Steve Colbert

[PSUFAN]

Clinton, as popular as he was, will probably go down as one of the least respected presidents in American history.

Don't forget that we're talking about respect paid by other nations in foreign policy, not Spinach Genie's respect. Clinton was very well-respected by other nations in foreign policy, as little as one might share that respect. Remember, the crowing about "Old Europe" started with the Bush Administration.

Was he? Like I said, he was popular...but he was also impeached, marched through the press, humiliated in Somalia, humiliated by Sadaam, humiliated by Bin Ladin...he towed the Euro-internationalist line, but respect? Maybe...

FOCUS for a second. I realize that you guys aren't happy in any discussion about Bush until you're lambasting the Clinton presidency - but the point that I'm making about Clinton is that he was highly respected among our allies. That doesn't have to impress you - you merely have to nod to it as fact.

[al?]

There is a time and place for most things in this country, lampooning the POTUS to his face is certainly among them. If folks were offended by that, then they have been far too insulated, IMO.

Your country (and mine) needs a hell of a lot more in the way of that line of thinking. Any leader worth his/her salt would have handled that a lot better than President "Damn those headlights are bright.....What do I do?!?!?!! Dick?!?!? Carl?!?!?! CONDI!?!?!?!" Bush

[Eaglebauer]

With all due respect, I don't see how humor of this sort changes a thing when it comes to US foreign policy. Nations deal with the US with or without having considered what comedians or columnists or talking heads have to say about the President. In most cases, other nations do their own share of lampooning the POTUS, but it doesn't change their willingness to work with the US. Case in point - Tony Blair. Despite the overwhelming feelings of his countrymen, surely depicted in savage terms in media of all sorts, he worked with the Bush Administration when it came to foreign policy.

Perhaps it bothers you to see Bush mocked...did it bother you to see Clinton or any of their predecessors mocked? Did it hamper their foreign policies?

We don't have an Imperial Presidency, despite all current sentiment towards exactly that. Ribaldry comes with the territory, even if adhering to the letters of the laws might not.

Did it hamper Clinton? I'd say that's fairly obvious. Clinton, as popular as he was, will probably go down as one of the least respected presidents in American history.

Jesus H. Christ. You've never been outside the United States, have you? He's a respected statesman in just about every democratic nation aside from the U.S., where Fox News and Rush and the Religious Right weren't able to effectively brainwash the servant class tards like yourself.

[Mikey]

With all due respect, I don't see how humor of this sort changes a thing when it comes to US foreign policy. Nations deal with the US with or without having considered what comedians or columnists or talking heads have to say about the President. In most cases, other nations do their own share of lampooning the POTUS, but it doesn't change their willingness to work with the US. Case in point - Tony Blair. Despite the overwhelming feelings of his countrymen, surely depicted in savage terms in media of all sorts, he worked with the Bush Administration when it came to foreign policy.

Perhaps it bothers you to see Bush mocked...did it bother you to see Clinton or any of their predecessors mocked? Did it hamper their foreign policies?

We don't have an Imperial Presidency, despite all current sentiment towards exactly that. Ribaldry comes with the territory, even if adhering to the letters of the laws might not.

Did it hamper Clinton? I'd say that's fairly obvious. Clinton, as popular as he was, will probably go down as one of the least respected presidents in American history.

Jesus H. Christ. You've never been outside the United States, have you? He's a respected statesman in just about every democratic nation aside from the U.S., where Fox News and Rush and the Religious Right weren't able to effectively brainwash the servant class tards like yourself.

Yeah but they're all Commies and they hate everything that's good and nice and respectable and wholesome about America...like President Bush and his family. So who cares what they think?

[Spinach Genie]

FOCUS for a second. I realize that you guys aren't happy in any discussion about Bush until you're lambasting the Clinton presidency - but the point that I'm making about Clinton is that he was highly respected among our allies. That doesn't have to impress you - you merely have to nod to it as fact.

It isn't fact, however.

[Spinach Genie]

...and yes, Mikey...in the grand scheme of things what Europe thinks about anything is of little interest. What is important is what our enemies thought of us, and under Clinton - the obvious signal most of them received was "America is vulnerable". In '01, they cashed in.

[PSUFAN]

FOCUS for a second. I realize that you guys aren't happy in any discussion about Bush until you're lambasting the Clinton presidency - but the point that I'm making about Clinton is that he was highly respected among our allies. That doesn't have to impress you - you merely have to nod to it as fact.

It isn't fact, however.

Clinton respected by our allies, when he and they were in power? Oh yes it is a fact.

And let's pose again the question from earlier...you bemoan the fouled sanctity of the Office as Bush is mocked to his face...did you do the same when Clinton was mocked (probably never to his face)?

The fact of the matter is, you probably didn't. Only now that we are admidst an administration that you are at pains to justify do you get misty-eyed at the sanctity of the Office. Only now do your hackles raise when a funnyman makes us giggle a little at the POTUS. Why? Can't he handle a little ribbing?

The fact is, he can't. He's so insulated, he's never even encountered it before.

[Spinach Genie]

Clinton respected by our allies, when he and they were in power? Oh yes it is a fact.

The new slut being bent over by every guy in town is very popular, but never respected. You need only to look at how weak American foreign policy was during his reign to see just how respected he was internationally.

And let's pose again the question from earlier...you bemoan the fouled sanctity of the Office as Bush is mocked to his face...did you do the same when Clinton was mocked (probably never to his face)?

My position has always been respect the office.

The fact of the matter is, you probably didn't.

The fact of the matter is you don't know jack shit.

Only now that we are admidst an administration that you are at pains to justify do you get misty-eyed at the sanctity of the Office. Only now do your hackles raise when a funnyman makes us giggle a little at the POTUS. Why? Can't he handle a little ribbing?

I'm not at pains to justify anything. I'm not in agreement with the Bush administration on a number of items, but I do feel we are moving in the right direction on most important issues. And compared to Gore or Kerry, you could shove a box of cheerios in the oval office and I'd breathe a sigh of relief.

The fact is, he can't. He's so insulated, he's never even encountered it before.

Oh no, I'm sure he's never encountered it before. Yeah. That makes sense. Fact is if he couldn't handle it funnyman would have been bounced out on his ass. Disrespectful, yes. In poor taste, mostly. My only point in this thread was that the office of president commands much less respect than it did not so long ago. I thought debating this much more interesting than the usual lefty Bush bashing, but to each their own.

[Atomic Punk]

I'm not judging whether it was the right decision, never have here. But it seems as though you regret it now. Fwiw, I made the decision to get out as well. In my case, politics had nothing to do with it; it simply wasn't what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.

mvscal succinctly and correctly stated what the morale was at the time. We experts in the field were told by idiots somewhere what equipment we could use, and never listened to the experts at their particular craft tell them they didn't know what the fuck they were talking about.

It also became a backstabbing deal because they were RIF'ing people at the 15 to 18 years of service mark to cut spending. Then they were getting 75% retirement instead of the full deal when they do 20. You want to talk about low morale? At least I was lucky and took a voluntary buyout package where I still get paid today

It was unbearable to watch the post-Vietnam pussies run military commands and not stand up to the bullshit from the Clintonistas and their chosen pussies in senior ranks.. They were only concerned about their retiremnt and gladly lapped up any menstrual and man juice due to fear of not finding other work. It was that bad.

How good of a pilot can you be with an allotted 10 hrs/month doing touch and go's. But it get's better... one guy (gay) that left my squadron was on CNN and other morning news shows after Clinton welcomed the faggots. He was on TV as he was escorted off NAS Moffett Field and then let back in awhile later. I never had an issue with him or others, but he pushed that in your face shit on us when he was let back in.

It was like Clinton saying, "Fuck you people! I'm the President! hahahaha."

[Terry in Crapchester]

It also became a backstabbing deal because they were RIF'ing people at the 15 to 18 years of service mark to cut spending. Then they were getting 75% retirement instead of the full deal when they do 20. You want to talk about low morale? At least I was lucky and took a voluntary buyout package where I still get paid today

Along those lines, this happened to me, and since we're about the same age and went in around the same time, I'm sure it happened to you as well.

In 1988, they froze officer promotions for a period of five months. It just so happened that I was in zone for a promotion right at the time it happened. And as you know, going from O1 to O2 entails a pretty significant jump in pay (shortly before you make the decision whether to stay beyond your initial obligation). The result was about $5,000 taken out of my pocket and flushed down the toilet forever, and not a damn thing I could do about it except watch it happen.

I remember other officers at the time saying they'd never seen anything like that happen before. It was ostensibly a cost-cutting move, but of course, there was still plenty of money available for $600 hammers and $2,000 toilet seats.

Also around the same time, maybe the year before, IIRC, they changed the retirement pay for 20 years of service from 50% of base pay to 40%, although they did, in fairness, grandfather everyone in under the old rules who was already in the service when the change was made. And who was President in 1987 and 1988, btw?

My point is that, whenever the military is looking to cut costs, pay and training for the troops should be the absolute last place they look. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case, sad to say, and administrations of both parties are guilty in that regard.

[Neely8]

Corporate America does it too. I can remember seeing people at Metlife being canned/laid off after 19 3/4 years of service. Disgusting man.......

[Atomic Punk]

Along those lines, this happened to me, and since we're about the same age and went in around the same time, I'm sure it happened to you as well.

In 1988, they froze officer promotions for a period of five months. It just so happened that I was in zone for a promotion right at the time it happened. And as you know, going from O1 to O2 entails a pretty significant jump in pay (shortly before you make the decision whether to stay beyond your initial obligation). The result was about $5,000 taken out of my pocket and flushed down the toilet forever, and not a damn thing I could do about it except watch it happen.

Yep, I remember that. There were a whole bunch uf us O-1's looking at each other and the really pissed ones were the married ones. The military fucks each and every one of us w/o prejudice. Clinton was an enhancer much like a tube of lube. (simile)

[Terry in Crapchester]

Along those lines, this happened to me, and since we're about the same age and went in around the same time, I'm sure it happened to you as well.

In 1988, they froze officer promotions for a period of five months. It just so happened that I was in zone for a promotion right at the time it happened. And as you know, going from O1 to O2 entails a pretty significant jump in pay (shortly before you make the decision whether to stay beyond your initial obligation). The result was about $5,000 taken out of my pocket and flushed down the toilet forever, and not a damn thing I could do about it except watch it happen.

Yep, I remember that. There were a whole bunch uf us O-1's looking at each other and the really pissed ones were the married ones. The military fucks each and every one of us w/o prejudice.

I think there were something like 29 O-1's at my command all in the same year group. All except maybe 5 or 6 wound up getting out as soon as their minimal obligation was up. I'm pretty sure that was a major factor in those decisions.

Clinton was an enhancer much like a tube of lube. (simile)

But he's not the only one -- the entire point of my anecdote.

[Atomic Punk]

Look Terry, you don't see me in The Spin Zone for very good reason. Hell, a Zybuddy of mine is going to be the next CA Atty General but I could give a rat's ass about either side of the aisle. I really don't think the politicians give a fuck about anyone but themselves... so fuck them.

My obligation was a 4 year tack on to my scholarship requirement so when I got out, it was a good deal to take the buyout.

I can't emphasize or describe how low morale was under Clinton. I loved my job... getting paid to fly, but his budget cuts were so deep that it made him look like a a doctorate in economics. He is a piece of shit and we couldn't do anything to fight back at his bullshit other than to resign en masse.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I really don't think the politicians give a fuck about anyone but themselves... so fuck them.

AP, we agree on that point. Too much cronyism and not enough looking out for the little guy, on both sides of the aisle.

The troops are especially vulnerable on that count, since it's the government's responsibility to pay them.

[Atomic Punk]

The troops are the reason for why we officers existed. These are the worker bees and your entire existence is to lead them. They are the first to see through the bullshit and are the first to let you know what's the dealio.

How do you stay in when they are bitching to you about the bullshit every fucking day? Sorry fellas, it's time to resign my commission and Clinton can go fuck himself. That is pretty much the disgusted feelings I had and are being remembered right now.

[Terry in Crapchester]

How do you stay in when they are bitching to you about the bullshit every fucking day?

I get what you're saying here. My point was that I was out of the Navy long before Clinton became President, but I still heard it as well. At my command, it wasn't uncommon to hear sailors pretty much fresh out of boot camp counting their days. Like I said before, they were in four digits, but they were counting them all the same.

The troops have had to deal with bullshit from both sides of the aisle, unfortunately.

[Atomic Punk]

Yeah, it was a lot of pressure from them because they know if you're bullshitting them or being up front. When I couldn't push the bullshit on them it was time to leave.

Hell, Randy "Duke" Cunningham is in prison now. Thanks for serving your country.

xoxoxo

Barbara Boxer