Electric cars...

[Derron]

The local transit Nazis here just rolled out their first new electric bus. It will go a whole 80 miles on a charge and then have to sit from 4 to 8 hours to recharge. Sounds real efficient to me. They will probably increase the employers payroll taxes that pay for this debacle to help pay for these inefficient pieces of shit.

https://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/20 ... -goal.html

[Screw_Michigan]

#bancars

#banelectricvehiclestoo

[Left Seater]

Hybrids make sense. 100% electric not so much at this point.

[smackaholic]

EVs do make sense as short range commuters/grocery getters. They make no sense for anything that needs to travel much distance between charges.

I could see a bus making sense if it could do very quick charges at short intervals, as buses typically have have breaks between routes anyway.

Probably makes more sense to make it a hybrid. Smaller battery and onboard diesel generator.


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[smackaholic]

Being the greenie that I am, I just bought a VW TDI Jetta Sportwagen. It is one of the emissions scofflaws that have recently been paroled by the EPA. I have always liked them and was considering buying a new one when dieselgate hit.

VW is giving an extensive warranty that covers pretty much the entire engine for a long time.

Anyone that does at least 30K a year of mostly highway driving would be wise to give these a look. I wanted the 6 speed manual, but if you prefer the DSG tranny, there are tons of them out there at great prices. If you buy VW CPO cars, you get a 2 year unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty on TDIs.

[Kierland]

My volt runs on the solar from the roof. Costs me nothing to charge. G35 in garage for long trips.
#88Brokenidiots

[Mikey]

According to the study directed by Christoph Buchal of the University of Cologne, published by the Ifo Institute in Munich last week, electric vehicles have "significantly higher CO2 emissions than diesel cars."

So I guess we should be driving German diesel cars instead.

Oh wait...

15 Apr 2019, 16:00
"Dieselgate" - a timeline of Germany's car emissions fraud scandal
As more and more countries around the globe announce concrete goals to phase out internal combustion engines in passenger cars, the automobile's birthplace Germany is embroiled in an affair over exhaust emissions manipulation in diesel cars. The "dieselgate" scandal started out as seemingly only encompassing the country's largest car company Volkswagen - but since it broke in September 2015, almost all major German carmakers have become implicated. [UPDATES Ex-VW CEO Winterkorn indicted; authorities probe Daimler for further fraud software use]

Ex-VW CEO charged over Dieselgate, faces millions in fines and 10 years in prison

Martin Winterkorn charged with fraud in Germany
Apr 16, 2019, 4:06am EDT

[Mikey]

This so-called "journalism" is so full of holes you could drain a pot of spaetzle through it.

[Screw_Michigan]

This so-called "journalism" is so full of holes you could drain a pot of spaetzle through it.

It's Melty. What did you expect?

[smackaholic]

According to the study directed by Christoph Buchal of the University of Cologne, published by the Ifo Institute in Munich last week, electric vehicles have "significantly higher CO2 emissions than diesel cars."

So I guess we should be driving German diesel cars instead.

Oh wait...

15 Apr 2019, 16:00
"Dieselgate" - a timeline of Germany's car emissions fraud scandal
As more and more countries around the globe announce concrete goals to phase out internal combustion engines in passenger cars, the automobile's birthplace Germany is embroiled in an affair over exhaust emissions manipulation in diesel cars. The "dieselgate" scandal started out as seemingly only encompassing the country's largest car company Volkswagen - but since it broke in September 2015, almost all major German carmakers have become implicated. [UPDATES Ex-VW CEO Winterkorn indicted; authorities probe Daimler for further fraud software use]

Ex-VW CEO charged over Dieselgate, faces millions in fines and 10 years in prison

Martin Winterkorn charged with fraud in Germany
Apr 16, 2019, 4:06am EDT

The entire dieselgate fiasco was unfortunate. And the worst thing is, VW wasn't gaining much. "Fixed" cars can expect to get maybe 49mpg on the highway where the same car in cheater tune might have gotten 51. The biggest difference was with the newest models which require DEF. In cheat tune they could go the 10K between scheduled service on a single tank. Now they'll need refilling at something around 6-7K miles. BFD.

As for diesels going away any time soon, I wouldn't count on it.

They are still the best way to propel vehicles long distances, especially big ones. Some say that VW has given up on them, but I have read that that may not be the case. And you may see diesel hybrids from them soon.

Straight EVs are the inevitable future, as soon as someone figures out how to make an affordable eco-friendly battery. Li-Ion ain't it.

[Mikey]

The lease on my Fusion Energi runs out in July and I'm probably going to move to a Hyundai Kona EV, which is a small all-electric crossover that has a 250 mile range.

https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/kona-electric

I think they're only available in CA right now but will be going nationwide at some point. We have a new TOU electric tariff meant for EVs that has a "super off-peak" rate (from midnight until 6:00 am) of $0.07/kWh. Depending on your assumptions of your EV efficiency (mi/kWh) and gas engine efficiency (mpg) - I assumed about 45 mpg - that's equivalent to something like $0.90/gal.

[smackaholic]

Too bad you can't charge it with your PV array like some folks do....allegedly. But most of us have yobs we need to be at when the sun shines.

[Left Seater]

As I have long said, battery tech needs significant gains before we can start getting rid of fossil fuels.

100% EVs make sense in some instances. Mikey is one person where it works. However he also has a 2nd vehicle for when it don’t. Mix in a climate where AC or heater use is necessary and range can drop significantly. Add in defrosting the windshield and it can be a non starter.

Mix in a commute from Chicago to one of the outer suburbs in a snow storm and the EV may not make it home.

[Mikey]

Too bad you can't charge it with your PV array like some folks do....allegedly. But most of us have yobs we need to be at when the sun shines.

It essentially is charged from my PV array, if indirectly. When my system produces more than I use (during most of the time the sun is out) the electrons get fed back into the grid. When I'm using more than I produce, I get electrons back from the grid. I then get charged for the net usage (this is called net metering). My system produces probably 90% of what I use during the spring and fall, 65% in the summer (when the AC runs) and 75% in the winter when the sun doesn't shine so much. It wouldn't make sense to produce more than you use because what you get reimbursed for over-production at the end of the month is a lot less than the credit you get for what you actually use.

In my old rate structure (which ended yesterday) I was on a tiered rate. About $0.20/kWh for the first tier (about 300 kWh per month), $0.28 for the second tier, something like $0.40 for tier 3 and $0.45 for tier 4. I rarely exceeded tier 1. It's the high tiers that make the PV economical. The payback are the tier 1 rate is not so good, so the strategy is to stay in tier 1 but not over produce.

I've now switched to a TOU (time of use) rate. $0.23/kWh is the basic rate. During the summer peak (which is now 4 pm until 9 pm on weekdays June through September) it jumps to $0.53 , but I have a super off-peak rate of $0.07 from midnight until 6 am. The whole strategy now is to shift as much usage to the super off-peak period when the rate is so low. So If I charge my car and run my pool pump during that period it's really cheap. Then, when I over-produce during the day I get $0.23 credit and that gets applied to the small amount I'll be using during the $0.53 period. With the storage battery, that should be coming online soon, I have 8 kWh of storage that I can use to, hopefully, shift everything out of the peak period.

We will see how all this works out when it's all up and running.

[Mikey]

This so-called "journalism" is so full of holes you could drain a pot of spaetzle through it.

Why not make adjustments to it? Be sure, however, you DO factor in the environmental costs of what they're speaking about.

GO!

Hard to make adjustments here, because they throw out a lot of numbers that amount pretty much to technical gobbledegook with nothing to back it up. And the author doesn't mention anything about the environmental costs of his favored alternatives. Probably impressive to the gullible who have no understanding of the subject, though. I'd like to see the actual data and how they came up with their conclusions.

The Brussel Times reports that a new German study exposes how electric vehicles will hardly decrease CO2 emissions in Europe over the coming years, as the introduction of electric vehicles won't lead to a reduction in CO2 emissions from highway traffic.

According to the study directed by Christoph Buchal of the University of Cologne, published by the Ifo Institute in Munich last week, electric vehicles have "significantly higher CO2 emissions than diesel cars." That is due to the significant amount of energy used in the mining and processing of lithium, cobalt, and manganese, which are critical raw materials for the production of electric car batteries.

A battery pack for a Tesla Model 3 pollutes the climate with 11 to 15 tonnes of CO2. Each battery pack has a lifespan of approximately ten years and total mileage of 94,000, would mean 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometer (116 to 156 grams of CO2 per mile), Buchal said. Add to this the CO2 emissions of the electricity from powerplants that power such vehicles, and the actual Tesla emissions could be between 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometer (249 and 289 grams of CO2 per mile).

Pretty impressive, except for one thing - they conveniently left out the values for internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles running on either gasoline or diesel. So, what are they comparing with? Did they include the energy used and emissions created in the exploration and extraction of fossil fuels in their analysis? Can't tell because they don't provide anything.

German researchers criticized the fact that EU legislation classifies electric cars as zero-emission cars; they call it a deception because electric cars, like the Model 3, with all the factors, included, produce more emissions than diesel vehicles by Mercedes.

I'll have to give them (part of) this. EVs are zero-emission at the point of use, but not if you follow it back to the original energy source, unless the fuel is completely renewable. Even then...nothing in this world that's manufactured is 100% zero-emission.

The claim is that EVs produce more emissions than a diesel Mercedes. Again, where are the numbers?

They further wrote that the EU target of 59 grams of CO2 per kilometer by 2030 is "technically unrealistic."

Why?

The reality is, in addition to the CO2 emissions generated in mining the raw materials for the production of electric vehicles, all EU countries generate significant CO2 emissions from charging the vehicles’ batteries using dirty power plants.

This was written with the EU in mind, with their "dirty power plants." How dirty are they? It's probably a lot different in the US and especially in California. What's the marginal efficiency of electrical generation in the EU vs in the US (or CA)?

It's illegal to run a diesel generator in California except for emergency backup, and periodic testing of emergency units. A combined cycle gas turbine has a thermal efficiency (Btu -> kWh) of over 60% when running fully loaded. Diesel generation, about 35%. Plus diesel is a lot dirtier in terms of particulates, sulfur and a lot of other pollutants.

For true emission reductions, researchers concluded the study by saying methane-powered gasoline engines or hydrogen motors could cut CO2 emissions by a third and possibly eliminate the need for diesel motors.

"Methane technology is ideal for the transition from natural gas vehicles with conventional engines to engines that will one day run on methane from CO2-free energy sources. This being the case, the German federal government should treat all technologies equally and promote hydrogen and methane solutions as well."

This last section proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that whoever wrote this a fucking idiot and / or just writing a completely misinformed hack job meant to impress like-thinking gullible white trash.

• There's no such thing as a "methane-powered gasoline engine." Gasoline engines are powered by gasoline. Yes, there are methane-powered IC engines, but they aren't methane-powered gasoline engines. You can convert a gasoline engine to run on methane.There are even engines that can run on either / or. But "methane powered gasoline engines?" Give me a break. Anybody who knows their ass from a cow fart would realize this.

• Burning methane (natural gas is about 93% methane) produces CO2. There's no such thing as "CO2-free" methane. I suppose of you used renewable methane (land fill gas, digester gas from wastewater plants, cow farts) it could possibly be considered CO2-free because it's then not a fossil fuel and not contributing to the net carbon burden. But you'd have to collect a lot of cow farts to power any significant number of vehicles.

• Hydrogen is not a fuel. It's an energy storage medium. Nothing more. You can't mine or drill for hydrogen. The only feasible ways of producing hydrogen are (1) from water using hydrogen electrolysis and (2) from natural gas by reformation.

• Hydrogen electrolysis requires electricity - a lot of electricity. If you have solar arrays, wind turbines or some kind of tidal generator out on the ocean, you could produce hydrogen, compress it, ship it to land and use it in a "hydrogen" car. But a hydrogen car is just an electric car that uses on on-board fuel cell to produce electricity from hydrogen. So, you see, the hydrogen is just a storage medium to ship electricity from one place to another. And you lose probably 50% of the original electricity in the process of converting to hydrogen and then back to electricity. So, unless you have to move it really long distances where you don't have wires, it's more efficient to just use a battery

• Hydrogen reformed from natural gas produces CO2. Just as much as burning the natural gas. So this is not a particularly clean technology. Cleaner than burning it in an IC engine, but not CO2-free.

So maybe Elon Musk's plan to save the world with electric cars is the biggest scam of our lifetime...

Maybe so... I'm not a big fan of Elon Musk, but this hack has produced absolutely nothing to back that up.

OK your turn.

[Derron]

Get your electric battery operated tin cans and your fairy German diesels the fuck out of the way of a real diesel.

Not my truck, mine is red and gray. Even for its size it gets 16 mpg on the road, and has a lower overall operating cost than my Ford Explorer, is comfortable and I will walk away from any collision short of a semi head on.

[Mikey]

This is what I drive to the hardware store, and to Southwest Boulder and Stone. Mine's the same color but has a shell on it and the paint is kind of oxidized. Bought it new in 1999 and thought about the diesel, but it was about a $5,000 premium. It still has enough torque to pull your house, though. The V10 gets about 13 mpg on the highway, or it did when it was new. Used to take it camping a lot when the boy was in the Scouts. It has the mountain and towing packages.

[Mikey]

And I drive it about twice a month when I need to haul stuff that won't fit in the car. It's 20 years old and has less than 80,000 miles on it.

You're just jealous because you're still driving the same 1997 Corolla you got to celebrate your GED.

[Goober McTuber]

G35 in garage for long trips.

I call bullshit. My wife has a G35. You couldn't reach the pedals.

[Goober McTuber]

You're just jealous because you're still driving the same 1997 Corolla you got to celebrate your GED.

I call more bullshit. No way Melty would fit in the driver's seat of a 1997 Corolla.

[Mikey]

And I drive it about twice a month when I need to haul stuff that won't fit in the car. It's 20 years old and has less than 80,000 miles on it.

You're just jealous because you're still driving the same 1997 Corolla you got to celebrate your GED.

Actually - I'm laughing at how much of a hypocrite you are. Don't mind me, man. I didn't post the picture!

Not sure why you find that hypocritical. More like practical. Where did I say that fossil fuel vehicles should never be used for any purpose?

But that's OK. You're widely known as not having a very good working knowledge of the English language.

I'm still waiting for you to refute any of the comments I made about your brilliant linked article, though not too surprised that you're only interested in deflecting.

[Screw_Michigan]

Almost embarrassed for Melty with the thorough ass kicking he just took from Mikey on electric vehicles. Almost.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I’m planning to buy an EV SUV in model year 2022.

I hope the software on that rig is more robust that T1B's...

:x

[Mikey]

I’m planning to buy an EV SUV in model year 2022.

I hope the software on that rig is more robust that T1B's...

:x

Not a particularly high bar.

[Screw_Michigan]

I’m planning to buy an EV SUV in model year 2022.

I hope the software on that rig is more robust that T1B's...

:x

Ice cold

[smackaholic]

Made my first work road trip in my kraut cheaterwagen.



This was on the mass pike where there are tons of tractor trailers to draft.
Probably averaged 68-70 mph. Last night I did about 100 miles on empty highway, cruise set at 75. That was good for about 42 mpg which is the epa highway number.

I ended the day with a 48 mpg average. I am very impressed with it so far. It is a really nice turnpike bomber.


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[Mikey]

That’s pretty impressive mpg. It’s about what the Fusion gets in hybrid mode (when the main battery is depleted).

[Kierland]

G35 in garage for long trips.

I call bullshit. My wife has a G35. You couldn't reach the pedals.

I didn’t know pickled amnesiacs were allowed to get married.

[Goober McTuber]

Are you kidding? They'll even let retards get married. Melty's been married at least twice, you drunken fucking midget. I bet Sirfuckafist even has a non-binary partner.

[Screw_Michigan]

So after your cripple fight with the midget, now you're trying suck his nublette again. Figures. It's what fags do, I guess...

You're on your second marriage?

[Kierland]

Are you kidding? They'll even let retards get married.

I can tell. Poor girl.

[Goober McTuber]

Are you kidding? They'll even let retards get married. Melty's been married at least twice, you drunken fucking midget. I bet Sirfuckafist even has a non-binary partner.

So after your cripple fight with the midget, now you're trying suck his nublette again. Figures. It's what fags do, I guess...

Calling him a drunken fucking midget is trying suck his nublette? You are a fat fucking mess.

[Goober McTuber]

Are you kidding? They'll even let retards get married.

I can tell. Poor girl.

IKHIBWAY? Way to up your game, short stuff.

[Kierland]

Just another thread where you are to pickled to get from point A to point B without tripping on your own leathery tongue.

[Goober McTuber]

I call two other posters retards. You're like no, you're a retard. Have another drink, shorty. It's almost 8 AM.

[Kierland]

It’s not my fault you are also a retard you retarded fuck.
Now go drink some gasoline, but don’t forget to note the nose and taste you pickled piece of road kill.

[Goober McTuber]

Then I guess it's not my fault that you're a pint-sized pinhead drunken retard either.

[Mikey]

I can see that you guys have really upped your Smack game with lots of fresh new material.

Keep up the good work.

[Goober McTuber]

I can see that you guys have really upped your Smack game with lots of fresh new material.

Keep up the good work.

Yeah, we can't all be smack giants like Mikey.

[Mikey]

I can see that you guys have really upped your Smack game with lots of fresh new material.

Keep up the good work.

Yeah, we can't all be smack giants like Mikey.

I'm glad you realize that, you senile drunken retard.