ESPN declines to pick up option on NHL TV contract...

[Shoalzie]

We'll have only local cable and NBC as the TV home for the NHL if they play this year. They're losing fans, money, integrity, sponsors, and now ESPN. I hope this was all worth it, dumbasses... :x


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2070927

[fix]

But hockey is thriving in our southern markets and in expansions markets such as Nashville, Atlanta and Columbus.

-Gary 'I'm going to win at any costs' Betteman


Sad part about it all is.. Winnipeg and Quebec City could and would be able to sell out each and every game.
But they're not a southern market.

Cherry for commissioner.. give us back our game.

[JD]

I hate that argument.

Fact is, Winnipeg and Quebec City WEREN'T selling out when they had teams, so why the fuck do you think they would be now? Maybe for a while, until they realize they're watching uncompetitive teams and the novelty wears off....

Besides, the fact that hockey is or isn't working in those markets has nothing to do with why ESPN is cancelling. The ratings just weren't good. Ever. Poker and bowling have been known to get better ratings on ESPN. It just makes good business sense to drop the NHL.

The USA as a whole doesn't care that much about hockey. Thankfully for the regions that do give a rats ass about it, they'll still have their local stations to cover their teams.

[fix]

I hate that argument.

Fact is, Winnipeg and Quebec City WEREN'T selling out when they had teams, so why the fuck do you think they would be now? Maybe for a while, until they realize they're watching uncompetitive teams and the novelty wears off....

Besides, the fact that hockey is or isn't working in those markets has nothing to do with why ESPN is cancelling. The ratings just weren't good. Ever. Poker and bowling have been known to get better ratings on ESPN. It just makes good business sense to drop the NHL.

The USA as a whole doesn't care that much about hockey. Thankfully for the regions that do give a rats ass about it, they'll still have their local stations to cover their teams.

Hockey returned to Minnesota sucessfully did it not? There's another city and franchise which up and left largely because of their want for a new arena.
Fact is, the Jets did average over 13 000 fans per game and that was in the Winnipeg Arean which had a maximum capacity of 15,393. And that arena was 40 years old back then with lousy seats and bad sightlines.

The Spirit of Manitoba campaign brought in $60 million, about $20 million of which came from individuals, so don't tell me that the fans didn't support that team.
The Jets left Winnipeg because of ownership, not a lack of fan support.

Quebec left because Marcel Aubut sold out when the Quebec government wouldn't give him a hand out. The same type of golden deals that governments in American markets were providing for teams.. building them new stadiums.. tax breaks.. etc...not for a lack of fan base.

All of Canada is a hockey hot bed..
So why does the NHL insist on catering itself to markets which aren't going to work, ever. ?
Because Betteman refuses to admit that he's an idiot. It was his vision of where the NHL should place teams and what an expanded NHL would look like, Betteman is responsible for declining tv ratings ever since he took over as commissioner. He's been the number 1 reason why hockey is so fucked up.
And since Canada is a hockey hot bed, unlike the majority of Americans, we'd rather watch hockey, be it junior or NHL than poker, college football, bowling or freak'n spelling bees.
What I'm saying is.. quit catering and trying to sell it to a market place that doesn't give a shit about hockey and start concentrating on where it does thrive.

[JD]

If those markets were so hockey-crazed, why weren't they selling out? That was what I was questioning... not whether they deserved their teams or not. Why is Winnipeg not selling out different than Florida not selling out? Because of the perceived hockey-mad market? That's garbage. The bottom line is that the Florida team(s) can make enough money to survive in the NHL. If they can't, let them move too.

Hockey returned to Minnesota successfully because the Twin Cities are a major metropolis with a thriving economy. Winnipeg is a has-been prairie town with a slouching economy. No similarities there, other than perhaps the strong hockey tradition in the regions.

I'm saying that you needed more than fan base to survive in the previous incarnation of the NHL. I have a hunch the new NHL will be more conducive to survival in places like Winnipeg.

Your anger towards Bettman is likely misplaced. Remember that he's merely the puppet of the NHL Board of Governors. He follows their directives. When he was hired, his #1 assignment was to expand hockey to the non-traditional markets. That makes sense to me. In any business it makes sense to expand and try to gain bigger shares of pies you don't have your hand in. He did that. That's why he still has a job: he's done everything his Board has asked of him. And that's all he does.

[AcidQueen]

Hockey returned to Minnesota sucessfully did it not? There's another city and franchise which up and left largely because of their want for a new arena.

Actually, no--the Stars played in an old and busted joint their first eight or nine seasons in Dallas. They left because Norm Green wanted to be an asshole and fuck Minnesota hard even after the Minnesota Assembly bent over backwards to get public money put up for a new barn--NOT because he wanted a new barn.

So why does the NHL insist on catering itself to markets which aren't going to work, ever. ?

Yeah, you know--places like St. Louis, Los Angeles, Washington.... Those places have been around for 30 years and haven't done shit--so let's just get rid of them too.

:roll:

[AcidQueen]

If those markets were so hockey-crazed, why weren't they selling out? That was what I was questioning... not whether they deserved their teams or not. Why is Winnipeg not selling out different than Florida not selling out? Because of the perceived hockey-mad market? That's garbage. The bottom line is that the Florida team(s) can make enough money to survive in the NHL. If they can't, let them move too.

Hockey returned to Minnesota successfully because the Twin Cities are a major metropolis with a thriving economy. Winnipeg is a has-been prairie town with a slouching economy. No similarities there, other than perhaps the strong hockey tradition in the regions.

I'm saying that you needed more than fan base to survive in the previous incarnation of the NHL. I have a hunch the new NHL will be more conducive to survival in places like Winnipeg.

Your anger towards Bettman is likely misplaced. Remember that he's merely the puppet of the NHL Board of Governors. He follows their directives. When he was hired, his #1 assignment was to expand hockey to the non-traditional markets. That makes sense to me. In any business it makes sense to expand and try to gain bigger shares of pies you don't have your hand in. He did that. That's why he still has a job: he's done everything his Board has asked of him. And that's all he does.

Quoted for truth.

[Hapday]

We'll have only local cable and NBC as the TV home for the NHL if they play this year. They're losing fans, money, integrity, sponsors, and now ESPN. I hope this was all worth it, dumbasses... :x


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2070927

So after June 15, when the NHL officially has close to zero sponsors if any at all, I hope the NHLPA still lobbies hard against the cap..... :roll: :roll:

[Smoked Meat]

Yeah, you know--places like St. Louis, Los Angeles, Washington.... Those places have been around for 30 years and haven't done shit--so let's just get rid of them too.

:roll:

Fear, I sense. When you're attached too much to something you might lose then chances you fall in the dark side are immense (not that I expect you to cheer for the Leafs...)

[Smoked Meat]

JD, where exactly did you see Qc city was not selling out?

[Hapday]

(not that I expect you to cheer for the Senators...)

FTFY. :twisted:

[AcidQueen]

Yeah, you know--places like St. Louis, Los Angeles, Washington.... Those places have been around for 30 years and haven't done shit--so let's just get rid of them too.

:roll:

Fear, I sense. When you're attached too much to something you might lose then chances you fall in the dark side are immense (not that I expect you to cheer for the Leafs...)

:roll:

[Smoked Meat]

[AcidQueen]

You wish.

[tough love]

Wpg + NHL = Support what you got, then we'll talk.

In the final years, the only time Wpg showed support for the Jets was when the team was on a winning streak, and when they fell threat to being moved.

Wpg'errrs can't even summon a steady support for their Moose, which should say to - anyone with intelligence looking to invest millions on a NHL black hole (oxymoron) - to stay the f away from Wpg.

Trouble is; low life investors bank on government support to turn profits for their hobbies, and sadly for the downtrodden taxpayers, there is no shortage of their kind.

[Hapday]

I never thought I would see the day when a CFL franchise seems like a better investment then owning an NHL team.

I hope the players enjoy playing for an average of $40,000 a year when the NHL starts up again. If they hadn't been such sheep, they could have been making an average of $500-750,000 had they signed the agreement in Janurary.

Nothing short of folding the whole league and starting over will save the NHL now. Even if they come back in the fall, 90 per cent of the teams will be looking even bigger losses for many years to come.

[Cuda]

But hockey is thriving in our southern markets and in expansions markets such as Nashville, Atlanta and Columbus.

-Gary 'I'm going to win at any costs' Betteman


Sad part about it all is.. Winnipeg and Quebec City could and would be able to sell out each and every game.
But they're not a southern market.

Cherry for commissioner.. give us back our game.

Why the fuck is Bettman still the commissioner?

Why the fuck was Bettman ever the commissioner?

Bettman's background is in the fucking NBA- and naturally the NBA is heading for a lockout once their season is over this year too.

[JD]

JD, where exactly did you see Qc city was not selling out?

Mostly based on my rusty memory and assumption.... let's dig out some facts:

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Bus ... ndance.htm

My information says that le Colisee holds 15339.

So they didn't do terribly attendance-wise... although they averaged about 1000 short of capacity in a small arena, knowing their team was in trouble. That wasn't a good sign. Especially since the team was poised to become a perennial contender.

On the other hand, their attendance was very impressive in the late 80's and early 90's when the team on the ice was horrific beyond belief.

Maybe Nord fans loved to cheer on a loser? :?

[JD]

Why the fuck is Bettman still the commissioner?

Oh, that one's easy!!

Because he's bending the PA over a barrel and getting exactly what the Board of Governors wanted out of them.

Like I say, hate him as much as you want, Gary Bettman is only doing his job, and unfortunately for Bettman-haters, he's doing it well.

[fix]

Why the fuck is Bettman still the commissioner?

Oh, that one's easy!!

Because he's bending the PA over a barrel and getting exactly what the Board of Governors wanted out of them.

Like I say, hate him as much as you want, Gary Bettman is only doing his job, and unfortunately for Bettman-haters, he's doing it well.

Wrong..

No he is not.

Betteman took over a league that was at it's pinnacle in 94 as far as U.S. tv ratings were concerned.
Gary Bettman actually started in 1993 but he was around for the wildly successful 1993-94 season when ratings were high as the Rangers ended their Stanley Cup drought. Of course, all that goodwill got thrown away with the lockout.
Strike 1

NHL owners, at the behest of Betteman and driven by greed, expanded from 21 to 30 teams during the 1990s, pocketing $50 million and then $80 million per franchise, or as much as the market would bear. But in the end the joke was on them, as increasing the number of teams drove up the price for scarce free agents, who were only allowed their economic freedom at age 31 or 32 under the 1995 collective bargaining agreement. Twice the six-year deal was extended at the league’s request so it could expand in labor peace, but ultimately their greed came back to bite team owners in the wallet.

And let's not forget that it was Bettman that negotiated the deal back in 1995 after locking the players out.

And let's not also forget that is was once again Betteman that extended the deal, twice because it was in the owners and NHL's interests to do so.

Strike 2

Now, with his lock out and cancellation of this past season...

He's killed off the momentum that hockey in Florida had gained with Tampa's Cup win.
He's killed off a lot of sponserships.
And add to this Betteman's idiocy and sheer arrogance with comments like, amidst talk of replacement players and union breaking, Betteman told the Detroit Free Press that he was unconcerned with potential violations of U.S. and Canadian labor law. "I have lots of labor lawyers," he said.

If you only needed one good reason to remove him from his position, it’s that statement.


Betteman Quotes:
http://www.freep.com/sports/redwings/nh ... 040916.htm


Now tell me what Betteman has done that makes him deserve keeping his job...

*Crickets Chirping*


Strike 3.

[JD]

Dude, your insistence of adding that extra fucking e in Bett-man is almost enough for me to question your ability to read and comprehend....

The league expanded from 21 teams to 26 under leaderships OTHER than Gary Bettman. Bettman was responsible for Atlanta, Nashville, Columbus, and Minnesota, all VERY successful franchises to this point, with the possible exception of the Thrashers. Expansion might not have been the right thing for the league at the rate it occurred, but you can't argue with the cities that got teams under Bettman's tenure.

If you go back and read some stories written at the time of the 94 lockout, it was Bettman who recommended to hold out longer, but was pressured by a large portion of his Board to take the deal. It was extended for the same reason. It probably could have been extended further if not for the fact that even the so-called "have" teams started losing gobs of money. Early in the deal, too many teams were buying players, having success with them, and still making money.

At any rate, you're pretty near-sighted to think the lockouts are Bettman's sole doing. Like he's the anti-christ of hockey that loves to shut things down every now and then, just because it gives him a warm fuzzy feeling.

Now tell me what Betteman has done that makes him deserve keeping his job...

He does everything his bosses tell him to do. What more does a guy need to do?

But he's a powerful man indeed if he can even affect TV ratings. Hockey is a niche sport. Always has been, always will be. The NHL as a whole is beginning to come to that realization, Bettman included. The ratings in the mid-nineties weren't that much better than they are now. The fact that the bigger markets (LA and NY) had contending teams was probably the only reason for that in the first place.

I'm far from a big fan of his... I find his deliveries to be condescending and snippety. He is only now beginning to actually understand the game and its nuances. He was probably a poor choice for commissioner back in the day. But despite that, he's done everything asked of him, and IMO, is starting to grow into the role.

[fix]

Dude, your insistence of adding that extra fucking e in Bett-man is almost enough for me to question your ability to read and comprehend....

:roll:

Bettman.. Betteman.. whatever, it's the same jackass.
But go ahead and google Betteman mmkay?

The league expanded from 21 teams to 26 under leaderships OTHER than Gary Bettman. Bettman was responsible for Atlanta, Nashville, Columbus, and Minnesota, all VERY successful franchises to this point, with the possible exception of the Thrashers. Expansion might not have been the right thing for the league at the rate it occurred, but you can't argue with the cities that got teams under Bettman's tenure.

Let's see.. 1993

February 1, 1993, Bettman became the NHL's first--and so far only--commissioner.

October 1993: The NHL season begins with conferences and divisions renamed for geographic regions. The Minnesota North Stars relocate and begin play as the Dallas Stars. [The NHL expands to 26 teams with the addition of the Florida Panthers and Anaheim Mighty Ducks.



Ya, Nashville, Atlanta, Anaheim, Miami and Columbus are all real hockey hotbeds.. (sarcasm implied)

If you go back and read some stories written at the time of the 94 lockout, it was Bettman who recommended to hold out longer, but was pressured by a large portion of his Board to take the deal. It was extended for the same reason. It probably could have been extended further if not for the fact that even the so-called "have" teams started losing gobs of money. Early in the deal, too many teams were buying players, having success with them, and still making money.

Really eh.. is that why he insisted on having his veto power changed from a majority to only 6 votes needed to give him more bargaining power?

At any rate, you're pretty near-sighted to think the lockouts are Bettman's sole doing. Like he's the anti-christ of hockey that loves to shut things down every now and then, just because it gives him a warm fuzzy feeling.

No, I believe he's an idiot whose best gift to hockey will be the day that he either gets fired or resigns.

In fact, I'm not at all surprised at his insistence of a salary cap. I mean what better way for him to bring his NBA experience to the NHL..

Mutual good will continued under the cap until 1991, at which point the NBPA discovered that the league had underreported their income by excluding revenues from luxury suite rentals, playoff ticket sales and arena signage. After a legal dispute in which the league argued that the income fell outside of the defined revenues of the salary cap, and an increase of a total of $92.7 in player salaries and pension funding due to a ruling in favor of the union, the players would no longer look at their agreement with ownership as the "partnership" Stern had frequently proclaimed it.

Now tell me what Betteman has done that makes him deserve keeping his job...

He does everything his bosses tell him to do. What more does a guy need to do?

But he's a powerful man indeed if he can even affect TV ratings. Hockey is a niche sport. Always has been, always will be. The NHL as a whole is beginning to come to that realization, Bettman included. The ratings in the mid-nineties weren't that much better than they are now. The fact that the bigger markets (LA and NY) had contending teams was probably the only reason for that in the first place.

I'm far from a big fan of his... I find his deliveries to be condescending and snippety. He is only now beginning to actually understand the game and its nuances. He was probably a poor choice for commissioner back in the day. But despite that, he's done everything asked of him, and IMO, is starting to grow into the role.

OH!

Well that makes him perfectly suited for the job then.. :roll:

And I mean afterall, we wouldn't want to miss out on the chance of having one of the 5 worst executives as voted on by Business Week...

Gary Bettman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Gary Bruce Bettman (born on June 2, 1952 in Queens, New York) is a former NBA executive who took office as the commissioner of the National Hockey League on February 1, 1993. He was brought in to try to give the NHL some of the same success the NBA (where Bettman served as the assistant general counsel under his mentor David Stern beginning in 1981) has had in the United States.

Bettman studied labor relations at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, and graduated in 1974. After receiving a law degree from New York University in 1977, Bettman joined a large New York City law firm.

Bettman's policies in the NHL have included the aggressive (albeit non-traditional) expansion of the league in the southern and western United States. This expansion led to NHL teams being created in Columbus, Atlanta, Florida (Miami), and teams moving from Hartford and Winnipeg to Carolina and Phoenix respectively. Soon after Bettman took office, the NHL's divisions were renamed to reflect geography (a la the NBA) rather than the league's history (i.e. the Wales & Campbell Conferences). In addition, the league adopted a two-referee system; goal lines, blue lines and defensive-zone circles were moved, and playoff formats were changed.

In 1998, Bettman allowed NHL players to compete in the Olympic Winter Games in Nagano, Japan. This marked the first time that NHL players were allowed to compete in the Olympics. To serve as a tie-in to the Olympics, the All-Star Game altered the format to become a match-up of players from North America against players from everywhere else in the world (effectively Europe). This format was abandoned in 2003 when the All-Star Game returned to the traditional conference vs. conference format.

In 2004 negotiations commenced for a new collective bargaining agreement with the NHL Players Association. As of August 2004, Bettman has consistently demanded what he calls cost certainty for clubs. However, NHLPA head Bob Goodenow, along with most of the NHLPA membership, calls Bettman's "cost certainty" a euphemism for a salary cap; the union has long opposed a salary cap. The current CBA expired on September 15, 2004 (one day after the World Cup of Hockey final in Toronto). A current lockout has cost the NHL the entire 2004-2005 season.

In January 2005, Bettman was named one of Business Week's five worst executives. Included in the list of reasons were the NHL lockout, the league's poor television contract, and constantly declining revenues.
He has often been criticized for not knowing much about the game itself, that he focuses only on making money rather than improving the game as motivation for his policies, for trying to 'Americanize' the sport, and under-appreciating the cultural importance of the game in Canada.

During Bettman's tenure, four franchises have declared bankruptcy (the Ottawa Senators, Buffalo Sabres, Pittsburgh Penguins, and Los Angeles Kings), two Canadian teams relocated to U.S. cities (Winnipeg to Phoenix and Quebec to Colorado), the Hartford Whalers moved to North Carolina and became the Carolina Hurricanes, the 1994-95 season was reduced to 48 games due to a labor dispute, and in 2004, he signed a two-year television deal with NBC that may not guarantee the league revenue.

Gary continues to be a prominent member and activist in the Queens Jewish Community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Bettman

[Smoked Meat]

On the other hand, their attendance was very impressive in the late 80's and early 90's when the team on the ice was horrific beyond belief.

Maybe Nord fans loved to cheer on a loser? :?

Thanks for the link, the Nords still did better than several teams out there.

As for cheering for a loser, I think it's more the myopian factor significantly decreasing after several horrible seasons. The Lindros saga did not help either.

[Hapday]

I hope the NHLPA members are really proud about holding out against that $42-million salary cap. With all the sponsors that have pulled out, the cap they have to agree on will be in the area of $20 million. Way to take a stand NHLPA!!!

When an agreement is settled the NHL owners will get:

a) a much lower salary cap
b) linkage to revenues
c) the 24% rollback in players salaries.

So what was the NHLPA holding out for? No scab NHLers? Great job then. :roll: :roll:

[JD]

Otis:

1) So you're saying that Bettman got those Miami and Anaheim teams in place in 7 months? OK, if you say so. Those were not Bettman's doing. Maybe he would have gone there anyway, but you still can't pin it on him.

2) Columbus and Nashville do nothing but sell out. Who cares if they're hockey hotbeds to start with? It's about building the NHL's fanbase and market share.

3) Bettman hasn't used his veto power. Until you does, you honestly don't know what he'd do with it.

4) A salary cap might have been an NBA thing to start with, but if it was implemented in the NHL 15 years ago, we probably aren't in this mess today. You talk about it as though it's a BAD thing!!

5) Business Week. Well, the fact that he heads one of the most mismanaged entities in North America, he probably deserves that honour. Doesn't necessarily make it his fault. The NHL has a long history of being poorly run. But like I say, when you do what your bosses ask of you, you usually get to keep your job. <--- the answer to your original question that you refuse to acknowledge.

Whether you or Business Week approve of Gary Bettman's work, your opinions simply don't count!!

Those'll be my last words in defense of Gary Bettman. I feel dirty.

[JD]

I hope the NHLPA members are really proud about holding out against that $42-million salary cap. With all the sponsors that have pulled out, the cap they have to agree on will be in the area of $20 million. Way to take a stand NHLPA!!!

Exactly. The leadership of the NHLPA was so out of touch and miscalculated so badly the intentions of the NHL. As I said, Bettman now has Goodenow over a barrel and is about to cram his CBA up Goodenow's ass.

Bob Goodenow is a man that will lose his job. He did a terrible job of representing his association's interests. They've lost hundreds of millions as a collective unit. Unforgiveable.

[fix]

1. Heh.. No, I was trying to sneak that one past you.
I should have know better.
I know that those franchises had already been granted prior to him but I don't think that anyone does doubt that he would have gone there anyways.

2. Well see that's where I disagree with you. Nashville doesn't sell out.
In fact, from 2000 through 2003 their attendance numbers dropped each year.

AVERAGE ATTENDANCE 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03
Calgary Flames 16623 15719 16239
Nashville Predators 15824 14789 13228
Los Angeles Kings 15813 16314 17569
New Jersey Devils 15642 15926 14858
Edmonton Oilers 15612 16539 16657
Washington Capitals 15534 16493 15787
Boston Bruins 15433 15404 15029
Atlanta Thrashers 15263 13368 13476
Chicago Black Hawks 14997 15569 14749

So having teams in cities that don't care enough about the sport to support it is good for building the fan base?
Now there's some radical thinking... we should try that too..
Sin,
CFL circa 1990's

3. Sure he has, otherwise this lockout would have been settled a long time ago.
Remember, Betteman insisted on and had the numbers changed from majority to only 6 owners siding with him in order to get what he wants.

4. No, what I'm saying is that given the owner's past history of lying, fraud etc... what happened in the NBA (from where Bettman came from) is in tune with what will inevitably happen.
The owners won't report their revenues properly.
See: Jeremy Jacobs IRS prosecution if you need any further proof.

5. Alright, let me put it to you in a way you might relate...
Gary Bettman is the PM.. we're the owners. He was put in charge of a profitable league and over the course of a decade, proceeded to run it into a fiscal disaster.
Do you vote him back in?

Those'll be my last words in defense of Gary Bettman. I feel dirty.

Well shit, I should have skipped right to the end of your post...That's all I needed to read.