tuner. I'll probably leave the headers alone considering emissions inspection is tough to pass with aftermarket headers. Should bring total HP to rear wheel in the 430s once all the mods are done.

Looking forward to the project.

Sent from Screwey's Lint Filter

LOL

[smackaholic]

I would like to see more development of hybrid vehicles following the Volt architecture. Basically, an electric car with a backup generator.

That would be an "electric hybrid." As opposed to a "true hybrid," like the Prius, for example. The Prius has an electric motor, and a gosoline engine, both hooked into the (ingeniously designed) transmission.

I'll tell you what -- the Prius is a marvel of automotive engineering. I love that car. My issue is with the people who buy them.


I think your idea of turbine engines powering an electric hybrid might have some potential.

[Go Coogs']

It's stock and still under warranty, so I'm gonna mod the shit out of it once that warranty ends.

420 HP is just ridiculous. Direction I'm going is Corsa GT500 Style quad exhaust, Steeda CAI, Boss 302 intake manifold, and a BAMA Tuner. I'll probably leave the headers alone considering emissions inspection is tough to pass with aftermarket headers. Should bring total HP to rear wheel in the 430s once all the mods are done.

Looking forward to the project.

Sent from Screwey's Lint Filter

LOL

Bwah!


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