Chasm widens between rich and poor

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:34 am

I swear, if that guy comes back in 6 months, I'll go out and buy a case of Heineken and pay him $20 to pose with it, in the kiddie pool, for my dogs. And yes, that photo will be posted.

Funny thing is ... I feel better about giving that loser $20 than I would any of the Bible-thumping tards who have knocked on my door, for Jesus.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:01 am

mvscal wrote:
only incentives for those willing to work or get a degree/skill.
Not wanting to live in a refrigerator box under a bridge ought to be a pretty effective incentive, don't you think?

Back on topic ...

You're right, we need ditchdiggers.

I'll ask you what I asked 88: Honestly, do you think the income gap is a good thing?

Mexico has a shitload of ditchdiggers. Their economic policy is, basically, isolationist. No foreign ownership of land. No foreign investment. No citizenship.

Sound familiar?

Only, it's too late for us, given that we allow 2 out of 3.

Actually 2 1/2 out of three, if you want to go through the red tape, and wait years. NO, I'm not saying illegal immigration is a good thing.

The economic gap, on the other hand ... think about it.

Bottom line is the growing economic gap is not good for the country, especially in the long run. Period.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:41 am

mvscal wrote: Not wanting to live in a refrigerator box under a bridge ought to be a pretty effective incentive, don't you think?

Absolutely.

As well as not wanting to be that guy holding a sign on the off-ramp of life that says "Anything Helps - God Bless".

For those guys it's too late. Much too late.

fix · Post by **fix** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:54 am

88 wrote:What is the "economic gap" you reference?

Don't know about down there but up around here we'd call it...

Lawyers charging $300 per hour to start for a typical divorce case
Factory worker making, if they're lucky, $16 dollars an hour to pay for that divorce...

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/283909

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:00 am

Otis wrote: Lawyers charging $300 per hour to start for a typical divorce case
Factory worker making, if they're lucky, $16 dollars an hour to pay for that divorce...

Don't marry a bitch you're gonna' divorce then. Simple concept.

fix · Post by **fix** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:13 am

War Wagon wrote:
Otis wrote: Lawyers charging $300 per hour to start for a typical divorce case
Factory worker making, if they're lucky, $16 dollars an hour to pay for that divorce...
Don't marry a bitch you're gonna' divorce then. Simple concept.

Right because it makes so much more sense for a "bitch" to stay married to that abusive husband so he can continue to beat the shit out of her..

:roll:

Never met or heard of a woman that changed 10 years into a marriage Whitey?
Would you want to stay married to a psycho for the next 30 years?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:41 am

"Otis", are you a bitch?

Let's turn the concept around then: Don't marry the bastard if you're going to wind up divorcing him.

fix · Post by **fix** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:20 am

War Wagon wrote:Let's turn the concept around then: Don't marry the bastard if you're going to wind up divorcing him.

Right because everyone can see 10 years into the future and know that the person they're marrying will never ever change, develop an alcohol or substance abuse problem, cheat on them or do something to make living with them unbearable.

But props to you for keeping with that concept simple Wags.. apparently it works for you.
A large number of people would say you're living in a dream world with that kind of thinking though..

fix · Post by **fix** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:38 am

88 wrote:
Otis wrote:
88 wrote:What is the "economic gap" you reference?
Don't know about down there but up around here we'd call it...

Lawyers charging $300 per hour to start for a typical divorce case
Factory worker making, if they're lucky, $16 dollars an hour to pay for that divorce...

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/283909
Those wages are misleading as hell.

First off, it takes a minimum of 7 years of college to get that lawyer parchment. If you figure an average $30K per year, that is an investment of $210,000 in an education, not to mention the loss of earnings during that 7 years. The factory worker is about 7 years of earned income (plus no investment) ahead of the lawyer when the lawyer starts his career.

Second, lawyers are, for the most part, self employed. They have overhead. They have rent, employees, malpractice insurance, legal research expenses etc. etc. etc. In the US, the self employed do not have a company to pay their benefits. They pay the full freight for health insurance, a retirement plan, and do not get any 1/2 contributions toward the typical payroll taxes like the factory worker does. Real income for lawyers in the US is about $100,000 per year. http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job ... yer/Salary

One dude invests virtually nothing in his future, and gets a $32K job, with health care benefits, some kind of retirement plan and other benefits. Probably worth about $45K in true dollars.

The other dude invests 7 years of his or her life to a career and mucho dinero and gets a job that pays about $100K after all the bites are taken out of his ass.

Not very unfair, if you ask me.

The defence rests councellor? ;)

Sorry but when you price your basic legal counsel at a rate of $300 to $400 per hour to start, even a middle managment job paying $50 000 to $65 000 can't afford to pay those kind of rates for an extended trial without going broke or losing everything even before the settlement.

88, I too own my own business. I have the same overhead you're talking about and on top of it, increased liability and equipment costs.... but there's no way in hell it necessitates charging that kind of money. That my friend is pure and simple greed.
Hey, I'm as greedy as the next guy is but sooner or later it costs everyone one way or another.
Just look at the price per gallon next time you fill your tanks up...

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:42 pm

Otis wrote:
War Wagon wrote:Let's turn the concept around then: Don't marry the bastard if you're going to wind up divorcing him.
Right because everyone can see 10 years into the future and know that the person they're marrying will never ever change, develop an alcohol or substance abuse problem, cheat on them or do something to make living with them unbearable.

But props to you for keeping with that concept simple Wags.. apparently it works for you.
A large number of people would say you're living in a dream world with that kind of thinking though..

Whitey believes no one should ever get divorced. Whitey’s kind of stupid that way. Gotta believe that a dork like Whitey married the first girl that let him get to first base. You know he’s gonna cling to that bitch till he dies. Even if she does make him watch American Idol, The Batchelor, etc.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:23 pm

88 wrote:First off, it takes a minimum of 7 years of college to get that lawyer parchment. If you figure an average $30K per year, that is an investment of $210,000 in an education, not to mention the loss of earnings during that 7 years. The factory worker is about 7 years of earned income (plus no investment) ahead of the lawyer when the lawyer starts his career.

I notice most lawyers close that gap REAL fucking quick.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:55 pm

Can't argue with that.

Unfortunately we have a rather large cadre of bleeding hearts running things who feel the need for us to pick up the ball for those who are unwilling to do so, and I mean in addition to those who are unable to.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:12 pm

Goober McTuber wrote: Whitey believes no one should ever get divorced.

That's right.

I also believe that women shouldn't have abortions and that homosexuals shouldn't get married or have civil unions, but they should contract some really nasty disease.

Whitey married the first girl that let him get to first base.

Not quite. There was once this chunky girl in Omaha who almost got her hooks in me.

You know he’s gonna cling to that bitch till he dies.

That's the plan and it's worked for 24+ years.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:42 pm

War Wagon wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote: Whitey believes no one should ever get divorced.
That's right.

I also believe that women shouldn't have abortions and that homosexuals shouldn't get married or have civil unions, but they should contract some really nasty disease.

Quite the little forgiving, accepting Christian you are.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:58 pm

mvscal wrote:
War Wagon wrote:I also believe ... that homosexuals shouldn't get married or have civil unions,
Why do you care?

If gays can live out in the open, where is the incentive for gays to join the clergy?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:59 pm

mvscal wrote:
War Wagon wrote:I also believe ... that homosexuals shouldn't get married or have civil unions,
Why do you care?

because everybody knows that 2 gay dudes getting "civil unioned" in Maryland has a profound and deep cutting effect on marriages in Missouri.....

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:07 am

War Wagon wrote: I also believe that women shouldn't have abortions and that homosexuals shouldn't get married or have civil unions, but they should contract some really nasty disease.

Dave, I know your dead set against welfare, so would you rather a kid grow up in abject poverty, starving or is it better never to have them born? Save the adoption rhetoric unless you'd fess up to bringing some black kids into WW doublewide.

As for the gay union thing, how exactlty does that affect you? I could really care less, as I see the issue for what it really was - A very successful ploy by my misguided GOP strategists to find an issue to fire up all the simple minded and make sure the Dems remained on the bench in 2004.

Everytime I start thinking your evolving due to your exposure to the articluate thought communicated here at T1B you turn around and dumb back down :D

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:34 am

War Wagon wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote: Whitey married the first girl that let him get to first base.

Not quite. There was once this chunky girl in Omaha who almost got her hooks in me.

So I was right. You wife is the only woman you've ever porked.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:45 am

mvscal wrote:
RadioFan wrote:I'll ask you what I asked 88: Honestly, do you think the income gap is a good thing?
I think it is an utterly meaningless statistic. Wealth is not a zero sum game. It never has been and never will be. I'm not jealous of Bill Gates nor do I have any pity for homeless bums. It means nothing to me and has no impact on my life or my prospects.

One thing I'm not interested in is subsidizing "incentives" for worthless spongers. If you won't get off your ass to put food on your own fucking table, you are beyond help and it would be best for everybody if you died in the gutter as quickly as possible. I just flat out don't give a fuck if you have a crappy job or no health insurance. That's your problem not mine.

Freedom necessarily includes failure. The only genuine incentive you can offer people is the freedom to suffer the consequences of their own failures.

Solid.

I actually pity some of the fuckstains who base their entire self-worth on the type of car they drive or the shoes they wear. Pretty comical, in the long run. But then again, most Americans can't find Brazil on a world map ...

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:54 am

Probably because you're both cunts and it reeks of self-presevation and selfishness.

For example, if you were the only quality shot in a rifle company, with a hoard of Zulus coming down the hill at you, it would be in your best interest to have everyone around you on an even keel.

That's an extremely short term and negative attitude if competition is transferring itself from a local level to an international one. Having a laugh at the guy who smokes too much pot and doesn't get himself a decent job is fine, till you realise that almost every possible job that exists in manufacture and service can be outsourced. Everyone then becomes expendable and it will effect you, directly. You'll soon find that it doesn't matter what time of the morning you get up, or how hard you work - you're fucked in the end.

I recommend being un-free.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:45 pm

there is a bright side to living in phibes' workers paradise.

he'd be one of the first ones dragged off and shot.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:25 pm

smackaholic wrote:there is a bright side to living in phibes' workers paradise.

he'd be one of the first ones dragged off and shot.

Phibes' "workers paradise" is almost as unrealistic as mvscal and 88's vision of a Malthusian utopia. Would it be OK if maybe we still allow private enterprise while providing subsidized health care and education to those who need it?

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:31 pm

88 wrote:mvscal and I believe that every man has the ability and obligation to find his own way, using his own wit and strength, and should be given the freedom to do it. And that with that freedom and obligation comes the opportunity to fail.

First off, you are one pathetic fuck. h= What? White flag waving sack of shit much?
Second, so you don’t use nor do you want public roads? The courts? Police protection? Fire protection? Property protection in the form of deeds and the like? Property protection in the form of patents and the like? You think you have the ability to fight your own fires and protect your Autistic brats from predators with out any help?

You are a sad lonely man tilting against windmills of self loathing if you even remotely think what you type, but then KKKcal is a sad lonely self loathing pile of crap too so you assholes should get along just fine.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:16 pm

BSmack wrote:
smackaholic wrote:there is a bright side to living in phibes' workers paradise.

he'd be one of the first ones dragged off and shot.
Phibes' "workers paradise" is almost as unrealistic as mvscal and 88's vision of a Malthusian utopia. Would it be OK if maybe we still allow private enterprise while providing subsidized health care and education to those who need it?

Are you insinuating we don't? Last I checked, we have a public school system all the way through HS. It is infact the libs who want to limit subsidies to union controlled schools. We also have quite a bit of subsidizing of the healthcare system. Asking that folks actually pay a decent share of it themselves is not saying all subsidies should cease.

So, who was it that is for limiting subsidies again?

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:08 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:
War Wagon wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote: Whitey married the first girl that let him get to first base.

Not quite. There was once this chunky girl in Omaha who almost got her hooks in me.

So I was right. You wife is the only woman you've ever porked.

You don't really find that surprising, do you? You have see his pic, right?

Don't make me repost his mug here. The holidays are a time for joy, not pain.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:03 pm

Moving Sale wrote: h= ?

I think I've solved it for you, poindexter.

Look how much bigger H is than the buildings. If you factor him in, he's got to be your reason why. He probably just pushed down on the tower with a finger nail, and no one noticed in all the smoke.

Your problem is solved, freak of nature.

You can go outside and tan now.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:54 pm

smackaholic wrote:
BSmack wrote:Phibes' "workers paradise" is almost as unrealistic as mvscal and 88's vision of a Malthusian utopia. Would it be OK if maybe we still allow private enterprise while providing subsidized health care and education to those who need it?
Are you insinuating we don't? Last I checked, we have a public school system all the way through HS. It is infact the libs who want to limit subsidies to union controlled schools. We also have quite a bit of subsidizing of the healthcare system. Asking that folks actually pay a decent share of it themselves is not saying all subsidies should cease.

So, who was it that is for limiting subsidies again?

We do a half ass job of providing health care and education. And if folks like mv and 88 had their way, there would be no subsidies for education or health care.

fix · Post by **fix** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:01 am

And healthcare insurance provider's aren't exactly known for their generousity when it comes to approving claims, or doing so in time...

I guess she just wasn't worth it to them... until they realised the bad publicity was going to cost them more money than what her operation might.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:14 am

AP sighting?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:38 am

88 wrote:
If homes buring down was a big problem, an insurance company would spring up complete with highly trained firefighting crews. The same is true for secondary roads and all the other things on your list.

That ^^^^ is my vote for the dumbest post of 2007.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:40 am

Right. And you've seen exactly HOW many fire departments started by insurance companies, and HOW many secondary roads built by ... I'm not sure if you were claiming that secondary roads would be built by insurance companies, or whatever, HOW many built by anybody but a government entity?

Jeezuz you really are waaaaaayyyy out there.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:47 am

88 wrote:
Mikey wrote:Right. And you've seen exactly HOW many fire departments started by insurance companies, and HOW many secondary roads built by ... I'm not sure if you were claiming that secondary roads would be built by insurance companies, or whatever, HOW many built by anybody but a government entity?

Jeezuz you really are waaaaaayyyy out there.
http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/200 ... 119026.txt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_highway

Shall we continue?

You might want to start by answering the question.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:50 am

mvscal wrote:
War Wagon wrote:I also believe ... that homosexuals shouldn't get married or have civil unions,
Why do you care?

Because it annoys me to see sick behavior and depravity being accorded any level of acceptance whatsoever, much less at a legal level , that's why.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:56 am

Goober McTuber wrote: So I was right. Your wife is the only woman you've ever porked.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

But no, you're not right.

My wife is the only woman that I've ever impregnated though.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:46 am

War Wagon wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote: So I was right. Your wife is the only woman you've ever porked.
You say that as if it were a bad thing.

But no, you're not right.

Inflatables, farm animals and pay-per-pokes do not count, so you're still at one.

My wife is the only woman that I've ever impregnated though.

I believe I just heard the entire species of homo sapiens sapiens heave a gigantic sigh of relief.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:45 pm

88 wrote:First, h=? got broken off in your ass, moron.

‘Cause you say so? Ha! If it is 3.66 like you say then you have v that is not accounted for. Laugh your way out of that you inbred fuck.

And anything not on this list can be handled more effectively by the private sector. If homes buring down was a big problem, an insurance company would spring up complete with highly trained firefighting crews. The same is true for secondary roads and all the other things on your list.

You might want to check Art. 4 sec. 3, and the 9th, 10th and 16th Ams. you fucking loon. Did you even GO to Law School? So now we know it’s LEGAL for the National, State and Local governments to ‘help out’ eh? Gawd you are a dumbass.

Back to your ‘one man walks alone’ bullshit. You are a paranoid lonely fuck who couldn’t work with your neighbors to piss a grass fire out no matter how much (or little) it was “buring”. We get it. Some of us don’t mind pooling our money for roads, police, fire and the like you do. Fine. Now take your bitter self loathing ass back to a Math book or a copy of the Constitution you ridiculously stupid hillbilly.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:14 pm

88 wrote:What question?

I said that if there was a need, then private industry would fill it if there was a profit to be made from doing it. This country is covered from sea to sea with redundant, wasteful, firefighting companies. The amount of fire equipment in Cleveland, Ohio is absolutely insane. Because government is filling this role to such an excess, there is no need and hence very little private fire fighting private industry.

But in areas where there is a need and an unfulfilled role (e.g., airport specialty fire-fighting and the protection of clusters of very valuable homes in extremely rural parts of the country), private industry has stepped in and filled that role.

As far as private roads are concerned, this is another situation where there has been very little opportunity for private industry due to the expansive reach of government. But private industry could do it. And would do it, if given the chance.

amen to that one.

The fire dept. mafia is alive and well in big cities where they pay lots of guys a whole lot of money to mostly hang out and come up with new chili recipes.

In the small towns we have volunteer departments and you know what, those fukkers are good. I will bet you that I get a quicker response than I would if I had a full paid department. Why? Because those fukkers are to your house in their pickups with their annoying blue lights long before some big old truck gets there. And they carry much of their own gear.

A year or two ago, the FD mafia in local cities was pissed that their own guys went home to the burbs where they belonged to the local VFD. them fukkers actually tried to make it illegal for their employees to do volunteer work in their towns. I guess they figured they'd up their enrollment when local towns were forced to hire full timers.

Somebody 'splain to me why the entire country, with possibly a few exceptions, couldn't be run by VFDs? If we can do it out in the sticks, it could be done in cities.....easier.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:51 pm

smackaholic wrote: Somebody 'splain to me why the entire country, with possibly a few exceptions, couldn't be run by VFDs? If we can do it out in the sticks, it could be done in cities.....easier.

Sure, and while were at it, let's make all police and ambulance/paramedic services all volunteer as well since they're all tied together... um, maybe not.

Sorry, but without exception, I don't think an all VFD would work very well in any city with a population of over 50,000 or so. Too much logistics and infrastructure required.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:15 pm

VFDs are not "private industry", which is what 88 is pushing. Are they out there to make a profit? I don't think so. The private fire company he linked up was hired by an insurance company to protect multi-million dollar homes. It supplements the local FD only to protect the company's most valuable assests. If you think any insurance company is going to pay a provate FD to protect all the homes it covers you're fucking nuts. It would definitely not benefit the bottom line. They get protection for free now.

And his contention that private companies should build all of the "secondary roads" is patently ridiculous. Yes there are some privately owned and maintained toll roads but these, for the most part, are not "secondary roads" - at least around here. They are major highways. Can you imagine having to pay somebody every time you go out on a "secondary road" (def: "A road supplementing a main road, usually wide enough and suitable for two-way all-weather traffic at moderate or slow speeds.
").

Private industry will only go where there is a sure profit to be made. They don't give a shit whether there's a "need" or not.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:18 pm

War Wagon wrote:
smackaholic wrote: Somebody 'splain to me why the entire country, with possibly a few exceptions, couldn't be run by VFDs? If we can do it out in the sticks, it could be done in cities.....easier.
Sure, and while were at it, let's make all police and ambulance/paramedic services all volunteer as well since they're all tied together... um, maybe not.

Sorry, but without exception, I don't think an all VFD would work very well in any city with a population of over 50,000 or so. Too much logistics and infrastructure required.

bullshit.

not saying that VFDs could get by with zero fulltime employees, but, they could get by with a whole lot less than they do.

why should a more densely populated city neccesarily have fulltimers? well, i could think of one case. some cities with their "diverse" populations would need fulltimers because the worthless shitbag residents sure couldn't be relied upon.