T1B

MuchoBulls wrote:The climb back is going to be much tougher than anyone thought, including Tiger. That is a course that he absolutely destroys.

You have no clue what Tiger is thinking. So spare us that bullshit.

BSmack wrote:

MuchoBulls wrote:The climb back is going to be much tougher than anyone thought, including Tiger. That is a course that he absolutely destroys.

You have no clue what Tiger is thinking. So spare us that bullshit.

He looked pretty beaten down addressing the press yesterday.

"It's been a long year."

Goober McTuber wrote:He looked pretty beaten down addressing the press yesterday. "It's been a long year."

I'm sure it is frustrating for him. But it is also possible that he knew after two long layoffs, his family life imploding, still getting used to a new knee and being the bulls eye of every tabloid in the universe that maybe he wouldn't just bounce back right away. A man who finishes a marathon may look like hell, but that doesn't mean he thought the race would be easy.

So what's your prediction on when Tiger will be back on top of the golf world? A month? A year? Five years? Senior tour?

Hopefully never.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:So what's your prediction on when Tiger will be back on top of the golf world? A month? A year? Five years? Senior tour?

I'd be pretty damn surprised if he's not contending at all 4 majors next year. His personal life should (and I emphasize SHOULD) be old news, the divorce should be finalized and this new swing coach he's on the verge of hiring should be a huge help. IMO, the best thing he can do is shut it down in the US after the PGA regardless of how he plays and focus every bit of his still very substantial resources on getting his game and head right. Tiger still has 10 years of prime major winning years left in his career, and it is possible he could be contending in majors into his 50s. I'd still rate him even money or better to run down Jack.

BSmack wrote:

MuchoBulls wrote:The climb back is going to be much tougher than anyone thought, including Tiger. That is a course that he absolutely destroys.

You have no clue what Tiger is thinking. So spare us that bullshit.

He's obviously not thinking as much about golf as he should and last week was evident of that. Even you should be able to see that.

MuchoBulls wrote:

BSmack wrote:

MuchoBulls wrote:The climb back is going to be much tougher than anyone thought, including Tiger. That is a course that he absolutely destroys.

You have no clue what Tiger is thinking. So spare us that bullshit.

He's obviously not thinking as much about golf as he should and last week was evident of that. Even you should be able to see that.

I guess that must also explain Phil's record in the Open Championship. Not to mention 18th holes of US Opens.

LTS TRN 2 wrote:

Mr T wrote:

Jsc810 wrote:But I do understand a bit about sports, having played lacrosse at TCU, and also having coached LSU's lacrosse team. The mental part of the game is huge, probably especially for golf.

Tiger was living 10+ different lives and winning big tournaments.

I think Tiger just having to focus on one life and golf is pretty fucking scary.

I think the only thing that will kill tiger is if everyone finds out he has been juicing.

You've missed it. He was so successful because of his ability to avoid the usual constrictions of our distorted Western culture--you know, the monogamous robotic post -Victorian Ozzie and Harriet model of artificial consumer consciousness. Unfortunately, like Magic Johnson's when he returned--seemingly the same player--Tiger's game will suffer from the lack of major tantric energy to which he'd been accustomed.

Uh..scoreboard....do I get paid? :wink:

I (the Golf Forum moderator) was just kinda curious if any of you newfound "golf experts" (the ones who became an authority on PGA Golf when Tiger appeared in the National Enquirer) could answer a question --

Who is #1 in the world rankings right now?

Oh, that's right.

Dinsdale wrote:you newfound "golf experts" (the ones who became an authority on PGA Golf when Tiger appeared in the National Enquirer)

Since you probably don't know, the last Major of the year is being played right now.

And who is leading right now (tied)?

I'll give you one guess... and I'll give you a hint -- it's a guy who has tremendous swagger right now. The "you're all playing for 2nd" look has returned.

Jsc810 wrote:New York Times: has any great athlete, at the top of any sport, ever had his or her game blown to smithereens so fast — not just from age, not just from injury, but pretty obviously from some deeper miasma of psyche and soma.

Hilarious stuff. Especially when you consider that Tiger is still holding down the #1 spot in the world rankings and has finished in the top 5 of two out of the three majors he has played in.

BSmack wrote:I guess that must also explain Phil's record in the Open Championship. Not to mention 18th holes of US Opens.

Way to deflect it off of Tiger. We all know of Phil's blunders at the U.S. Open and that had more to do with overthinking than anything else.

Phil won't win and Open Championships since his game is not suited for it.

Dinsdale wrote:Since you probably don't know, the last Major of the year is being played right now.

And who is leading right now (tied)?

I'll give you one guess... and I'll give you a hint -- it's a guy who has tremendous swagger right now. The "you're all playing for 2nd" look has returned.

Ben Crane?

MuchoBulls wrote:Way to deflect it off of Tiger. We all know of Phil's blunders at the U.S. Open and that had more to do with overthinking than anything else. Phil won't win and Open Championships since his game is not suited for it.

The truly great players will more often than not at least contend in the Open Championship on a regular basis. FIGJAM goes to the Open Championship and looks like a a Hooters Tour slappy almost every year.

Haven't heard FIGJAM tossed Phildo's way in a while.

Always good for a chuckle.

To suggest Tiger has lost it because of his shit performance this year is simply stupid.

Like BSmack mentioned, two top 5s in the majors this season ain't too shabby when he obviouslyhasn't put 4 good rounds together all year long. Tiger will beat Jack's record and probably has one more dominent year in him where he'll take 3 of 4 majors home. He's too damn good.

^^^ No shit. Dude is just an awful human being and people here are still lining up to suck his dick.

Screw_Michigan wrote:^^^ No shit. Dude is just an awful human being and people here are still lining up to suck his dick.

There are a lot of entertainers that are awful people. Tiger Woods has nothing on John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr when it comes to fucking their way around the world. And 3 of those 4 were married when they were Beatles. Does that mean I should dump my Beatles collection? I'm just recognizing that Tiger Woods is the most supremely talented golfer to ever walk the face of the earth.

Fuck You.....

BSmack wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:^^^ No shit. Dude is just an awful human being and people here are still lining up to suck his dick.

There are a lot of entertainers that are awful people. Tiger Woods has nothing on John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr when it comes to fucking their way around the world. And 3 of those 4 were married when they were Beatles. Does that mean I should dump my Beatles collection? I'm just recognizing that Tiger Woods is the most supremely talented golfer to ever walk the face of the earth.

B, I could care less about the marital shit. I'm talking about how he treats people in general. Exhibit A: his employment of Steve Williams.

Screwey's got it right for a change.

It ain't about him fukking around on the OL. It's about him showing a pattern of being a long time all around self centered POS and a fukking spoiled brat.

As for him being the most talented golfer in history? That's a pretty big claim with no real way to prove/disprove it? How would nicklaus have faired had he come along 40 years later? No one can say for sure other than to say that it would have been fun to watch.

Screw_Michigan wrote:B, I could care less about the marital shit. I'm talking about how he treats people in general. Exhibit A: his employment of Steve Williams.

You mean the guy who is very forward about telling douchebags who can't leave their cell phones at home where to go? What the hell does that have to do with anything? He's a caddy. A caddy's job is to protect his player. Steve Williams does that job as well as any person alive.

smackaholic wrote:Screwey's got it right for a change. It ain't about him fukking around on the OL. It's about him showing a pattern of being a long time all around self centered POS and a fukking spoiled brat.

Even if you are right, it doesn't change my evaluation of his talent.

As for him being the most talented golfer in history? That's a pretty big claim with no real way to prove/disprove it? How would nicklaus have faired had he come along 40 years later? No one can say for sure other than to say that it would have been fun to watch.

Nicklaus didn't come around 40 years later. He came around in 1960 and rode his natural talent to 73 wins and 18 majors. Tiger will run Jack down in wins within the next year. He'll also run down Jack's 18 majors. And he will have done so against fields that are infinitely deeper than anything Nicklaus faced in the 60s and 70s.

For example, when Jack turned pro, there was serious consideration given to the possibility that he might stay an amateur and go into the insurance business, using his fame as 2 time US Amateur champ and Ohio State golf legend to win him a healthy client base of Buckeye alums and golf fans. When Tiger turned pro, not a soul expected anything different. ALL of the top amateur talent turns pro now.

Also, the modern game has a strong international flavor that was largely missing from the PGA Tour in the 60s and 70s. Oh sure, there was the occasional international standout. But they were few and far between. Now most of the elite international talent carries dual PGA and European Tour cards.

Furthermore, just look at some of the shit Tiger has done. He's the only golfer to hold all 4 professional majors at the same time. He tied Hogan by winning 3 in one year. He's already won 71 Tour Events, been voted player of the year 10 times, won 16 WGC events, OBLITERATED Nelson's cut streak record, shares the modern record for most wins in a season with Vijay at 9...

Is it starting to sink in? And he's only 34. He has at least 11 more season where he will be a peak player. When he's done, everyone else will pale in comparison.

Who the fuck cares?

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were mod of the golf forum.

BSmack wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:B, I could care less about the marital shit. I'm talking about how he treats people in general. Exhibit A: his employment of Steve Williams.

You mean the guy who is very forward about telling douchebags who can't leave their cell phones at home where to go? What the hell does that have to do with anything? He's a caddy. A caddy's job is to protect his player. Steve Williams does that job as well as any person alive.

Sorry, tard. Welcome to real life. Sorry you and Tiger had to figure it out the hard way.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

BSmack wrote:You mean the guy who is very forward about telling douchebags who can't leave their cell phones at home where to go? What the hell does that have to do with anything? He's a caddy. A caddy's job is to protect his player. Steve Williams does that job as well as any person alive.

Sorry, tard. Welcome to real life. Sorry you and Tiger had to figure it out the hard way.

WTF are you babbling about now? Jizz fumes got you high?

BSmack wrote:

smackaholic wrote:Screwey's got it right for a change. It ain't about him fukking around on the OL. It's about him showing a pattern of being a long time all around self centered POS and a fukking spoiled brat.

Even if you are right, it doesn't change my evaluation of his talent.

As for him being the most talented golfer in history? That's a pretty big claim with no real way to prove/disprove it? How would nicklaus have faired had he come along 40 years later? No one can say for sure other than to say that it would have been fun to watch.

Nicklaus didn't come around 40 years later. He came around in 1960 and rode his natural talent to 73 wins and 18 majors. Tiger will run Jack down in wins within the next year. He'll also run down Jack's 18 majors. And he will have done so against fields that are infinitely deeper than anything Nicklaus faced in the 60s and 70s.

For example, when Jack turned pro, there was serious consideration given to the possibility that he might stay an amateur and go into the insurance business, using his fame as 2 time US Amateur champ and Ohio State golf legend to win him a healthy client base of Buckeye alums and golf fans. When Tiger turned pro, not a soul expected anything different. ALL of the top amateur talent turns pro now.

Also, the modern game has a strong international flavor that was largely missing from the PGA Tour in the 60s and 70s. Oh sure, there was the occasional international standout. But they were few and far between. Now most of the elite international talent carries dual PGA and European Tour cards.

Furthermore, just look at some of the shit Tiger has done. He's the only golfer to hold all 4 professional majors at the same time. He tied Hogan by winning 3 in one year. He's already won 71 Tour Events, been voted player of the year 10 times, won 16 WGC events, OBLITERATED Nelson's cut streak record, shares the modern record for most wins in a season with Vijay at 9...

Is it starting to sink in? And he's only 34. He has at least 11 more season where he will be a peak player. When he's done, everyone else will pale in comparison.

So all you have proven is there is an assload of money in the game today. This assload of money compels a lot more golfers to try to make a living at it. This doesn't mean that the amateurs that competed back then were any less talented or less dedicated. Maybe you heard of that bobby jones fella. Never bothered with turning pro, but was refuted to be a pretty fair golfer.

There is one way to figure out who's better. Put them head to head. My time machine is on the fritz, so that ain't likely to happen.

smackaholic wrote:

BSmack wrote:

smackaholic wrote:Screwey's got it right for a change. It ain't about him fukking around on the OL. It's about him showing a pattern of being a long time all around self centered POS and a fukking spoiled brat.

Even if you are right, it doesn't change my evaluation of his talent.

As for him being the most talented golfer in history? That's a pretty big claim with no real way to prove/disprove it? How would nicklaus have faired had he come along 40 years later? No one can say for sure other than to say that it would have been fun to watch.

Nicklaus didn't come around 40 years later. He came around in 1960 and rode his natural talent to 73 wins and 18 majors. Tiger will run Jack down in wins within the next year. He'll also run down Jack's 18 majors. And he will have done so against fields that are infinitely deeper than anything Nicklaus faced in the 60s and 70s.

For example, when Jack turned pro, there was serious consideration given to the possibility that he might stay an amateur and go into the insurance business, using his fame as 2 time US Amateur champ and Ohio State golf legend to win him a healthy client base of Buckeye alums and golf fans. When Tiger turned pro, not a soul expected anything different. ALL of the top amateur talent turns pro now.

Also, the modern game has a strong international flavor that was largely missing from the PGA Tour in the 60s and 70s. Oh sure, there was the occasional international standout. But they were few and far between. Now most of the elite international talent carries dual PGA and European Tour cards.

Furthermore, just look at some of the shit Tiger has done. He's the only golfer to hold all 4 professional majors at the same time. He tied Hogan by winning 3 in one year. He's already won 71 Tour Events, been voted player of the year 10 times, won 16 WGC events, OBLITERATED Nelson's cut streak record, shares the modern record for most wins in a season with Vijay at 9...

Is it starting to sink in? And he's only 34. He has at least 11 more season where he will be a peak player. When he's done, everyone else will pale in comparison.

So all you have proven is there is an assload of money in the game today. This assload of money compels a lot more golfers to try to make a living at it.

And it also means the fields are WAY deeper than the old days. Which makes what Tiger has done against them all the more impressive.

This doesn't mean that the amateurs that competed back then were any less talented or less dedicated. Maybe you heard of that bobby jones fella. Never bothered with turning pro, but was refuted to be a pretty fair golfer.

Actually, the amateurs that competed in the US Open and Open Chamionships of the day routinely got slaughtered by the professionals. Bobby Jones and Francis Ouimet are the exceptions, not the rule.

As for Jones, he was a monumental talent that did not make the absolute most of that talent because he had other endeavors that interested him more. One cannot say with certainty if Jones would or would not have won 18 majors as a professional. But we do know that the few tournaments he did play in exacted a terrible physical and mental toll. I personally don't think Jones could have withstood the grind of a full tour schedule.

There is one way to figure out who's better. Put them head to head. My time machine is on the fritz, so that ain't likely to happen.

Or we can look at what each has done and use our own knowledge of the game to come to a conclusion. You know, like Nicklaus and Palmer did years ago when they said that Tiger would break all their records.

Jsc810 wrote:

BSmack wrote:Or we can look at what each has done and use our own knowledge of the game to come to a conclusion. You know, like Nicklaus and Palmer did years ago when they said that Tiger would break all their records.

Did Nicklaus and Palmer say that before or after Tiger's whores became public?

Is your inability to read for content genetic or a result of diet?

BSmack wrote:WTF are you babbling about now? Jizz fumes got you high?

Sorry dude. Caddies have absolutely no business going into galleries for any reason other than to find a ball. If Tiger has a problem with security at events not preventing people from sneaking cameras and phones into courses, that's on the Tour. He should leverage his assholeness on them to prevent that from happening.

B just continues to make my point. He considers Tiger the greatest golfer to ever live, so he's on his knees with his mouth agape, waiting for his crank.

I don't think anyone can legitimately argue about Tiger being the most talented golfer ever.....he is. I also don't think anyone can dispute that he acts like a spoiled rotten brat...on and off the course. Comparisons to Nicklaus are inevitable due to Tiger chasing Jack's record for majors but it's impossible to compare athletes of different eras with any degree of accuracy....can't be done. Tiger has been the MJ of the PGA Tour since he came on the scene, while Nicklaus was the Willie Mays of golf during his career. Nicklaus has 18 majors and is the leader in the clubhouse. Tiger is trailing but hasn't finished his round. Will he surpass Nicklaus? He should, and I think he will do it in the next 3-4 years. He has to get his head on straight and get all of his personal shit behind him first.

The high tech equipment used by current golfers also creates an unlevel playing field, imo, when trying to make comparisons between eras. Sure, some of the tour sites have lengthened their courses in an attempt to Tiger-proof them but, imo, the equipment outweighs any yardage added to the course. Keep in mind that a 59 year old Tom Watson nearly won the British Open last year and, while he obviously still has some game left in his old body, he wouldn't be able to compete with the younger studs without the newer equipment. The clubs being used now would be like putting aluminum bats in the hands of major league baseball players and comparing their records with players of the wood bat era. Can't be done.....at least not with any intellectual honesty.

Jsc810 wrote:Sorry. Next time I make a point, I'll try to make it easier for you to follow along. Of course I knew it was before all the whore stuff became public, dipshit.

See if you can find where Nicklaus and Palmer have said that since then. Take your time.

Then why did you have to ask? Did you think I would feel sorry for you if you acted like a moron? No. You posted because what you know of golf could be balanced on top of my ball mark repair tool.

How about you find it? You're the one attempting to refute my argument by asserting a negative. And while you're at it, go drown yourself in a oil slick.

Mace wrote:
Can't be done.....at least not with any intellectual honesty.

I laffed when I saw this term. Since this seems to be a B Monica versus the rest thread, the term " intellectual honesty" really brings it home, and you have to ask yourself here...What the fuck does honesty have to do with this? It is sports / politics after all !

Tiger is a great golfer , never mind he is a lying cheating piece of arrogant shit in his personal life. ( Fucking multiple ho's, etc)

Bill Clinton was a great president, even though he was (is) a lying cheating piece of arrogant shit in his personal life. (Getting his dick sucked in the Oval Office, etc)

The lying Chimp for Change promised a lot and has delivered nothing outside of more problems for the majority of the country, and he is not even close to "honest"

Some myopian's will worship their hero's at all costs, and since they have no conception of intellectual honesty", it then becomes a moot point.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

BSmack wrote:WTF are you babbling about now? Jizz fumes got you high?

Sorry dude. Caddies have absolutely no business going into galleries for any reason other than to find a ball. If Tiger has a problem with security at events not preventing people from sneaking cameras and phones into courses, that's on the Tour. He should leverage his assholeness on them to prevent that from happening.

So he should fire the caddie who has carried his bag to 13 majors because said caddie is a tad over protective of his man? Give me a fucking break. If Tiger fired Steve Williams he would be on another top 50 or better bag within the week. And if the Tour has a problem with Williams, then they can administer discipline.

Mace wrote:I don't think anyone can legitimately argue about Tiger being the most talented golfer ever.....he is. I also don't think anyone can dispute that he acts like a spoiled rotten brat...on and off the course. Comparisons to Nicklaus are inevitable due to Tiger chasing Jack's record for majors but it's impossible to compare athletes of different eras with any degree of accuracy....can't be done. Tiger has been the MJ of the PGA Tour since he came on the scene, while Nicklaus was the Willie Mays of golf during his career. Nicklaus has 18 majors and is the leader in the clubhouse. Tiger is trailing but hasn't finished his round. Will he surpass Nicklaus? He should, and I think he will do it in the next 3-4 years. He has to get his head on straight and get all of his personal shit behind him first.

The high tech equipment used by current golfers also creates an unlevel playing field, imo, when trying to make comparisons between eras. Sure, some of the tour sites have lengthened their courses in an attempt to Tiger-proof them but, imo, the equipment outweighs any yardage added to the course. Keep in mind that a 59 year old Tom Watson nearly won the British Open last year and, while he obviously still has some game left in his old body, he wouldn't be able to compete with the younger studs without the newer equipment. The clubs being used now would be like putting aluminum bats in the hands of major league baseball players and comparing their records with players of the wood bat era. Can't be done.....at least not with any intellectual honesty.

Finally someone with a clue about the game posting. I agree with almost everything you're saying save the reason for older golfers competing with the young guys. I think the real reason for older golfers competing at the highest levels is more conditioning and less equipment. You never saw golfers as a collective group working out the way they do now. Consequently, golfers are more flexible and retain their strength later in life. IMO, that means a hell of a lot more than an extra 40 yards that the course has been lengthened to negate anyway.

I agree that conditioning is extremely important but, imo, they are not equally important. A well conditioned Tom Watson hitting persimmon woods in the British Open does not tie for the lead and lose in a playoff.....he's headed home after Friday's round. IMO, Watson lost the playoff because his body and mind wore out.

Mace wrote:I agree that conditioning is extremely important but, imo, they are not equally important. A well conditioned Tom Watson hitting persimmon woods in the British Open does not tie for the lead and lose in a playoff.....he's headed home after Friday's round. IMO, Watson lost the playoff because his body and mind wore out.

Tom Watson never hit to a 519 yard par 5 with a persimmon 3 wood. You have to wonder what would happen with one of these young guns hitting a persimmon wood. With the kind of club speed they generate and the sweet spot the size of a dime, would they ever be able to adapt? I'd love to see one tournament a year where the players have to use old technology for a round or two. It would have to be a silly season event. But it would still be cool to watch.

Edit: Ooops, meant to say Par 4.

BSmack wrote:

Mace wrote:I agree that conditioning is extremely important but, imo, they are not equally important. A well conditioned Tom Watson hitting persimmon woods in the British Open does not tie for the lead and lose in a playoff.....he's headed home after Friday's round. IMO, Watson lost the playoff because his body and mind wore out.

Tom Watson never hit to a 519 yard par 5 with a persimmon 3 wood. You have to wonder what would happen with one of these young guns hitting a persimmon wood. With the kind of club speed they generate and the sweet spot the size of a dime, would they ever be able to adapt? I'd love to see one tournament a year where the players have to use old technology for a round or two. It would have to be a silly season event. But it would still be cool to watch.

I think it would be interesting to see them do it and might shed a little light as to whether today's players are that much better, if at all. Different sport but same principle, is the reaction I get when I break out the wood baseball bats for batting practice. Most of the kids have never used wood bats but understand that, if they can find the sweet spot on the Louisville Slugger, then they can sure as hell find the forgiving sweet spot on the Easton/DeMarini aluminum bats.