Does any other nation but ours...

Y2K · Post by **Y2K** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:12 pm

I jumped in the truck to run down to Lowes to buy some lumber. The station was still on local 580 AM because I was listening to a Fresno State game last night only to immediately hear some Mensa explain to RushinonOxy Limbaugh that it's great that Exxon/mobile made so much money because look at the tax revenue the IRS will collect on the Billion Dollar Profits...........

Jesus people are fucking stupid.....

Sometimes Darwin misses the right target....

Roofer · Post by **Roofer** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:26 pm

Y2K wrote: The station was still on local 580 AM because I was listening to a Fresno State game last night

You were listening to college baseball on the radio? Dude you need some serious help. :)

Y2K · Post by **Y2K** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:29 pm

Roofer wrote:
Y2K wrote: The station was still on local 580 AM because I was listening to a Fresno State game last night
You were listening to college baseball on the radio? Dude you need some serious help. :)

PING!

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:32 pm

Roofer wrote:
Y2K wrote: The station was still on local 580 AM because I was listening to a Fresno State game last night
You were listening to college baseball on the radio? Dude you need some serious help. :)

Thats all they have in Fresno. AM radio.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed May 03, 2006 11:45 pm

Roofer wrote:
Y2K wrote: The station was still on local 580 AM because I was listening to a Fresno State game last night
You were listening to college baseball on the radio? Dude you need some serious help. :)

He's been cornered by Commies - he needs help BAD.

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:01 am

Y2K wrote:The UFW
United Farmworkers UNION rallys have long been organized and financed by supporters of Communisim. The Immigration Rallys here in Cali over the last month were predominately staged by these groups statewide. The decendents of Mexican Labor Hero Ceasar Chavez are well connected with Communists both in the USA and Mexico and have turned over most of the Public Relations to them so they can live as millionares off the (again purposely kept ignorant and misinformed) members dues. My wifes grandfather was a Teamster for 35 years and just recently told me why he couldn't attend meetings because it made him so disgusted and sickened that it mentally changed the way he looked at a job he really loved to do. (Wonder Bread aka. Continental Bakeries.) Members were routinely told to shut the fuck up and just pay what they were asked and not allowed to question the authority of Union Leadership, Ray explained how his money often dissappeared for the good of the brotherhood as the Union Heads dabbled in various self serving ventures. There was no Democracy but pure Communist Philosophy conjoined with graft and corruption (just like the good ole USSR)
The only solace was a decent wage and retirement package that you couldn't vote against. It isn't any damned "Red Scare" paranoia just fucking FACTS laid out right in front of your face.
We have people in BOTH political parties that have allowed shit like this to go on purposely unnoticed for way to long to collect favors and contributions from people who don't give a fuck about anything other than self serving Shit with visions of God like power over fellow Americans who OWE them some sort of Uberrespect because they are rich, influential, powerful or any combination of the 3. This is just a fraction of the stories he told me.
Yes PSU, there's MANY a Communist Principle being played by Unions out there and they are gaining momentum quicky based on reality isn't accepted because it's not Politically Correct to call some fucker a goddamn POS Traitor because they're using some touchy feely cause to shield their gameplan. See the Immigration Rallys of late for what they actually are and Wake up.

RACK YOU Comrade Y2K! If you didn't spend your time mooching off your employees wages like some welfare queen, I would award you the medal of Lenin.

What's the first thing a Communist Party does when it comes into power?

It smashes the Unions and throws those money grubbing fat-cats in the gulag. Any Marxist knows that unions rely on the capitalist system for their survival - trade union leaders are reactionary by definition, they provide slightly better conditions for their members but from a Communist point of view, this is a gilded cage for wage slavery and serves only to maintain the existing structure of society. Not exactly a recipe for revolution now, is it?

All the genuine Communists in the American Labour movement were murdered, thrown in prison or hounded out of the country half a century ago.

B-Smack is entirely right - North Americans trade unionists are a hodge-podge of whacked out utopian nutjobs, crooks and bandits.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:28 am

PSUFAN wrote:So, say you have a family in mexico. You look at your wife and kids and you look at the prospects you have at feeding them. You have a vast industrial and agricultural economy to your north, and very likely you have friends and relatives that have gone there and are sending CASH back for their families. You have employers welcoming you with open arms, because you work hard, and you come to them cheap. You have politicians and law enforcement who are unwilling to fuck with illegal employers.

You look at your wife, and she tells you to go Norte and make some fucking money. What do you do? Don't bother answering, it's really not necessary. As you head north, you have the feeling that you're doing what you can do for your family. You're not worrying about what Vincente Fox or George Bush might think about your intentions - you're taking risks for the good of your family.

No denying any of that, but keep in mind that's the exact same rationale liquor store robbers often use when asked, "Why???"

Either way, sorry...True though it may be it's still Mexico's problem, not ours. Just because you see opportunity here doesn't mean we're obligated to bend over and grant you that opportunity, especially if you're going to attempt to steal your way into said opportunity.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:29 am

Spinach Genie wrote: Fuck, nothing we can do about it...so let's just grant amnesty.

The proposed Senate bill doesn't grant amnesty...you might just try checking out the particulars sometime soon...after you're done pulling your head out of your ass, that is.

What it is about is a problem and trying to correct the problem, which doesn't begin by ignoring it. Sorry you didn't get it.

Yes, Spinach Genie (did I just type that?), that's exactly what I'm doing here.

Ignoring the problem.

Thanks for setting me straight.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:31 am

Good enough. I was making the point that floating over in a coffeecan can be a familial act.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:37 am

Also, no, I really don't see the Republicans sweating this issue in terms of offending the Latino vote...

The Democrats own California, lock stock and barrel. The Democrats own the Latino vote. That's been decided.

The best thing the Republicans can do to win the election is take the proper hard line on illegal immigration and then count on the usual hardcore constituency to rally behind them and turn out in impassioned masses. The flipside is that the Latino vote simply isn't that pressing of a national issue since they simply aren't solid voters like the hardcore Republican constituency...

Concede that Latino vote. Fuck it, it's gone anyway. Win the elections by doing the right thing. Along the way, hey, enjoy the rare opportunity to do the right thing simply because it' s the right thing to do for this country.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Thu May 04, 2006 3:03 am

Van wrote:Win the elections by doing the right thing. Along the way, hey, enjoy the rare opportunity to do the right thing simply because it' s the right thing to do for this country.

elections, my ass.

Just do the right thing by human beings.

What a concept.

socal · Post by **socal** » Thu May 04, 2006 3:22 am

Spinach Genie wrote:Then you've just agreed with Van's point.

Yes, Spinach Marcus, I agree with those two points.

$8 lettuce? Link?

Titty-twist the context much? I asked if he was ready for such a price. Ready as in the near future.

I'd say the illegals are the only ones ripping families apart.

Ever the guardian of personal responsibility: Spinach Genie you're a regular Father Knows Best. Yes, as a consequence of their actions the illegals brought it on themselves. But are you gonna make 'em leave their kids who were born here? Doubt it.

At least they have a visa. It is on record. If they overstay, they can be monitored and dealt with accordingly. They aren't clogging up emergency rooms with shit like tuberculosis and sucking down social welfare at out of control rates either.

So these cheaters are okay with you but these aren't? Are you a traffic cop or sumptin?

socal · Post by **socal** » Thu May 04, 2006 3:32 am

Van wrote:SoCal, there's no reason for us to be staring at $8 heads of lettuce.

Besides, how's your auto insurance bill looking lately? Your medical coverage bill?

Had to use an ER lately? (Now, granted, because you're a school teacher your co-pays might actually still be small so some of this may not be affecting you...)

As for ripping families apart?? I'd say those families were already ripped apart when pops took off for America, leaving his wife and kids back home to wait for his next paycheck.

Not that it should even matter to us but sending illegals back home should primarily serve to reunite families.

Van,

There's no denying that costs are rising sharply in the last year. Last I checked gasoline prices weren't rising faster than your blood pressure because of illegal immigrants from Mexico.

Medical coverage is no longer a sacred cow in my district. The timing of open enrollment 15 months ago and my family's move from the cheaper HMO coverage to the more pricey PPO coverage wasn't a wise one. Though I haven't been to an ER, I've got two kids in braces (not covered BTW) and costs are spiraling. There ain't no illegals clogging up the waiting room in Los Alamitos, just a bunch of surly old fucks like you, me, and Luther.

And not every illegal has family back home. They're here. They were born here two, three, four generations ago. Girl, you know it's true.

Spinach Genie · Post by **Spinach Genie** » Thu May 04, 2006 3:32 am

Cheaters aren't OK with me when they become a problem. Do you think illegals aren't a problem?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Thu May 04, 2006 3:42 am

Spinach Genie wrote:Cheaters aren't OK with me when they become a problem. Do you think illegals aren't a problem?

No, but I think you're a dumbass.

Does that answer your question?

Spinach Genie · Post by **Spinach Genie** » Thu May 04, 2006 3:49 am

You've already been dismissed, dipshit. If I want to address the short bus, there's far more interesting denizens floating about these parts than you.

socal · Post by **socal** » Thu May 04, 2006 3:56 am

Tell you what, SG. Long story, not short. I've got family of sorts split between here and Ecuador. Got a scorecard?

My sister-in-law's parents legally immigrated here from Peru. My sister-in-law was later born here in the U.S. She was the youngest of five. Her four older siblings over time became naturalized citizens. Her oldest sister married an Ecuadorian citizen. She moved back there with him. She ostensibly came back here in '77 so her son would be a U.S. citizen when he was born. She had another daughter later in Ecuador about five years later.

To update, father Ecuadorian, mother Peruvian, son American, daughter Ecuadorian. Extended family in U.S., Peru, and Ecuador. The family moves back to the U.S. around '90. Parents work, kids in school. Family moves back to Ecuador once son reaches college. They stay there another decade. Now son is getting married around 1999. Grandkids are coming. Grandparents decide to sell assets in South America and move permanently to U.S. and finish the process of becoming naturalized citizens. They do it in stages. Father goes back to Ecuador in 2001 to sell his business. He sells it. Smooth sailing back to the U.S. with the golden years ahead. No more split-time between countries. He has a flight scheduled to arrive at LAX September 13, 2001.

You know the rest. Takes him an additional year before he's allowed in.

Meanwhile, the same laws that prevented him from getting in were about to send his daughter out. They retain an immigration attorney to no avail. Apparently she overstayed her visa. Then a clerical error in her paperwork essentially leaves her on the outside looking in. Back to Ecuador. Get back in line. That was almost three years ago. In that time her mom and pops have become naturalized citizens. She's still waiting to get in. She calls them daily. Miss each other terribly. Ain't pretty.

Now what was it you asked? Oh, yeah. Am I of the opinion that illegals aren't the problem. Not exclusively. They are demonized for shit they didn't do.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu May 04, 2006 4:11 am

Ah, but socal, crying about illegals is all the rage. They're tearing this country to shreds. They are to blame for the state of Health Care, for high gas prices, for rising interest rates, and for faulty Maine lobsterpots, among other things. They are drums for the scions of the New Media to beat.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu May 04, 2006 4:48 am

Gas prices are still dictated by supply and demand, among other things. So, yes, if the number is twelve million illegals in this country then you can be damn sure they're more than doing their part to increase demand for gas.

Gotta then balance the six to a car factor with the fact that the car is a wheezing old Datsun B210 spewing god knows what into the air...

Hmmm. :-)

Oh, and btw...

SoCal wrote:Something, something...yada yada...All my female relatives are from South America...and further more....dither dather...bunches of nothings, etc...Did I mention that I'm constantly sportin' wood at family gatherings 'cause of all the fuggen HOT latina chicks in my family...

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 4:52 am

Van wrote:I listed it among many other items.

But you only bolded the 'illegal' part which is what I called you on. You tried to distract everyone by emphasizing that it is illegal when that proves nothing about whether or not it is good or bad due to the malum prohibitum nature of the offense. It's a common fallacy used by tards like you to try and make an argument appear better than it is.

If you re-read the original post you'll notice that what this thread is about is the fact that our country is the only country around that puts up with this crap the way we do.

If you re-read my posts you will see that I don't give a fuck what you say about what this thread is about. I only care that you are using a logical fallacy to try and prove your point. You are a tard.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:01 am

Van wrote:
PSUFAN wrote: You look at your wife, and she tells you to go Norte and make some fucking money. What do you do? Don't bother answering, it's really not necessary. As you head north...
No denying any of that, but keep in mind that's the exact same rationale liquor store robbers often use when asked, "Why???"

Robbing a liquor store is malum in se you stupid fucking 'couldn't make a proper analogy on your best day' tard. Do you have any idea as to the proper use of the 'necessity' defense visa vie malum in se vs. malum prohibitum crimes? How about visa vie crimes against the person vs. crimes against property/society? Of course you don't because you are a tard.

Spinach Genie · Post by **Spinach Genie** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:03 am

Can you argue any point without sounding like a pre-law student, you vaginal boil?

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:05 am

88 wrote:Securing the borders is a great idea, but it won't solve the illegal immigration problem.

***

b. the "lower" class will be motivated to work themselves out of the "lower" class and into middle class.

Not a bad post. Over half of what you said was true and logically sound. Not sure why you can't do that more often, but props none-the-less.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:07 am

88 is on the money, so give him full props.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:08 am

Spinach Genie wrote:Can you argue any point without sounding like a pre-law student, you vaginal boil?

Since you idiots can't even understand pre-law, how exactly would anyone be able to respond if I didn't dumb it down?

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:09 am

Atomic Punk wrote:88 is on the money, so give him full props.

How about 3/4 props?

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:10 am

13/16ths?

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:11 am

Deal.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:15 am

You are a tough negotiator. Live long and prosper!

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:15 am

TVO, you've yet to prove how being illegal in our country isn't bad. Meanwhile, I've stated countless examples of why it is bad.

Pretty simple, dunce. It's still on you to prove it's not bad. Merely stating that not all illegal activities are necessarily bad doesn't begin to address this specific situation. It's just another of your academic crusty sock episodes.

I truly hope you're better at this shit in real life than you are here. Playing your obligatory contrarian role here while again offering nothing of substance in defense of your fluff ridden talking points doesn't make you look learned, or even open minded. As always, it just continues to make you look vapid, narcissistic and downright cunty.

Considering you do something similar to this for a living I'm still shocked that you're so gobsmackingly average at this shit. Take away your latin phrases (which serve no purpose here other than to give you cause to stroke yourself) and your entire shtick can be condensed thusly:

-The sky is red, since you said it's blue.

-Subject changing spin

-Gratuitous name calling

The fact that you're not even in the upper echelon of debaters on a sports spinoff BBS board is just amazing to me. I know you've mentioned that you've become burnt out on this place so you really don't feel much like putting any real effort into anything here anymore but even with all that being true you really should still be better at this shit.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:29 am

Van wrote:TVO, you've yet to prove how being illegal in our country isn't bad.

Gawd you are a tard. It may or may not be bad. That isn't my point you obtuse fuck. My point is, for the 10th fucking time, that bolding it illegal proves nothing since it isn't malum in se, so why do it in your lead-in unless you are too stupid to realize it proves nothing... which you are.

I'm surrounded by idiots.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:36 am

You're approaching hopelessness.

There is no debate. There's no "may or may not" grey area here. Illegal immigration is bad for this country, especially on the scale we've seen. The only debate centers around what needs to be done about it?

Trying to spin this away from the most obvious of truths will continue to get you nowhere but enjoy your mirror and your bottle of lotion anyway...

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:36 am

I can do it w/o Latin if you like...

Moving Sale wrote:
Van wrote:TVO, you've yet to prove how being illegal in our country isn't bad.
Gawd you are a tard. It may or may not be bad. That isn't my point you obtuse fuck. My point is, for the 10th fucking time, that bolding it illegal proves nothing since it isn't wrong in itself*, so why do it in your lead-in unless you are too stupid to realize it proves nothing... which you are.

I'm surrounded by idiots.

*i.e.** it is inherently evil without any fact of its being noticed or punished; such crimes as larceny, rape and murder are considered malum in se. This concept was used to develop the various common law crimes. <--Plagiarized.

**i.e.
abbr. Latin.
id est (that is)

oops, guess I couldn't.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:39 am

Van wrote:The only debate centers around what needs to be done about it?

Then why the need to bold that it is illegal when that proves nothing? Why screw the pooch from the get go and make yourself look stupid? Why KYOA in the first line of a thread? Why Van? Why?

'Approaching hopelessness' is right.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:45 am

Atomic Punk wrote:You are a tough negotiator.

If you had gone to 15/16ths, I probably would have gone to 7/8ths.

Dumbass.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:45 am

Do you even have a plan here??

Why do you keep harping on the malum in se definition?? It doesn't address any point that needs addressing.

Who gives a shit if one illegal activity isn't of the same type and definition as another? Is anybody here besides you debating that?

Once again there you are, attempting to spin away from the subject at hand by attempting to change the subject...

Nobody cares that illegal immigration doesn't meet the same definition of illegal activity as rape, larceny and murder. Nobody's attempting to make that comparison.

Eye on the ball, monkey.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:47 am

Moving Sale wrote:
Van wrote:The only debate centers around what needs to be done about it?
Then why the need to bold that it is illegal when that proves nothing?

"Illegal" immigrants, as opposed to "legal" immigrants.

They're illegal. By definition. Nothing more need be proven in that regard.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:50 am

Wow, The Vaginal One is in rare form tonight.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:57 am

Van wrote:Do you even have a plan here??

To bang my head against an obtuse wall maybe?

Why do you keep harping on the malum in se definition?? It doesn't address any point that needs addressing.

Yes it does. The point I’m trying to hammer into your pointy little head.

Who gives a shit if one illegal activity isn't of the same type and definition as another?

I do maybe?

Is anybody here besides you debating that?

No. So what? Doesn’t make my point any less valid. Use a new fallacy in every post much?

Once again there you are, attempting to spin away from the subject at hand by attempting to change the subject...

In case you haven’t noticed, and you haven’t, I have brought up a new subject, i.e. (sorry about using that pesky Latin again) that its illegal status is, by itself, a red herring argument. Hence, it is a fallacy. Hence, you are a tard.

Nobody cares that illegal immigration doesn't meet the same definition of illegal activity as rape, larceny and murder. Nobody's attempting to make that comparison.

That is except you. That is my whole point you moronic dolt. You are lumping it in with those malum in se crimes by bolding it’s illegal status. Those crimes stand alone as bad. You tried to do the same thing by emphasizing its illegal status.

Lights yet?

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu May 04, 2006 6:02 am

Van wrote: They're illegal. By definition. Nothing more need be proven in that regard.

Try English for a change? Holy crap. Of course they are illegal. Shuh! My point is that the fact that they are illegal doesn’t help to prove that what they are doing is ‘wrong.’ Do you know the difference between moral and legal arguments? It isn’t wrong because it is illegal which you insinuated by bolding ‘illegal’ in your first post…. Twice. Nice going FubuVan.