Harvey

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:33 pm

A pump sprayer with bleach wouldn't hurt but it likely isn't necessary.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:15 pm

Bleach only kills mold on hard surfaces. It doesn't work on wood. All it would do is add moisture.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:26 pm

I don't see why it wouldn't work. Probably not needed though as it seems like he's doing a pretty good job drying it out.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:26 am

I'm using a mold remover and prevention spray.

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Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:28 am

smackaholic wrote:Is the blue/black thing a dehumidifier?

Yes. It's industrial size. Has a pump with a float built in that kicks on when the level gets high and I have a hose running to the toilet.

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smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:51 am

Are you able to run the HVAC system? That ought to help dry things out.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:31 pm

smackaholic wrote:Are you able to run the HVAC system? That ought to help dry things out.

Fucking brilliant.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:45 pm

Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:Are you able to run the HVAC system? That ought to help dry things out.
Fucking brilliant.

I know, right? Houston has never ever flooded before, so we're looking for ideas from Rochester and the likes.

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BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:34 pm

Go Coogs' wrote:
Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:Are you able to run the HVAC system? That ought to help dry things out.
Fucking brilliant.
I know, right? Houston has never ever flooded before, so we're looking for ideas from Rochester and the likes.

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Hey don't get me involved in this. Holic is from the next state over.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:50 pm

I don't have central air seeing as I live in a place where it is t needed, but I am pretty sure one of its benefits is that it dehumidifies air. Is this not the case?

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Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:20 am

Good God, you are a fucking moron.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:03 am

Let me help with basic chemistry -- as temperature drops, RH goes up.

You're welcome.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:14 am

Goober McTuber wrote:Good God, you are a fucking moron.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:36 am

Many of the HVAC systems also include a dehumidifier in the Houston area.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:02 am

Dinsdale wrote:Let me help with basic chemistry -- as temperature drops, RH goes up.

You're welcome.

Actually thermodynamics. More specifically, psychrometrics.

And yes, as you lower the air temperature relative humidity will increase until it reaches 100%, at a temperature known as "dew point." At that point water starts condensing out of the air, decreasing the absolute humidity. If you then heat the air back to its original temperature you will have drier air than you started out with. Basic dehumidification and exactly what that big thing in Coogs's picture is doing. It chills the air, wrings some of the water out and heats it back up all in one box. There's no doubt a little hose attached to drain away the condensate.

You're welcome. And 'holic was at least partially right.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:04 am

Dehumidifying is inherent in an AC system. Notice that cars typically run the AC compressor when in defog mode.

You run humid air across a cold coil and water will come out of the air, and condense on the coil. Ever notice the puddle under your car when the AC runs? It would likely work best if you ran the AC and the heat, assuming you have electric resistance backup. This would take some sort of wiring trickery.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:06 am

Left Seater wrote:Many of the HVAC systems also include a dehumidifier in the Houston area.

While that may be true, my HVAC system doesn't include a dehumidifier, either here or in the Houston area . :wink:

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:24 am

Your HVAC system IS a dehumidifier, as I have been attempting to explain to these fukking idiots. And you are correct, a dehumidifier is simply an AC system that does not vent its heat outside.

If coogs has a window somewhere close to his HVAC system, maybe he could rig up some sort of tent against the house to recover that heat. If not, just run a handful of electric resistance heaters inside.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:30 am

Dinsdale wrote:Let me help with basic chemistry -- as temperature drops, RH goes up.

You're welcome.

Let me help you with basic thermodynamics and simple observation. Relative humidity does increase as temp lowers which is why an evap coil sweats its ass off as humid air passes over it. This condensate puddles in a tray beneath the evap and is vented outside.

The bottom line is, an HVAC system removes water, aka humidity from the system. And this kinda what we are trying to do here. You can add eletric resistance heating to get air temp back up.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:36 am

Goober McTuber wrote:Good God, you are a fucking moron.

Explain to me, exactly why.

At least Dins attempts to use some sort of science to call me a moron.

Does the HVAC system in your car run the AC pump when you have the defogger on?

I'll answer for you, you fukking dolt.

Yes it does. In some cases you cab defeat this function. Try running your car AC in the driveway with the windows closed for 15 minutes on a humid day.

What do you find under the car, dumbass?

You find a puddle of water.

Wanna know where it got that water?

It got it out of the humid air in the car. And what do you think happened to that humidity level?

It went down.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:40 am

smackaholic wrote: You can add eletric resistance heating to get air temp back up.

Or you could add a couple of these and get the heat right the fuck up there is a hurry. Used these for that a few times, and keeping greenhouses at 68 degrees with an outside temp at 15 degrees with single layer poly on them.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 am

smackaholic wrote:Your HVAC system IS a dehumidifier, as I have been attempting to explain to these fukking idiots. And you are correct, a dehumidifier is simply an AC system that does not vent its heat outside.

Not exactly. You still need to do something with all that water.

If coogs has a window somewhere close to his HVAC system, maybe he could rig up some sort of tent against the house to recover that heat. If not, just run a handful of electric resistance heaters inside.

Or just use one or more of these, which is designed to do exactly that easily, neatly and efficiently without having to jury rig some contraption with a tent and an electric heater.

Oh wait. He's already doing that.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:04 pm

My system in Houston had a dehumidifier as part of the unit. There was still a condensation pan under the coils but there was a separate de humidifier with a dedicated line to a nearby sink drain pipe. Plenty of people argued over energy efficiency of having one or not. I didn't care one way or the other on that part. I just enjoyed the lower humidity level inside the house.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:42 pm

There's a big difference between a "bare" AC system and a dehumidifier. Most AC systems, at least commercial types and I'm sure it applies to residential as well, are set so that the coil will cool the air down to 45 or 50 deg. Any colder and it won't feel good in the room. If the air is quite humid it will condense some of the water out. In areas like Houston that are quite humid it will take a lot of water out, but the 45 or 50 degree air coming out of the supply is at 100% RH until it mixes with the 72 degree air (or whatever you have your thermostat set to) in the space. Around here you might not get any condensate except during exceptionally hot humid weather.

A dehumidifier will cool the air below that 45 or 50 degree temperature that your AC obtains, and remove even more water and then re-heat the air to a comfortable temperature. That way you get nice, dry, comfortable air. And yes, it's not very efficient because it takes a lot of energy to condense that water out but if you want dry air that's what you do. There are also desiccant dehumidifiers but, either way, you pay an energy penalty to remove the water. A desiccant dehumidifier has a chemical that will pull water out of the air without cooling it down. But once the desiccant is saturated you still need to regenerate it by blowing hot air over it to pull the water out.

The latent heat of vaporization of water is almost 1,000 Btu/lb. That's the amount of heat it takes to turn liquid water to steam at 212 deg without changing the temperature. It's almost the same to turn water vapor to liquid at room temperature. In humid areas of the country the energy that an AC system uses to condense water out of the air, even without extra dehumidification, can be 40% to 50% of the total used by the system.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:46 pm

Man, if I could just get my hands on a couple of dehumidifiers...

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smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:23 pm

Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:Your HVAC system IS a dehumidifier, as I have been attempting to explain to these fukking idiots. And you are correct, a dehumidifier is simply an AC system that does not vent its heat outside.
Not exactly. You still need to do something with all that water.

I agree and it exists already. AC evap units have drains that go either into the house's drain or outside.

If coogs has a window somewhere close to his HVAC system, maybe he could rig up some sort of tent against the house to recover that heat. If not, just run a handful of electric resistance heaters inside.
Or just use one or more of these, which is designed to do exactly that easily, neatly and efficiently without having to jury rig some contraption with a tent and an electric heater.

Oh wait. He's already doing that.

Yes, I realize he has a humidifier(s). What I simply said is that, why not run the AC, in addition, as it has dehumidifying qualities as well. I do see one possible problem, that being if you keep the saturated wood studs cool, they are slower to release moisture.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:40 pm

smackaholic wrote:

Yes, I realize he has a humidifier(s). What I simply said is that, why not run the AC, in addition, as it has dehumidifying qualities as well. I do see one possible problem, that being if you keep the saturated wood studs cool, they are slower to release moisture.

If you really want to go there, the best thing may be to turn the AC off, get a couple of dehumidifiers and a couple of those big ass heaters that Derron showed. Point the heaters directly at the wettest areas, and move them around as the wood dries out. That way you'll drive the moisture out of the materials with dry heat, and remove it from the air with the dehumidifiers.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:56 pm

Those are propane powered though, aren't they? Might not be a really good idea inside. Also, if I am not mistaken, propane has a a good bit of moisture in it and creates a damp heat. Might be thinking of LNG actually. I remember reading something about gas powered ovens being preferable to electric because they did not dry the food out as badly.

Anyhooo, seems like Rumps has a pretty good handle on things. Good luck dude. Hopefully the gulf won't piss all over you again anytime soon.

Still waiting to hear about exterior wall issues? How many hours was your place submerged? Is the sheathing behind the bricks plywood? I guess it could take a few hours of submersion. If it's OSB though... maybe not.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:08 pm

Restoration companies are using multiple heaters with an outdoor generator, but it's not necessary. I'm already at a 12-15 at 95% of my studs without any of that fancy shit.

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mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:54 pm

Mikey wrote:If you really want to go there, the best thing may be to turn the AC off, get a couple of dehumidifiers and a couple of those big ass heaters that Derron showed. Point the heaters directly at the wettest areas, and move them around as the wood dries out. That way you'll drive the moisture out of the materials with dry heat, and remove it from the air with the dehumidifiers.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:59 am

When I worked for a school district in maintenance about 30 years ago, we had one school that broke a sprinkler line because the building contractor put it in an unheated space. It pumped thousands of gallons of water into one wing of the school over Christmas break. Soaked everything. We pulled all the carpets and laminate flooring and sheet rock up 18 inches.

The we put a series of those propane heaters in there left doors and windows open and used some of these huge fans to move the heated air around and out. Hot air and moisture out, even in a humid Western Oregon winter.

We had that building at 84 degrees for three days with a lot of air moving through it and it dryed out just fine. Since Coogs is at 12% on the studs, he will have that bitch rocked and painted by the time you girls decide how he should do it.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:06 am

mvscal wrote:
Mikey wrote:If you really want to go there, the best thing may be to turn the AC off, get a couple of dehumidifiers and a couple of those big ass heaters that Derron showed. Point the heaters directly at the wettest areas, and move them around as the wood dries out. That way you'll drive the moisture out of the materials with dry heat, and remove it from the air with the dehumidifiers.

OK perfesser. I assume you must have some experience in this area, so why don't you go ahead and explain exactly what's wrong with this scheme.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:21 am

I don't think he was calling you out mikey, he is just standing there, awestruck, as are the rest of us, in your wizardness. It's sort of like with let's turd, but in reverse.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:28 am

Dang it, Coogs, I am going to ask you nicely, one more time before resorting to balck cock and mrs rumps jokes.

What about your exterior walls?

You have brick veneer which is tacked up against either plywood or OSB. Did this stand up to the dunking OK or are gonna have to go back and rip down a shit ton of bricks and replace it all at some point?

Can't tell from the picks if it is plywood or OSB.

Maybe in the south they use some sort of PT plywood knowing the high probability that it will come into contact with water at some point. I spose you could do the whole thing in marine grade stuff but we're talkin' 88 type money to do that.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:39 am

There is one type of construction I have not seen in all the pics and it seems to me, it would be very well suited to the area. That is the "raised ranch". When I lived in TN, it was referred to as split foyer. It was extremely common in these places in the 70s, because, you get a lot of house for the money.

For those that don't know, it is basically a Ranch with a basement, but the basement is not buried. The basement/first floor walls are typically block/poured concrete up to about to 4 ft.

This isn't done much anymore as it isn't the prettiest house in the world, but in a place that is prone to hip deep water, it's certainly worth considering.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:17 pm

I don't understand why Smacky, others and the media keep thinking these areas of Houston flood every few years. Yes some do but the reason this is such a big story is that areas protected by levees or places in the 1000-10000 year flood plain got wet.

Show me an area that can absorb 50 plus inches in a few days that wouldn't have some sort of issues. Those are few and far between.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:46 pm

smackaholic wrote:I don't think he was calling you out mikey, he is just standing there, awestruck, as are the rest of us, in your wizardness. It's sort of like with let's turd, but in reverse.

You might be right. Not being a millennial type interwebs honk I didn't understand the 2010 era wizard meme until I looked it up on AltaVista.

Fact is, I didn't even know what "meme" meant until my daughter told me about it sometime last year. I always figured it was something opera singers did to warm up their vocal chords.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:01 pm

smackaholic wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:Good God, you are a fucking moron.
Explain to me, exactly why.

At least Dins attempts to use some sort of science to call me a moron.

Not me. I just use basic observational skills.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:23 am

Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:I don't think he was calling you out mikey, he is just standing there, awestruck, as are the rest of us, in your wizardness. It's sort of like with let's turd, but in reverse.
You might be right. Not being a millennial type interwebs honk I didn't understand the 2010 era wizard meme until I looked it up on AltaVista.

Fact is, I didn't even know what "meme" meant until my daughter told me about it sometime last year. I always figured it was something opera singers did to warm up their vocal chords.

I still think meme is what my French Canuck friends call their grandma.

Or was that memere?

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:17 pm

'holic, to answer your question about the exterior, I have to replace three windows, re-caulk and paint hardyboard trim around garage doors, and apply an outdoor mold/bleach/water mixture to the brick and stone and pressure wash it.

I'm dry in the house. Electrician coming next week along with mold inspection. Drywall going up the following Monday.

Still need to buy a car though.

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