Cali Fires 2018

[smackaholic]

No one has said that, dumbfukk, other than you.

This is horrible and something needs to be done. Primarily, they need to do whatever can be done to "fireproof" homes and figure out how to manage forests better.

[Kierland]

Idiot you said MMCC was no big deal and would probably be good. Did I mention you are an idiot?

[Bucmonkey]

Roost and Smack, the MENSA's of our lil world...how do you fucks wipe your own ass?

[Mikey]

I went out and raked the yard today really good. Next Sunday I’m going to get started on our local forest.

[Mikey]

No one has said that, dumbfukk, other than you.

This is horrible and something needs to be done. Primarily, they need to do whatever can be done to "fireproof" homes and figure out how to manage forests better.

You don’t follow along very well do you?
Neither of the two large fires burning in CA are forest fires.

Wait...sorry I guess you do follow along OK as long as it’s the idiot in chief that you’re following.

[smackaholic]

OK, perhaps forest is the wrong word. More like scrub brush, with some trees scattered in. My point is, they need to do something in populated areas to keep this shit from happening. Building a bunch of windmills and magic shade trees will not change the fact that this is an arid area prone to fires. Has been for as long as we've been in the area. We are not going to un-climate change our way out of that situation.

[Mikey]

Unfortunately you can't remove all the flammable vegetation from the entire state. It's not "forest management" or any other management that's the problem. It's lack of rain and high winds. An unprecedented lack of rain.

We get a notice every spring from the local fire district to cut down any grass and wild brush before it becomes a fire hazard, and a reminder to create a defensible perimeter around our home. Anybody who doesn't take care of their weeds will result an a contractor coming out to do it for you and you end up paying for it anyway. We have a stucco home with a concrete tile roof and all the vents are screened with fine mesh. No matter what you do, though, if the fire is intense enough and the winds are strong enough and you're in the way, you're likely fucked.

The first responders and technology they use around here to fight fires are all pretty awesome. One reason why everybody goes out of their way to show appreciation to fire fighters. They are truly life savers.

[Mikey]

People who live in fire prone areas have to be ready for fire. The Paradise situation was a disaster waiting to happen, exacerbated by the changing climate.

Malibu also burns periodically. My wife's aunt and uncle built a home in the northern part of Malibu in the 60s before it became the playground for billionaires and movie stars. He was a fire fighter, and he died from emphysema. Their house burned once while he was alive and they rebuilt. It came close to getting hit again in 1993, shortly after she passed away and the house was up for sale. Then they got hit with heavy rain and mudslides. Not so good for the sale price.

The difference now is that the fires are just more intense.

[Rooster]

So lemme get this straight. If AGW is real, that produces more rain

You’re a fucking iodot.

So lemme get this straight. If AGW is real, that produces more rain, which in turn produces more vegetation, which then becomes fuel for wildfires. If AGW is a figment of an environmentalist’s fevered imagination, then the droughts in California produce more dry woods, which in turn catch fire.

Do I have that right?

No you don’t. Like Mikey said, you are and iodiot.

Obviously neither of you didn’t read the 538 article closely. It specifically says climate change (AGW) will bring more rain... idiots.

[Kierland]

Are you stupid or something? Can you not read that there was more than “it rains more” in your original post?
It’s like working with 2nd graders.

[Mikey]

More rain in a lot of places where they don’t need or want it, less rain in a lot of places where it is needed.

But of course that level of abstraction is miles beyond Rooster’s limited capacity.

[Mikey]

OK I take back everything I’ve written on this up until now. I just learned the real truth and you’re all going to be blown away. It’s not climate change. It’s not dry conditions or forest mismanagement. It’s Directed Energy Weapons.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/californias ... 1830418656

Rooster - your thoughts?

[Mikey]

[Mikey]

Apparently they were used in last year’s fires too. Makes sense.

https://www.google.com/search?client=sa ... 67&bih=375

[Derron]

You need to stop posting jerk material for poptart and LetsTurd. This kind of stimuli will blow their fucking minds. They dig that computer voice shit big time.

[Mikey]

What...you’re not convinced?

[Rooster]

OK I take back everything I’ve written on this up until now. I just learned the real truth and you’re all going to be blown away. It’s not climate change. It’s not dry conditions or forest mismanagement. It’s Directed Energy Weapons.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/californias ... 1830418656

Rooster - your thoughts?

My thoughts are you are a rube and an idiot. Obviously, that is not a directed energy weapon as evidenced by the wavering beam. The correct answer is that is one of the Ghostbusters operating solo.

[Goober McTuber]

What most people (including our President) probably don’t know is that 60% of the forest land in CA owned by the Federal Government. 37% is private and 3% state. The Trump administration already cut several hundred million $$ from the National Forest Service. So, if there’s a lack of preparation, whose fault is that?

Obviously it's Obama's fault.

[Goober McTuber]

I stopped heating my house with coal.

[Mikey]

Solar panels
Plug-in hybrid
Storage battery
Solar pool heater
Variable speed drive pool pump
LED lights
Car pool to work with my son
Work for a company that not only promotes energy efficiency, but is a general contractor installing energy saving industrial technologies.
Support candidates who have the mental capacity to understand the issue, and don't bury their head in the sand claiming shit that they don't get to be fairy tales.

What about you? Burn off your farts for shits and giggles before they reach the upper atmosphere?

[Smackie Chan]

What about you? Burn off your farts for shits and giggles before they reach the upper atmosphere?

Nah, prolly just to replace incense.

[Mikey]

I was thinking of the Vonnegut quote about biting farts in the bathtub, but figured that lighting them was probably more energy efficient.

[Derron]

Typical T1B thread. Start one direction and make a couple of 360 turns and a hijack or two.

Those poor fucks down there at the Camp Fire now have flash flood warnings. Because of Global warming you know.

[Derron]

Solar panels
Plug-in hybrid
Storage battery
Solar pool heater
Variable speed drive pool pump
LED lights
Car pool to work with my son
Work for a company that not only promotes energy efficiency, but is a general contractor installing energy saving industrial technologies.
Support candidates who have the mental capacity to understand the issue, and don't bury their head in the sand claiming shit that they don't get to be fairy tales.

What about you? Burn off your farts for shits and giggles before they reach the upper atmosphere?

Well fuck yeah. How more green can you get ?? Any of you others post your pedigree and top that shit ?

All bullshit aside, that is pretty good. Get into battery disposal and recycling and the vertical integration is done.

[Mikey]

Work for a company that not only promotes energy efficiency, but is a general contractor installing energy saving industrial technologies.

So there'd be no reason for you to push your fairytale agenda on anybody.

So the more the fake alarmist bullshit is pushed, the safer your company is. It's really that simple.

Dumbass. Our customers do business with us for one reason - because we save them money.

Seriously, do the world a favor an off yourself tonight.

[Mikey]

Solar panels
Plug-in hybrid
Storage battery
Solar pool heater
Variable speed drive pool pump
LED lights
Car pool to work with my son
Work for a company that not only promotes energy efficiency, but is a general contractor installing energy saving industrial technologies.
Support candidates who have the mental capacity to understand the issue, and don't bury their head in the sand claiming shit that they don't get to be fairy tales.

What about you? Burn off your farts for shits and giggles before they reach the upper atmosphere?

Well fuck yeah. How more green can you get ?? Any of you others post your pedigree and top that shit ?

All bullshit aside, that is pretty good. Get into battery disposal and recycling and the vertical integration is done.

If more people would get over their petty political bullshit they'd realize that every one of those measures is saving me $$ in the long run. Well except for maybe the last one.

[Mikey]

Typical T1B thread. Start one direction and make a couple of 360 turns and a hijack or two.

Those poor fucks down there at the Camp Fire now have flash flood warnings. Because of Global warming you know.

Fire and then debris flows is the normal cycle for this.

Santa Barbara in 2017 for the most extreme recent example.

Malibu in 1993 was a good one too.

[Mikey]

[Mikey]

Melty Meltifies

[smackaholic]

Solar panels
Plug-in hybrid
Storage battery
Solar pool heater
Variable speed drive pool pump
LED lights
Car pool to work with my son
Work for a company that not only promotes energy efficiency, but is a general contractor installing energy saving industrial technologies.
Support candidates who have the mental capacity to understand the issue, and don't bury their head in the sand claiming shit that they don't get to be fairy tales.

What about you? Burn off your farts for shits and giggles before they reach the upper atmosphere?

Well fuck yeah. How more green can you get ?? Any of you others post your pedigree and top that shit ?

All bullshit aside, that is pretty good. Get into battery disposal and recycling and the vertical integration is done.

If more people would get over their petty political bullshit they'd realize that every one of those measures is saving me $$ in the long run. Well except for maybe the last one.

Assuming this all just boils down to saving you money, it should not require subsidies/tax credits.

I mean, you do wanna pay your “fair share”, right?


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[Carson]

That dude should not have looked into the Ark.

[Mikey]

[Mikey]

All bullshit aside, that is pretty good. Get into battery disposal and recycling and the vertical integration is done.

I expect to see them start repurposing old EV batteries for stationary storage. Their efficiency will last a long time but they start losing their charge density. Not as important when it’s in a big box in your garage as it is when you have to fit it in a car and carry it around.

[smackaholic]

repurposing tired Li-Ion batteries for stationary use actually might make sense. Building brand new stationary storage from new ones, I kinda doubt.

What is the degradation of such batteries like though? Don't they kinda go to shit rather quickly, or can they be coaxed along for reasonable use, assuming they aren't deep cycled? I still think that gravity storage is a better alternative simply because once you build it, it can last for a very long time.

[Mikey]

Gravity storage takes a lot more space. You can't just put one in your garage. Plus you need all the mechanical components to turn that potential energy into electricity and back again.

I'm actually a little disappointed in the performance of battery in my Fusion. It seems to have lost maybe 20% of its capacity in 2 1/2 years, 38,000 miles. I'm finding also that the 8 year 100,000 mile warranty doesn't cover degradation (considered wear and tear) but only complete failure of the system.

Check out this link:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest ... ore-energy

There's an equation there, which seems correct.

E = mgh = 100kg⋅9.8m/s2⋅10m=9.8kJ≈2.7Wh

This says that if you have a 100 kg weight (220 lb) and raise it 10 meters (about 33 feet) you have a potential energy of 2.7 Wh (watt-hours), which doesn't account for the efficiency of any of the conversion devices like the generator.

For comparison, a single AA-sized battery stores about 2Wh of energy.

My car battery, which is small for an EV, started out with a capacity of about 5.4 kWh, which is 2000 times the capacity of the 10 kg, 10 meter system. My storage battery (which hasn't been fully commissioned yet because they're waiting on a part :brad: ) has an 8 kWh capacity and is about the size of a small refrigerator. You would have to raise a mass of about 660,000 lb 33 feet in the air to get that kind of storage.

[smackaholic]

Gravity storage takes a lot more space. You can't just put one in your garage. Plus you need all the mechanical components to turn that potential energy into electricity and back again.

I'm actually a little disappointed in the performance of battery in my Fusion. It seems to have lost maybe 20% of its capacity in 2 1/2 years, 38,000 miles. I'm finding also that the 8 year 100,000 mile warranty doesn't cover degradation (considered wear and tear) but only complete failure of the system.

Check out this link:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest ... ore-energy

There's an equation there, which seems correct.

E = mgh = 100kg⋅9.8m/s2⋅10m=9.8kJ≈2.7Wh

This says that if you have a 100 kg weight (220 lb) and raise it 10 meters (about 33 feet) you have a potential energy of 2.7 Wh (watt-hours), which doesn't account for the efficiency of any of the conversion devices like the generator.

For comparison, a single AA-sized battery stores about 2Wh of energy.

My car battery, which is small for an EV, started out with a capacity of about 5.4 kWh, which is 2000 times the capacity of the 10 kg, 10 meter system. My storage battery (which hasn't been fully commissioned yet because they're waiting on a part :brad: ) has an 8 kWh capacity and is about the size of a small refrigerator. You would have to raise a mass of about 660,000 lb 33 feet in the air to get that kind of storage.

Gravity systems definitely take up some space and initial cost is high. Their advantage is ZERO degradation, other than occasional maintenance of mechanical parts.

I saw something on line that used holes dug in the ground that actually solves some of the space issue. But it could be very expensive dependending on location. Also, not sure if it would work in sisemically active areas.


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[Kierland]

You would have to raise a mass of about 660,000 lb 33 feet in the air to get that kind of storage.

Doesn’t the drop height depend on the downward gearing?

[Mikey]

You would have to raise a mass of about 660,000 lb 33 feet in the air to get that kind of storage.

Doesn’t the drop height depend on the downward gearing?

The stored energy due to gravity (in physical terms, the change in potential energy in raising an object from one height to another) is solely a function of the mass of the object and the vertical distance the object has moved (also the distance from the center of the earth, but that's beyond this discussion). You're probably thinking of the vertical force required to move the object, and the torque (which is the force multiplied by the distance from the center of a rotational force) required to produce that force.

Think of it this way (or not).

work = force x distance. Work has the same units as energy and is equivalent to the change in potential energy when moving the object from one height to another.
force = mass x acceleration (the mass of the object and the acceleration due to gravity)

It takes a certain amount of force to get that object moving upward (acceleration). Once it's moving you only have to apply enough force to counteract the gravitational force to keep it moving.

When you add a rotational component it complicates the basic theory in a couple of ways.

With gears you're basically spreading out the work over a longer distance. If you have a 10/1 gear ratio you're essentially increasing the distance over which you're applying the force by a factor of 10, so the the amount of force needed to accomplish the work is reduced by a factor of 10. This is a simplified explanation because it leaves out the effect of torque. Torque is the effect of applying the force at a distance from the center of the gear, vs at the shaft. As you move the place you apply the force away from the center of the gear, you torque is multiplied by that distance.

Long story short - the stored energy is the same no matter how you got it there. The force required to move the object depends on how you did it.

[Kierland]

Upon further review I was conflating flywheels and gravity storage.

Gravity seems to work best with water but you need the fall and the space. Would a hybrid thermal/gravity work if you could heat the substance you were raising? Add a flywheel in the basement and that is a lot of energy.

[smackaholic]

Water gravity storage works well on large scale applications. Of course it does require 2 bodies of water and a good bit of elevation change. There are other gravity systems being developed that are smaller. I saw one that used train cars loaded with rocks. It would be feasible where you might have a long slope. There are others that are more compact that use weights and pulleys.