Another Boeing 737 Max 8 crash

[Left Seater]

And yet, we haven’t grounded all the cars.

It is a political choice for society to tolerate 40,000 deaths annually to car crashes. We could reduce this figure, but we chose not to.

Yet in 2018 we had two incidents in the US and 2 death. In 2017 we had no deaths in the US. But you still want to ground this plane. Do you even remember the deaths last year? Hint one that f them was suicide.

[Left Seater]

Found this statement from the Deputy Director of Civil Aviation in China:

The biggest worry involves possibly inaccurate signals from key flight instruments. Many pilots with less experience depend heavily on automatic systems to help them fly planes.

Just as I said. Many pilots have lost their stick and rudder skills and can only fly as if it is a video game. Thankfully here in the states we actually require hand flown landings on a regular basis. But to many of the worlds pilots can’t turn off the automation and look out the widow and just fly. See the Asians crash at SFO a few years ago.

[Kierland]

Not sure how high of a bar that sets.

Seer checks in with a racist balst, but never forget: Democrats are the REAL racists.

Goodness, what a Virtue Signaler you are.

So, if I make a claim that Ethiopia doesn't have the same quality of health care, nor the adherence to human rights that the USA has, does that make me "racist

I don’t know, but it makes you an idiot for comparing two dissimilar things.

[Kierland]

40,000 people die in car crashes annually

And yet, we haven’t grounded all the cars.

You are both a big dummy and a horrible comedian.

[Kierland]

40,000 people die in car crashes annually

And yet, we haven’t grounded all the cars...

.....or prohibited phones in automobiles. I'm sure distracted or drunk drivers account for most of those killed.

And you will be right back with some evidence.

[Screw_Michigan]

Canada is now banning Max 8s from its skies. So it's basically going to come down to this: The US is smarter than every other country in the world. Right?

[Screw_Michigan]

Norwegian Air CEO: Boeing owes us for lost flight times.

[FiatLux]

TRUMPalmighty

[Dinsdale]

car-related violence

Besides the miserable tard in Charlottesville, care to cite another instance? Since it's at a "high level," you shouldn't struggle with this, right?

40,000 people die in car crashes annually

And there's a reason we refer to them as "accidents."

Yet another example of your Newspeak. This board works better if we all agree to speak English -- you should agree to it, as well.

[Screw_Michigan]

And there's a reason we refer to them as "accidents."

I laffed

[Dinsdale]

And there's a reason we refer to them as "accidents."

I laffed

I don't get the joke. What does "accident" mean in Newspeak?

[Screw_Michigan]

We'll know soon enough.

As in if the aircraft doesn't crash, it means the US is smarter than everyone else? Terrible logic.

[Screw_Michigan]

I don't get the joke. What does "accident" mean in Newspeak?

Most car crashes are not truly accidents. Tell me you knew.

[Dinsdale]

Most people get in a car accident intentionally?

[Screw_Michigan]

Most people get in a car accident intentionally?

Most are not truly accidents, you intellectually and morally obtuse dipshit.

[Dinsdale]

Newspeak.

[Screw_Michigan]

Newspeak.

Stick to slopping water treatment facilities for a living.

Oh, and suck on this----FAA grounds Boeing 737 Max.

[Left Seater]

So let’s ignore logic and the statistics of safely operated flights here in the states and instead operate on emotion.

How liberal of you Trump. You screwed this up.

[Mikey]

Bought a small amount of Boeing stock this morning. It was at $446 at the beginning of the month and has dropped to $372 today, about 17% off from its peak. Seems like a pretty good opportunity.

[Screw_Michigan]

So let’s ignore logic and the statistics of safely operated flights here in the states and instead operate on emotion.

How liberal of you Trump. You screwed this up.

Why do you care? Really. Do you have a financial stake in this? Fine and understandable if you do. Just admit it, if so.

[Left Seater]

Nope no airline or Boeing stock. Further I don’t fly for Netjets or any of those open to public booking so none of this will effect me.

I just see this as an emotional response. Plenty of Congressional types making statements saying the grounding is justified, but can’t express why a grounding is warranted when pressed on follow up.

So you got your grounding Screwy, but what do you do about the fallout? Should American, Southwest and United get to defer loan payments on these planes while they are grounded? If so what, relief do the banks get? What about your grandmother’s trip to Hawaii that isn’t going to happen now? Any relief for her? What about all the lost wages for flight attendants who now have more employees than the schedule calls for? You were up in arms about lost wages during the government shutdown, what say you here?

Finally and most likely, what happens if after the crash investigations it is found the plane had no issues and training or maintenance is at fault? How do you compensate the airlines for their loss or Boeing for their reputation hit?

Please fill us in on these things. Your emotion won out, now you have to deal with the consequences.

[Derron]

Bought a small amount of Boeing stock this morning. It was at $446 at the beginning of the month and has dropped to $372 today, about 17% off from its peak. Seems like a pretty good opportunity.

Very good opportunity. I had $ 3,000 cash in a stock account laying around so figured I cannot get hurt much there. This "issue" is nothing over the long term. Just media hype fueling the citizens need for corporate blood in the gutters. I have some other Boeing in an IRA, but it was the wife's inherited from her step father and the basis is over 25 years old.

[Derron]

Bought a small amount of Boeing stock this morning. It was at $446 at the beginning of the month and has dropped to $372 today, about 17% off from its peak. Seems like a pretty good opportunity.

Very good opportunity. I had $ 3,000 cash in a stock account laying around so figured I cannot get hurt much there. This "issue" is nothing over the long term. Just media hype fueling the citizens need for corporate blood in the gutters. Sup Screwed in the Ass ??? I have some other Boeing in an IRA, but it was the wife's inherited from her step father and the basis is over 25 years old.

[Kierland]

And there's a reason we refer to them as "accidents."

Yet another example of your Newspeak. This board works better if we all agree to speak English -- you should agree to it, as well.

Who the fuck are “we?” Those of us that deal with them everyday call them traffic collisions. You really are an idiot.

[Screw_Michigan]

Lol, "Let's just wait...we're smarter than everyone else!"

At tense meeting with Boeing executives, pilots fumed about being left in dark on plane software

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... fef88acb7a

Boeing executives sat down last November with pilots at the Allied Pilots Association’s low-slung brick headquarters in Fort Worth.

Tensions were running high. One of Boeing’s new jets — hailed by the company as an even more reliable version of Boeing’s stalwart 737 — had crashed into the ocean off Indonesia shortly after takeoff, killing all 189 people on board the flight operated by Lion Air.

After the crash, Boeing issued a bulletin disclosing that this line of planes, known as the 737 Max 8, was equipped with a new type of software as part of the plane’s automated functions. Some pilots were furious that they were not told about the new software when the plane was unveiled.

Dennis Tajer, a 737 captain who attended the meeting with Boeing executives, recalled, “They said, ‘Look, we didn’t include it because we have a lot of people flying on this and we didn’t want to inundate you with information.’ ”

“I’m certain I did say, ‘Well that’s not acceptable,’ ” said Tajer, a leader in the association representing American Airlines pilots.

A Boeing spokesman said the company disputes that any of its executives made that statement.

[Screw_Michigan]

Nope no airline or Boeing stock. Further I don’t fly for Netjets or any of those open to public booking so none of this will effect me.

I just see this as an emotional response. Plenty of Congressional types making statements saying the grounding is justified, but can’t express why a grounding is warranted when pressed on follow up.

It's not an emotional response. It's a common sense response. Everyone with half a brain immediately connected the dots after the Ethiopia crash. I know it's matter of philosophy but the US should not be prioritizing dollars over lives in commercial aviation.

So you got your grounding Screwy, but what do you do about the fallout? Should American, Southwest and United get to defer loan payments on these planes while they are grounded? If so what, relief do the banks get? What about your grandmother’s trip to Hawaii that isn’t going to happen now? Any relief for her? What about all the lost wages for flight attendants who now have more employees than the schedule calls for? You were up in arms about lost wages during the government shutdown, what say you here?

I don't care about any of that. They'll live, they'll deal, and most importantly, we finally prioritized safety over profits and we're in the process of hopefully getting to the bottom of this and making sure the Max aircraft get this issue resolved.

Finally and most likely, what happens if after the crash investigations it is found the plane had no issues and training or maintenance is at fault? How do you compensate the airlines for their loss or Boeing for their reputation hit?

Please fill us in on these things. Your emotion won out, now you have to deal with the consequences.

Poor Boeing, won't someone think of Boeing? I'm also confident the investigation will show that the plane had issues and that training and maintenance will not be at fault. Which is also why we need other nations than the US to be involved with the investigation as it has been proven that the US puts corporate profits over safety and will bend to Boeing's wishes.

[Left Seater]

What are the Max’s issues? You keep running that line out there. Do you know something the rest of us don’t?

Care to fill us in on Ethiopians training for pilots? If this isn’t an emotional response then tell us why this plane needed to be grounded yesterday.

As for me until one of these lawn darts in the US flown by US aircrews I have few worries about the airframe.

[Mikey]

40,000 people die in car crashes annually

And yet, we haven’t grounded all the cars.

How many flying cars have you seen lately?

[Kierland]

What are the Max’s issues?

It makes a better bus than it does a plane.

[Screw_Michigan]

What are the Max’s issues?

For starters, it has crashed twice in five months. What else do you need?

[Left Seater]

Facts for starters.

Two Bombardier Q-400s crashed 5 months apart last year. Where was your call to ground those?

Two ATRs crashed two months apart at the end of 2017/beginning of 2018. Where were you on that grounding call?

You have nothing but emotion to back this up. But an even more important question is what is it going to take to lift this grounding? What if Boeing comes back and says nothing is wrong with the plane?

[Screw_Michigan]

Fair takes. I will reply later with more details.

Did you even read the Post story I linked?

[Kierland]

One day they will make a car that your fat ass can drive. Dream big!

[Kierland]

See you in May.

[Left Seater]

Fair takes. I will reply later with more details.

Did you even read the Post story I linked?

I did. It talked mainly about automation in the MCAS system. This supports my thought that hand flying skills are being lost. If the chips are down kick off all the automation and fly the plane. This has always been an option and continues to be.

[Dinsdale]

How many flying cars have you seen lately?

Not sure what kind of software it had to fly itself, though.

[Left Seater]

Still waiting on your take Screwy on what Boeing needs to do to get this aircraft back in the air?

Do they need to wait for the final accident reports which might be well over a year? Change a line of code?

All indications from the Lion Air crash are pointing to maintenance errors. So how does that play into getting this type back to flying?

[Left Seater]

Hey Screwy,

Fair takes. I will reply later with more details.

Still waiting for your take on this. You do know that Lion Air passed on maintenance on their aircraft, right? On multiple flights before this one that crashed they passed on fixing or replacing one of the angle of attack sensors. This caused a large disconnect between the two sensors. On the flight before the crash, the pilots reported the issue and they kick out the automation of the stabilizer control and hand flew the plane with no issues. Yet Lion Air dispatched the plane with this know issue.

So how does that tie into this crash in Africa? What does Boeing need to do to get the grounding lifted? How long should it be grounded? But most imporantly what happens if this turns out to be another maintenance or pilot issue?

[Screw_Michigan]

We should ground the aircraft until the German investigation results are in.

Hey, look at this! "Shitty maintenance. --Left Shitter"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... er-crashed

Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 Day Before Deadly Crash

As the Lion Air crew fought to control their diving Boeing Co. 737 Max 8, they got help from an unexpected source: an off-duty pilot who happened to be riding in the cockpit.

That extra pilot, who was seated in the cockpit jumpseat, correctly diagnosed the problem and told the crew how to disable a malfunctioning flight-control system and save the plane, according to two people familiar with Indonesia’s investigation.

The next day, under command of a different crew facing what investigators said was an identical malfunction, the jetliner crashed into the Java Sea killing all 189 aboard.

The previously undisclosed detail on the earlier Lion Air flight represents a new clue in the mystery of how some 737 Max pilots faced with the malfunction have been able to avert disaster while the others lost control of their planes and crashed. The presence of a third pilot in the cockpit wasn’t contained in Indonesia’s National Transportation Safety Committee’s Nov. 28 report on the crash and hasn’t previously been reported.

The so-called dead-head pilot on the earlier flight from Bali to Jakarta told the crew to cut power to the motor driving the nose down, according to the people familiar, part of a checklist that all pilots are required to memorize.

“All the data and information that we have on the flight and the aircraft have been submitted to the Indonesian NTSC. We can’t provide additional comment at this stage due the ongoing investigation on the accident,” Lion Air spokesman Danang Prihantoro said by phone.

The Indonesia safety committee report said the plane had had multiple failures on previous flights and hadn’t been properly repaired.

Representatives for Boeing and the Indonesian safety committee declined to comment on the earlier flight. Boeing shares were unchanged at $374.57 in pre-market trading Wednesday in New York.

[Screw_Michigan]

Oh, there's a CRIMINAL investigation into how the Max 8 was certified? You don't say.

"We can trust Boeing to self-certify their own aircraft. --Left Shitter"

Steve Miletich By Steve Miletich
Seattle Times staff reporter
The FBI has joined the criminal investigation into the certification of the Boeing 737 MAX, lending its considerable resources to an inquiry already being conducted by U.S. Department of Transportation agents, according to people familiar with the matter.

The federal grand jury investigation, based in Washington, D.C., is looking into the certification process that approved the safety of the new Boeing plane, two of which have crashed since October.

The FBI’s Seattle field office lies in proximity to Boeing’s 737 manufacturing plant in Renton, as well as nearby offices of Boeing and Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) officials involved in the certification of the plane.

The investigation, which is being overseen by the U.S. Justice Department’s criminal division and carried out by the Transportation Department’s Inspector General, began in response to information obtained after a Lion Air 737 MAX 8 crashed shortly after takeoff from Jakarta on Oct. 29, killing 189 people, Bloomberg reported earlier this week, citing an unnamed source.

It has widened since then, with the grand jury issuing a subpoena on March 11 for information from someone involved in the plane’s development, one day after the crash of an Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX 8 near Addis Ababa that killed 157 people, The Associated Press reported this week.

The FBI’s support role was described by people on condition of anonymity because of the confidential nature of the investigation.