Your Favorite Eco-Nazi

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri May 24, 2019 5:44 pm

...has gone full electric.

The lease on the plug-in hybrid Fusion runs out at the end of June, and I'm already close to 10K miles over the limit so, instead of continuing to pay $0.20 per mile to drive that thing, I decided to go ahead an pull the trigger.

On Wednesday afternoon I leased a new Hyundai Kona EV. It's a small SUV crossover that's fully electric and has an estimated range of 250 to 280 miles on a full charge. After a day and a half of driving this vehicle, I'm fully sold and will never go back to driving gas or diesel engine car.

The prime mover is a 201 HP (291 lb-ft of torque) electric motor that can start this thing off like a rocket. The "official" 0-60 time is 7.6 seconds, but the first 40 or 50 are very quick given the instant torque of the motor, and the well-tuned CVT. And I think it's mainly limited by the low rolling resistance tires. I was entering a freeway this morning on a slightly downhill on-ramp, going about 30 mph, and wanted to pass somebody before the second lane ran out. I put it into "sport" mode, punched the accelerator, and immediately had to back off because the tires started to squeal.

Added to the ample power, several hundred pounds of battery distributed under the floor gives it a very low center of gravity, so it handles like a go-cart. It's so quiet they had to add an artificial sound at low (0 - 18 mph) speed so you don't sneak up on pedestrians.

Given all of that, a big selling point is fuel economy. We have a "super off-peak" EV electric rate here of $0.09/kWh from midnight until 6 am. on weekdays (midnight until 2 pm on weekends). Depending on the assumption you make (4 miles per kWh for the EV, 40 mpg for a gas engine car), that's equivalent to $0.90 per gallon of gas. I've been getting about 4.3 miles / kWh. Compared to a 30 mpg car that would be equivalent to $0.63 per gallon. No oil changes, no radiator, no air filter, no spark plugs. The only scheduled maintenance is basically a tire rotation every 5K miles.

A no brainer. Everybody needs one of these.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri May 24, 2019 6:11 pm

In three years my lease will be up and I'll be ready to jump on the next generation.

The MSRP is pretty steep on these, but with available tax credits and incentives it comes down considerably. The Hyundai has a $7500 federal tax credit that the dealer takes straight off the price for a lease. If you purchase you have to file for the credit yourself with your tax return. In CA we have an additional $2500 rebate for full electric vehicles. You apply for it yourself and get a check in about 6 weeks. So that's $10K (about 25%) off the MSRP.

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Fri May 24, 2019 10:48 pm

Hope you never have an accident sitting on all that sulfuric acid.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri May 24, 2019 11:01 pm

Wolfman wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 10:48 pm Hope you never have an accident sitting on all that sulfuric acid.

Yes. We know. You're a confused, "greatest generation" frump, living in a "world gone mad"...

Just gulp down your cat food and shut the fuck up, grandpa. The rest of us are busy undoing the shit bundle your era dumped on their kids and their kids.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri May 24, 2019 11:02 pm

Thanks for the debt, BTW.

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Fri May 24, 2019 11:40 pm

I think an acid may have done done something to your cerebral neurons.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat May 25, 2019 2:45 am

Pretty sure mikey is not storing his electrons with lead and acid. It is likely something else equally nasty though.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat May 25, 2019 2:49 am

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat May 25, 2019 3:11 am

Glad you like it, miguel.

Unfortunately, 280 miles ain't quite gonna cut it for me. Today I did about 230 or so and that's cutting it close. Last friday I went to BTV, 450+. But it obviously works for you and most people.

I think EVs will be as common as ICE cars within the next decade, maybe sooner and if we could just smarten up and invest in new breeder reactor technology, like others are doing, we would have dirt cheap electrons and everyone's EV could slurp them up overnight. Trouble with PV and wind, to a lesser extent is they don't do so good at 2AM. I am hoping we fix this soon. It will provide abundant power and it will solve the problem of what to do with the nasty nuke waste we been stockpiling for 60 years.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Sat May 25, 2019 3:28 pm

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 2:29 pm Nice. Now go out and drive across the country and tell us how the convenience factor is...

Who gives a shit? He could rent one for that.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat May 25, 2019 4:30 pm

Can you pick your fake sound track? I would go with late 60s hemi. Those things sound nasty. Or maybe an early 70s porsche flat 12 from the 917 LeMans car.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sat May 25, 2019 5:37 pm

What is the range if you had to run the heater and or a/c every day?

A full EV doesn’t make sense for me yet. Mountain driving and 4 wheel drive with the heater blasting. But if there were a hybrid option I would consider it.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat May 25, 2019 7:42 pm

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 2:29 pm Nice. Now go out and drive across the country and tell us how the convenience factor is...

The convenience factor is fine. I’ve never driven across the country and don’t plan to. If I did I wouldn’t drive a leased car. I’d probably rent one. There’s an Enterprise office a couple of miles from here.

Could you possibly be more obtuse? This is for my daily commute, which is 17 miles each way. If I drive 200 miles a week, I only need to charge it once a week, at home, overnight, at a cost of $0.09/kWh. That works out to $4.50 per week at 4 mi per KWh (I actually do a little better than that) for 200 mlles. How much do you pay for gas? Can you fill up at home while you sleep?

Just to help you out a little, because I know this is beyond your analytical capability, if you get 40 mpg and gas is $3.00/gal it’s going to cost you $15.00 in gas to drive 200 miles.

The convenience factor is pretty fucking awesome to tell you the truth.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat May 25, 2019 7:47 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 5:37 pm What is the range if you had to run the heater and or a/c every day?

A full EV doesn’t make sense for me yet. Mountain driving and 4 wheel drive with the heater blasting. But if there were a hybrid option I would consider it.

I’ve still got my V10 4x4 F250 crew cab for that. Not so much convenience factor there for a daily commute.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat May 25, 2019 8:16 pm

smackaholic wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 4:30 pm Can you pick your fake sound track? I would go with late 60s hemi. Those things sound nasty. Or maybe an early 70s porsche flat 12 from the 917 LeMans car.

Unfortunately, no.

It sounds a little like the very end of this, but barely audible.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Sun May 26, 2019 8:14 am

Can you disable it? I’d prefer to go stealth and sneak up on the locals.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Sun May 26, 2019 8:20 am

Mikey wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 7:42 pm
Papa Willie wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 2:29 pm Nice. Now go out and drive across the country and tell us how the convenience factor is...
The convenience factor is fine. I’ve never driven across the country and don’t plan to. If I did I wouldn’t drive a leased car. I’d probably rent one. There’s an Enterprise office a couple of miles from here.

Could you possibly be more obtuse? This is for my daily commute, which is 17 miles each way. If I drive 200 miles a week, I only need to charge it once a week, at home, overnight, at a cost of $0.09/kWh. That works out to $4.50 per week at 4 mi per KWh (I actually do a little better than that) for 200 mlles. How much do you pay for gas? Can you fill up at home while you sleep?

Just to help you out a little, because I know this is beyond your analytical capability, if you get 40 mpg and gas is $3.00/gal it’s going to cost you $15.00 in gas to drive 200 miles.

The convenience factor is pretty fucking awesome to tell you the truth.

Not to be snarky, but when was the last time gas was $3.00 a gallon in California? It’d one thing if the roads were smooth as glass and relatively empty because the exorbitant taxes you pay at the pump resulted in nice things like that, but the last time I was there I-5 and Hwy 99 look like Goober’s face when he was a teenager. No bueno, amigo.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun May 26, 2019 3:25 pm

Rooster wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 8:20 am
Mikey wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 7:42 pm
Papa Willie wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 2:29 pm Nice. Now go out and drive across the country and tell us how the convenience factor is...
The convenience factor is fine. I’ve never driven across the country and don’t plan to. If I did I wouldn’t drive a leased car. I’d probably rent one. There’s an Enterprise office a couple of miles from here.

Could you possibly be more obtuse? This is for my daily commute, which is 17 miles each way. If I drive 200 miles a week, I only need to charge it once a week, at home, overnight, at a cost of $0.09/kWh. That works out to $4.50 per week at 4 mi per KWh (I actually do a little better than that) for 200 mlles. How much do you pay for gas? Can you fill up at home while you sleep?

Just to help you out a little, because I know this is beyond your analytical capability, if you get 40 mpg and gas is $3.00/gal it’s going to cost you $15.00 in gas to drive 200 miles.

The convenience factor is pretty fucking awesome to tell you the truth.

Not to be snarky, but when was the last time gas was $3.00 a gallon in California? It’d one thing if the roads were smooth as glass and relatively empty because the exorbitant taxes you pay at the pump resulted in nice things like that, but the last time I was there I-5 and Hwy 99 look like Goober’s face when he was a teenager. No bueno, amigo.

What does that have to do with my comparison of gas vs EV operating costs? I’m fully aware that gas averages over $4.00 in CA. That would only make my comparison more favorable toward the EV. I only used $3.00 because that’s closer to the national average, and particularly for Melty because I don’t think he can count past 3.

A discussion of our road conditions is certainly a legitimate topic, perhaps in a separate thread?

A few relevant questions (for your new thread).

Do you have any documentation that our roads are in fact any worse than the rest of the country?
Are the states responsible for maintaining the interstate highways? Should they be?
California is the only state, including Texas, that doesn’t charge a statewide severance tax on oil production. Why is this, and do you think we should?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun May 26, 2019 3:29 pm

Rooster wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 8:14 am Can you disable it? I’d prefer to go stealth and sneak up on the locals.

I don’t think so but not sure. I think it’s now a required safety feature. My 2017 plug- in didn’t have it and I sometimes thought it was cool to sneak up behind people walking in parking lots. But it sucks having to honk your horn to get their attention.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Sun May 26, 2019 3:57 pm

Mikey wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 3:25 pm
Rooster wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 8:20 am
Mikey wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 7:42 pm
The convenience factor is fine. I’ve never driven across the country and don’t plan to. If I did I wouldn’t drive a leased car. I’d probably rent one. There’s an Enterprise office a couple of miles from here.

Could you possibly be more obtuse? This is for my daily commute, which is 17 miles each way. If I drive 200 miles a week, I only need to charge it once a week, at home, overnight, at a cost of $0.09/kWh. That works out to $4.50 per week at 4 mi per KWh (I actually do a little better than that) for 200 mlles. How much do you pay for gas? Can you fill up at home while you sleep?

Just to help you out a little, because I know this is beyond your analytical capability, if you get 40 mpg and gas is $3.00/gal it’s going to cost you $15.00 in gas to drive 200 miles.

The convenience factor is pretty fucking awesome to tell you the truth.

Not to be snarky, but when was the last time gas was $3.00 a gallon in California? It’d one thing if the roads were smooth as glass and relatively empty because the exorbitant taxes you pay at the pump resulted in nice things like that, but the last time I was there I-5 and Hwy 99 look like Goober’s face when he was a teenager. No bueno, amigo.
What does that have to do with my comparison of gas vs EV operating costs? I’m fully aware that gas averages over $4.00 in CA. That would only make my comparison more favorable toward the EV. I only used $3.00 because that’s closer to the national average, and particularly for Melty because I don’t think he can count past 3.

A discussion of our road conditions is certainly a legitimate topic, perhaps in a separate thread?

A few relevant questions (for your new thread).

Do you have any documentation that our roads are in fact any worse than the rest of the country?
Are the states responsible for maintaining the interstate highways? Should they be?
California is the only state, including Texas, that doesn’t charge a statewide severance tax on oil production. Why is this, and do you think we should?

You’re right, my comment had nothing to do with your new car, but still, you drive on those horrible roads and I’d think you’d want something more than what you’re getting in terms of your gas tax out there. Anecdotally, yes, places like Alabama or Kentucky have far superior roads to California. Smooth, no potholes or bad transitions on bridges, wide, and traffic is light.

Kierland · Post by **Kierland** » Sun May 26, 2019 4:26 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 5:37 pm What is the range if you had to run the heater and or a/c every day?

A full EV doesn’t make sense for me yet. Mountain driving and 4 wheel drive with the heater blasting. But if there were a hybrid option I would consider it.

You are an oil industry cuck.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun May 26, 2019 4:33 pm

The gas tax was raised in 2017 with the intent that it be used to improve the conditions of the roads. I wouldn't expect to see an immediate improvement but apparently there is some question as to whether these funds are actually being spend on roads. I believe that the new Governor has launched an investigation into this and if it's true some heads should roll.

That being said, I've been driving a lot over that past few years and haven't noticed that things are all that bad. No big problems on my commute to work, which is all on surface streets. I don't have any out of state comparisons to make from personal experience. I know that California has a reputation for having some of the worst roads in the country, as in this Forbes article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... b398b83a1c

Keep in mind that this is 2017 data, from before the gas tax increase, and I'm not sure of the source.

But here's a study based on crowd sourced data from a dash-cam app that records actual road conditions in real time. It shows that CA has the eighth BEST overall pavement quality.

https://medium.com/lvl5/introducing-cro ... dafd15a903

Who are you going to believe?

It's hard to be too optimistic about infrastructure on a nationwide basis when you have a president who pointedly refuses to work with anybody he doesn't like.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/us/p ... -bill.html

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun May 26, 2019 5:04 pm

Pavement quality should simply correlate to climate/traffic load. Mostly traffic.

I can attest to the shittiness of RI roads. Shameful.

Cali should have fantastic roads, with the exception of a few spots in the Sierras where they actually experience frost heave. Makes sense that Florida has the best. The whole fukking state is a sub-tropical sandbar. With the exception of the occasional sinkhole, they should have zero issues.

I would have put PA at the top of the shit road heap. Even their interstates are an embarrassment.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun May 26, 2019 7:14 pm

Your dumbfucked one dimensional brain is still in fine form.
Props for consistency, I guess.

If I want to drive somewhere that’s 300 miles away I take the OL’s CRV.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun May 26, 2019 7:23 pm

Why should the Feds be in the road business? I guess one can make an argument for the interstate highway system, but states should be collecting gas taxes and handling road repair/construction.

Kierland · Post by **Kierland** » Sun May 26, 2019 8:10 pm

Read the constitution idiot.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Sun May 26, 2019 9:02 pm

Kierland wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 4:26 pm
You are an oil industry cuck.

Let the ignorant wallow in their ignorance. It's the only thing they have complete mastery of.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun May 26, 2019 10:02 pm

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 9:02 pm
Let the ignorant wallow in their ignorance. It's the only thing they have complete mastery of.

This should be good. Please point out a 4x4 SUV or truck that is all electric that will make 400 miles or so in winter with the heater on and a full payload.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Sun May 26, 2019 10:13 pm

Morons going into debt to buy ginormous 4 wheel drive trucks that never see a splash of mud on the panels or ever...EVER, have anything dropped in the bed...I guess it's all you people can fit into these days.

'Murica.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Sun May 26, 2019 10:15 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 10:02 pm Please point out a 4x4 SUV or truck that is all electric that will make 400 miles or so in winter with the heater on and a full payload.

The percentage of folks who actually require a vehicle like that is somewhere in the realm of statistical noise.

I know...I know..."muh freedom"...

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun May 26, 2019 10:20 pm

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 10:13 pm Morons going into debt to buy ginormous 4 wheel drive trucks that never see a splash of mud on the panels or ever...EVER, have anything dropped in the bed...I guess it's all you people can fit into these days.

'Murica.

Your reading comp is utter shit. Who said anything about debt? The 4x4 is necessary for the snow. When we relocate to the Edward CO area 4x4 becomes mandatory for the months we are there. Taking the dogs and ski gear and the like don’t fit in Mikey’s new rig.

So again, please point out the 4x4 SUV or truck full electric that can make winter driving, with the heater blasting and a full payload.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon May 27, 2019 12:17 am

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 10:28 pm
Mikey wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 7:14 pm Your dumbfucked one dimensional brain is still in fine form.
Props for consistency, I guess.

If I want to drive somewhere that’s 300 miles away I take the OL’s CRV.
Well a CRV isn't very green, is it?

Not as green as the EV, but a lot greener than a 1/2 ton pickup. Plus, I don't use it every day.
What's your point?

Take a look in Auto-Trader and notice how many Leaf's are for sale. Do it. Tell me why that happens.

There are a lot of F150s for sale too.
What's your point?

Besides, I don't have a leaf. I do have a clue.
Apparently you have neither.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Mon May 27, 2019 11:23 pm

Willie, you really need to just let it go. EVs are here to stay. They actually do make sense for some people. What I do not like is that the gubmint is still bribing people to buy them. IMO, they are developed enough now to sell without subsidies.

Kierland · Post by **Kierland** » Mon May 27, 2019 11:56 pm

But you are down with the gov sucking oil industry dick.
Just stfu you dick swilling tard.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue May 28, 2019 2:52 pm

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 1:45 am Fuck, Mikey. Sometimes your density is astounding. You're still a good guy in my book, though.

Hey, I love you too, man.

I understand that you're not down with driving an EV. Your choice. But I don't get why you're so offended that somebody else would be.

Honestly, I didn't get it because it's "green" (maybe a little bit). Here are the main reasons.

The lease on my current vehicle is running out this month. Buying out the lease is not an option, so I needed something. Being sort of an energy and transportation techno geek this was a good opportunity to try out something new.

It's cheap to operate. Prolly 1/4 the cost of gas (at least here).

The range is more than adequate, and perfect for what I'm using it for. I can drive it all week without charging it. Yes, it will take several hours for a full charge, but I don't have to go to a gas station. I can easily drive to LA and back.

It's almost maintenance free. No tune-ups. No oil changes. Just rotate the tires.

It's a fucking hoot to drive. There are several features you'll never see on a gas engine car, like 99% of the time you never need to use the brakes. Plus the 201 HP electric motor seriously makes this the quickest thing I've ever driven. Smooth consistent torque with no gear shifting.

So, keep your gas guzzler. It doesn't bother me. I'm having a good time.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue May 28, 2019 2:53 pm

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 3:30 am
smackaholic wrote:Willie, you really need to just let it go. EVs are here to stay. They actually do make sense for some people. What I do not like is that the gubmint is still bribing people to buy them. IMO, they are developed enough now to sell without subsidies.
When they can go at least 500 miles and be recharged anywhere in a maximum of 10 minutes, then I’ll be on board.

Like I said, if I need to go 500 miles in a day, I'll use the OL's CRV, which is a fine vehicle.

Do you use the same guitar for every song you play?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue May 28, 2019 5:06 pm

I get that, for sure. But as I already explained (three times I think), I don't have that problem.

Plus, I can plug in to one of the Tesla DC superchargers if I need to.

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Tue May 28, 2019 5:32 pm

Quite a few people at the office have electric vehicles and solar panels on their homes to facilitate charging. Seems like a good way to commute, although one guy lost a lot of range in 3 years with a Nissan Leaf. Many have Tesla's that have a much longer range though, and they can also be recharged at the office. Leasing might be the way to go for avoiding battery replacement or less range and less resale value down the road. Good plan Mikey.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue May 28, 2019 9:28 pm

smackaholic wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 5:04 pmI would have put PA at the top of the shit road heap. Even their interstates are an embarrassment.

PA is starting to step its game up. I was surprised at how well put together the roadways around Pittsburgh were when we visited last year.

Of course the true test is if you can drive I-80 at 75 mph without losing parts of your car.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue May 28, 2019 9:37 pm

Joe in PB wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 5:32 pm Quite a few people at the office have electric vehicles and solar panels on their homes to facilitate charging. Seems like a good way to commute, although one guy lost a lot of range in 3 years with a Nissan Leaf. Many have Tesla's that have a much longer range though, and they can also be recharged at the office. Leasing might be the way to go for avoiding battery replacement or less range and less resale value down the road. Good plan Mikey.

My Fusion plug-in hybrid lost about 20% to 25% of its range between years 2 and 3. That brought it down from about 24 miles to 19 or 20, which made a big difference since my commute is 34 miles total. The Hyundai is "supposed" to be a better battery, and not lose as much range. We'll see. But I'm getting about 280 miles now. If that goes down to 220 or 230 it won't make much, if any, difference to me.

The battery comes with a "lifetime warranty." That means they guarantee that it won't fail, not that it won't lose some range, which it definitely will. And the battery warranty only covers the first owner. So you're right, the lease covers my ass. Hyundai still has a 5 year 60,000 mile basic warranty and 10 years / 100,000 miles on the power train. If the battery craps out I turn it in after three years and walk away. I'll probably do that anyway.